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Thread: Has an electrical engineer dev HF AMP with new mosfet MRFE6VP61K25h?

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  1. #1

    Question Has an electrical engineer dev HF AMP with new mosfet MRFE6VP61K25h?

    Hi Folks:
    Yes, I was curious if any Electrical Engineer has a HF amplifier circuit board and parts for the new MRFE6VP61K25h mosfet? If so I would like to have a copy of the circuit board and a list of parts. IF not, I would like to have an electrical engineer design one with two of these mosfets and also with one mosfet. Also, consider, operating frequenices of 160-6meters. With two mosfet's one can turn the power down to max operating power acc/w FCC rules and reg's and loaf along.
    Contact me:
    w7eet@arrl.net
    Thank you,
    Rich
    When I got back from overseas I transferred to Aviation Electronics and went to School at NAS Millington, TN. Then transferred to Yuma, AZ. and stationed with the VMFAT-101 squardan worked on F4J radar Package. When I got out of the service in 78 I worked for private industry until my Retirement.

  2. #2

    Post

    I would like to have a copy of the circuit board and a list of parts.
    Rich -

    Evaluation baords (with parts lists) are available directly from these RF device manufacturers (Freescale - TX / AZ; NXP - Japan) --
    for the experienced DIY Builder.

    IF you are looking for a "Heathkit style" kit of parts and assembly instructions -- NO, I have not seen such a kit.
    Given the current global economic conditions (prospective buyers) -- I do not expect to see such a kit in the near future.

    IF not, I would like to have an electrical engineer design one with two of these mosfets and also with one MOSFET.
    Your request analogy is: Ford Motors has a new crate V-8 motor with great horsepower and you desires someone to build a specific car (racing/NASCAR or pleasure).
    You are looking for a Chip Foose ... but are unsure how much that would cost.


    There are qualified RF professionals who could build to a spec, with sufficent $$$ (Tom, W8JI; Paul, WD7S; etc.) -- there are
    also a large number of "want-a-bees" builders -- who will gladly take your money -- but you would likely never receive what you desired.

    There are also some current mfg. (Elecraft, Alpha, etc.) that may entertain your offer -- but that investment (> $75,000) will be more than you likely desire to make.
    ==

    BTW, the BIGGEST issue with an amplifier build of this size (RF wattage output) is proper Thermal handling / dissipation.
    Electrical Engineers are not always well versed in proper Thermodynamics / Heatsink designs. :-)
    Commercial products are usually produced by a TEAM of experienced engineers (mechanical, electrical, thermal) from various disciplines for optimal design.

    w9gb
    Last edited by W9GB; 10-10-2011 at 05:37 PM.
    Nullius in verba

  3. #3

    Default

    Reply to w9gb:
    Freescale has a pc board only for VHF test models and in fact someone has already built one for VHF amplifier with boards and parts. However, this will not perform on HF. I did not ask for a electrical engineer to rebuild Ford company. I am more than wiser than to let some scammer to take my money. There are a numerous of Electrical engineers that are ham radio operators out there that has cad on their computers to design a HF amp for this particular mosfet. Ham radio is for good will not to profit by other ham radio operators. So, what have I got in mind is to have an challange to create something to pass onto other hamradio operators to build from scratch and create one's own heathkit. Also, learn while creating this HF RF Amplifier. I am no newbe to Electronics since my field is Radar and aviation Electronic repair.
    Rich/W7EET
    When I got back from overseas I transferred to Aviation Electronics and went to School at NAS Millington, TN. Then transferred to Yuma, AZ. and stationed with the VMFAT-101 squardan worked on F4J radar Package. When I got out of the service in 78 I worked for private industry until my Retirement.

  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by W7EET View Post
    Hi Folks:
    Yes, I was curious if any Electrical Engineer has a HF amplifier circuit board and parts for the new MRFE6VP61K25h mosfet? If so I would like to have a copy of the circuit board and a list of parts. IF not, I would like to have an electrical engineer design one with two of these mosfets and also with one mosfet. Also, consider, operating frequenices of 160-6meters. With two mosfet's one can turn the power down to max operating power acc/w FCC rules and reg's and loaf along.
    Contact me:
    w7eet@arrl.net
    Thank you,
    Rich
    I wish Freescale would tone down their rhetoric.

    The FET on U-tube is in pulse service. That basically is a 600 watt SSB FET.

    If you look at the actual data sheet, it slides into gain compression at 600-700 watts at 85 degrees C on the case. Their big power ratings come from having the case at -30C.

    If you use one FET and can manage to get the heat out, you have the electrical equal of an ALS-600 in every way, including SWR tolerance.

    Two FET's, if you can get the heat out, will provide about 1200 watts or so with proper cooling.

    The 65:1 VSWR and 1200 watts come from pulse duty service, and probably with a current limited supply.

    That FET is the electrical equal of (4) MRF150 except all the heat is in one place.

    73 Tom

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by W7EET View Post
    Hi Folks:
    Yes, I was curious if any Electrical Engineer has a HF amplifier circuit board and parts for the new MRFE6VP61K25h mosfet? If so I would like to have a copy of the circuit board and a list of parts. IF not, I would like to have an electrical engineer design one with two of these mosfets and also with one mosfet. Also, consider, operating frequenices of 160-6meters. With two mosfet's one can turn the power down to max operating power acc/w FCC rules and reg's and loaf along.
    Contact me:
    w7eet@arrl.net
    Thank you,
    Rich
    I wish Freescale would tone down their rhetoric.

    The FET on U-tube is in 20% duty cycle 100uS pulse service. That basically is a 600 watt SSB FET.

    If you look at the actual data sheet, it slides into gain compression at 600-700 watts at 85 degrees C on the case. Their big power ratings come from having the FET case at -30C and using low duty cycle pulse service. I designed a medical device that ran two MRF 150's at 1200 watts pulse serve, and would handle near-infinite SWR (open or shorted load with a very short feedline attached). There is no magic to 1200 watts pulse.

    If you use one FET and can manage to get the heat out, you have the electrical equal of an ALS-600 in every way, including SWR tolerance.

    Two FET's, if you can get the heat out, will provide about 1200 watts or so if you can supply enough cooling.

    The 65:1 VSWR and 1200 watts they show on the video comes from pulse duty service, and probably with a current limited supply.

    That FET is the electrical equal of (4) MRF150 except all the heat is in one place.

    73 Tom
    Last edited by W8JI; 10-10-2011 at 07:55 PM.

  6. #6

    Post

    So, what have I got in mind is to have an challenge to create something to pass onto other hamradio operators to build from scratch and create one's own heathkit.
    Also, learn while creating this HF RF Amplifier.
    Rich -

    Understood. BTW, Elecraft is the company that is trying to fill the void left by Heathkit's departure --
    their designs have been better than many of the kits produced at Benton Harbor.
    The Elecraft KPA-500 is an impressive amplifier design .. in a small package .. and at a price point (and quality level) that should discourage Eastern Asian copies.

    As Tom W8JI noted, the YouTube video has likely created the wrong impression (rhetoric) of Freescale's (and NXP's) newer RF devices.

    There are a numerous of Electrical engineers that are ham radio operators out there that have CAD on their computers
    to design a HF amp for this particular MOSFET.
    Rich -

    You seemed to miss my point.
    Designing a carrier PC board is just ONE STEP of the overall design toward the final product.

    My concern (for any final design) continues to be proper cooling -- now you have the equivalent of 4 MRF 150 RF devices --
    in a concentrated surface area (footprint) -- not dispersed at 4 points of heat generation -- that will produce significant heat (wasted energy of conversion process).
    The next question is DC power requirements and then the overall footprint of the final product design.

    From my perspective, we are still missing the point Steve Jobs (sk) had been making for the past 30 years,
    you have to LOOK at the entire system or device that you are creating and its usability (ease of use, on aspect) for the end user.


    Some amateurs are experimenting (and creating initial DIY builds) with these new devices (Freescale or NXP) -- BUT I have not
    seen any openly available designs/kits from these efforts -- YET.
    ==
    While MFJ has an assembled solid-state unit in this RF output class,
    Elecraft has yet to produce/release a 1.0 - 1.5 kW RF output amplifier ........ kit or assembled.

    A competition is always possible -- what is the end point reward for the build ?

    w9gb
    Last edited by W9GB; 10-10-2011 at 08:20 PM.
    Nullius in verba

  7. #7

    Default

    I have been a ham for 40 years and have built many ham related equipment. From vaccum tubes to solid state. This newer type devices is a another ball park. The main thing is the board with the mosfet on it that requires the most attention for an engineer design. This I can not do or make. The rest of the circuity I can manage to finish. Like the cooling heat sinks, safety circuits, filters, power supply and so on. I called freescale and ask them about the mosfet and highly questioned them on the power out. They told me this mosfet will cw at 1200 watts. For how long ??? So this will be a experimental circuit and there is someone already has a 1200 watt VHF 2 meter amplifier in use. Using only one mosfet. When I grew up, this is one of the many things as a hobby is to make and build one's own equipment. So, is this old school training,,,yes! and I enjoy it very much.
    Rich/W7EET
    When I got back from overseas I transferred to Aviation Electronics and went to School at NAS Millington, TN. Then transferred to Yuma, AZ. and stationed with the VMFAT-101 squardan worked on F4J radar Package. When I got out of the service in 78 I worked for private industry until my Retirement.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by W7EET View Post
    I have been a ham for 40 years and have built many ham related equipment. From vaccum tubes to solid state. This newer type devices is a another ball park. The main thing is the board with the mosfet on it that requires the most attention for an engineer design.
    I'm sure you know the board wouldn't have the MOSFET on it, at all. The FET would mount directly to the heat sink; the board would "surround" the FET with additional circuitry and provide the I-O paths and DC current paths.

    Since the device in question is dissipating 657.4W/square inch (assuming the ~75% efficiency claimed) the HS would need to be extremely good, as well as fan cooled, unless it was in a refrigeration system (maybe possible).

    If I could get a couple of devices for free I might try it; but to risk degrading them to carbon during trials and having to pay for them would be a bit sad.
    What if soy milk is just regular milk introducing itself in Spanish?

  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WB2WIK View Post
    I'm sure you know the board wouldn't have the MOSFET on it, at all. The FET would mount directly to the heat sink; the board would "surround" the FET with additional circuitry and provide the I-O paths and DC current paths.

    Since the device in question is dissipating 657.4W/square inch (assuming the ~75% efficiency claimed) the HS would need to be extremely good, as well as fan cooled, unless it was in a refrigeration system (maybe possible).

    If I could get a couple of devices for free I might try it; but to risk degrading them to carbon during trials and having to pay for them would be a bit sad.
    That amplifier is a really good candidate for ether water or vapor phase cooling.
    For the few percent lower thermal resistance you would pick up it might be worth it to silver plate the copper heat spreader.
    Regardless one is going to spend as much on the cooling system as they are going to spend on FETs.
    When it's time, and it may be sooner than you think.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AF6LJ View Post
    That amplifier is a really good candidate for ether water or vapor phase cooling.
    For the few percent lower thermal resistance you would pick up it might be worth it to silver plate the copper heat spreader.
    Regardless one is going to spend as much on the cooling system as they are going to spend on FETs.
    Yep. Semiconductors can handle a lot of power as long as we keep the material cool and don't melt the internal wire bonds.

    They're claiming 0.15C/W for Rthj-c and derate MTTF with temperature. Keeping the silicon down to 150C max at full power on CW is going to be quite a trick.
    What if soy milk is just regular milk introducing itself in Spanish?

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