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09-08-2003, 11:49 PM
#211
| Quote (N2EY @ Sep. 08 2003,16:06) | | Quote (n0klu @ Sep. 07 2003,16:33) | One question for those who are "Know-Code":
If Morse Code Is so poular then why is the voice band filled and the cw band so empty?  [/QUOTE]
First off, there are no "cw bands" in the ARS below 30 MHz. The non-phone parts of the bands are all shared with data modes.
The *only* exclusively-CW bandspace in US amateur radio is 50.0-50.1 and 144.0-144.1 MHz. And it's avaialble to all hams except Novices.
Now - why do the phone-image bands seem busier? Several reasons:
1) 'Phone is the most popular mode.
Exactly
2) 'Phone modes take up more spectrum. A typical SSB signal is more than 10 times wider than a typical CW signal, so if you spin the dial at random, the chances of hearing a 'phone signal are greater.
My HF Rig is an Alinco DX70 and I slowly spin the dial from one end of the band (of course there are different bands) to the other end. I took my measurements on different slices of time specturm, morning 7:30am CST till 120pm CST, Afternoon 10pm CST till 40pm CST, evening 6:30pm till 110pm CST for seven days and counted number of QSO's on each band with the exception of 30m which had morning:1-6 , Afternoon:0-2 , Evening:4- 16, QSO's high and low counts.
The high and low counts were as follows:CW
morning:0-4, afternoon:0-6, evening:4-20
Voice
morning:15-28, afternoon:36-42, evening:72-118
3) There are more 'phone ops running high power.
this may be trure
4) Operating patterns are different. For example, most CW ragchewers I know will go to 40 meters in the summertime. The 'phone folks will go to 75 for the same purpose.
[This may also be true, however my QSO counts were across all the bands[/B]
5) The rig you are using to make the comparison *may* not be optimized for CW reception.
This may be true...I used an Alinco DX70 (not the DX-70T) the older one which has the cw filter and the plug port in the back for a Key
If you want an example of how much CW operation is really out there, take a spin through the bands during a contest.
Now this is defenately true I did not take the survey during any contesting/field day events. For the reason they do not occur every day and I wanted a typical sampling of a typical week. I realize that there is innumerable CW on contesting, No arguement there. But how often is the contesting? Every month? Every three months? twice a year? you tell me.
73 de Jim, N2EY[/QUOTE]
I tried to be fair with my assesments. I hope that you guys that love morse code will continue to enjoy it as long as ye all shall live! But as for me, I'm just not interested in pounding away on some lever made of brass
I' have made conserted effort to learn the code for over a year with unacceptable results, I have completely lost interest in the coded due to the frustration. In the beginning it was not so. I wanted very much to learn the code but it just did'nt stick, no excusses...and after a year now.... no interest. no whining ether, Just no interset. 
N0KLU, Mike
EM47, Elevation 1176'
Rolla, Missouri
ATTITUDES are contagious... Is YOURS worth catching?
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09-09-2003, 12:26 AM
#212
| Quote (aa1mn @ Sep. 08 2003,16:27) | KL7FZ,
It is time to refrain from hiding behind the desire to make the world, or more specific to the topic at hand, the amateur community over into the image of what "you" want it to be.
While many of us, such as myself, accept the fact that CW is a wonderful and intriguing aspect of ham radio those who are "educated" -- yes, I am educated and have the degrees and Extra Class license to back this stament -- have enough sense of security to see beyond just this one mode of operation to judge others by.
I find it rather ironic that of all people you, KL7FZ, say that you wish the amateur bands to be filled with more knowledgeable hams and, at the same time, use the term educated considering you promote corperal punishment as a learning tool as was stated in one of your earlier posts -- as an aside, the corperal punishment that you speak of is child abuse.
Why not visit civilization here in the state of Massachusetts where people promote abuse and molestation are dealt with in a proper fashion? #Or do you fear that you might find that it is, indeed, you who would be "handicapped" in sucha a situation?
I rather suspect that getting a more "educated" crowd in the amateur ranks would be the least of your concerns for quites some time to come.
CW is fine for those who enjoy it but not for the rest of us who do not.
Chuck, AA1MN[/QUOTE]
You know, I had a real vituperative response written. But I have seen and heard enough whining to last the rest of the short time I have left. You shall reap what you sow. You are welcome to it. You shall have a world less civil. Less respectful. Less peaceful. Less educated. Less motivated. I feel sorry for you. I really do. Your political correctness will eventually do you in. Your lowering of standards will bring the world to stagnation.
My only hope is they do develop "Soylent Green" soon. The only real use left for most that I can see.
A degree is only a piece of paper. Just like an amateur license. And just like the amateur license it does not mean you understand or know the subject. IT DID NOT USED TO BE THAT WAY. BUT NOW IT IS THE NORM. After all you are the one who admitted that you have the Extra license and don't know OHM'S LAW. After that, there is no more to say. And I find no need to ever respond to you any more.
However I shall leave you with one note. In the hope of some enlightenment. #I=E/R. I being current. E being voltage and R represents resistance. (Just for all you highly educated and degreed people out there) I hope it isn't too difficult for you.
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09-09-2003, 12:46 AM
#213
| Quote (AE6IP @ Sep. 08 2003,13:28) | | Quote | I have 40 years of operating experience to base my observations on. Another good ten years of listening and associations to add to that. Nearly a half century around or in ham radio on HF, VHF, UHF, and microwave should be ample qualification to let me make an informed opinion. That's more than a handful brother. [/QUOTE]
That was a lot of words for a paragraph that adds up to no.
Personal observation is the poorest form of evidence, because it is always subjective.
A classic demonstration of this is: "All red sports cars are driven by blondes". #A lot of people will tell you that the statement is true. #It's not. #The reason why people think it is true is because the combination of a red sports car and a blonde is more memorable than other combinations.
If you haven't keep records, then your informed opinion is suffering from the same sort of bias.
For example: Suppose you are noticing more bad behavior now than you did 20 years ago. Is it simply because there are more people on the air now, or is it really that a greater percentage of the people on the air exhibit poor behavior?
40 years of undocumented personal observation won't give you the information you need to answer that question.
Plus, there's the problem with mistaken memory. #A lot of pro-coders in this debate claim that the FCC created turmoil when it deregulated the CBS and that it then got out of control. #They believe they remember this. #However, the verifiable facts are that CBS was out of hand for 2 or more years before the FCC finally admitted that they couldn't enforce the rules and deregulated it.[/QUOTE]
I am happy and satisfied with my ability to make the proper conclusions with the information at hand and my own observations. If I observe a dog after being run over in the street and he is not breathing, not moving, is stiff and is cold. Then I am confident in my pronouncement of his death. So goes amateur radio. It has been run over. It is about to be backed over again. The light in its eyes is fading. The breath is being sucked out. The only thing left is the voodoo witch doctors are about to sacrifice some chickens to try to save it. The only thing you are going to get are radio zombies. Have fun. They will be coming for you soon. You are continuing to fiddle with words and refusing to really see what is happening around you. Nero had nothing on you. Geez, I feel like I am holding a picture up in front of a room of blind people.
I will not be responding to you any more. #Heading for the microwave frontier. Follow. If you can.
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09-09-2003, 01:32 AM
#214
Civilization in Massachusetts, isn't that where the town of Salem is, where they used to BBQ every night ?
OHM the International unit of electrical resistance, named after Georg Simon Ohm #1787-1854 a German Physicist.
The OHM was thrown in just in case any Extra Class get called in for retest.
However when they do away with the useless technical testing it won't be needed.
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09-09-2003, 03:05 AM
#215
I have a suggestion, let’s replace CW testing with psychological testing.
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09-09-2003, 03:16 AM
#216
OH MY GOD.....It's the end of the WORLD!!!!
or at least ham radio as we know it!!!
The whole world is going to go into a panic....No more Morse code...arrrrgh!! Heeeeeeeeelllllllllp!!! we're falling into the great CB trap!!!!... it all gonna be CB Land!!!!
You guys make it sound so stupid. Are all you "Know-Coders" that stupid? Golly gee whiz I hope there is some sanity out there inthe REAL radio world!
OK So the sectrum will have more QSO's yes but it won't be the "End Of The World" as you would suppose! hahaha this is idiocy listening to you guys, I'm getting a good laugh at your panic!( I got mad at first but not any more) It's like something right out of SciFi.....oooooohhhh it's a ghost......BOO!!
Get a grip on yourselves. Your so afraid you will not have all the clear space on the bands....TOO BAD!!!
SO SAD!! grow up meatheads! If you don't like it Go do something else! hahahaha what a bunch or maroons....as bugs bunny used to say, hahaha ROFL!!!
It's only a hobby, Not some "critical" invasion of the body snatchers or something. Live with it or leave (yes sell you radios on eBay...I'll be buying)!!!
Good night all and have good dreams / nightmares!!
Freddie in disguise
N0KLU, Mike
EM47, Elevation 1176'
Rolla, Missouri
ATTITUDES are contagious... Is YOURS worth catching?
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09-09-2003, 04:36 AM
#217
| Quote (n0klu @ Sep. 08 2003,20:16) | OH MY GOD.....It's the end of the WORLD!!!!
or at least ham radio as we know it!!!
The whole world is going to go into a panic....No more Morse code...arrrrgh!! Heeeeeeeeelllllllllp!!! we're falling into the great CB trap!!!!... it all gonna be CB Land!!!!
You guys make it sound so stupid. Are all you "Know-Coders" that stupid? Golly gee whiz I hope there is some sanity out there inthe REAL radio world!
OK So the sectrum will have more QSO's yes but it won't be the "End Of The World" as you would suppose! hahaha this is idiocy listening to you guys, I'm getting a good laugh at your panic!( I got mad at first but not any more) It's like something right out of SciFi.....oooooohhhh it's a ghost......BOO!!
Get a grip on yourselves. Your so afraid you will not have all the clear space on the bands....TOO BAD!!!
SO SAD!! grow up meatheads! If you don't like it Go do something else! hahahaha what a bunch or maroons....as bugs bunny used to say, hahaha ROFL!!!
It's only a hobby, Not some "critical" invasion of the body snatchers or something. Live with it or leave (yes sell you radios on eBay...I'll be buying)!!!
Good night all and have good dreams / nightmares!!
Freddie in disguise[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the demo. So this is what we will hear on the bands soon. You did it better than I ever could have.
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09-09-2003, 05:53 AM
#218
| Quote (KL7FZ @ Sep. 07 2003,21:46) | You don't need to look at any other countries. We dropped the code here for VHF and UHF. Remember? And we dropped the requirement for the rest to 5 wpm. And now we have lots of hams who have little or no electronics knowledge. A lot of the hams today don't know what Ohm's Law is or what a wavelength is at two meters. No-code had a definate impact and it was right here. And it was negative. And it has encouraged the malcontents and lazy bums to go for more. It is plain as the nose on your face. The ears on your head. The mindless converstions on VHF. The stupid statements I hear on the air. Bow your head. They are playing TAPS for ham radio. Show some respect please![/QUOTE]
Mello out d00d - I think you are over generalizing. I flew in under the radar of code and got my license - even then I knew what all those things are - so did a lot of the hams who got their no-code tech. We used to have lots of fun talking on the repeaters in town - I've met several life long friends that way. One of them N7ZWS was an engineer at KCBY - now I think he works doing master control at KVAL. I found in my travels a lot of people who were going to no-code tech were people like that - engineers and technicians.
Just because there are a few bad apples in Alaska doesn't mean that happens here. (btw you're not that guy who refused to give me a QSL card for the QSO on 10 meters are you? I just realized I've only worked one station in Alaska in my life)
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09-09-2003, 08:00 PM
#219
Reading the postings for the last few months I would have to agree with KL7FZ, the posting by NØKLU is a prelude of what to expect, already present on the upper bands soon we will be able to share that with the International set on HF. I think the post pretty well sums up the general attitude that Ham Radio is going to take on .His post is not the first to express the attitude only the current. One more example to the world of what the ugly american is really like .One more vestige of Part 97 chipped off and discarded. 97.1 (e)
#
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09-09-2003, 08:50 PM
#220
| Quote |
I am happy and satisfied with my ability to make the proper conclusions with the information at hand and my own observations. If I observe a dog after being run over in the street and he is not breathing, not moving, is stiff and is cold. Then I am confident in my pronouncement of his death.
[/QUOTE]
The scary thing about this analogy of yours is that you probably do believe that evaluating the state of amateur radio is as simple a problem as recognizing an obvious road kill.
| Quote |
So goes amateur radio. It has been run over. It is about to be backed over again. The light in its eyes is fading. The breath is being sucked out. The only thing left is the voodoo witch doctors are about to sacrifice some chickens to try to save it.
[/QUOTE]
Please let me know when you sell your equipment, maybe I can get some bargains.
| Quote |
The only thing you are going to get are radio zombies. Have fun. They will be coming for you soon. You are continuing to fiddle with words and refusing to really see what is happening around you. Nero had nothing on you.
[/QUOTE]
I drove 1100 miles over two day, a few days ago, scanning GMRS/FRS, CB, and 2m, and didn't hear even 1 instance of the sort of behaviour you claim is rampant. I live in the second largest metropolitan area (after the LA basin) in California and routinely monitor GMRS/FRS, 2m and 10m and don't see theh behaviour you claim is rampant.
I don't think I'm the one who is refusing to see what is really going on.
| Quote |
Geez, I feel like I am holding a picture up in front of a room of blind people.
I will not be responding to you any more. Heading for the microwave frontier. Follow. If you can.
[/QUOTE]
And I feel like I have once again encountered an old timer who doesn't want any facts to encroach on his beliefs, and who would rather resort to ad hominem than have a reasonable discussion.
Franky, if you were typical of experienced hams, I'd walk away from the hobby. But I think I'll hang around another 20 years and see what the sky-is-falling crowd is bitching about then.
73
Marty
Marty
AE6IP
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