PayPal "gift" payments are prohibited

[NY4I]

I don't dispute that paying PalPal for their services is the ethical thing to do. I also agree that ads that ask for fees to be paid by the user or to use the gift deny PayPal their right to compensation for their service. I do question where the listing provider (QRZ) draws the line. Technically, the user has to report any profit from a sale as income. To use an extreme example, should QRZ insist sellers list any income on their tax return? I believe the site is trying legislate ethical behavior and that is pretty hard to do. People will game the system even for a penny. At some point, you just have to trust your buyers will only deal with ethical people and hope for the best. People speed, lie and cheat. Hams will haggle at a tailgate over a dollar so they will also try to cheat the big bad corporation out of their money. The breakdown of ethics is the greater issue. Maybe that would be a good question on the exams

Tom NY4I

[WB0YUL]

I would suggest that QRZ not get involved in the payment arrangements at all, that just like a community newspaper leave the payment negotiations between the buyer and seller.

It is not the responsibility of QRZ to enforce PayPal policies, nor should they.

Just like every other hamfest, no one is forcing the buying party to purchase an item. When one involves PayPal, even in an unofficial way, there is an implied contract and warranty and QRZ should steer clear of this liability.

Let the hams work it out. They have since hams have been hams, and are intelligent enough to figure it all out on their own. If this cannot be accepted by QRZ, simply discontinue the service, or better yet, charge a flat rate directly to the ham sellers for posting a listing, then legally you can dictate the terms of sale.

Thank you.

[KY4LW]

This User Agreement ("Agreement") is a contract between you and PayPal and applies to your use of the PayPal Services. You must read, agree with and accept all of the terms and conditions contained in this Agreement. In addition, you must read, agree with and accept any applicable agreements on the Legal Agreements page.

4.6 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

IF YOU`VE AGREED TO THESE TERMS, THEN YOU AS A SELLER CANNOT ASK YOUR POTENTIAL BUYERS TO "PAY THE PAYPAL FEE"

[K2ULR]

Pay Pal was better when it was not owned by eBay. Back then, there was no fee for person to person transactions, (paypal to paypal accounts). Of course, typical interest rates were higher, so PP would be able to earn something for balances that just "sat" in the account. Now, rates are -extremely- low, so they have imposed handling fees. Well, that's their option. I have a PP balance, but when that's zeroed out, I'm gone.

My bank will mail a bank check to anyone (in the U.S.) which is probably better than me writing a personal check. And, they do it for no fee. I can make payments via cellphone, too. All I need to know is the recipient's email address. And... no fee. That's almost as good as cash.

73 de Ray
K2ULR

[W7RKN]

Not sure about your 3.5-4.5% fee number, I thought it was 2.9% + $0.30. In any event, it can be less expensive for a buyer to offer to pay a little extra to cover the paypal fee than it would have been to purchase a USPS Money Order and send it with delivery confirmation to the seller. More important to me is that using paypal tends to get my purchased gear in my hands a week sooner and saves me a trip to the post office.

I was nicked $5 plus for a $100.00 transaction...a bit more than 2.9%......

[K7MH]

I was nicked $5 plus for a $100.00 transaction...a bit more than 2.9%......

I guess I am the only one around here that remembers what most ham stores (used to) charge to sell gear on commission.
Usually between 20 to 30 percent and something may have sat there for a few months before it sold, if at all.

4.6 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

IF YOU'VE AGREED TO THESE TERMS, THEN YOU AS A SELLER CANNOT ASK YOUR POTENTIAL BUYERS TO "PAY THE PAYPAL FEE"

And of course you see it frequently in listings here.

[W1CEK]

Interesting thread, Don’t normally see a small operation defending big corporations. Not sure what the problem is. If Paypal didn’t want us to use the Gift option they could delete it. Did Paypal contact QRZ with a complaint?

[K4FCP]

I have used Paypal for over 10 years and, for the most part, I'm satisfied; however, I found out the hard way that their fraud guarantees are pretty much worthless. You can only get your money back IF the seller has money in their account. It is not an insurance policy and will not protect you if someone is
trying to defraud you. That said, I continue to use them for small purchases (under $100) and even then "Caveat Emptor" still works for me. For larger purchases I work out a deposit with the seller using Paypal, and then use other means for the main body of the payment/remittance. I certainly do not worryl about Paypal being cheated as they have some very serious ethical/business practices issues. Please see "Regretsy and Paypal" for just one of many.

[WA0KDS]

Have you ever tried filing a claim with the Post Office about a MO. Forget it. Money Orders are counterfeited all the time. Be careful.

[ER1UVL]

Moneybookers is also considered a safe payment method. And MoneyBookers is a heavy opponent of PayPal.

More than that, Moneybookers offers Escrow Service, so buyer can send money via Escrow Moneybookers, seller receives funds, but seller is unable to withraw until buyer confirms that he/she received the order.

I use Moneybookers over 8 years.

I bought from a seller an Nikon D40X. I sent him money via Moneybookers using Escrow, seller received funds.


Until I confirmed receiving of order, seller was not able to make anything with money, they were locked in account.

When I confirmed, seller was able to withraw his funds.