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Thread: Soldering 12 gauge solid wire to copper PC board

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Conyers, GA
    Posts
    202

    Default Soldering 12 gauge solid wire to copper PC board

    I've been working on a DC distributor inspired by http://www.qsl.net/wd4bis/connect.htm and having some real problems soldering the solid 12 gauge copper wire I have to the PC board. No matter how long I hold the 40 watt soldering pencil at the board and wire, I can't get the wire hot enough to melt solder. I always end up with a blob with a hole in it surrounding the copper and the hole. I've tried applying rosin flux to the wire and board, but that just creates a sticky mess so far. Any tips for this type of soldering? Do I just need a large iron/gun/torch for this thing?
    Thanks for any help,
    KG4GUF-Matt
    73
    KG4GUF

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Dallas / Fort Worth
    Posts
    3,776

    Default

    You need a bigger iron. We regularly solder #14 and #18 stranded wire at work, and we use a commercial soldering station and a large tip -- on some boards we have to crank the heat up a bit to make it work. For the larger stuff I would use a Weller gun.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Carmel, IN
    Posts
    6,283

    Default

    Yes large iron. and as always depending on how often you will do this you can get cheap "stick" or expensive iron where you can change out the tips and adjust the temperature.

    Wire like this will just sink away the heat.
    Leroy
    Be sure to listen for my beacon on 28.278.8 MHz

  4. #4

    Post

    No matter how long I hold the 40 watt soldering pencil at the board and wire, I can't get the wire hot enough to melt solder. I always end up with a blob with a hole in it surrounding the copper and the hole.
    Matt -

    A. Use a Temperature Controlled soldering iron (or station) to achieve repeatable results!
    Cheap line voltage irons bought at local hardware store or Radio Shack -- terrible tools for learning proper soldering techniques.

    B. Use a Quality Tin/Lead solder, such as Kester "44".

    C. Your work metals need to be CLEAN and free of oils or coatings -- before soldering.

    Proper soldering requires making 3 proper decisions for your work.

    1. Proper TEMPERATURE for your solder.
    This is 650 to 750 degrees for 60/40 or 63/37 Tin/Lead solder. NEVER "dial up" an adjustable station past 750 degrees for Tin/Lead solders -- that is why I refer to it as the Idiot Knob !

    2. Proper PROFILE.
    USE a Chisel or Screwdriver tip. Cheap soldering irons are sold with Conical tips -- a Conical tip is the WRONG profile for a majority of amateur radio soldering.

    3. Proper MASS.
    MATCH the SIZE of the tip to the MASS of the soldering work. You do not cook soup in a metal pot with a lighter or a match !!

    In your specific case, I would recommend a 1/8" or 3/16" Screwdriver tip.
    1/8 inch Screwdriver tips: Weller ETC for Weller "EC" series; WES51, or WESD1. Weller PTC-7 for the Weller TCP series.
    3/16 inch Screwdriver tips: Weller ETD for Weller "EC" series; WES51, or WESD1. Weller PTD-7 for the Weller TCP series.

    w9gb
    Last edited by W9GB; 12-03-2010 at 02:09 AM.
    Nullius in verba

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Newcastle, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    2,877

    Default

    As the others have said, a large tip is required; I think that even 'GBs spec for tip size is minimal.

    You are not heating just a little of the 12g wire; being copper, it's transferring heat along its length as fast as you can pour it in at the joint.

    A fair mass of copper is being heated and that calls for a large tip.

    A tip is like a bucket full of heat; you have to have enough in the bucket to fill the work with heat quickly.

    Extra temperature is of little use if the tip is undersize.

    In the job you are doing, the holes are not strictly necessary; you could just lay the wires flat on the PCB and solder. But the holes will help hold the wires steady so are a good idea. They will also hold the wire if the PCB copper starts to peel-away so that makes them an even better idea.

    If you use the holes, pass the wire through in a Z-form so the joint lies flat against the PCB copper.

    Technique; first thoroughly "tin" the wire; get as much solder as will stick on the part to be joined before it's laid flat against the PCB.

    Also tin the PCB at the joint.

    Now lay the wire on the joint and heat by placing the flat of the tip on top of the wire and pressing down; if the tip is large enough, heat will flow into the joint through the wire and it will all suddenly melt together.

    Since there is now a lot of heat in the wire, the solder will take some time to solidify; do not move anything until it does so.

    Some kind of clamping or holding helps a lot. A weight on the PCB and another weight on the wire(s) would be simple; to avoid burning the benchtop, I use a square of glass with rubber feet glued to the underside. I had a tile once as a heat-protector but I lost it.

    Once you have mastered this job you can begin to call yourself a solderer; as in welding, joining a thin part to a thick part is one of the most difficult tasks because of the different heat requirements of each part.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Newcastle, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    2,877

    Default

    I usually try to "answer the question" instead of trying to re-design a poster's project but I have had a look at the web page you posted.

    Some of the designs might be marginal as far as current-carrying capacity is concerned if large currents are contemplated.

    This depends on copper thickness (usually one-ounce in commonly-available material), trace width and acceptable temperature rise so there is no "fixed" answer.

    Google "pcb current capacity" to find information and calculators.

    If in doubt, solder some wire along the tracks; this will further enhance your soldering skills.

  7. #7

    Default

    Hi Matt,

    Copper, aside from being a good conductor of electrons, is also a very good thermal conductor. All that copper is wicking the heat right out of your 40W iron. As was mentioned, you don't have nearly enough "horsepower" in your iron. For a job like this, I'd use at least 100W of power and/or an iron with a tip that has a lot of mass. I use a Weller 8200 solder gun (100W/140W) for things like this.

    This type of gun is nothing more than a step-down transformer with a 1 turn secondary. It passes a large current thru a copper wire tip. When the tip opens on Sunday night and I don't want to wait 'til Monday morning to buy a new one, I just form one out of 12 ga solid house wire.

    Ace Hardware has the 8200 for $34.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Newcastle, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    2,877

    Default

    The Scope range of soldering irons has been made in Australia for a very long time; they were common when I began soldering more than 50 years ago.

    I don't think that they are available in the US; perhaps they were, years ago.

    The principle is simple; there is a carbon cylinder (something like a carbon motor brush) in the barrel behind the tip.

    There is a trigger arrangement that, when pressed, pushes this carbon against the bottom of the copper tip; this completes a circuit and very heavy current flows through the carbon and the tip to ground.

    This heats things very quickly; leave the trigger "on" for a few seconds too long and the tip, the carbon and the end of the barrel glow bright orange!

    I have a Scope transformer (3.3v @ about 30+A I think) and two irons; 70w (baby) and 100w "standard".

    The "baby" has a better trigger mechanism; it's possible to do large soldering jobs (UHF connectors, brass RF-shield cases) by just "tapping" the trigger to feed-in more heat as required.

    Not ideal for SMD but great for other jobs.

    http://www.wiltronics.com.au/catalog...oldering-irons

    But I think that our OP would be best-served by a basic iron of about 40-60w with a tip of, perhaps, 1/4" - 3/8" diameter.

    Wattage is important but it's secondary to a good-sized lump of copper in the tip.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Etna PA
    Posts
    2,894

    Default

    A Star Trek tribute play by AI3V:

    (Bridge of Enterprise, in background general quarters alarm is going off)

    Sulu: Captian, Klingon ship dead ahead.

    Spock: They are firing torpedos.

    (strange space torpedo sound)

    Spock: Hit on starboard shields, shields down to 16%

    Captian Kirk: Scotty, I need mor heat.

    Scotty: I'm giving it all she's got captain, 2 dylithium crystals are shot, and the third one has a hairline fracture.

    Captian Kirk: Scotty, I...Need...Mor...Heat...

    (sound of bulkhead falling on bridge as klingon torpedo detonates)

    Fin




    *************************

    I have 7 or 8 soldering devices, from a 20 watt pencil, to a propane torch heated copper slug the size of your thumb.

    Just a note,IMHO the temperature of the iron is not as important as the thermal mass of the tip.

    Rege
    Now my mistakes travel at the speed of light!:cool:

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Conyers, GA
    Posts
    202

    Default

    Thanks for all the replies!
    I'm not sure if Radioshack sells chisel bits for my current pencil, but if they do, I might try that seeing as they shouldn't be much more than $2. If not, then I'm looking for something inexpensive that I can go pickup in the store.
    Homedepot and Lowes both sell this Weller 40 watt kit http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardw...atalogId=10053
    for a decent price and it looks like it includes a chisel tip. The Atlanta Ham Radio Outlet also has their grand re-opening tomorrow and hopefully some good deals so I'll look there.
    Also, I didn't even think about the current capacity of the PCB. My SEC-1223 can have a draw of 23 amps and while I certainly wouldn't want to draw that for extended periods, I'd rather not start a fire on top of my desk. I have some brass strips from a previous project, 1/8" thick. I'm assuming it'd be much harder to solder these?
    Thanks for all the help.
    KG4GUF-Matt
    73
    KG4GUF

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