"Self-Esteem Movement": the downfall of a generation?

[K4KYV]

How long before this thread gets locked? The topic is not "light 'n fun", but serious social commentary. Therefore, it might be controversial, and (hell forbid), someone might cringe at the possibility that it is fixin' to get ready to start becoming political!

I won't comment any further. From now on, if and when I participate on this web site, I'll most likely just stay in "Talk" or some other ham radio related forum. This "light 'n fun" crap is BO-RING.

[KE5FRF]

OK, I took a minute to watch the YouTube link.

If purely criticizing the lyrics, I would say that the song is not "so bad" on the most basic level. We sing all sorts of ridiculous songs to pre-school children. Actually, if you looked into the history of a LOT of nursery rhymes, you might cringe to know what you are actually teaching children.

For instance, does anyone here realize that "Ring around the Rosies" was sung to ward off the "Black Death" during the plague? Now, Snopes has something different to say about the topic, but I've read more than a few "debunkings" published by Snopes that were bunk themselves...and, though I'm no historian, I do KNOW FOR A FACT that college texts have been connecting the history of nursery rhymes to contemporary superstition for a very long time. I believe it has just become popular as of late to question what was once accepted as true.

Point being, much of what children hear in these songs and rhymes are just words and music, something to clap and dance to and keep their little minds and bodies busy. I don't think singing, "If your happy and you know it clap your hands", for instance, scarred me as a child.

I do think that going to deep into the "everyone is the same and yet different in their own special way" touchy feely stuff can be damaging. And if I were a child, I'd be scared of the particular clip on YouTube. Wierd!

[N7WR]

Downfall of a generation? How about downfall of a country?

[N0WUE]

somewhere along the line, people started to mistake "your individuality is what makes you special" for "you suck, but we'll tell you it's ok to suck"

[K9STH]

My father's eldest sister's husband's brother (how about that for a relationship) was unmarried until he was in his middle 40s. He was also the dean of the psychology department at a major university in Ohio. For years he recommended that parents follow the information given in the Doctor Spock books. That is how to discipline your children without any force, etc.

Then he got married and started having children. It wasn't that long before he found another use for Doctor Spock's book: It made a very good "pad" for the hand when "swatting" the behind of his children when they got unruly! He definitely found that at certain times no other thing worked!

He also was not a believer of the "feel good, no matter what", technique. If something was wrong then you said it was wrong. None of this trying not to hurt the "feelings" of the individual. Frankly, once the students "grow up" and enter the "real world", the situation changes and the student gets "hit in the face" when he/she has to take responsibility for their actions. Most can handle the situation but some cannot. Besides, when the student is required to take responsibility for their actions when young, they can almost always enter into the "real world" without any problems at all.

Glen, K9STH

[NA0AA]

Yea, my kid sucked right into the SE thing, and since everything was just as good, for math? A drawing. For English? A drawing. For Science? A drawing.

He refused to cooperate until they special educated him right into incompetence. 28 and barely able to support himself, but I guess I should count my blessings, he's not still living at home!

I agree with the above that Self Esteem has to be earned the hard way, just as competence does. False feelings of SE are just sad and lead to really worse things.

[K9STH]

Pat:

Special Education can be a VERY good thing! My middle daughter has a learning disability. Her condition is called "left brained". In most people certain functions happen on the left hand side of the brain and certain functions happen on the right hand side of the brain. When the person is left-handed those functions are reversed. However, a "left brained" person has the functions reversed from the "normal". That is, functions that are normally on the left hand side of the brain in a right handed person are on the right side of the "left brained" person even though they are right handed.

A "left brained" person learns in a completely different manner than a "normal" person. Those persons will make the same mistakes over and over and over. Then, suddenly, their results will be perfect! Also, the information will be retained long after a "normal" person forgets the information. My daughter took piano lessons for a number of years and her teacher used to get angry with her because she would make mistake after mistake and then play the piece perfectly. One day the teacher's husband was home. He was a music professor at SMU (Southern Methodist University) and heard the teacher's tirade. He told his wife that my daughter was "left brained" and that many of his college students (music majors) were "left brained" as well.

My daughter had been having problems in school. With the SMU professor's diagnosis we were able to talk with the school counselors. Knowing the problem then they further tested her to confirm the diagnosis. The result was a special learning approach and her grades improved dramatically. She had one teacher, who was definitely not liked by my daughter, but who taught in a manner that was perfect for my daughter. The teacher often sent home notes with the information that my daughter had made the highest grade in the class on tests!

This same teacher also taught at the local junior college and my daughter got her for one of her college classes. If that particular teacher's teaching methods could be "bottled" and used by others, many of those students with "learning disabilities" would have no problems at all.

My daughter is now in her middle 30s and is a teacher at a elementary school in Scottsdale, Arizona. She definitely has a "place in her heart" for those students with learning disabilities. In most cases, it is finding the correct manner to teach those students so that they can learn. It is not that they don't want to learn, it is just that they learn in a different manner than most.

Glen, K9STH

[W9PSK]

The problem is that too many people become parents without any training whatsoever. They don't know how to properly discipline their children, and they also don't know how to properly praise their children. Parenting is the most important responsibility anyone can have and people are left to figure it out on their own. On one extreme you have parents who mistreat their children so much that their self-esteem is destroyed. On the other extreme you have parents who wouldn't discipline their children if they intentionally burned the house to the ground.

We need to develop mandatory parenting classes for high school. There is plenty of good research on what works and what doesn't work that could be incorporated into the training. The reason we are seeing so many of the "feel good" type of approaches is because the "children should be seen and not heard" and the "beat the fire out of them" approaches dominated society for a long time. The pendulum has now swung fully in the opposite direction, which will create as many problems as the old methods created. What we need is a good balance, which will undoubtedly be difficult to achieve.

And before some of you start in with your "it worked for me 50 years ago when I was a kid" nonsense, you need to realize that the world is a very different place than it was 50 years ago. Things like television, computers, cell phones, and the general introduction of all types of technology has changed what it means to be a child growing up in today's society. Today's children have a much broader viewpoint and are much more connected to the world outside the home than in decades past. Authoritarian styles of parenting just don't work like they used to.

Anyway, the point is that parents need to be educated on good parenting before they become parents. It's true that there is no one sure fire method for raising children that is guaranteed to work with all children. As the father of four children, I can tell you that I have had to adjust the method I use to each child's individual personality. A one size fits all approach simply wouldn't work. I don't deal with my son the same way I deal with my oldest daughter. I don't deal with the youngest daughter the same way I deal with my middle daughter. Yes, there is a basic set of house rules they all must comply with, but, apart from that, my relationship with each of them is different, along with what is expected of them. The oldest girl is very outspoken and opinionated, so I give her more leeway in making her opinions known. My son is very easily led, so I have worked to teach him to think for himself. The middle daughter is very independent and likes to be alone, so I give her plenty of space. The youngest girl thinks she's God's gift mankind, so I work to rein in her over-confidence.

I endeavor to let them be who they are while teaching them to not let their strengths become faults. I remind my oldest daughter that she isn't in charge of the world and people don't like being told what to do all the time. I remind my son that he needs to be his own man, even though one has to be a good follower before they can become a good leader. I encourage my middle daughter to spend more time socializing with her friends so she doesn't become a hermit living in her own little world. And I stress to my youngest daughter that there's more to life than being beautiful.

My hope is that my children will become well adjusted and productive adults who recognize their strengths and limitations. I take parenting very seriously. No, I did not get any training prior to becoming a parent, but I still think it would be a good idea.

Since this thread is probably going to get locked down anyway, I will say that I've learned everything I've learned about being a parent through prayer, seeking the face of God, and reading my Bible. The Word says that God gives wisdom to all men liberally and that we just have to ask for it in faith. I've done that and He has not let me down or left me alone to raise my children. He's been faithful to His Word and helped me with every step along the parental road.

[W9PSK]

Pat:

Special Education can be a VERY good thing! My middle daughter has a learning disability. Her condition is called "left brained". In most people certain functions happen on the left hand side of the brain and certain functions happen on the right hand side of the brain. When the person is left-handed those functions are reversed. However, a "left brained" person has the functions reversed from the "normal". That is, functions that are normally on the left hand side of the brain in a right handed person are on the right side of the "left brained" person even though they are right handed.

A "left brained" person learns in a completely different manner than a "normal" person. Those persons will make the same mistakes over and over and over. Then, suddenly, their results will be perfect! Also, the information will be retained long after a "normal" person forgets the information. My daughter took piano lessons for a number of years and her teacher used to get angry with her because she would make mistake after mistake and then play the piece perfectly. One day the teacher's husband was home. He was a music professor at SMU (Southern Methodist University) and heard the teacher's tirade. He told his wife that my daughter was "left brained" and that many of his college students (music majors) were "left brained" as well.

My daughter had been having problems in school. With the SMU professor's diagnosis we were able to talk with the school counselors. Knowing the problem then they further tested her to confirm the diagnosis. The result was a special learning approach and her grades improved dramatically. She had one teacher, who was definitely not liked by my daughter, but who taught in a manner that was perfect for my daughter. The teacher often sent home notes with the information that my daughter had made the highest grade in the class on tests!

This same teacher also taught at the local junior college and my daughter got her for one of her college classes. If that particular teacher's teaching methods could be "bottled" and used by others, many of those students with "learning disabilities" would have no problems at all.

My daughter is now in her middle 30s and is a teacher at a elementary school in Scottsdale, Arizona. She definitely has a "place in her heart" for those students with learning disabilities. In most cases, it is finding the correct manner to teach those students so that they can learn. It is not that they don't want to learn, it is just that they learn in a different manner than most.

Glen, K9STH

SE today is not the same SE from years gone by, that much is true. Years ago, your daughter would simply have been written off. Today, they will work with your daughter, including adjusting the teaching methods they use to suit her "left brained" ways. The really sad thing is that we don't know how many children, who were actually very intelligent but learned differently than others, ended up in the SE of days gone by, never to have their intelligence developed.

[KA5S]

SE today is not the same SE from years gone by, that much is true. Years ago, your daughter would simply have been written off. Today, they will work with your daughter, including adjusting the teaching methods they use to suit her "left brained" ways. The really sad thing is that we don't know how many children, who were actually very intelligent but learned differently than others, ended up in the SE of days gone by, never to have their intelligence developed.

There was no Special Education when I was being called a rotten kid and tested for idiocy. "How many fingers am I holding up?" That sort of thing. By the time my son came along there was "minimally brain damaged" and later ADHD and autism as diagnoses. We were both probably (are, probably) mildly autistic. In fact, not every child CAN learn in the same way and a lack of discipline does not cause it. I will testify in any court you please that the 1950's boarding school approach was tried on me, and one cannot beat learning into a child, only submission and a hate of being taught. Thank GOD I was stubborn enough to stand up to the fatherless sons who thought they could. And for books!

I had to earn my own self esteem, and it took a while.

Unfortunately, the Credentialed States of America is not friendly to people who learn without expert supervision.

Inside each adult
There must hide
A child,
Who runs away
From all the pain remembered,
That he sees each day,
Who lets another child grow up afraid;
Inside each adult hides
The price he paid.




Cortland
KA5S