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Thread: 60m PSK31 ??? PSK31 is USB Right?

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  1. #1

    Default 60m PSK31 ??? PSK31 is USB Right?

    60m PSK31 ??? PSK31 is USB Right?

    My question might be silly, but after reviewing the ARRL 60m FAQ, I'm not sure WHY PSK31 on 60m is not legal, after all PSK31 is USB, and 60m is all USB/SSB.
    KI4SGU - [email]jorgedlt@yahoo.com[/email]

  2. #2
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    Unhappy Sorry Voice only

    Quote Originally Posted by KI4SGU View Post
    60m PSK31 ??? PSK31 is USB Right?

    My question might be silly, but after reviewing the ARRL 60m FAQ, I'm not sure WHY PSK31 on 60m is not legal, after all PSK31 is USB, and 60m is all USB/SSB.
    I'm sure amateurs are restricted to voice comms on that allocation. Otherwise I would get on 60M CW ! ! !
    73.....JD, FISTS #3853,cc 455,SKCC # 1395,tribune #12,
    Official US Taxpayer

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    This post sounds very much like an issue that us Slow Scan operators have been wondering about for quite a while. I believe you will find the answer, if not directly, certainly in essence in Steve Ford's reply to a string that was on the ZED a few weeks ago. This is in regards to using narrow SSTV on 10 Mhz. Steve's answer is below as the major part of this post, which follows:

    After Steve Ford WB8IMY wrote his article that appeared in the June 2008 issue of
    QST magazine, I sent him an E-Mail, asking if he would clarify what he stated in that article, IE: that "recent changes" had been made which allowed narrow SSTV modes to be used on the 10 Mhz band. Here is a direct copy of the correspondence that led to his very excellent response to my query:


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From: Jim Stanicek [mailto:jimstan@myactv.net]
    Sent: Mon 6/2/2008 7:31 PM
    To: Ford, Steve, WB8IMY
    Subject: Narrow bandwidth SSTV is "data" ? ? ?


    Dear Sir,

    In the "Electic Technology" article on page 98 of the June 2008 issue, you say, "Recent FCC actions have made it possible to legally exchange images in the data portions of the HF bands ... "

    What you don't recite is the "Chapter and Verse" of the "actions" that the FCC has taken that affect longstanding legislation prohibiting such transmissions.

    There have been numbers of us who have delved into the possibility of using a narrow mode of SSTV in the "cw/data" portions of the bands for a number of years, now. Witness the picture sending mode that was popular using a modified form of MFSK with MixW a few years ago. These experimental attempts never achieved greater popularity or widespread usage, because we have always been reminded of Part 97.305 of the FCC's rules and regulations that define a "Picture" as a "Picture" and "Data" as "Data", no matter WHAT the mode of modulation that was used. That current interpretation IS what allows the use of DRM to send pictures in the "voice/picture" portions of the bands, including very popular gathering spots, 14.233Mhz and 7.173Mhz. DRM may be a "digital" modulation protocol, but the CONTENT of the transmission is to be decoded as a PICTURE!

    As far as I can tell, the FCC has NOT announced any changes to part 97.305, or elsewhere that changes the rules and regulations that have been in place for a good number of years, or their interpretation now!

    I'm sorry to say this, but if the FCC came knocking on my door and arresting me for sending pictures on a frequency that was only authorized for narrow mode CW/DATA, I would not consider it an adequate argument to say, "But I read in QST Magazine, that it was OK to do it ! ". And that would be the ONLY argument I would have!

    Would you or someone PLEASE tell us EXACTLY WHERE this alleged change to the rules and regulations or their interpretation is to be found? Many of us have been hoping and searching for this change for YEARS !

    Sincerely, James Stanicek AG3Y

    Steve Ford replied:


    Jim:

    My apologies. "Recent" was actually 19 months ago. It is contained in the FCC Report and Order issued in November 2006. The R&O did, among other things, amend 97.305(c) to broaden permission for image transmission.

    In the R&O, these relevant paragraphs appear:

    16. In the NPRM, the Commission sought comment77 on whether it should revise the definition of data emission types contained in Section 97.3(c) of our Rules to include emission types A1C and F2C.78 This would permit amateur stations to transmit FAX emissions having an occupied bandwidth of 500 Hz or less on the frequency segments used for data communications.79 The NPRM also noted that limiting the occupied bandwidth of image emissions in data segments of the HF bands to 500 Hz or less would provide the amateur service community greater flexibility in developing communication systems and communications technology, thereby furthering that purpose of the amateur service while maintaining the narrow bandwidth nature of the data emission band segments.80

    17. Decision. All commenters who addressed this issue support the NPRM proposal to revise the definition of data in the amateur service rules. We agree that permitting images to be transmitted on data emission frequency segments will “allow amateur radio to make the most of new [software] programs”81 thereby “advanc[ing] its technology.”82


    73 . . . Steve, WB8IMY


    The main point is that only VOICE transmissions are allowed on 60 meters, using USB. Sending DATA on that band would be a real NO NO !

    73, Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by KI4SGU View Post
    60m PSK31 ??? PSK31 is USB Right?

    My question might be silly, but after reviewing the ARRL 60m FAQ, I'm not sure WHY PSK31 on 60m is not legal, after all PSK31 is USB, and 60m is all USB/SSB.
    My guess without having looked it up is PSK31 is a DIGITAL mode transmitted in USB. Digital and USB are not the same thing.

    But, not working 60 meters, I can't say for sure it isn't legal to use . . . .

    Off to the books . . .
    ex-W4DFW Ham since 1970. ARRL Life Member and Volunteer Counsel

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    60m only allows PHONE emissions using USB, not any other emissions.

    That said, I wonder if you can transmit digital voice on 60m?

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    The answer to your question "why is it not legal" is because the authorities have decided that it is not permitted, and that's it. Just like its not legal to drive a car on the sidewalk. Why, because its not permitted.

    G0GQK

  7. #7

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    Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to change anything, I'm looking for a chapter and verse answer as to why it is generaly believed that it is not legal. I too believe that it not, but I'm not sure why I believe it. And my other point is that psk31 could share one of those 60m channels and fill it with a dozen or more channels. And it would also generate more interest in 60m.
    KI4SGU - [email]jorgedlt@yahoo.com[/email]

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    The rules specifically state that only the permissible mode on our 60m channels is emission type 2K8J3E, upper side band voice transmission, 2.8 kHz bandwidth. See CFR 47 Part 2, 2.106, Table of Frequency Allocations and Note US 381. Also, CFR 47 Part 97, 97.303(s).

    PSK31 is emission type 60H0J2B, and therefore not allowed on 60m.
    Last edited by KR2D; 07-09-2008 at 10:44 PM. Reason: fixed emission type
    73, Ron KR2D

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    By the way, PSK31 works perfectly well with your transceiver set to LSB, you don't even need to tell your software to use inverted tones. Other soundcard modes will also work on the "wrong" sideband if you use inverted tones.

    Those data modes are not really USB or LSB. Do some research on modulation techniques to learn why. There's some good introductory material on wikipedia - but you better like mathematics!
    73, Ron KR2D

  10. #10

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    From 97.303 :

    (s) An amateur station having an operator
    holding a General, Advanced or
    Amateur Extra Class license may only
    transmit single sideband, suppressed
    carrier, (emission type 2K8J3E) upper
    sideband on the channels 5332 kHz, 5348
    kHz, 5368 kHz, 5373 kHz, and 5405 kHz.
    Amateur operators shall ensure that
    their transmission occupies only the
    2.8 kHz centered around each of these
    frequencies. Transmissions shall not
    exceed an effective radiated power
    (e.r.p) of 50 W PEP. For the purpose of
    computing e.r.p. the transmitter PEP
    will be multiplied with the antenna
    gain relative to a dipole or the equivalent
    calculation in decibels. A half
    wave dipole antenna will be presumed
    to have a gain of 0 dBd. Licensees using
    other antennas must maintain in their
    station records either manufacturer
    data on the antenna gain or calculations
    of the antenna gain. No amateur
    station shall cause harmful interference
    to stations authorized in the
    mobile and fixed services; nor is any
    amateur station protected from interference
    due to the operation of any
    such station.


    Have you read part 97, if not you should. Also do you know that it is required of you to keep a copy in your shack?


    Gary
    Last edited by N2VWW; 07-09-2008 at 11:37 PM. Reason: typo

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