K9ESE no counterpoise vertical.

[G0GQK]

Last week while browsing I found a specification drawing of the K9ESE vertical antenna but I can't remember where I saw it. I've Googled but the only thing which turned up was a mag loop. Any idea where I might find it ?

G0GQK

[AG3Y]

Comments deleted, correction made !

[W9GB]

K9ESE is Jeff Imel in Muncie, IN

He has a number of articles on Magnetic loops, QRP and did sell fiberglass poles at one time.
I am aware of his magnetic loop article, but not a vertical article.
http://www.eciqrp.org/magloops.html

w9gb

[LA4RT]

M3KXZ described a "no counterpoise antenna" which received a lot of attention about a year ago. See http://www.outsideshack.com/page2.html. Cebik also wrote about it. I tried it, and the results were disappointing. The principle is shown below, but it's supposed to be vertical:

----------------------------#============------------

A coax feeder, a choke, a 1/4 wl of speaker wire at the lowest frequency, one of the speaker wires continues for another quarter wl. It is supposed to work as a center fed vertical dipole. I.e., on the double wire part of the speaker wire, there's differential mode current that feeds it at the point where one wire is cut off, and common mode current that works as one part of the antenna. The common mode current is supposed to be choked off by the choke.

I use an antenna based on similar principles with good results on 2m. There, the choke is supposed to be self resonant, so that it forms a parallell trap. Thus, it is able to insulate the antenna from the feeder. Or may be I'm just lucky. The choke is located at a high voltage point, and the high impedance of a parallell trap is needed to block the common mode current. A few turns of coax around a toroid won't cut it. I cut mine for 40m. On 30m, it was 3 S units down below a random wire.

[G4ALA]

Didn't I see something, an article, about such vertical antennae in this month's or last month's RADCOM from the RSGB?

73

G4ALA

[K7FE]

No counterpoise, no radials = no work!!!!


Every antenna needs balance. Equal currents must flow on both sides of the antenna. A single element, end fed antenna needs a counterpoise or radials.........otherwise it will attempt to use the coax shield and surrounding metal to achieve RF current balance. The exception to "no radial" verticals are vertical dipoles that are fed in the center.

73,
Terry, K7FE

[G0GQK]

I agree with the comments about the no radials , no work. And my sincerest humblest apology for my confususion in putting counterpoint rather than the absolutely correct counterpoise, I shall make every endeavour to make certain that I never let it occur again. Never.!

The reason I ask about the K9ESE design is that I read about this antenna and have only been able to find any comments about it on a German amateur radio forum. During the last couple of years I have been messing about with various different vertical antenna's so that I am very aware of the need for radials. However that doesn't prevent me from being curious about a design by K9ESE, who it seems, sells these antennas for $19.99 from a catalogue in the US.

Surprisingly some users were quite impressed by the performance so that I, being curious by nature, wished to find a little more information about the design. I shall continue my search. They once said penicillin wouldn't work.

G0GQK

[K7JEM]

No counter poise, no radials = no work!!!!


Every antenna needs balance. Equal currents must flow on both sides of the antenna. A single element, end fed antenna needs a counter poise or radials.........otherwise it will attempt to use the coax shield and surrounding metal to achieve RF current balance. The exception to "no radial" verticals are vertical dipoles that are fed in the center.

73,
Terry, K7FE

A J-Pole is an antenna with neither radials nor a counterpoise, and it does work. An end-fed zepp also works, which is kind of what a J Pole is.

Joe

[AC0FP]

No counter poise, no radials = no work!!!!


Every antenna needs balance. Equal currents must flow on both sides of the antenna. A single element, end fed antenna needs a counter poise or radials.........otherwise it will attempt to use the coax shield and surrounding metal to achieve RF current balance. The exception to "no radial" verticals are vertical dipoles that are fed in the center.

73,
Terry, K7FE

Actually vertical dipoles, end fed Zepp's, and J-Poles are all 1/2 wave antennas and therefore are complete as K7FE has stated, no additional counterpoise is required. As far as I know, a no counterpoise antenna will have to be some type of 1/2 wave antenna in order to work properly.

73,

Frank

[G0GQK]

Hello G4ALA,

That's it ! That must be where I saw it ! I didn't keep the magazine because there isn't much in it to keep me interested, but I did make a sketch of it.

I've just been on to the German ham page and downloaded something about a no counterpoise vertical by Pete Millis, M3KXZ. Can't understand a word but the diagrams look impressive with a low takeoff. Apparently they discussed the K9ESE antenna on the German forum last year but I'm wondering where they got the information about it. In their discussions an Austrian amateur said in his opinion, as far as I could understand, it was just like a Zepp.

The drawing in the mag stated that the one wire was 50 ft long and the other was 25 feet but is the one the Germans are discussing the same as the K9ESE design.?

I read somewhere that one QRP operator was highly delighted by doing the trip from east to west in the US on 5 watts, so who knows ?

Kind regards, G0GQK