Would this work for HAM ? (Audiofool equipment)

[VE2NSM]

Although much of the audiophile garbage is bogus nonsense words that don't mean a thing, there are many people that can tell if you reverse a speakers wires. One speaker that is. The effect is great if you are listening to a true stereo recording and almost as great for a mono recording.

Steve

That is indeed obvious, but I disagree withe the stereo/mono thing. It's only noticeable when the same information is fed to both speakers, so the more difference between L/R the less noticeable it becomes.

It usually creates a disruption in the spatial location where the brain tries to locate the source but can't.
Also a lack of low frequency if the speakers are close enough.

My job is to design and install multi thousand $$$ pro audio systems for concert halls and theaters, I'm not an audiophile, but I can detect more things than any of these fools.

And I use dozens of feet of #10 or #12 guage to feed the speakers, if I had to buy interconnects at 500$ a foot, I'd be ruined by now!

[VE2NSM]

I sold one of my companies to the largest audio company in the world. My company did not do anything audio related - we were interested in the company because we wanted to sell out to a consumer electronics company.

But as a result, I got to know some of the top audio people in the world - including some "golden ears", plus the top audio scientists. All I brought to this was my love of music and enthusiasm. I'm an ex-musician and nearly an audiophile. To net out several years of being immersed in this, here are my conclusions.

There are, in fact, Golden Ears people who can reliably tell the difference between such things as speaker wires. But they are VERY few and far between.

I don't buy it. If they could, James Randi would have given them a million dollars by now. Now, if you're talking about the difference between #10 wire and miniature zip cord, ok. But I don't believe that they can tell the difference between even moderately priced special speaker cable and similarly and sufficiently sized stranded copper.

I don't buy it either, sorry.

[WY6K]

I don't buy it. If they could, James Randi would have given them a million dollars by now. Now, if you're talking about the difference between #10 wire and miniature zip cord, ok. But I don't believe that they can tell the difference between even moderately priced special speaker cable and similarly and sufficiently sized stranded copper.

A few such people seem to exist. But, IMHO, very few. I don't know who James Randi is, but some of the people I'm referring to built substantial audio companies and sold them for a hell of a lot more than a million dollars (like 100x that). I didn't believe it until I saw them do it. If it's a parlor trick, it's a damned good one, and one that has fooled some of the best and most skeptical scientists and businessmen.

But my main point is that, at least for all but .0000001 % of us, this audiophile stuff is complete BS. Some folks are really into it though, and it has its own "science" (or pseudoscience). It's not that they are BSing us, they believe it!

You may find amusing this description of how an AudioQuest K2 speaker cable works. Go to www.audioquest.com, Speaker Cables, DBL Star Quad system, K2. One part I really like is the "conductive dialectric", shown in the drawing. Huh? The only part of this I find credible is that a twisted shielded pair does provide good immunity to EMI - reduces hum. That much I have seen in my own system. Beyond that, I think these guys are in the Twilight Zone. Only $7,000 for a pair of 8 footers!


Metal: Extreme high-purity Perfect-Surface Silver (PSS) minimizes distortion and greatly increases clarity compared to all other conducting materials.
PSS has an astonishingly smooth and pure surface, which, when kept as soft, pure and smooth as possible, becomes the wonderfully low distortion PSC conductor used in many AudioQuest models. PSSs extreme transparency is made possible by applying Perfect Surface Technology to ultra pure solid silver.

SST (Spread Spectrum Technology): Any single size or shape of conductor has a specific distortion profile. SST is a method for significantly reducing the awareness of these character flaws by using a precise combination of different size conductors. The four different SST-determined conductor sizes used in K2 allow an exceptionally clear, clean and dynamic sound.

Dielectric Bias System (DBS) (US patent 7,126,055): Greatly improved performance is made possible by a constant 72 volt charge on all K2s insulation. Similar to how the earth's magnetic field makes all compasses point north, the AQ DBS system creates an electrostatic field which causes the molecules of the insulation to all point in the same direction, minimizing multiple nonlinear time-delays. Sound appears from a surprisingly black background with unexpected detail and dynamic contrast. Because DBS battery packs are attached when K2 cables are assembled, K2 does not require any additional run-in period. Because there is no load on the easily replaceable batteries, they will last for years. A test button and LED allow for occasional verification of battery performance.

[VE2NSM]

but with these wonderful 8 footers, do you hear the distortion caused by the connector? I guess it's a banana plug.
Do you hear the tiny #18 or 20 wire that interconnects the different components in your speaker enclosures?
Do you hear the same crappy #18 guage wire that runs everywhere in the amplifier? the connecting leads of the power transistors? the rosin and the 40/60 solder?

So convenient to forget about it. All this and the tiny flexible cotton filled lead that extends from the cone to the frame of the woofer... ahhh but there's your loss right here!

[AB8RO]

A few such people seem to exist. But, IMHO, very few. I don't know who James Randi is, but some of the people I'm referring to built substantial audio companies and sold them for a hell of a lot more than a million dollars (like 100x that). I didn't believe it until I saw them do it. If it's a parlor trick, it's a damned good one, and one that has fooled some of the best and most skeptical scientists and businessmen.

It is a parlor trick and unless it's controlled it's meaningless.

But my main point is that, at least for all but .0000001 % of us, this audiophile stuff is complete BS.

Almost all of it is BS for everybody. Are monster cables better than mini-zip cord? Yes. Are they better than a heavy duty extension cord with the ends cut off? No. That's the basic test and if you know someone who can tell the difference then send them over to James Randi's million dollar challenge and they can win a million dollars.

At least one person has already backed out of a comparison between $7k+ pear cables and monster cables.

Some folks are really into it though, and it has its own "science" (or pseudoscience). It's not that they are BSing us, they believe it!

No doubt. It's the ultimate do nothing hobby. No skill no output, nothing is required other than to spend money and talk about what you spent your money on.

You may find amusing this description of how an AudioQuest K2 speaker cable works.

Everyone's got $7k cables these day, try some $43k cables on for size.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ente...air-303825.php

[WY6K]

Just what we need! Since my system is bi-amped, I'll have to have two sets!

I wonder how many they actually sell?

[N4AUD]

THAT'S IT ! ! ! My conductors don't get enough EXERCISE ! 'scuse me, I gotta go outside, and short circuit my cable, now ! I KNEW that there was something I wasn't doing right. And all this time, I was blaming the Sunspot cycle for my problems!

You have to get a neighborhood kid to use your cables as a jump rope before you use them!

[KI4NGN]

I've given thought to marketing my super-conducting speaker cables with built-in phase-correlation guarantee molecular circuitry, which makes up for all of the "common" wiring used in all audio equipment. I decided not to because I believed that the market was not ready for them, that the discerning ears were not out there, and that no one would be willing to pay the suggested retail price of $100K per strand.

However, I'm now giving this some second thoughts. Maybe the market is ready!

Mike

[KC0UKR]

What is wrong with you guys?

I promise I can demonstrate the difference between cable for you and you will hear the difference.
That part is simple really.
Deciding what to make of this is entirely another matter.

Many people do prefer the sound of less expensive gear from all sides of the Audio spectrum.This does not make them lesser audiophiles just a little wealthier mostly.

I have been in the business for over 30 years and I have trained myself and been taught to discern these differences. Again what individual people think they add up to is all over the place and we all hear and think differently.

I have to be able to walk into a room and tell certain things quickly to be able to design,install and troubleshoot and of course to SELL the stuff.
This is useful in a Pro/Commercial environment as well as a Home one.

I am not defending or making excuses for any products here but I am saying that there can be tangable differences that you can hear between a lot of them.

Many are clearly over the top and just plain Snake Oil in my opinion but if someone can sell them,more power to them.

I am talking about the real hardware,Speakers,Amps and cables and most people can hear differences.
Most people also want me to tell them what these differences are and they will hear what I tell them they will hear. That is just basic Sales 101.

I try to let the gear sell itself but people just don't have a frame of reference to be able to compare and quantify what they hear.

An interesting observation here also relates to the difference in the sexes.Men want to be told what they will hear and will feel like idiots if they can not hear it.
Women react entirely on an emotional level and frequently will cry when they hear what they like as they are moved by it on an emotional level.

I can not make this #### up,it happens every day.

The real question is what is it worth?
It is different for each of us aside of course from "Cable Baking" and other oddities like that.

I drive Toyota and Honda cars and I am sure I would like a Lexus or Acura better but they are not worth it to me.
I use Icom 7000 and 746 pro radios and I am sure the 7800 is a nicer radio but again,are you crazy,I will not spend that kind of money on a radio.

I do have speakers that cost $14,000 when new and I spent less than 10% on them and it still hurt.
Would you really argue that there can not be any reason to justify this price or that they simply can not be better than many lessor priced speakers?

You are welcome to come by anytime and I will be happy to show you.

If you don't think so good for you,if you do think so.sorry it is hard to forget.

Again let me be clear since I have noticed here a lot of us will just repeat the same thing over and over as if that strengthens their point of view.

There are many just crazy products out marketed to the fringe in any hobby and audio has more than its share. But by the same token there are a lot of products out there that are truly astonishing in the ability to resolve detail and nuance and that are not snake oil they are just beyond sensibility and reason for most.

My favorite retarded product would have to be they leather earcup some idiot had at the CES show years ago.It fit over your ear and acted much like if you cupped your ear with your hand and it was open toward the speakers.His pitch was brilliant,he would have you do what I just described and then say"Can you hear the difference?".
Well you could of course and that is when he asked whih color leather you wanted and collect the money.He sold the crap out of those things and people were walking around the show looking the something off a Star Trek set.

At the same time I sell an nterconnect cable that retail for $15,000 per meter pair.

I have not sold a lot of them but every one who buys them says they are the best thing they have ever bought to improve their system.
Can I tell the difference,absolutely. Would I ever spend that kind of money on a single cable? Not likely but If they are happy,I am happy.

Ed

[W0TKX]

Audio Phreaks are Phunny...

I sold (and spent a bunch of my $) audio gear off and on in the mid 70's to mid 80's... and spent a bunch of time in front of a "board" as "The Nerdy Sound Guy".

Some stuff does sound better, but... "mind the knee" in the price/performance curve.

I made a set of these one afternoon with an Audio Phreak buddy. He was nuts, and wealthy, so I got hired for projects. They worked pretty good, and the Phreak was impressed! More fun than paying for them, we had lots of free CAT5 cable around.

But I wouldn't use them for a stage set...

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