W7CCE Petitons for PRB-1 Modification

Easy to get away from CC&R's and HOA's. DON'T BUY A HOUSE IN A SO-CALLED DEVELOPMENT! Get a private home on a small or large lot or some acreage and put up whatever you want. Buying a house with CCR's is like rentling an apartment - you get a whiny landlord in both instances.

K2WH

 

K9MDJ said

I remember hearing about this from someone versed in the law. What I understand is that if the local government is making the subdivisions use CC&R's to restrict land usage in a way that cannot be restricted through zoning, the CC&R's are effectively zoning because the local government is forcing the restrictions. And what I understand that this leads to is that those sections of the CC&R's are null and void. You would have to check with a ham radio friendly lawyer in your state as to the validity of this. Also, you would have to go to court with adequate proof of these actions to get relief.

If this is truly a pervasive situation that is going on in an area then this petition may be one way out. However, if it is happening it may be hard to provide hard evidence since from my experience local governments that do this are akin to organized crime and tend to cover their tracks well, control the local judiciary, and/or get rid of people trying to find the dirt.

 

Sobering to recall that we're nearing the end of the second decade since Congress preempted deed restrictions for "couch potatoes", while leaving licensees to fend for themselves. Fact is, ARRL pushed hard for relief along these lines, and was at first ignored, and later dismissed by FCC with barely concealed contempt. Apparently, relief must come from the legislatures. Hoping the recently "stripped" DHS study will reappear, so that we can deal with the factual needs of our service, avoiding this rather unbecoming rancor among the haves and the have-nots. K0JS.

 

And it's been said over and over, it's not always possible, convenient or easy to do that. Almost all developments now come with them and there's no way around it. A house without CC-R's is typically more than 30 years old or even much older, or is a replacement home/infill development in an older part of town.

The petition is correct that the Gov't abdicated their responsiblity to the HOA/CC+R's in such a way that a non-covenented NEW home is a rarity.

 

That's great if you can do it. But it's not always practical for many hams.

For one thing, you can only buy real estate that is for sale. Right now there's plenty, but when the market was hot the buyers outnumbered the sellers.

Not everybody has huge resources of cash. Nor can everybody live way out in the country. Things like jobs, schools, family, etc. are all part of the mix.

The days when Dad could put his foot down and say "We're moving to Podunk" are long gone - if indeed they ever existed.

73 de Jim, N2EY

 

HOA rules are not "laws". If they were laws, there would be checks and balances on them.

Not all CC&Rs involve HOAs and vice versa. And there may not be a disclosure requirement.

When I was looking for houses, nobody mentioned CC&Rs to me. I had to ask - and it took some research to find them. In at least some situations, the requirement is that you be told before closing - which means you find out *at* closing.

It's called "freedom" and "individual property rights".

Why is a tower an "eyesore" but a utility pole isn't? Who gets to decide?

What about the ham who doesn't want a tower, just a simple wire antenna that you can hardly see. Why is that not allowed? Why is permission needed for something that is entirely on one's property, is safe and well-maintained, and is hardly visible?

73 de Jim, N2EY

 

Consider why HOAs and CC&Rs exist in the first place, rather than simple nuisance and safety ordinances....

Or they keep mum to avoid being a target of Gladys Kravitz' ire.

Exactly - because compromise requires dialog, thought, and most of all an admission that the other party has rights too.

Exactly. No judgement, no wiggle room, just a flat-out ban.

There are actually many pieces to it:

1) Cable TV folks pushed developers to put in boilerplate "no antennas" rules so everybody would get cable TV.

2) The high mobility of Americans meant a lot of folks come and go rapidly from a neighborhood.

3) The prevalence of divorce and 2-career families means there's often nobody home and relatively little fraternization with the neighbors.

4) The integration of ethnicities, races, religions, income levels, etc., means a lot of people live near folks very different from them - which worries some people. Conformity seems "safe" - but it rarely is.

5) A home is the single biggest investment most people make, and the least liquid. Anything that even hints at damaging "property values" gets some folks worried.

6) The mantra of "small government" has been chanted for over 30 years, and many people have gone for it. But what it means in practical terms is that the HOAs and CC&Rs replace laws and ordinances - and restrict things no law or ordinance could.

7) Architectural styles and building methods have changed in such a way that anything you do is often visible to many neighbors. (When I look at many older neighborhoods around here, I see deep lots with the house up front, meaning a big back yard. I also see fences, trees, shrubberies and other things which make things such as antennas less visible. By contrast, many newer homes sit practically "naked" in the middle of a bare lot, and anything you do is visible from all around.

73 de Jim, N2EY

 

Damian,
We have one, allegedgly...the ARRL. I am a member, but this particular issue, and the league's inaction on it have got me reconsidering renewal. The league has barristers that could be pounding the HOA issue in Washington, but I get the feeling that they don't care too much.

73 Doug

 

Why do you have that feeling?

ARRL pushed PRB-1 for years. They've attempted to get the OTARD ruling extended to amateur radio and been told "NO".

What would you have ARRL do that they are not doing? Remember that HOA rules and CC&Rs are private contracts, not laws.

Consider the resources the ARRL has, and then consider the resources on the other side.

73 de Jim, N2EY

 

I have mixed emotions on this one. On one hand I do not want the federal government any deeper in my life than they already are today. It seems that we are turning to our Uncle Sam to resolve every discontent we have and that is dangerous. I also agree that HOA's are out of control in many cases. I got lucky in the covenents I have to live with is silent on towers and antennas. However, I am sure someone in the neighborhood will someday fuss and get the rest of the sheep in the neighborhood to follow suit. If I were W7CCE I would go to his HOA and argue the values that a Ham Station brings to the neighborhood. Sell the first responder concept and use Joplin MO tornado in 2011 as an example.

I have learned that peoples reluctance to a new concept is borne mostly from ignorance. One of my neighbors thought my Ham Station would blow up their TV until I brought them into the shack and let them see my TV play sitting beside my 100w radio transmitting to Brazil.

Whatever you do, good luck and 73
W9KRD

 

Thanks...thats the smartest thing that has been written here........

 

usually when you have a condo or townhouse with HOA rules..you do not own the outside of the dwelling and land..you own the inside. Put up an antenna inside or in the attic. Thats how it is and thats why I have remote

 

Many posters are under the misconception that if you sign a contract then too bad, you have to live with your mistake. That is incorrect!

The law of the land in the U.S. is the government may modify or cancel a private contract if it is in the greater public interest. Extending PRB-1 is not a power grab by the government -- the power is already there. This was decided a long time ago by the Supreme Court. Google Nebbia v. New York.

In fact, if it can be shown that CCR's truly interfere with the public interest, then the FCC has a duty to address the situation and extend PRB-1. If you don't like the government interfering with private contracts then you need to go to Congress and have them undo 80 years of laws and court decisions. The law is on the ham's side here. The challenge is political as it will be difficult to overcome opposition from the real estate industry.

Many thanks to W7CCE for taking action on this important issue.

 

Here in Long Island, New York, some developments incorporate themselves into villages and codify their HOA rules thereby making them law. The enforcement function is usually performed by the local code enforcement guys or constables, however, any sworn LEO can do so as well. Sadly, there are many examples of "rules & regs" taking on the form of law sans checks and balances. I can think of at least two 3-letter agencies right off the bat.

Vy 73 de Bert
WA2SI

 

In this part of Texas the developers are doing most of the building and there is no suitable housing in a decent school district without a HOA and its restrictive rules I get letters for leaving a bag with grass clippings out too far in advance of trash day. The HOA pays folks to drive around and find "violations". Antennas are not allowed for anything but satellite reception and I'm forced to view all these roof warts! A simple wire antenna kept below the roof line would be welcome indeed. Mine is hiding among the palm trees in fear!

73 - Hal