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USA exams system endorsed by ACMA

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by G4TUT/SK2022, Sep 27, 2019.

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  1. G4TUT/SK2022

    G4TUT/SK2022 Ham Member QRZ Page

    USA exams system endorsed by ACMA
    WIA reports Australia's communications regulator ACMA is reinstating the reciprocal arrangement for US amateur radio licence holders

    The WIA story says:
    The ACMA contacted the WIA on 23 September 2019 to advise that they are reinstating the reciprocal arrangement for US licence holders.

    The reinstatement follows a period of suspension of reciprocity precipitated by a complainant objecting to the granting of VK licences. The WIA believes that irrespective of the motivations of the complainant to raise their objections, the impact of the suspension was only to increase barriers to entry to Amateur Radio in Australia, and was most unhelpful. Hence the WIA is pleased that this restriction has been now lifted.

    Note the reciprocal licence is valid only for 12 months from issue and the ACMA advised it cannot be renewed or extended unless the recipient passes the local regulations examination. Here is the background:

    Read the full story at
    https://www.wia.org.au/newsevents/news/2019/20190924-1/index.php


    http://www.southgatearc.org/news/2019/september/usa-exams-system-endorsed-by-acma.htm

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  2. VK3VM

    VK3VM XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    This is actually HEAVILY misreported and misrepresented - sourced from The Wireless Institute of Australia (The WIA) - The former contractor for licensing and assessment in Australia.

    What has ACTUALLY occurred is that The ACMA has reinstated and clarified arrangements with regards to "reciprocal" arrangements with regards to ANY overseas operator with NON AUSTRALIAN QUALIFICATIONS that present their qualifications for Australian Licenses - and that is not just US Licenses involved.

    What the ACMA has determined is that anyone from outside Australia can use the "reciprocal" agreement to obtain a licence under their "Table A" (and refer to the ACMA website for this) of equivalencies for a period NOT EXCEEDING 12 MONTHS.

    After the 12 month period the licence will sunset; If the licensee wants to keep their Australian Licence then they must either apply for a RPL for their qualification, and then sit Australian Regulations and Practical, or they must take the cheaper option of sitting for the qualification from scratch.

    The excitement within the Australian Amateur Community with regards to taking assessment for US Licenses has unfortunately masked and distorted reality; the ACMA's decision making activity must be applauded - although it has taken 15 years and a lot of grief for them to finally act.

    You will be able to confirm what I have stated above by contacting The ACMA and Licence Administrative Provider - The AMC - as I have :)
     
  3. VK3VM

    VK3VM XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Just to clarify my position with The VE Licensing issue and obtaining a VE Licence - I am EXCEPTIONALLY KEEN to undertake assessment in the US system if not become a VE Examiner myself... Yet to do so it would mean that I would have to list a "false" address (i.e. a place where I do not live/operate from or re-mail my licence from) on documentation to obtain the licence.

    When I can list my home address on the licence I will gladly and with expedience take assessment for a US licence and will apply for a Vanity Call as many Australians have done.
     
    VK6NO likes this.
  4. VK3DQ

    VK3DQ XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Hi Steve

    Well done for your insightful clarification of this issue .. you are 100% correct

    Regards John VK3DQ (10 years WIA Assessor)
     
  5. VK6NO

    VK6NO Ham Member QRZ Page

    It is now out of control that people do falsify address details to obtain these calls.
    It seems so easy for the ACMA to actually check to see if the application is from an Australian citizen or from a genuine overseas reciprocal licence application.
    It is a shame that the Assessors in Australia are being ignored by some as they are doing a wonderful job in helping new hams to obtaining a licence.

    Cheers Lindsay VK6NO
     
    VK6ATS likes this.
  6. N0TZU

    N0TZU Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Why do many Australians want US calls?
     
  7. VK3VM

    VK3VM XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Firstly Lindsay,

    I believe that if someone approaches with an International Passport with an international home address and that passport matches the country of origin of the licence that there will be no issues in applying the reciprocity agreements as I have described accurately (i.e. UK Licence, UK/EU Passport = Accepted/Ok). Let's not single out The USA at this point as rulings are for ALL internationals and not just USA as I corrected above !

    On the other hand, an Australian resident and/or citizen presenting a licence that does not provide or make reference back to an actual home/operational address could be supporting a false declaration - both at law and under Australian RPL standards. Reciprocity arrangements only applies to visiting Amateurs and not Residents or Citizens. Reciprocity arrangements were never designed internationally to circumvent another nation's laws. "

    It is my understanding that our administrative provider has advice not to put the client and themselves (and their academic reputation) at risk by processing such applications. Concerns on this front should be taken up (and with complete and full disclosure and honesty) with both The AMC and ACMA.

    I am just an assessor that has stuck my nose into the process to make sure that I am informed; I am conveying my understanding and I have made extensive inquiry on these matters.

    Yet since last week interpretations and directions may have changed. Ask the ACMA and AMC and with complete respect please under the HAM - Help All Mankind - principles and codes that we all should be adhering to. The staff at the AMC have been abused treated ABYSMALLY by many Amateurs and without any blame on their part. It is not their fault that The WIA did not get the assessment contract back so do not abuse them (as many Amateurs have done).

    Rather than abuse staff please express concerns in writing so that they are on record and forward via appropriate channels. Email addresses for politicians and ACMA Departments can be easily found or are easily decoded. AMC contacts are on their website. Be careful as some in our own ranks have been particularly nasty and I believe that legal tolerance points have been reached (Ask the WIA more about this as they recently met with The AMC "in secret" to discuss perceived issues).

    And Bob,

    The puristic reason is that it is easier when working in other nations (i.e visiting or dxpeditions) to obtain licenses and sometimes permits to operate when you present a US license. Some remote stations only accept US callsigns.

    Yet how many out there are keen dxpeditioners and will actually every use licenses in The US or for this purpose? I know from visiting the US and working over there that people MUCH prefer W3/Vk3VM rather than local calls as it generates considerably greater excitement and interest around locals !

    There are quite a number of other ethically challenging reasons suggested by many based around perceptions of corruption, anger, bruised egos, trying to circumvent systems, be big fish in small ponds, be "perceived as a special amateur" in the AR world and undermine change that would be inappropriate and inflammatory to discuss here and in the open. Drop me an email and I am prepared to elaborate my assessment in a constructive fashion (as a 10 year assessor veteran with 300+ assessments under my belt) if I get time and the bands remain largely closed as they are now !!!

    73

    Steve I
    VK3VM / Vk3SIR
     
    N0TZU likes this.
  8. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Except that you do not have to falsify anything. My US address is a real address and satisfies US law for obtaining a US license. As for how great VK assessors are, well that would depend on where you live and how lucky you are. My experience was not so great. I could not find any assessors prepared to add me to exam sessions they might have already been running, other than 1 who wanted to interview me to see if I was the kind of person he thought should be a radio amateur. So let him know in no uncertain terms that I was getting a ham radio licence not joining Scientology and he could stuff his interview right up his arse. His job as an assessor was to assess my proficiency in amateur radio, not my morality and ethics.

    I was then told in 1 week there was a US exam being run in Brisbane, i contacted them and within an hour i was booked in to sit an exam for a license i had not studied for, went and passed tech and general.

    Thing under AMC are better and not the old boys club that was often the case with the WIA. Also, i do not want to go to a club and sit a class, I wish to learn in my own time and then find an exam time and sit the exams when i am ready. I work, i have family and i do not have time to spend months sitting in classes. Times have changed, the expectation of people have changed along with it. In that regard, the US system is a much better one for anyone who lives in the modern world as there are great tools online to help you be prepared for exam day. No clubs involved.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
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  9. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Its a better license to have for operating overseas with. Its a better system of study to obtain a license with the online study guides and the like. Where as in VK you either have to attend a club for 6 months assuming they run courses or you have to make your own way through the syllabus to understand the material.

    Anyway the acma have green lighted things again with the addition that VK locals have to sit both VK practical and VK regulations to RPL via an overseas qualification.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
    N0TZU likes this.
  10. VK3DQ

    VK3DQ XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Hi Folks

    The only issue I had was when a few people used a loophole to obtain full Australian licenses by presenting the technician grade license which is / was equivalent to our foundation license but due to lack of action by the ACMA was listed as being equivalent to a full call, this was deliberate manipulation of the system ...Cheating ... whilst within the law it was a despicable action

    As an assessor for ten years with aprox 1000 exams under my belt I had given of my time to try to help as many people as possible to gain their qualifications I was part of a small group here in Melbourne that conducted totally free upgrade courses and in particular courses for Women to gain their Foundation and other licenses.
    so you may be able to understand that any indication that people were cheating was most upsetting

    I'm no longer an assessor due to ill health I have a spinal condition that makes walking difficult and have recently undergone heart surgery but I can say with pride that every exam I conducted was honest and I did my best for all candidates and it gives me great pleasure to hear them on the air

    Regards
    John Fisher VK3DQ (ex WIA 10 year Assessor)
     
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  11. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    The number of people who used Tech to obtain VK Adv was small, the number i heard thrown about was 10. 10 out of 10,000 licenses is not statistically significant. And as soon as ACMA was made aware of this, they reviewed it and made tech the equal of foundation. At the time, you had to travel to the USA and sit the exams there as there were no VK US exams. So someone spend upwards of 5 grand to backdoor a license that costs what $300 to do and sit here. Only the truly desperate would go to such extreme lengths to cheat a system that for the most part is not all that hard.

    What is missing in the VK system are the online study tools to allow people to study in their own time at their own pace. Oh there are some books that I found are as good as useless and that is about it unless you have the time to sit in a class at a club. Something many people dont. Most of my study and research time is done after 9pm at night while im lying in bed. Something no club can cater for LOL. Hobbies fit in and around my life, I have no desire to change my life just to suit my hobby. I am not the kind of guy who is going to walk to school uphill both ways in the snow with no shoes.

    I hope you get well soon OM.
     
  12. VK3KTT

    VK3KTT XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    My problem with the current system is that you dont find out whether you passed or not on the day and have to wait 2 weeks for the result, plus if you find out you failed on the day yo can just pay another $22 not $99 and resit on the same day i obtained my advanced licences via the the reciprical licence with my us extra the other reason for going this way was they study materials for the US system are much more comprehensive i was able to study using the app hamstudy.org which drilled me in each and every question avaliable it also provided the back up to technically understand what i was learning. it also showed me where my strengths and weaknesses were unlike the current and former vk licencing methods which run some short courses and expect you to read and understand the material and guess which questions will be answered. I have no intention of opening up my radio to fix it or to build home brew gear.
    Putting so much negativity is to one method of assessment creates barriers for people to join and enjoy this great hobby. I'm about getting people licenced and on the air thats what we should all be striving for. If we look like a group of squabbling school children the ACMA wont take us seriously and will continue to take bands away from us.
    I think this is great win for our hobby i have many people in my local area who will get licensed through this method but would never consider going to the other way as it was too hard.
    we need to look to the future of this hobby not at the past.
     
  13. KM4FVI

    KM4FVI Ham Member QRZ Page

    Interesting, I received my VK5 reciprocal license while living in Woomera several years ago. I held that call sign for two years. All I did was sent a current copy of my Advanced US FCC license in and within two weeks had my reciprocal ticket. I loved living in Australia and I appreciated the quick efforts to allow me to have a station I’m in Woomera, SA.

    Frank
     
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  14. K7JEM

    K7JEM Ham Member QRZ Page

    One thing to consider is that in the USA, the percentage of hams in the general population is around .23%, which isn't all that high. But if the numbers being mentioned for hams in Australia are correct, then there are only 10,000 hams in the entire country. With a population of 24.6 million people, that puts the percent of hams at .04%, or around 1/6 of the percentage that we have here. That seems pretty low to me, it has never been that low in the USA for over 60 years or more, AFAIK.

    Granted, the US system makes it easy to study for the test, and take the exam, but that doesn't account for the wide discrepancy of the numbers, for two countries that are similar in very many ways. Is license testing all that difficult, or are there other barriers to people getting licensed?
     
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  15. VK3VM

    VK3VM XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Your numbers are relatively accurate (The WIA told me 18) - but that's 10 too many ! Numbers are immaterial; that is "10" people who have "loopholed" recognised competency.

    That is "10" people who have diminished and set back the ENTIRE Amateur Radio Community - and not just Australian Amateurs are we are an International Community.

    The issue was reported time and time and time again over the last 15 years by MANY Assessors.

    Clearly efforts to close loopholes have been "stymied" or just hit brick walls when reported to The ACMA. And why is this? This is not the place to make allegation.

    Yet that is what can happen or be perceived to happen when you have a political body (rather than an independent body as we have now) managing administrative affairs of regulated activities.

    Every known "loophole" exploited drags us down and diminishes and disrespects the hard work that many others have had to go through - those that have worked their butt off and have genuinely met standards via intended pathways.

    Yet the ACMA chooses to grandfather in rather than regulate. The ACMA claims that it does not have "powers" - but that is completely garbage.

    The ACMA is too scared to use its reassessment power that it has in The Radiocommunications Act (1992) . It can reassess any Licence - Amateur or otherwise - at ANY TIME and for ANY/WITHOUT REASON. That is one of the conditions that ANY licence is granted under in this country. The word "reassess" is a broad and powerful term.

    This power can be used to "fix" perceptions of competency issues - as well as fixing those to be perceived as recalcitrant among us. i.e. The behavioral problems or those that violate terms and conditions can have licenses suspended until a successful reassessment is completed through the administrative provider's processes. And this provides both inconvenience and cost. That is how people learn to behave.

    The power has been there since 1992 but has been seldom if ever used. Why does it not use it to keep our spectrum regulated - especially when most prosecutorial efforts with regards to those with licenses have failed?

    Legal prosecution can then be used to deal with those that do not have rights (i.e. licenses) that are clearly unable to challenge legally if found to be contravening laws.

    Likewise these people that have exploited loopholes could be subject, and effectively without reason, to reassessment in order to respect all the hard work that the clear vast majority have gone through to obtain their rights and privileges.

    The ACMA rulings last week clearly and definitively close-off these "international licensing" anomalies and with simplicity (that some elements appear to be trying to hijack - see the lead story). So well done on this front ACMA - but its been far too long/late in coming! From comments that John VK3DQ has posted they still have more work to do I suggest.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019

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