Time Honored Protocol Ignored--or are some hams unaware?

Discussion in 'Discussions, Opinions & Editorials' started by N7WR, Jan 22, 2013.

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  1. N7WR

    N7WR Subscriber QRZ Page

    This has happened to me multiple times over the past month and it is something I have rarely seen in my 58 years on the air. I privately e-mailed the hams involved but decided to post this here since it seems some hams are unaware of what many of us believe to be a time honored protocol. Maybe this will help educate.

    Here's the scenario. I am working stations on 40 meters (SSB) in the early evening--something I do most nights. Rag chew rather than rapid fire QSO's. Usually on 7210 or above to avoid the congestion down below. It is not unusual for me to have 5-6 QSO's with different hams over a 1-1 1/2 hour period. As QSO's finish I say thanks and I'm going to work a few more before going QRT for the evening.

    Now I know that no one "owns" a frequency. But if I have been making a series of contacts on the same frequency for a period of time and when signing off with my last QSO plainly say I will call CQ again I don't really expect that if the station I am signing with gets a call from someone that he will assume the frequency is now his. After all this isn't the Sprint Contest! Sometimes the station I am signing with gets a call from someone (who wants a signal report or needs that operator's state for WAS) and I'll stand by while they have a brief contact. Most often the station I have just worked will make the contact with the staion calling him/her but say something like It is N7WR's frequency let's keep it short or QSY. We've all done that and over my years as a ham that seems to have always been the informal protocol.

    Well recently there have been multiple instances of the station that answered my CQ taking the frequency over when we were done and just assuming he could work as many as he wanted to for as long as he wanted. Again, I realize I don't own a frequency. When this has happened I have either found another frequency to call CQ or have just decided to go QRT.

    Tel me if I am wrong but this "practice" I have described runs counter to operating procedures that have existed for decades. Maybe newer hams just don't know???
  2. W7UUU

    W7UUU Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Wow - you have a LOT more audible 40m SSB activity every night than I do! I can listen for
    hours and not hear a soul unless it's contest weekend, in which case I can hear all 50 states
    and can't find a place to call CQ if my life depended on it!

    I'd just move along and find a new place to call were it me.

  3. W5BIB

    W5BIB Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I think it's just today's "lack of consideration" found in all facets of life. Too many folks just take "things" for granted. I operate 'bout 99% CW but, like you, if a fellow was already "camped out" on a freq & I found him,... after "our" QSO & someone called me, It's just plain "consideration" to move up or down a couple of kc's (yes, kc's...I'm "old school")... (he shrugs his shoulders)... I really think it's lack of ELMER(ship). Ya gotta remember,... when we started (usually as a 1 year non-renewable Novice) we had more experienced operators to look up to & emulate.... what'cha gonna do... All ya can really do, is try to set an example.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  4. NN4RH

    NN4RH Subscriber QRZ Page

    So basically your gripe is that your 58 years in the hobby entitles you to hold 7.210 MHz for as long as you want it, that you are only sort of "loaning" the frequency to "newer hams" (I.e. no-code hams) and you expect to have it back ?

    I dont get it. Are you rock-bound?

    I always figured that whoever ends the QSO is the one giving up the frequency, no matter who was there first.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  5. N5TGL

    N5TGL XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Heck, I've been calling CQ, work the guy....and then he starts calling CQ after we finish! Glad I could warm up the frequency for ya, buddy! I've had that happen twice, and I just sat there with my mouth hung open.

    Other times, other people call the worked station, and they generally say "QSY up 5" or similar. Sometimes they ask if they can work them real quick on frequency, which I'm happy to oblige. I don't like when they just move in and stay. It's like you're sitting in a chair and someone walks in, picks you up and tosses you on the floor and then sits in the chair. What else can you do other than sit on the floor and wonder what the heck just happened?
  6. W5BIB

    W5BIB Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    'HJW... Code, no code has nothing to do with it. It's a simple thing called "ETIQUETTE". look it up.:rolleyes:
  7. N7WR

    N7WR Subscriber QRZ Page

    You obviously either didn't read or didn't understand the post. Read N5TGL's comments which followed yours. He understands the point. As I said twice in my OP I totally understand that neither I nor anyone else "owns" a frequency. But if you have been around awhile and paid attention to commonly accepted operating practices you know that what I have described has not been acceptable practice for at least as long as I've been licensed.
  8. AE1P

    AE1P XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Well, I do get it, Steve, as it has also happened to me several times.
    Rude?..yes, but, i suppose nothing to get worked up about,and move
    on... In the "Good Ol" days, the other op would have stated that the frequency
    wasn't his,and move the calling station up 5, but, alas, now its a free for all, no manners, and
    anything goes.
    Good to know that their are those, like yourself, who were taught a different way.
  9. K9XR

    K9XR Ham Member QRZ Page

    This used to be the "gentlmen's hobby" but it has changed. It used to have a lot of time honored procedures, traditions, and protocols. Some think they have outlived their usefulness and don't make any sense in today's world. I know it is not just this hobby, but the world in general that is changing, and in my opinion, certainly not for the better. I can undrstand your desire to teach newcomers, but it might already be too late. Back when we started we had a different way to enter this hobby. We most likely would start out as a novice and if nothing else we would do a lot of listening before our license even hit the mailbox and we would have a pretty good idea of what we can expect in the real world of ham radio. These days, someone gets interested in radio one day and passes their license exam (or exams) the next and they are ready to get on the air. Back in the day we would go to our "elmers" house and observe and maybe even participate a little to get the feel for what it is about. I can remember going to Field Day before I was licensed and learnig a great deal just by watching and listening.

    In these days of Quantity over Quality, nobody seems to care what happens in the real world of ham radio. And yes, even the ARRL is a party to the differences of how people start out. They are so anxious to recruit new members and swell the numbers that they too have compromised the basic being of this hobby. I realize that they are really all thet we have fighting for us, but it seems like their focus has sure changed from getting Quality to getting Quantity. They are big supporters of the EMCOM thing and I just don't get it. For many years hams have always tken the lead in emergency sitiuations and have given help when ever and where ever it was needed. I don't think it is neccessary to promote EMCOM as the main reason for entering ham radio, but that seems to be the direction they have taken. They always tout the ever increasing numbers of licensed amateurs, but they never seem to mention that we lose hams nearly as fast as we gain them and I don't mean just by hams becoming silent keys. Look at the numbers of hams that are either close to having expired licenses or are already expired. I think a lot of folks get into it and then are disappointed that it is not what they thought it was. Maybe if they had had a little more exposure to the hobby before they took their test they would know if the hobby is for them or not. They would also have an idea of what was expected of them instead of getting on the air and not having a clue about rules or procedure. Yeah, there a few that try to change things to be like some other service they may have had experience with and don't care at all about tradition and protocol, but for the most part it is just a lack of learning the right way to do things. This problem is only going to get worse with time unless we again have some form of entry training into the hobby and I don't see that happening anytime soon.

    On edit, Geez am I a slow typist. I sart with no other posts and come back and there are 5 more. sorry if I repeated anything already said.

  10. NN4RH

    NN4RH Subscriber QRZ Page

    The OP is the one who brought "newer hams" into it. Where does it say that "newer hams" are any less entitled to any frequency than anyone else?
  11. NN4RH

    NN4RH Subscriber QRZ Page

    I read the post. It is clear enough that DO you think you own the frequency and it just burns you something awful that you have to share the bands with "newer hams".

    The whole post was just to set up another attack on "newer hams".
  12. W4PG

    W4PG Super Moderator Staff Member QRZ Page

    WR you are exactly correct.

    I work a lot of 40 meters and often get nice runs going on the evening into Europe. No one who answers a CQ should take over the frequency unless the person who originally called CQ makes it clear to the other station that it's OK to continue on frequency.

    I usually make a point of saying, "Thanks for the QSO. There were a few others calling and I'd like to give them a report as well. 73 and take care. W4PG QRZ." That makes it clear I intend on staying right there!

    Just yesterday I answered a CQ and talked to a DX station. At the end of the QSO, someone called me. Since it wasn't my frequency, I quickly said, "the station calling W4PG up 5 please." He moved up and we made contact, no problem.

    It's called common courtesy and should be the practice of all hams.

  13. AE1P

    AE1P XML Subscriber QRZ Page


    Attached Files:

  14. KC9UDX

    KC9UDX Subscriber QRZ Page

    Why is this a bad thing? I'd assume everyone was, just for the sake of being polite.
  15. W7UUU

    W7UUU Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    If that were the case, the poor guy in the "where have all the crystals gone" thread wouldn't have a point...


  16. N7SMI

    N7SMI XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I think it is an education thing and also a matter of courtesy. A lot of new operators wouldn't know the proper procedures for moving someone to another frequency. There were 3 times in this last weekend's NAQP when I worked a station that was calling CQ and someone else quickly called me wanting my state. Because I was doing S&P, I was always watching where the next and previous stations were in the band display and would quickly say "K1XXX, Up 2" (or "Down 3" or whatever) and meet them there for a quick exchange.
  17. W7UUU

    W7UUU Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I also think that "times they are a changin'" - none of this is in the FCC rules... it's tradition. I hear
    crazy variations on tradition all the time - CW CQ calls as an example - CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ
    CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ de W7XYX CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ CQ K" as just one example of something I
    heard recently. The "three by three" CQ rule I learned in the 70s? Unknown today to a lot of folks.
    But I'm GLAD that newbies are trying CW - even if their CQ standards are weird to me.

    It's an evolution. Unless codified in the FCC rules and required for compliance, I really think that
    as time goes on, whatever works, works. Us old farts, with decades of "that's how we did it
    for decades" will just move aside, and let the new traditions take over.

    Just my 2 cents... flame me if you wish - I'm an old fart and don't much care :)

  18. AE1P

    AE1P XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Tell me if I am wrong but this "practice" I have described runs counter to operating procedures that have existed for decades. Maybe newer hams just don't know???

    To get back on track, and actually answer your question, Steve, I would say most of the time,that they don't know...now, Why not?
    Maybe the "Ham-in-a-day" class is leaving out the proper procedure and protocols, plus, I'm willing to bet their missing out on
    what was once,one of the most important aspects of ham radio...Listen, Listen, Listen...which is why most know what courtesy
    and proper procedure is...
  19. W5BIB

    W5BIB Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    ... R e a d these letters;... "E T I Q U E T T E" Look 'em up..... IF you can comprehend the definition you find,...:confused: Maybe you won't feel so "persecuted".:( New or old... we're all hams aren't we?????????? It doesn't matter if you are "know code" or "no code"... JEEZ,... don't take everything so personal:rolleyes: ...It's a H O B B Y dude...
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  20. KC9UDX

    KC9UDX Subscriber QRZ Page

    Actually, it's the other way round. I'm in the same boat. It's very hard to QSY with a limited selection of XTALs. I happen to be currently limited to one on six:confused: I have yet to be in a position there where it mattered much though, and if it ever does, that means six is not dead, and that's great!
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