Think twice about dealing with KJ0L

Discussion in 'Ham to Ham References' started by W4RLR, May 25, 2009.

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  1. W4RLR

    W4RLR Ham Member QRZ Page

    Joe Leto, KJ0L iisted a Mac Mini computer with accessories last week on the 'Zed. I responded within an hour of his posting. I sent him an e-mail telling him I would send money via PayPal to his XYL's PayPal account as he requested when I returned home. I did so, he and his wife received notification of funds transfer and I thought the MacMini I paid for was on its way.

    Instead, I get an e-mail from PayPal on Sunday afternoon saying my payment had been refused by his wife and the payment was being returned.

    I guess that KJ0L, a ham of supposed 27 years tenure, does not know the meaning of a contract. I don't know and at this point I will cease to care when my funds return to my bank account.

    I would NOT recommend purchasing ANYTHING from Joe Leto. A simple explanation as to why he called off the sale would have been appreciated and would have done much to soothe the hard feelings I have regarding this transaction, but it appears he doesn't feel an explanation is necessary.

    Common courtesy and honor dictates otherwise.
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  2. K8ERV

    K8ERV Ham Member QRZ Page

    Did you pay by a credit card? If so, and he has a personal PayPal account (not a business acct) you will get this message cause PP doesn't accept cards on such. Probabably cause that costs them a fee. This has happened many times to me, and it is a bit mysterious.

    You just have to contact the seller and arrange for a different form of payment.

    TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo
  3. KA9MOT

    KA9MOT Ham Member QRZ Page

    I have had the good fortune to speak to Joe many times on his repeater when I traveled through Des Moines.
    Joe has done a huge amount for Amateur Radio as well as it's operators in his area. I believe he is a man of good character.
    Besides, what are you out except a little time? PayPal is returning your funds. They kept $790 of mine, because PayPal sux.

    I think your gripe should be with PayPal.
  4. KC2UOZ

    KC2UOZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    I wouldn't be complaining. You got your money back. Be happy you didn't get scammed.
  5. KU5Q

    KU5Q Ham Member QRZ Page

    Think twice about posting on list until you find out what happened.

    Your funds were returned.

    You should deal directly with the seller "off list" and find out what really happened before giving a seller a bad rating. Many people have busy lives outside of the internet & email. Besides the fact that there are no guarantees when dealing with strangers on the internet, and you are dealing "in the blind", I've found on many occasions, there was a simple, honest mistake on behalf of either the seller, or buyer, or both.

    Perhaps you have not found out yet why your money was returned, but at least it was. Realize that there are risks involved in dealing on the internet with anyone. A seller being a ham for 27 years doesn't mean anything about a seller, or buyers integrity.

    Be careful, and protect your interests, especially when it comes to your money. Keep your expectations of the world, and especially people you don't know very, very low. That way, you won't be so disappointed when things don't go the way you want.

    I hope you get everything worked out.

  6. KU5Q

    KU5Q Ham Member QRZ Page

    Wow, really?

    Hopefully this won't derail this thread.

    What happened?

    I've never had a problem with pay pal. They have even got my money back from a seller that never came across with the merchandise I paid for. HRO, Gigaparts, Pietro Begali, and many, many other visible merchants accept pay pal, and I have bought quite a bit of merchandise from them. HRO is a fair sized outfit, and it would seem if pay pal is really bad they would not use them.

    Tell us what happened?


  7. KW7RF

    KW7RF Ham Member QRZ Page


    :mad: :mad: PAYPAL SUCKs ! ! :mad: :mad:
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2009
  8. KA9MOT

    KA9MOT Ham Member QRZ Page

    In 2002 my family and I moved to Minnesota from Illinois. My paypal account was linked to our bank account in Illinois and I opened a PayPal account in my wife's name and linked it to our bank in MN. I sold a bunch of computer stuff on eBay and those who paid by paypal payed my account. To save time, I transferred the money to my wife's account so I could drive across town and withdraw it from the bank instead of writing my bank in Illinois and waiting for a check. Paypal saw this as a reason to freeze both accounts. I never got a dime back.

    Check the link I posted and you'll find that paypal loves to steal money.
  9. KU5Q

    KU5Q Ham Member QRZ Page

    This does not add up to make sense.

    What are you not telling us? Outright, and flagrant theft is a serious accusation. For convenience, my wife and I have each a pay pal account. We have transferred a lot of money at different times between pay pal accounts, and our banks. Zero problems with any transactions to date.

    And again, if visible merchants like HRO, Gigaparts, HI-Q Antennas, and the list is longer, were to have problems with pay pal, they would not use them. As convenient as pay pal is, they must have thousands of dollars worth of transactions through pay pal.

    Thanks for your reply.

  10. N4ZTA

    N4ZTA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Paypal isn't all a bed of roses guys

    Paypal is a necessary evil of doing business online.
    They escape many Federal banking laws because they are a "money transfer service" and are licensed as such in most states. The rules are different for these operations (Western Union, etc) and they basically view every customer as a criminal IF any transactions fall on their fraud dept. "radar" such as:

    -Transferring large sums of money to the same person/entity
    -have any chargebacks from buyers even if the buyer is a scammer
    -multiple accounts tied to the same bank
    -Ebay transaction paid with PP results in neg feedback
    -any reason they want to make up

    As a money service they can hold funds up to 6 months, while they "investigate". They will have you jump through hoops, keep requesting "more information" asking you to fax utility bills, receipts from where you obtained the goods you sold, proof of your identity, etc. It is nothing more than a stall tactic, all this time Paypal is earning interest on your funds! When you threaten to sue them or report them to your state's AG, they blow you off.
    It is all a game to them because at this point, they are convinced YOU are a crook until you force their hand.

    The only way to get your money is to actually file a suit in small claims in your jurisdiction or file a case with law enforcement, get the media involved, etc...then your account becomes unfrozen. Amazing how that happens.

    Paypal is not the customer friendly giant many of you are convinced they are. They charge a pretty hefty fee to receive payments and their terms of service spell out all they can do and much of it is borderline absurd. You also agree to arbitration and agree NOT to use your CC chargeback, or, you guessed it- they will freeze your account, turn you over to a collection agency, attempt to put a negative account rating on your credit. These are not nice guys, they are a company out to nickel and dime you to death.

    For many of us who occasionally sell items online or Ebay, it doesn't make sense to go out and open up a REAL merchant account which offers sellers much better protection of fraudulent chargebacks, and are run by REAL banks who answer to the Feds and have to abide by more strict banking regulations, and are about serving their customers, not screwing them over- and rates are generally better. If you plan on selling online or Ebay, consider shopping your local banks or credit unions to see if they offer credit card merchant accounts. Avoid Paypal if at all possible.

    To the OP: is your Paypal ship to address unconfirmed? Paypal doesn't protect sellers who ship to unconfirmed addresses for non-Ebay transactions, many people (myself included) have their PP account setup to refuse payments from non-US buyers, or buyers who don't have a confirmed ship to address. Not saying that is what happened, but it is possible. There is another side to this story.
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