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The overthrow of the 15 dB rule

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by W8MQW, Apr 29, 2016.

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  1. N1JBS

    N1JBS Ham Member QRZ Page

    You cannot let out that "Genie Smoke"
     
  2. KB2OEV

    KB2OEV Ham Member QRZ Page

    There are already more than enough laws on the books, but we have a government that can't/won't enforce them. Hence the CB like problems on all the Amateur bands.
     
  3. N5XO

    N5XO Ham Member QRZ Page

    Everyone is still 100% missing the point. Nothing in the original article or request by Expert Amps has anything to do with increasing power. This thread has been unbelievableā€¦.
     
    KC9UDX, W4HM, KC8ERN and 1 other person like this.
  4. SA1CKE

    SA1CKE Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I'm not sure that this is a real problem since there are 100W SDRs available too, so the limit may be a moot point.
     
  5. W4HM

    W4HM XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I have read all of the replies in this thread and the semi illiteracy and lack of reading comprehension is just shocking. It's embarrassing how much hamateur radio has devolved in the past 25 years.

    Maybe the FCC already looks at the amateur radio hobby like it does CB.
     
    KV6O and KC8ERN like this.
  6. KC8ERN

    KC8ERN Ham Member QRZ Page

    This is only about how much power you can gain from one stage of a commercial amp. It has nothing to do with anything else but that. There is no way this will effect how anyone uses things illegally. It will still be illegal for them to us it. Legal limit will still be 1.5Kw.

    This will only allow people to drive amps to full legal limit with less power. It would result in cleaner signals do to less stages. People that want to misuse the amps will do so rule or no rule and it will still be illegal

    The amp they advertise are assembled in Italy maybe made there I have no idea. They also do not seem to be bankrupt.
     
    KD8JMQ, W4HM, N9AS and 1 other person like this.
  7. KC9UDX

    KC9UDX Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    They are asking to make it legal to help us out!
     
  8. WB2JIX

    WB2JIX XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Tom, PERFECT comment! That's why you only need a #2 pencil and to fill in the circles on the exam. ;-)
    Brian
     
    W4HM likes this.
  9. KJ4ZWA

    KJ4ZWA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Only if all other sources of noise were eliminated. In the city, most of the noise on HF is not caused by hams. Limiting everyone to five watts, but not looking at all of the factors would not be good.


    And as far as the 15dB rule goes, if someone wants to make a 1mw transceiver and boost it to high power with a single amp, go ahead. Just because it is allowed doesn't mean that everyone will do it.

    Good operating ethics would help everyone. No doubt about that. But changing the 15dB rule will not change people, it will just change (a little bit) what people can legally do.

    I like low power. It is just what I do. But if someone else wants to have a tiny flea power radio going into a SINGLE amplifier to boost it to legal limit, that will be their own choice.

    Reasons for the 15dB rule to be removed:
    1.) it will allow people to have a single amp, not a daisy chain. Which leads to
    2.) it will reduce energy consumption
    3.) it will allow for new experimentation with amplifier design and advancing technology

    Reasons against changing it:
    1.) this is the way we've always done it.
    2.) it will enable "anyone" to get a cheap amp to talk loud (please get a better antenna first)
    3.) somehow an advance in technology will instantly change ham radio into CB

    Let me know if I am wrong, but a 15 dB amp will only take a one watt signal to 31.623 watts. Whereas a 30 dB amp would take it to 1 KW.

    Or, a half watt transmitter with a 15 dB amp would yield 15.81 watts, but at 30 dB would yield 500. It would definitely clean up transceiver design if you could have just ONE amp stage to get to your desired power level.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
    W4HM likes this.
  10. K4DJM

    K4DJM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Does anybody get that the semiconductors used in the modern solid state amplifiers have 25 to 28dB of gain at HF, and the amplifier manufacturers currently need to THROW THAT GAIN AWAY to be legal? This means that when your rig delivers 48 watts into that "15dB" amplifier, the amplifier is dissipating 40+ of those watts as additional heat at the input.

    It seems that amplifiers would gain reliability and run cooler if we drove them with the power that they needed and without the excess.

    During real emergency OPs, it would be nice to save that wasted power to be kinder to the battery system.

    To the QRP guys screaming "no need": I doubt you are doing DX on 80M or 160M in the summertime. I operate barefoot at 100W in those bands and it is really TOUGH.

    To the "get a better antenna" guys: Not everybody lives in rural Kansas with unlimited space.

    To the guys saying this will get the CB guys QRO cheaply: The rule saying that there will be NO GAIN allowed from 26 to 28MHz still stands. Oh, and have you priced an Expert Linear Amp lately???

    Also: The change in ruling is not necessarily about going FULL LEGAL POWER. If you want to run 500W or so, and you want to do so with a 5W or 10W QRP rig, you still need more than 15dB of gain to get there.

    What I hear is a number of people wanting to limit the options of responsible operators based on what they have observed from a few high-powered lids.

    Technology has moved on. The old tube amp gain budget doesn't make sense for these new solid state amplifiers.
     
    W4HM, KC9UDX and KJ4ZWA like this.
  11. W1BKZ

    W1BKZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Then move to Somalia........
     
  12. KD2BRM

    KD2BRM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Most CB'ers are not using amateur linears to begin with. They're using splatbox transistor amps that are lucky to be even class C at best. And then there are the guys who are running 40KW homebrewed tube amps out of suburbans. Yes thats right 40,000W.

    I'd much rather see the time and effort go back to 1000w input, instead of the current 1500w PEP. It would be nice to get that 3db back for the AM'ers.
     
    KC9UDX likes this.
  13. KD2BRM

    KD2BRM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Before they switched from 1000w input to 1500w pep, you were able to run 3000w.
     
  14. KB7UXE

    KB7UXE Ham Member QRZ Page

    """" the SDR revolution has enabled American manufacturers to regain dominance in amateur radio manufacture """
    every radio I ever see comes from anywhere else but the US, and the few "made" here are made from parts mfg outside the US..
    ( assembled here ? )
    to be politically correct, and not wanting to use a derogatory term like "delusional",
    lets just say : I think this guy is "misinformed."
     
  15. K4ISR

    K4ISR Ham Member QRZ Page

    Most people have covered many of the perspectives and I see both sides.

    The bigger issue is these amp companies wanting to sell more and bigger amps for lower prices, which means more lids and idiots getting their signal heard. With FCC enforcement being minimal, removing or increasing these limits means more lids and idiots splattering all over.

    I say leave it as is.
     

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