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RF-Seismograph did not record any changes in the popagation

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by VE7DXW, Aug 22, 2017.

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  1. VE7DXW

    VE7DXW Ham Member QRZ Page

    We have completed the first analysis of the solar eclipse measurements. We came to the conclusion that the effect of the interruption of the solar radiation on a 100km (70mls) wide strip has a minimal overall effect on propagation. The notion that there will be overreaching AM stations to the fact that there is a small strip of the ionosphere missing is highly exaggerated.

    The Solar Eclipse RF-Seismograph exclusively showed that the propagation changes but not to the extent that folk tales report. Never the less it was a great exercise and it is good to see that all amateurs where using their radios to make contacts. According to HamSci the highest number of contacts were logged during the day of the eclipse and the data collected will keep Universities, their staff and students busy for some time.

    During the eclipse we measured on three locations and two of the location did not show any changes in the way propagation behaves. On the third station at an elevation of 900m the 40m band came up but that is not any different than regular 40m behavior. The recording station run by Joe Joncas - WA7MHB – was located in the center of the band totality and there was no noticeable difference.

    [​IMG]

    The high solar activity also may have been a factor of the measurement not yielding the results we expected. The high solar activity increased the absorption layer for low bands. The small band of darkness could not compensate for the thicker D-Layer.

    We want to thank everybody that was involved to get this measurement recorded. The RF-Seismograph will continue to run and record abnormalities affecting the ionosphere.



    All the best;

    The MDSR Team

    Alex Schwarz, Guy Roels, Joe Joncas and all the people that made the MDSR possible
     
    K4EEZ likes this.
  2. KM1H

    KM1H Ham Member QRZ Page

    Those in the roughly 75% and up totality areas reported lots of changes on the BCB and 160M. Reports are on the Topband reflector.
     
    N9TES likes this.
  3. KK5JY

    KK5JY Ham Member QRZ Page

    I was watching 40m, and I also saw openings to stations out west that appeared only during the pass of the eclipse. That's not conclusive but the correlation did exist. Peak obscuration here was something like 89%.
     
    N9TES and AD8Y like this.
  4. KF5FEI

    KF5FEI Ham Member QRZ Page

    For the life of me, I can't remember where I ran across a discussion of running CW / PSK / WSPR et al, and was told if I couldn't log my RX results real-time to PSKReporter or WSPRnet, I could submit a file later -- anyone know what the heck I'm thinking of?
     
  5. AA5CT

    AA5CT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Here is what I saw on the AM BC (Broadcast) band -

    I was tuned to 1520 kHz KOKC Oklahoma City at 50 kW. According to Radio-Locator.com the DFW Metroplex is at the southern edge of the daytime fringe coverage area.

    There are 4 or 5 weaker stations also on the same freq in TX and LA. Several low freq 'beat notes' can be heard at the peak of the eclipse.

    Edit: I was in what looked to be in the 75 to 77 % totality band.

     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  6. VE7DXW

    VE7DXW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Thank you for teh video. You actually confirmed my findings. If the solar eclipse had an effect on AM the signal level would have changed. It stayed steady between 3 and 5.

    Thanks for your post and the effort of recording during the eclipse;

    Alex - VE7DXW
     
  7. KL7AJ

    KL7AJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    I haven't seen one of those radios in AGES! They were great!
     
    AA5CT and VE7DXW like this.
  8. AA5CT

    AA5CT Ham Member QRZ Page

    I reckon one needs better ears and more refined cranial-resident analysis software/firmware to note the appearance of other signals (low freq 'beat note' seemingly modulating the AGC of the receiver) along with the signal primarily from KOKC.

    Do you *not* note the appearance of two other carriers at slight frequency offsets to the KOKC carrier? I think the second video even exhibits the infamous 'fading wall' seen when sky wave interferes with ground wave in a destructive manner.

    Your initial response, by the way, was not entirely unexpected. It seems we as analysts are depending less and less on our primary senses and more and more on the translation of the raw signals into forms more readily and easily recognizable by the 'untrained' layman.
     
    N9TES likes this.
  9. K1YOW

    K1YOW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Many of the NVARC radio club members up here in New England also saw eclipse effects. The club had many members running WSPR and they saw drops in signal reports on 20 meters during the eclipse which closely correlates to the MIT Haystack Ionosphere radar initial results of seeing a 2 fold decrease in electrons in the F2 layer. Other members saw improvements in the lower bands like 80M and 40M. It will take a while to digest and analyze the data from many sources, but an initial result seems to be the eclipse had a very observable effect on HF frequencies as seen by many sources, including our NVARC club members. I did an experiment an 6M and also watched 10M and saw no sporadic E effects (some theory suggested that a shear line could set up on the light-dark shadow line and cause Es - while that may be the case, I didn't detect anything Es wise out of the ordinary on 6M and 10M). Joe, K1YOW
     
    AG5DB, VE7DXW and AA5CT like this.
  10. VE7DXW

    VE7DXW Ham Member QRZ Page

    One of the issues that we had during the measurement is that the eclipse happened during a high solar activity phase were sun spot 2671 was extremely active. There were almost a dozen C-class and a few M-Class flares. While this sunspot was visible the solar flux went from the low 70 to 90. This is a huge change in radiation output and it had a severe impact on the D layer which attenuates lower bands. The effect can be visualized as looking though murky water or fog. Right after the eclipse a G2 magnetic storm made things even worse.
    The ionosphere needs solar energy to exist. When the lunar shadow takes that energy away there will be measurable effects of course. But one thing we have to realize is that this shadow is only a 70 miles across and it moves very fast over the face of the earth. The ionosphere reacts very slowly to changes and one can see that during night time propagation. 40m will stay up for about an hour or two after sun has risen because the absorption layer is changes very slow. The same is true with the solar shadow and it is only 70 miles across which does not remove a lot of the overall solar energy that hits the ionosphere.

    All the best;

    Alex
     
  11. W0AEW

    W0AEW Ham Member QRZ Page

    With wspr running during the 92% eclipse on 80 meters, I copied & was heard by several more stations than before or after. However, those stations might not have been active until closer to the eclipse, and without knowing their start times I can't rule that out. So, for me, inconclusive results due to at least one uncontrolled critical variable.
     
    VE7DXW and W2VW like this.
  12. VE7DXW

    VE7DXW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Here is the Math to support my point:


    The total surface of earth is 510.1* 106km2. So half of that gets hit by solar radiation which is: 255.05 * 106km2.

    The surface of the lunar shadow is 50km * 3.1415 = 157.1km2

    So if we take the surface area that receives sun (255.05 * 10exp6km2) divide it by the surface of the lunar shadow (157.1km2) we get a ratio of

    1 to 1.6 *10exp6.

    So this mean that the global effect of the lunar shadow causes only 6.1 * 10exp-7 of the total received radiation drop.
     
  13. K1YOW

    K1YOW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Hi Alex. My initial thoughts are that solar flares and radiation should have pretty much equal effects to all of us on the daytime side of the planet. Then, while your experiments showed little to no effects from the eclipse, many, many other hams and professionals saw effects, especially on 20M and lower. Now, from what I have read and experienced, the D and E layers react very quickly to sunshine going away as well as coming back. Their fast reaction speed to daylight as compared to the slower F2 reaction speed are some of the factors that give us gray line propagation. I would also think that where the Tx and Rx stations are located, as well as where the mid points of their paths are located are also important. I would think that East/West paths both North and South of the Eclipse travel line would see different effects than stations North or South of the Eclipse line would see with North South paths through the Eclipse line. Now, an East West path right on the Eclipse travel line would be really interesting to see. So.....I think that as the data points come in, especially from the contest as well as PSK Reporter, RBN network, etc, with hundreds of stations that participated, we will get a better idea why your experiment did not detect changes while many, if not most, other stations did detect changes. Anyway - the data will speak for itself. My motto: a few data points does not a distribution make - so after analyzing thousands of data points from hundreds of stations, we will have a clearer picture. 73, Joe, K1YOW
     
    VE7DXW likes this.
  14. AA5CT

    AA5CT Ham Member QRZ Page

    I don't see that you have a particularly effective "footprint" on 80 meters (not many reports); what equipment (ant, etc.) are you running on 80m WSPR?

    Added: WSPR spots for the past week:

    2017-08-24 14:42 W0AEW 3.594178 -24 0 DN70je 0.5 W3SMK CM87xq 1480 265
    2017-08-24 14:20 W0AEW 3.594178 -24 0 DN70je 0.5 W3SMK CM87xq 1480 265
    2017-08-21 17:54 W0AEW 3.594175 -21 0 DN70je 0.5 KF7YRS DM37fc 800 247
    2017-08-21 17:54 W0AEW 3.594174 -21 0 DN70je 0.5 KB7GF DN06ta 1248 306
    2017-08-21 17:46 W0AEW 3.594174 -25 0 DN70je 0.5 KB7GF DN06ta 1248 306
    2017-08-21 17:46 W0AEW 3.594175 -22 0 DN70je 0.5 KF7YRS DM37fc 800 247
    2017-08-21 17:36 W0AEW 3.594176 -25 0 DN70je 0.5 VE6JY DO33or 1610 342
    2017-08-21 17:36 W0AEW 3.594175 -23 0 DN70je 0.5 KF7YRS DM37fc 800 247
    2017-08-21 17:36 W0AEW 3.594174 -23 0 DN70je 0.5 KB7GF DN06ta 1248 306
    2017-08-21 17:36 W0AEW 3.594175 -32 0 DN70je 0.5 VE6JY DO33or 1610 342
    2017-08-20 13:38 W0AEW 3.594175 -26 0 DN70ke 0.5 KB7GF DN06ta 1254 306
    2017-08-20 13:16 W0AEW 3.594175 -29 0 DN70ke 0.5 KD0ZEI EN32sq 1091 71
    2017-08-20 13:16 W0AEW 3.594175 -19 0 DN70ke 0.5 KB7GF DN06ta 1254 306
    2017-08-20 13:16 W0AEW 3.594176 -26 0 DN70ke 0.5 VE6JY DO33or 1612 342
    2017-08-20 13:06 W0AEW 3.594176 -18 0 DN70ke 0.5 VE6JY DO33or 1612 342
    2017-08-20 13:06 W0AEW 3.594175 -23 0 DN70ke 0.5 KD0ZEI EN32sq 1091 71
    2017-08-20 13:06 W0AEW 3.594175 -26 0 DN70ke 0.5 N7VVX DN40bw 576 281
    2017-08-20 13:06 W0AEW 3.594175 -10 0 DN70ke 0.5 KB7GF DN06ta 1254 306

    de Jim
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  15. K1YOW

    K1YOW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Alex, why do we care about a global effect and calculation when we are looking at a localized effect - D, E and F2 layer changes in the local Eclipse shadow? Yes, most of the planet will see no effect, but that is not what we are interested in. We are looking at radio paths and ionospheric effects in and around the very localized Eclipse shadow. Joe, K1YOW
     
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