Research: 11 year solar cycle may be tied to planetary motion

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by K5XS, Jun 20, 2019.

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  1. K5XS

    K5XS Ham Member QRZ Page

    KA2TMU, KK5JY, VK3GOR and 12 others like this.
  2. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Thanks for posting, Bernie.

    Its not easy to find these correlations and they always look a bit muddy in the data.

    Ironically, this takes us back to John Gribbin's 'Jupiter Effect' from 45 years ago! Of course, that was wrong--no calamity on planetary alignment-- but an effect on solar cycle shouldn't be discounted.

    Chip W1YW
    K0UO, W9VHE, K7YB and 6 others like this.
  3. WF4W

    WF4W Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    and what about the tidal forces of Saturn, Mercury & Mars? Seems if there is a correlation between Venus/Jupiter/Earth there there would be come concordance with the other planets.
    K4WWK likes this.
  4. W6RZ

    W6RZ Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

  5. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    Read the second cited link carefully.

    They paid special attention to the Venus/Jupiter/Earth alignment because that occurs every 11 years, coincidental with the known solar cycle.

    They also allude that the combined tidal forces from all planets may have an additional effect on the internal workings of the Sun, the magnetic dynamo, via Taylor instability, and therefore may play a role in other solar flux variations superimposed over the 11 year cycle such as the Maunder Minimum.
    K4WWK, KW4GT, KD0CAC and 2 others like this.
  6. AK5CT

    AK5CT XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Hey, I got it... It's really Pluto. It got irritated a few years ago when they said it really wasn't a valid planet. So it got out of alignment and shut down the propagation.
    Humm just a thought.
    I'm not even gonna mention Uranus !!
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
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  7. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page we go...

    Nelson's article shows a correlation, which is fine, but stresses that TERRESTRIAL RF PROPAGATION is directly modulated by planetary alignments. That's just wrong. It has nothing to do with planets modulating the terrestrial ionosphere.

    The new study in the OP shows that it is the modulation of the Taylor instability below the 'surface ' of the Sun that is affected by these planetary alignments. This manifests as sunspot counts/ 22 year butterfly pattern.

    IOW the effect on propagation is not causal- correlated to planetary alignment, but changes in that Taylor instability are so correlated. Planetary alignments modulate the Taylor instability but are not the only phenomena that cause its variations. For example, the wacky splits in sunspot cycle peaks are not caused by planetary alignments.

    If Nelson had just presented the data without interpreting it he would have had a more useful scientific result. Interpretations are often not unique and locking into one separates science heroes from the forgotten. Occam's razor, BTW, does not seem manifest in Nelson's interpretation: it's not 'planets change the ionosphere'. It's 'planets change the Sun'.

    Hope that helps.

    Chip W1YW
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
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  8. KJ7WT

    KJ7WT Subscriber QRZ Page

    The theory behind this is pretty much over my head, but I like the fact that there are people who DO understand it and can explain why it affects HF propagation. Great stuff!
    W1YW likes this.
  9. KC8VWM

    KC8VWM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Correlation does not imply causality.
    AB7E, K4WWK, KJ4PBW and 5 others like this.
  10. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Sometimes too much knowledge is not a good thing....when I think of the Sun I see an opaque million degree plasma ball with convective transport and magnetohydrodynamic killer tendrils bigger than the Earth. When I think of the Earth I see a high density iron-nickel ball, with impurities, still cooling from primordial bombardment , formation, and radioactivity. Add an insulating crust to make a crunchy, unstable, and dangerous floating skin, broken in clashing parts.

    The parable of the Garden of Eden is far more palatable!

    Sometimes its better just to go outside, stare at the clouds, and listen to the birds, and not think much farther than you can spit;-)
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
    K0UO, M6EVR, W7UUU and 15 others like this.

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