Hello again Ken:You are interesting to read.Your descriptions are made very easy to see or understand.I am writing now because I went through SERE School at the Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Training Center up in the sierras at Bridgeport,Calif. This in the summer of '66,I only mention this as I wonder if they still instruct this up there or even with all of the many base closings of the past few years if the USMCMWTC still functions up there? Went there the year before for Mtn.Ops so would think that it still does.I would hope so if for nothing else despite the training,it's one beautiful spot of the world.. Vy 73, Gunny G.L.Mitchell (Former) W2MYA West Caldwell, N.J.
Thank Guys. I guess I shut down the forum down for nearly a day with some of my brain waves. I'm glad it is back up and running. My PTSD and related issues didn't hit me until my 60s, when we went into Iraq. I was obviously young and more resilient in the late 60s and into the late 70s. I'd pretty much just come off the farm in a dangerous and heavily industrial period long before the era OSHA, when bad things happened regularly. I won't go into all the gruesome things that happened to so many of my family members. I did a lot of hunting, fishing, slaughtering and butchering of farm animals. Death of animals, and maiming of humans seemed rather ingrained in my young mind, probably by the time I was 5-7 years old. My big meltdown came at about age 64. Some of my employees were in really bad places, where really bad things continue to happen. I' been in many of these bad places in the 1970s through the 1990s. These people were 5-7 hours ahead of me. My boss was on the West Coast, 3 hours behind me. So, when most people were getting ready for lunch, some of my employees were going out for night-ops. My boss was just catching up from what happened the night before. Plus, I still had about 20 people keeping up work in our labs on US Eastern Time. For 21 months straight before my total crash, my days just never ended. Because it takes so long to find and re-establish such extremely rare people who do what we did, it would take us 6 months just to hire a retiring SEAL or a Special Forces person, and then another 6-12 months to get them back through the many government processes to where they could again do a job they were previously well qualified for. We had an added burden that the people we really needed, also needed a lot of "book learnin" along with practical experience to to back it up. We usually needed people with a minimum of a BSEE, but preferred those with MSEEs, (or math/physics/chemical/etc. degrees) We also took psychologists and geological engineers with electronics experience (like hams), and other variations. In any case, there aren't a lot of these kind of incredible people around who could immediately help us. Before my crash, I went 24/7 for 21 months straight. My brain let me get past most of this in my younger days for many years, just like shrapnel locked into WB5GSA's body. At 78 I think you should be pretty immune to PTSD issues. But your wife's health care and condition can take quite a nasty toll on your mind and body. I don't envy you, and you have my sincerest sympathy. Don't be afraid to ask you doctor for some assistance. In our area (Northwestern VA/Northeastern, WV) we have excellent private health care. Many of my friends get exceptionally good care through our Veterans Associations programs in the Martinsburg, WV area and the Winchester, VA area. It is amazing how our brains develop chemicals and build new signal paths during these times of bad experiences. Modern science of the last 15-25 years has allowed the medical research and develop community to develop so many new medical and counseling (I guess just the opposite of to brain washing) tools to help us with so many of these issues. Don't be afraid to ask for help from multiple sources, including medical doctors, counselors, hospital group programs for people like us over 55, including the many NAMI chapters around the country. You can always send me a private message via this site if you have questions or concerns. I don't have any medical training, but I've been in the hands of some really good counselors and psychiatrists for about the last five years who may actually have me so sane that I now fit under a very narrow high-Q bell curve. I went through SERE at Whidbey Island, WA in the spring of 1970. At that time the Marines did most of the "training", but it was overseen by Navy senior enlisted and Navy officers. I guess the Navy guys were there to make sure that if the Marines killed, or seriously maimed any of us squids, it would have to have been done within the Geneva Convention rules. My cousin and I were both a little more than 22 years old when we went through. We were old enough and wise enough to feel they couldn't actually kill us. We also knew we both had firm dates for our next schools for which we had been specifically drafted, -- and they probably didn't want corpses in the schools. Oh, and as most of us "squids" were taught early in our military life, we could verify who had been a true marine. Kind of like during WW-II when they determined who were Americans vs., spys, by asking baseball questions. We learned never to address a former active duty marine as an "ex-Marine" -- unless he was less than honorably discharged. Thanks all, Ken/K8KJG
I've got my General now, KE0INH. Hoping to get my grandfather's callsign via the vanity program. After some thinking, I do recall some calls with my dad when I was 6 or 7 when he was stationed in in Da Nang, via MARS. You guys rock! I owe you more than I can ever repay. I hope I can return the favor somehow. KE0INH (that's a zero, keyboard's a little strange tonight.) P.S. Any hints on getting a Danish zero on ubuntu?
I was lucky enough to work and see both sides in action. I was primary MARS op at N0HSX (KA2NY) in Yokosuka, Japan in the '67-'68 timeframe. We had a primary phone position (Collins 'S' Line), secondary phone position (Yaesu gear that we bought personally) and room set aside for TTY in the quonset hut F-118. We were active on a number of nets, both day and night. We had a ring down phone arrangement with the Naval Hospital and prioritized phone patches for Navy and Marine Corps folks that found themselves at that facility. Our secondary priority was submarine crews transiting the port followed by afloat and others. Of course, MARS stations that were 'in county' had top priority on any of the circuits. They had center stage whenever propagation and local conditions would allow. (when it wasn't 'raining', etc.) Because I had been active in Navy MARS for several years prior to my enlistment, I remained very active when I returned home. My full time job was with the Associated Press, maintaining Model 15/19/20 Teletype equipment throughout Wisconsin and parts of Michigan and Minnesota. I managed to keep a LOT of MARS stations going on that mode. They were part of a very robust traffic handling system. Some of these stations handled quite a large number of messages, sometimes numbering in the hundreds of messages a month. There was one husband & wife team in the Milwaukee area that did everything possible to make sure each and every message was delivered. That was definitely a defining time for the MARS program. 73, Jim, K9JT (ex K9ZYS) AFA5VH ex N0WVH (1964) ex CTR-2
WoW !! K9JT (then KN9ZYS) Jim, was my ELMER in 1961 in Milwaukee !!! (over 55 years ago!!). We attended LANE JR. HIGH-SCHOOL together. I joined the Navy in Feb. 1964 (living in Arkansas then as WA5BIB) Jim, I think you're off by one year !! I returned from Turkey (TA2ZZ) in August of 1969 & after attending Instructor / Leadership school in Norfolk, Va., I reported aboard NCTC Corry Field in Pensacola, Fla., in Jan. of 1970. I remember running into you in the barracks one night while I was "duty base MAA". You were attending "A" school & I was a "A" school instructor. I've often wondered what happened to ya. Thank you for developing my interest in ham radio !! I remember that you had a homebrew 5 watt xmtr & a Heathkit AR-3 rcvr with a DPDT knife-switch for switching. (I still remember the smell of RF burnt finger-tips from the little neon bulb that was used for tuning-up !!!) My email address is o.k. on QRZ.com. Let's not let another 55 years go by my friend. 73 de Steve / W5BIB (ex KN9IJQ) -ex CTR1(AC) 1964-72
I stand corrected Jim... I saw you while I was at Corry Field in early 1967 while I was going thru "B" (P&R) school between Vietnam & Turkey. I was barracks MAA (CTR2) when I ran in to you. (the mind is a terrible thing to lose) lol
I agree, a mind is a terrible thing... Your correction is spot on. I enlisted in '66 and was at Corry (WA4ECY) in '67, then off to Kami (KA2KS), TAD to Yokosuka (KA2NY), etc., etc. Between my 'day' job and MARS activity, it was quite an experience. Very intense, but I wouldn't change a thing and don't regret one second. I will make sure my e-mail address is updated as well. 73, Jim
Hi Bob, I also served in the Marines and spent 70-71 around Da Nang with the 1st MP Battalion. We were the guys who guarded the airbase gates and perimeter and when 1st Mar Div packed up we ran patrols at night to go after the VC shelling the base with those annoying Chinese 122 mm rockets and mortars. Well the Air Force radar at Gunfighter could usually spot the area where they came from and we would load up in a couple of 6 by's and sweep the rice patties around Happy Valley. One night we caught a company of NVA in the open and called in a couple of Cobra gun ships. We just set back and watched them run figure 8's and burst mini guns - lights and action. But mostly what we did was cat and mouse skirmishes, filling sandbags and burning shi**ers. That was sure one crazy place. Remember helping in the 1st Marine Air Wing Officers Club one night while they practiced carrier qualifications on a long beer soaked tables with a couple of new second Lieutenants. Atmosphere and attitudes were a lot different in the "O" club compared to the enlisted clubs. Also was sent to MCAS El Toro and got out in 73 but the experience at the O club and the conversations I had that night stayed with me and in 1976 while in College decided to go back in this time as an Officer. Spent summer of 76 at OCS at Quantico, After TBS was a 2501 Communications Officer. I believe we were there to prop up a corrupt and weak South Vietnamese government that was no match for the North and without our aid and US military could never stand on it's own. Trying to instill democracy on a culture still living in huts ruled by tribal chieftains did not work out so well. On the ham radio side - After Staging at Pendleton and getting acclimatized in Okinawa one day I walked up to the MARS station at Camp Hansen and was talking with a new on station PFC who was running phone patches and mentioned that I had a novice license. He called his Gunny and they spent an hour trying to convince me that since they were short handed I could avoid Viet Nam duty and work with them. I ended up declining their offer because I did not want to leave the buddy's I had spent the last year training with. Say it - "Young and Dumb" - but I'm glad what I did and the time I served in Viet Nam and would do it again. Thank you everyone for these wonderful posts. They bring back a lot I haven't thought about in a long time. 73 and Semper Fi Gary W8VI
Gary, Thanks for your post. Hey maybe we even crossed paths in DaNang, you never know. I was assigned to the MAG-11 Motor Transport Squadron from August 1970 - July 1971 when we all finally left RVN. Our Motor Transport Officer promised all of us Corporal by the end of our Viet Nam tour. That NEVER happened for any of us!! I was in staging at Pendleton in July 1970 and was supposed to be PCS to Okinawa. After arriving in Okinawa, they changed my orders to "RVN". That was a huge surprise for me that I did not see coming. I should have known that b/c why else would they assign me to Staging Battalion. Anyway we left DaNang and arrived at MCAS El Toro where we were all placed into casual barracks and immediately put on "sh*t details" for three days. I guess that was our Welcome Home. My Dad was a WWII vet and when he heard about them putting us on sh*t details the real SHTF at El Toro. Next thing I knew was that we were placed on leave right away. I was called out of ranks and questioned about just who in hell was my Dad b/c he caused quite a stir on El Toro. Hey he simply did't like the idea of placing returning Viet Nam vets on sh*t details and wanted to know why it happened in the first place. I couldn't have agreed more but hey I was only a lowly LCPL. A very nice 1st Lt said I would return to her office which was the Joint Reception Center (JRC) which is separations and the office where you check in as your new duty station on El Toro. I told her I was in MotorTransport but she corrected me and said "not any more" so I worked there in the JRC in military ID from Sept 1971 until the end of my enlistment in Jan 1972. Never was promoted to Corporal. Have two MOS's and a year in RVN with a high cutting score as well. But then I had a lot going against me, went to MCRD in San Diego, was in the Air Wing, and I was a draftee. Not exactly the model Marine as you know. It's all good. I was drafted, did my duty to the best of my abilities, and have absolutely no regrets. The USMC, the federal government, and SOME American people who hated me for my service owe me NOTHING. Thanks again Gary for your post and for your service to our great country. Semper Fi sir!! Best 73 Bob
After a year or more in that delightful "conflict"... some of us were lucky enough to come home to these scenes:
KEN: Vivid memories may never go away, yet at some point the guilt was transferred to those really responsible. We were the hands that set orders into motion; the political prostitutes were the "brains" that made wrong decision after wrong decision. We followed "orders"; they followed their search for "power". It was "people control" then and today nothing has changed. We served. Now it may be time to accept what happened has been made clear to those who denied what was happening or simply did not care "back in the proverbial day". That realization was (and remains) my therapy and aided in me forgiving myself for that I could not avoid. HAM RADIO - it was that one tiny thread that kept young minds in touch with reality. Be well Ken - be well. Don
Don, Thank you for that. It is extremely insightful. I can forgive myself -- I think. I have a hard time placing the issues on those in authority above me. I have very mixed emotions about what we did. How much was necessary, and how much went way beyond what was necessary? I learned something very significant in my PTSD therapy that ties to what you posted. It is known as MORAL INJURY. It probably affects more Navy, Air Force, and civilians, because we were at a distance from our victims. We didn't experience the immediate sights and sounds, and the direct face-to-face bloody mayhem of our Army and Marine compatriots. Especially in the Navy, aboard ship, we were fairly safe and far away from the actual incidents. In my Navy time, and the next 30+ years as a civilian in this crazy business, I seldom saw the victims before annihilation. It was/is mostly the after-effects that affect me. But, when my employees/friends/colleagues did experience face-to-face issues, it really bothers me. To this day, answering the telephone, or trying to make a phone call, is still a lot like getting a near-instant food poisoning attack. My "startle response" to a ringing telephone in the middle of the night remains a very serious issue. Even in retirement, I frequently wait several days to open emails that I expect may include very bad news. It may seem counter-intuitive that my actual Navy duty days were probably less than 20% of the experiences that got me to where I was/am. It was the 35 years after that, as a civilian, that really took a toll on my brain. The first 4-5 years after getting out of the Navy, and particularly the last seven years of my career, were by far the worst. I was medically retired about 4-1/2 years ago age 64. At that time I had worked mostly 7 days a week, with many 12-20 hour a days, for 21 straight months - and never out of reach from a cell phone or texting from anywhere in the world. Since I started getting treated 4-5 years ago for PTSD, life has gotten much better. My nightmares and night terrors have greatly subsided. I probably shouldn't be on this thread, because I have again been experiencing night issues every few nights since I started posting on this thread. I had been mostly free of them for much of the last year. On the other hand, it has also been very good to be on this thread. I've found many kindred souls, with whom I share a brain issue and a great hobby. I didn't fit into the VA PTSD programs, because most of my issues came from post-military situations. Thankfully, I found psychiatrists and counselors familiar with PTSD, but not military PTSD. They've used me to help train interns, because most of their PTSD experience and training involves domestic situations, like rape, incest, etc. I think I've helped them and others. Has anyone else found a PTSD site for those of us who weren't domestic violence victims, and who weren't in eye-to-eye destruction of other humans? Do we just continue this thread for those of us hams who experienced some rather gruesome and hideous times? That would actually be my preference. Thanks all, Ken/K8KJG
I find the thread akin to a form of therapy. Rather than attending "group" meetings with the VA on a scheduled basis. This thread deals with the ham radio/MARS Vietnam vet and/or family problems that have manifested themselves as PTSD over a long period of time. Perhaps it will encourage those Bosnian/Iraqi/Afghanistan veterans (who were/are hams) to come forward & seek help sooner, rather than later. For Vietnam vets, 20-30-40 even 50 years is a long time to carry a heavy mental load without at least sharing some experiences on how you deal/dealt with it. Steve / W5BIB in country 65-66-67 in service (NSG, NSA-CSS) 64-72 http://usspueblo.org/North_Korea/EC121_shootdown.html
To all Vietnam veterans and those that paid the price and their families. Thank you for your service. Semper Fi Jim WA5JAV
