OBAMA Care - what is the problem?

Discussion in 'ex-Rag Chew Central' started by G4OTU, Sep 19, 2013.

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  1. G4OTU

    G4OTU Ham Member

    Speaking as an inhabitant of a country where healthcare is not dependent upon ability to pay, can someone explain to me just why so many Americans in the "have" camp seem determined to deny anything other than basic emergency treatment to those in the "Have-not" camp?

    Is it the fact that your("have") contributions to whatever system you use, may in fact, pay for the treatment of "have-nots" that hurts so much?
    That is certainly the way it looks from outside.

    Maybe I misunderstand - but from here a very "dog in the manger" attitude is becoming visible.
     
  2. KK4AMP

    KK4AMP Ham Member

    It's losing even more of my money to your professional 'have nots' while the quality of the care U part for for myself and loved ones lowers in quality.

    I don't think you understand how badly the system is abused over here.
     
  3. KK4AMP

    KK4AMP Ham Member

    *I pay for myself. Darn phone keyboard.
     
  4. K0BG

    K0BG Platinum Subscriber

    It is simply a case of giving away government monies—an oxymoron by itself—to buy votes. Yes, it does benefit some folks, but at the great expense of others.
     
  5. AC4UT

    AC4UT Ham Member

    I may be in danger of losing my company insurance since it will be cheaper for the company to pay the penalty. It's not greed on thier part but survival. My doctor may close his practice because of it, people have already been cut to part time because of it. There are almost as many people riding in the wagon as are pulling it and soon the wagon will stop because of the broken backs of the middle class.
     
  6. KI4NGN

    KI4NGN Ham Member

    Because the issue is not about healthcare, but healthcare insurance, a private industry product.

    Instead of spending billions of tax dollars to subsidize the purchase of healthcare insurance, thus subsidizing those businesses, I don't understand why the government is not building and staffing hospitals and medical centers, using all of the billions to actually provide healthcare to those who can't afford it.
     
  7. K7JEM

    K7JEM Ham Member

    This is the solution. The government could easily set up clinics and hospitals to take care of the poor, while letting the rest of us have the health care we want. Problem is, that gov't HC system would soon bloat into a nightmare, the gov't doesn't do anything efficiently, or particularly well.

    The proposed ACA is not going to solve HC problems in the USA, it will make a few things better, and a lot of things worse, all while costing $300-$500 billion each year. I think that is a hard statement to argue with, since it is true.

    Joe
     
  8. W7KKK

    W7KKK Ham Member

    It's just an objection to be told what to do. Americans don't like it.
    I remember when people objected to be told they had to wear seatbelts in the 1960s.
    I also remember when having insurance became mandatory for cars. Well sort of. Unlike Germany where I was stationed in the late 1960s with the Army if your insurance expired there your care had better be parked at home as the police came and took your plates. That being said if you get caught without insurance you pay fines. My first wife got hit by 4 uninsured drivers before we got married in the 1960s and I have been hit by one, again in the 1960s. and one in the 1980s.
    I think people in our country like to resist change. Look at our gun policies. I like guns too but I think there are many that don't belong in the hands of civilians.
    I will also guess that people resisted Social Security when it came into being but I had not been born yet.
    I also think that one of the biggest reasons people don't like Obama Care is that they don't know that much about it but they will shortly, like it or not.
    I think the Affordable Health Care Act is much like the SS system was at the time and that eventually people will just have to accept it as part of life.
    I think it's needed personally
    That being said I have been fortunate in my work life in that other than the very early days as a teenager I managed to have and keep jobs that had decent health insurance. And that carried over into my retirement. Just lucky I guess.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
  9. NA0AA

    NA0AA Ham Member

    I think, Americans, as a rule, don't like change, fear new things, and you can always tell an American, BUT YOU CAN'T TELL HIM MUCH.

    i.e. are, as a rule, quite secure in our isolation and ignorance.

    Part of it is this irrational concept of Welfare Queens. The real Welfare Queens are the corporations, at least based on dollars. But corporations have PR departments, WQ's got bupkis.
     
  10. NA0AA

    NA0AA Ham Member

    We also believe in the right to be utterly ignorant about everything and even respect it....
     
  11. KC8VWM

    KC8VWM Ham Member

    Nothing said in this thread will actually resolve the matter, but anyways the main issue in my mind is how the implementation of the current direction we are in, does very little or nothing at all in terms of actually improving health care services for the American public.

    I'm sorry if that simple fact sticks out like a giant sore thumb and everything, but the government seems only focused and interested in healthcare services from an insurance coverage, budget analyses, and money matters administration aspect.

    Sure, costs are ONE consideration in this equasion, but actually providing and improving care for people who need it most, IS and SHOULD be the primary focus of attention in this country. But clearly, it isn't.

    There is very little understanding of this responsibility in Washington and what it actually means for the government to implement effective healthcare services for the public.

    They seem to be stuck in the mentality that healthcare services should be operated just like any other mega corporation, when clearly that should not be the objective of the current administration at all.

    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2013
  12. K7WFM

    K7WFM Ham Member

    Creepy Uncle Sugar will see you now.

    [video=youtube;R7cRsfW0Jv8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7cRsfW0Jv8[/video]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. KB9BVN

    KB9BVN Ham Member

    You're right...you are misunderstanding....but that's ok, not many people can understand our congress.
     
  14. WA4OTD

    WA4OTD XML Subscriber

    There are couple key issues:
    1. Most Americans see people as being in control of their life and "haves" think I did it through hard work and anyone should be able to and see the "have nots" as there because they want to be there. We see a need to help people down on their luck, but not create a system that encourages less work. Just had this conversation yesterday with health care provider. My 91 year old mom is to the point of needing companion care at home. Because she worked, has a savings account, owns her home she must pay for the companion care. If she had not worked, did not have savings, own her home we were told it would be free. At $16/hour that is $2560 a month, a lot of money that would be paid for her by medicaid if she were broke.
    2. Americans generally do not see a need to average everyone's salary (big taxes and entitlements). Lived in Belgium 2 years and generally most EU countries that have immigration do not like immigrants (generally have not's) coming in and getting free everything there either.
    3. I think it is the fear of another out of control government program like social security, which has been modified many times but is still spending much faster than money is brought in. Whatever is done now in health care will be massively increased every few years.

    This example from Wiki has been the continual evolution of Social Security.
    [h=4]1977 Amendments
    To combat the declining financial outlook, in 1977 Congress passed and Carter signed legislation fixing the double-indexing mistake. This amendment also altered the tax formulas to raise more money, increasing withholding from 2% to 6.15%. With these changes, President Carter remarked, "Now this legislation will guarantee that from 1980 to the year 2030, the Social Security funds will be sound." This turned out not to be the case. The financial picture declined almost immediately and by the early 1980s, the system was again in crisis.[/h]
     
  15. N0SYA

    N0SYA Ham Member

    Q: OBAMA Care - what is the problem?
    A: Everything

    To put it bluntly, everything the government absconds with, it ruins. Everything. We had some of the best healthcare in the world, now the feral gubmit is trying to absorb it into its cancerous body of corruption and ruin, wich of course means unimaginable waste and deterioration. Already drs are retiring en mass.
     
  16. K0RGR

    K0RGR Premium Subscriber

    First of all. we Americans have been told since birth that all of you British have to wait months and months to get in to see a government doctor, and that you are taxed almost out of existence to pay for this wretched socialist medical system. We see stories all the time about some Canadian who decided to come to the USA for treatment rather than see doctors in Canada. Many of your countrymen get on media like this one and complain bitterly about the National Health System.

    So, the very notion of 'socialized medicine' is associated with the Devil. We have Americans marching in the street demanding an end to the new national health initiative while carrying signs that say "Keep your government out of my Medicare" - which is, of course, a highly successful government socialized medicine program for the elderly.

    There are problems with the new law. Everybody knows that. But no changes can be made to it. The party that controls the Congress will not allow any amendments, they have voted something like 70 times now to repeal the whole law, instead. They agreed to participate in creating the law until they got what they wanted - a bill so watered down and confused that it's impact is hard to judge. Then, they stopped supporting it and threw all efforts into defeating this 'unpopular' law. They cut all funds that were supposed to be used to educate the public about the law and how to obtain insurance under it - so now we have a big majority of people who are confused and frightened by the apocalyptic talk coming from the people who have tried to torpedo the law all along.

    Most people don't even understand the benefits of the new law. My brother in law was just diagnosed with three very serious problems. He's likely going to be in the hospital a whole lot. I think he will eventually be glad that Obamacare did away with the 'lifetime' and 'annual' maximums that his medical insurance had. Of course, he still curses Obama because that's his religion.
     
  17. K7WFM

    K7WFM Ham Member

    Bro version:

    [video=youtube;BsN75nt1aUU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsN75nt1aUU[/video]
     
  18. KG6JTB

    KG6JTB Ham Member

    The vast majority of Americans who oppose Obamacare are seniors on Medicare. Lets stop polling them.
     
  19. N0SYA

    N0SYA Ham Member

    The vast majority of Americans who oppose Obamacare are Americans. Lets start listening to them.
     
  20. KW4MW

    KW4MW Ham Member

    Is it the fact that your("have") contributions to whatever system you use, may in fact, pay for the treatment of "have-nots" that hurts so much?

    First of all, we Americans for the most part are known for our largesse, generosity and compassion, not for stinginess and spite.

    Secondly, in spite of whatever propaganda you're reading in the Times or hearing from the Beeb, the "have nots" have never been turned away from receiving medical care.

    I would also venture to say that most of the "have nots" are under educated and living off the welfare "entitlements" paid for by honest workers. In other words they are societies losers or if you want to take the progressive drift, they are the "unlucky ones".

    From today's Investor's Business Daily
    Why Americans Oppose ObamaCare
    excerpted:

    ObamaCare is a rolling disaster that is creating new enemies every day as its harmful effects ripple through the economy.

    This week, the prestigious Cleveland Clinic announced plans to lay off as many as 3,000 workers “to prepare for health care reform.” And hundreds of franchise owners came to Washington to explain how ObamaCare’s employer mandate will force many of them to cut worker hours to avoid its massive costs.

    Last week, Connecticut’s Lawrence and Memorial Hospital cut dozens of jobs, citing “massive structural change” brought on by ObamaCare. More than a dozen other hospitals have recently announced job cuts.

    That same week, the AFL-CIO voted overwhelmingly for a resolution calling ObamaCare “highly disruptive,” despite concerted efforts on the part of the White House to convince labor leaders not to do so.

    Other unions have been far less polite.

    Then there are the jobs killed by ObamaCare’s excise tax on medical devices. Last fall, device maker Stryker Corp. laid off 1,170 workers because of that tax — which both Democrats and the GOP are now trying to repeal.

    IBD has been cataloguing businesses, public institutions and local governments that have cut jobs or worker hours specifically citing ObamaCare. That list is now more than 250.

    Other companies are cutting benefits for part-time workers, spouses, early retirees or their entire workforce, because of ObamaCare. Every one of those workers has a good reason to want the law killed.

    On top of this, the public may be noticing the growing pile of ObamaCare’s broken promises. Among them:

    * Family premiums haven’t gone down by $2,500 annually, as Obama repeatedly said they would. They’ve gone up $2,976.

    * Workers are increasingly finding that they can’t keep the health plans they like, despite Obama’s pledge that they can.

    * ObamaCare is adding to federal budget deficits, as IBD recently reported, even though Obama claimed it would cut red ink.

    *The law is hurting small businesses, not helping them. The public even might have noticed that Obama himself has shown the law to be seriously flawed. According to the Congressional Research Service, he repealed, changed or delayed pieces of ObamaCare 19 times. That includes the employer mandate, the verification rules, the limit on out-of-pocket costs, and the ability for workers at small companies to have a choice of plans in the exchanges.

    The public’s dislike of ObamaCare is real, and it is well-deserved
    .

    IBD 9/19
    ObamaCare Mandate: 301 Employers Cut Hours, Jobs
    More than 300 employers have cut work hours or jobs, or otherwise shifted away from full-time staff, to limit liability under ObamaCare, according to a newly updated IBD analysis.

    The ObamaCare Employer Mandate: A List Of Cuts To Work Hours, Jobs now includes 62 private employers and 239 public-sector employers. The list includes 80 school districts that have cited Affordable Care Act costs as a reason for cutting work hours — or in several cases outsourcing functions — of part-time instructional aides, cafeteria workers, custodians and bus drivers.

    It also includes 46 universities and colleges — in some cases college systems — that have reduced teaching loads for adjunct faculty.
    The 43 entries added to the list in the past two weeks reflect numerous actions taken before the Obama administration announced a one-year delay of ObamaCare employer mandate penalties on July 2. But the list also includes actions taken more recently, such as SeaWorld Entertainment's decision to limit part-time workers to 28 hours per week, down from 32 hours previously.
    .
    .
    The White House and like-minded economists have downplayed the growing body of anecdotal evidence about the downside of ObamaCare's employer mandate, insisting that there's no sign hours work are being curtailed.

    Official data show the opposite is true: Something is seriously depressing the workweek for low-wage earners.Workers in low-wage industries clocked the shortest average workweek on record in July, just 27.4 hours, an IBD analysis of the latest available Bureau of Labor Statistics industry data shows.

    This low-wage segment covers 29 million private-sector workers, 25% of the total, in about 40 industry groups where nonsupervisors make up to about $14.50 an hour.
    .
    .



    Also from IBD
    8/14
    ObamaCare Fuels Sharp Workweek Drop In 4 Industries
    Anyone who insists ObamaCare employer penalties aren't having a meaningful impact on work hours simply hasn't looked closely at the evidence.In a private economy with 114 million workers clocking 34.4 hours a week on average, it's easy to miss important changes.What feels like a wave to modest-wage workers getting hit may appear to be a mere ripple from an altitude of 40,000 feet.After all, 1.4 million workers could lose an 8-hour shift and it would shave just six minutes off the average workweek.

    But if one looks closely, it's not hard to find industry groups with an unprecedented drop in work hours since ObamaCare became law.

    Among retail bakeries, home-improvement stores and providers of social assistance to the elderly and disabled, the workweek for nonmanagers has fallen to record-low levels — by far.At general merchandise stores, department stores and discounters, the rate at which the workweek has fallen since early 2012 is way off the charts relative to prior data going back to 1990.





     
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