New Yaesu Digital Amateur Radios in 2012

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by WS4E, Dec 28, 2011.

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  1. WS4E

    WS4E Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yaesu is hinting that they will be coming out with new digital amateur radios in 2012.

    This new PDF phamplet discussing amateur digital radios shows the new Vertex Standard APCO P-25 commercial radios, as well as new amateur radios based on C4FM FDMA.

    This appears that Yaesu will be offering amateur gear based on the MotoTrobo digital standard in 2012. The new vertex radios look identical to their Mototrola counterparts.

    I guess this makes sense now that Yaesu is owned by Motorola.
  2. N2MDA

    N2MDA Ham Member QRZ Page

    It's always nice t see technology moving forward. With the latest group of portable radios and now a 5 band beam for HF, I can only see good things for the new 2012 year. One thing though that I would like to see is more activity on our repeaters.Whether it's 2 meters or 440. The increase in activity can insure that we won't be losing our Amateur Radio bands. The commercial boys are out there constantly looking for increased bandwith and frequencies s you can scroll your cellphone. Happy New turn on your radio ........Have Fun BOB N2MDA
  3. NL7W

    NL7W Ham Member QRZ Page

  4. N6WBL

    N6WBL XML Subscriber QRZ Page

  5. KC9EOQ

    KC9EOQ Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Me thinks Yaesu/Vertex Standard has just drawn a line in the sand against the Icom/D-Star Systems! This should be interesting.....

    I noticed how the mobile microphone looks similar to a Motorola Public Safety one. ;)

    Dean, KC9EOQ
  6. NL7W

    NL7W Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yes, they has drawn the line. This paper is well-written.

    Kudos to Yaesu! :)

  7. MM6YET

    MM6YET Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yes, and the Yaesu rigs aren't it.

    They use the IMBE CODEC, which is patented, and comes sealed on a chip from DVSI, just like the AMBE one in D-Star rigs.

    So no need to get worked up, it's just a newer version of the same garbage.
  8. K0RGR

    K0RGR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    It all comes down to marketing.

    Hams will buy it if it doesn't cost any more and provides some additional function. If the Yaesu rigs are priced like DSTAR radios, fuggetaboutit. I think to have any chance of success, they need to come up with a modulation technique that will coexist with analog users on the same repeater. If the repeater needs to be replaced to make that happen, it's probably not fatal, but it won't help.

    We DSTAR users, and I'm not a heavy duty one, will continue to do what we do until they turn off the reflectors. While they make some interesting arguments, the only thing that will sell this turkey is if they get enough people using it to make it worth having. Unless the rigs are very cheap, I see that being a long, hard slog. Someday, in the future, there might be some surplus commercial gear around that will make this a popular mode for hams. Maybe...
  9. NL7W

    NL7W Ham Member QRZ Page

    I am not familiar with the quality of DSTAR audio, but I am quite familiar with P25 C4FM 12.5 KHz audio emanating from Motorola premium XTS series portable radios used in the public safety or government realm. P25 audio is quite good. I'd say it is equivalent to, or is easier to understand, than analog voice in most situations. I like it.
  10. N7IQV

    N7IQV Ham Member QRZ Page

    Not so, if you read the Yaesu Musen story also posted hereabouts.
  11. KJ4VTH

    KJ4VTH Subscriber QRZ Page

    See other topic about Yaesu announcing split from Motorola/Vertex.
  12. KW7DSP

    KW7DSP XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    My thoughts exactly. It seems Yaesu and Motorola are parting ways.
  13. KQ9J

    KQ9J Subscriber QRZ Page

    Except where you need it the most. We still have two repeater sites to cover 1200 square miles and the places that had bad coverage with the analog radios are AWFUL with the P25. Where a good set of ears could fill in the scratchy audio, now there is nothing but bits and pieces of audio or even silence.

    Where there is good signal, the audio from the digital is fine. I'll give you that much. And I don't know the geography up there, to be sure. Just my observations from a public safety system user in our neck of the woods.

    The narrowbanding effort and migration to digital may alleviate some congestion in metro areas, but mostly what it did was make some manufacturers a TON of money.
  14. NL7W

    NL7W Ham Member QRZ Page


    I cannot argue this. P25 radios start to drop out audio around the -115 dBm signal level point, which equivalent to the 12 to 15 dB SINAD point on an analog radio. Properly designed P25 systems will "makeup" for this difference by the installation of an additional repeater or repeaters -- so that signal levels stay above the sensitivity threshold.

    With the advent of forced FCC narrow-banding and a "fixed" drop-dead implementation date -- at some point -- the likelihood that most, if not all, VHF systems moving to digitally modulated radios is great. It will happen.

    I'd recommend that your public safety departments start monetarily planning for these now.

    This comes from someone who consulted with federal, state, and local agencies concerning PSMR for years, up till two years ago.

  15. KC9TNH

    KC9TNH Ham Member QRZ Page

    Should make some interesting pre-owned buying cycles as "next big thing" cycles through.
  16. WA4UKX

    WA4UKX Ham Member QRZ Page

    Since cost always seems to be an issue anytime p25 or D-star is discussed on qrz maybe Wouxun will start selling them for $99 . then we will see a big jump in d-star and p25 use.....73 gene
  17. 2E0AIV

    2E0AIV Ham Member QRZ Page

    For info - The German Amateurs have already cracked this one and there is software available to link the new yeasu system into the D-Star system, so there will be no need for new yaesu repeaters for the P25 standard. it is a simple bolt on software to existing D-star repeaters, working through a modem, so i have been led to believe. So i doubt we will see any war for digital standards? The two can co-exist. All we can hope for is that the Yeasu C4FM will be sensibly priced, as in my humble opinion Icom have been taking the micheal with their D-Star radio radios. Our repeater is already preparing for the new system to co-exist with D-Star. I would very much like Yeasu to bring out a board which could be fitted to existing Yeasu radios (even externally) to allow use of my FT8800's, again price would be the selling point. I have an Icom E2820 D-Star radio and get a lot of use out of it, however, it took me several months to dry up my tears after paying that much money for a dual band radio.
  18. KT7F

    KT7F Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yaesu has not now or ever been owned by Motorola. Motorola had an intererst in Vertex Standard LMR, not Yaesu.
  19. N4XTS

    N4XTS Ham Member QRZ Page

    Interesting. My experience is completely opposite.
    We did a full run demo of a Kenwood NexEDGE conventional UHF repeater on 12.5KHz, single site, setup for dual mode (digital/analog) operation. Granted NexEDGE uses AMBE not IMBE, but it's similar in packet structure and error recovery (actually better IMO).

    Using provided mobile and portable radios, we did drive testing throughout the desired coverage area.
    In all spots where communication in analog 12.5KHz were difficult at best (noisy, scratchy), NexEDGE came through clearly, with no dropout or artifact.

    Any properly optimized radio system will work well if it has the number of sites and power levels needed.
    Digital has some clear advantages over analog, but there are many important factors such as having up to date DSP, codecs and alignment that can make a digital radio perform very poorly.

    Most underperforming digital radio systems have the same problems as analog ones. Not designed with adequate infrastructure for the desired coverage area.

    In our tests, digital was clearly superior.
  20. M0IDD

    M0IDD Ham Member QRZ Page

    I truly hope the audio is better, dstar is terrible quality audio even with no errors.
    It took me less than two months to buy and dump a 2820 because of it's terrible audio.
    Even tetra sounds better.
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