New French CEPT paper still wants 144-146 MHz for Aeronautical

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by G4TUT, Aug 24, 2019.

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  1. G4TUT

    G4TUT Ham Member QRZ Page

    New French CEPT paper still wants 144-146 MHz for Aeronautical

    The French administration has renewed its attack on the Amateur Radio 144-146 MHz band ahead of a key CEPT ECC CPG meeting in Ankara, August 26-30

    In a paper to be considered at the conference the French Administration says it is not at this time seeking Primary status for the Aeronautical Mobile Service in 144-146, however, their intent is still that the Aeronautical should share the amateur 2m band.

    It is clear where such sharing would inevitably lead, amateur operation in the band would only be tolerated if there were no interference to Aeronautical Mobile. Radio Amateurs might be subject to heavy restriction and low EIRP limits.

    We can get on idea of France's long term intent for 144 MHz from their attitude to the 1240-1300 MHz band. It was initially said the Galileo constellation could amicably share this allocation and amateur operation could continue but now France says "unregulated use of the band 1240-1300 MHz by the amateur service is a serious source of harmful interference to RNSS receivers." See
    http://www.southgatearc.org/news/2019/august/threat-to-amateur-radio-23cm-band.htm

    The French paper CPG(19)137 F - AI10 - Non safety AMS-background information is at
    https://www.cept.org/Documents/cpg/53024/cpg-19-137_f-ai10-non-safety-ams-backgroud-information

    Read the Save 2 Meter story French administration strikes back at IARU at
    https://www.save2m.org/2019/08/french-administration-strikes-back-at-iaru/

    Follow Save 2 Meter at
    https://twitter.com/Save2Meter

    Other Ankara meeting documents are at https://cept.org/ecc/groups/ecc/cpg/client/meeting-documents/?flid=10031



    http://www.southgatearc.org/news/20...-still-wants-144-146-mhz-for-aeronautical.htm

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  2. SM0AOM

    SM0AOM Ham Member QRZ Page

    To find out more in detail what is going on, and the position of the Swedish regulator in this issue, I invited myself to the last preparatory meeting before the CPG yesterday.

    Amateur radio was only touched upon, and the indifference of the regulator towards the whole issue was quite evident.
    The Swedish regulator has however not finally made up its mind whether or not to support the French proposal.

    In general, they are supportive of all proposals that could result in more extensive spectrum sharing and non-exclusive bands, but it was mentioned in passing that the French proposal may result in having to participate in CEPT and ITU study programmes, which they do not want to do in connection with something so unimportant as amateur radio.

    For these reasons, they may decide not to support the proposal for the time being.

    In other frequency bands, there have also been discussions of sharing between land-mobile and aeronautical mobile users.

    Many "in the business" are of the opinion that the current practice of disallowing aeromobile use of the land-mobile bands (primarily 162-174 MHz) relies on outdated sharing criteria and practices from the 40s and 50s, and that modern technology permits sharing in much greater extent today.

    For this reason, the resurfacing of proposals like the French is almost assured, as the competition for spectrum increases.

    Most regulators are also governed by high-level policy decisions that say that "exclusive spectrum allocation", except for a very small number of public and transportation safety critical systems, should become a thing of the past.

    One example is the peace-time frequency allocations for Armed Forces, which are becoming shared with various civilian users in a rapidly increasing pace.

    73/
    Karl-Arne
    SM0AOM
     
    W1YW likes this.
  3. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    French RAF --where were you?

    This seems like a 1-2 sucker punch without an organized effort to defend.

    Someone kindly tell me it ain't so....

    73
    Chip W1YW
     
  4. 2E0NXE

    2E0NXE Ham Member QRZ Page

    I totally agree
    Paul E20NXE
     
  5. K8BPZ

    K8BPZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Has anyone thought how this will affect ARES and Skywarn systems? Local governments and citizens that depend on 2 meter for warnings? Why don't we just all turn in our licenses and say to hell with it? Isn't that what they are wanting? The liberal marxists and their idealistic "freedoms" of "all pigs are equal but some are more equal than others" concept? I am very concerned about this. I cannot afford another radio and I know others that cannot either that are very active in emergency services. Help me here to understand this. Why does France want OUR frequencies when we are all over here? When in US, they can simply change to normal aeronautical frequencies. Can't they?
     
    MM6KHA likes this.
  6. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Right now this is just for Euro countries... the point is that we (US)should be alarmed by the process and prospects here Stateside also.

    2M FM in Euro is far less used than in the US.

    Even if it goes thru it would not effect Stateside 2M for us. But the precedent would be hard to stop in the future in US.

    73
    Chip W1YW
     
    WQ4G likes this.
  7. KA2IRQ

    KA2IRQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    I am confident that there is a lot going on behind the scenes that we are just not privy to yet. However, the IARU and European member societies have been making a big noise about this. It is just that the ITU doesn't really care what that tiny population of hams think in the big scheme of things, and the billions and billions of dollars all this stuff represents. If you're going down the road of "the ARRL sucks because they're not doing anything" then I would say you may misunderstand that this is currently a European issue, not a US issue, and while influential, the ARRL would still be outside of its scope on this. In that light, what organized effort would you propose?
     
    N5YCK, N2AMM and W1YW like this.
  8. K8BPZ

    K8BPZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Keeping the frequencies they have now and developing "trunking" would be cheaper, would it not?
     
  9. KA2IRQ

    KA2IRQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    I think they're looking at this more for drones, and the whole concept is that it's generally incompatible with everything they are allocated now, so they want a four year study to find where it fits the best. Thus, they want to examine every single "Hz" of bandwidth so the scientific community (funded by the ITU) can find an answer to where their drone transmissions will work. And they're doing this under the guise of "sharing frequency spectrum" and "re-using frequency spectrum," so that other government agencies (similar to our FCC) will get on board (which is partially working).

    But what they're really looking for is spectrum to dump this technology where it won't interfere with their current aircraft. In fairness, the French proposal did not just pick on ham radio- they're picking on everyone across the board. They're trying to shoehorn their drones anywhere they can be made to fit, they don't really care who. What they're saying is "let us do a study? If your allocation is incompatible with ours, that will be revealed in the study."

    And what the IARU is saying in response is "we don't need no stinking study to tell us that your airborne drones won't work with our satellites."

    Unfortunately, the way the French are talking, they are likely to get their study because they are using language that the other agencies can relate to.

    Trunking - don't get me started.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
    N5YCK and W1YW like this.
  10. WB8VLC

    WB8VLC Ham Member QRZ Page

    There was also a proposal about the 1200 MHz aviation band band and sharing it for commercial non aviation users.

    Last month a questionaire went out to several North American and European aviation communication equipment manufacturers about a UK proposal for sharing of the upper portion of the aviation DME band which also includes the lower part of the ham 1200 MHz band, the use which is for broadcast short range wireless mics in the UK and then other parts of Europe for starters.

    The majority consensus of the aviation manufacturers questioned was to approve the UK proposal for sharing in the upper DME part of the band with no serious objections given.

    I see this as just a sign of the times and I have faced the fact that our ham frequencies are at the bottom of the barrel with consideration of importance by regulators worldwide.

    In one hand the aviation Mfg's didn't object to sharing of their 1200 MHz frequencies so I would suspect that they will be rewarded in the future with the possibility of some new frequencies for their future use.
     

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