Maintain funding for NIST stations WWV and WWVH

Coincidentally to this discussion, the QEX which arrived today has a good article on a $150 GPS disciplined RF signal generator that claims accuracy to one part per billion or 0.01 Hz at 10 MHz. One of the things the author, WB0OEW, did with it is examine the Doppler shift in received WWV frequency due to the ionosphere.

 

Well, I thought I was pretty clear about the multiple checks built into the

NR3620-CAL, 10MHz Frequency Reference, OCXO, GPS Locked, Single Channel, Auto-Cal.

And even NIST makes the case *against* their *ONE* active cesium clock being transmitted over HF as compared to the *MULTIPLE* cesium/hydrogen clocks at USNO and the *REDUNDANT* cesium/rubidium clocks located on *EACH* satellite.

(caps and asterisks for emphasis, not yelling...)

And I thought I was pretty clear there's an LED on this GPSDO which lights green only if it's receiving a good signal from at least 4 satellites.

And you keep saying this needs to be checked against the ONE cesium clock being transmitted over HF.

I guess you're unaware of how you derive a 10 Mhz sinusoidal wave from a 1 second tick and how that can be checked for error (thus turning the above mentioned LED red--telling you there's something wrong with your local frequency oscillator.)

This "at least once a year check" you keep mentioning is old style, very expensive thinking. Now the check is "continuous."

So I'll leave it at that.

Peace out.

 

Makes me wish I didn't let my subscription expire. I'd be interested in reading this article.

 

I have been licensed ham for 54 years.

I have a GPSDO that is ludicrously accurate. It is the external reference for my SDR transceiver. There is a $8 GLONASS/GPS rcvr plugged into 2 of my computers yielding internet independant +/- 10ms accuracy.

The result, the transmitter accuracy is far more accurate than humanly possible via zero beating with WWV. I now never f@rt around looking for 25 kHz harmonics of some so called calibrator (Drake of the day). In fact I recently urged the SDR manufacturer to stop squaring up the external ref. because the harmonics are unnecessary and they clutter up the waterfall!!! GRRRR!! LOL The transmitter freq. is so accurate that band edge transmission need only be adjusted for the signal bandwidth ... even CW bandwidth. PC clocks are notoriously drifty ... it is now set every few hours. All of this is automatic and transparent to me.

My friends with older service monitors set their units to me and my signal is more available than WWV.

Did I say that I have been licensed for almost 54 years? I have signed the petitions. I too, am as nostalgic as the next guy. I have even been lusting for a bug. But ... they are so noisy, which is part of the nostalgia. It is just a bug. I have nostalgia for listening to WWV, VOA and those hams whose AM signals had to have the same quality, and Russian buzz stations.

Now, I am all about getting my morse code dot/dash ratio improved at speed. Yes, there are and I have a keyer. But, now, I have a device that tells me how good my (or not) my code is. Working towards 40 wpm & it ain't easy, but might as well try to get it right.

So come on guys, the tech is there. There is new nostalgia to build. New memories to be made. The new tech really does work, works better and it is easier.

 

I love tuning in WWV...I even have it on my tiny VX-3 pocket radio.
This has been a daily 'companion' for field work, when you need to find a weak, offending signal.
RX sensitivity is far better than almost every service monitor, so it has paid for itself time and again.
10 MHz. has the best S/N around for me, in AZ.

 

I would miss WWVB because I have allot of so called "atomic" clocks.

 

I wonder if we aren't missing another obvious pursuit, in the case WWV goes away.

That would be petitioning the FCC to enable 5MHz for some kind of low power no license xmtr for local time synchronization? If licensed, then put it under the ham umbrella, we are already Federally licensed. There would be a market for cheap gpsdo devices that would be modulated with WWV-like time code courtesy of the gps. The local community would become more aware of hams and be happy that their WWV-synced clocks still function.

As far as the petition is concerned, I am betting that the general public with all of their atomic sync-ed time pieces are clueless about these possible demise of WWV. If *they* knew about the petition, I'll bet both petitions would be filled.

Wild thoughts ... it is cocktail time

 

I would be willing to bet most people wouldn't notice the HF transmitters being turned off. And I'd be willing to bet NIST would tell whoever is operating/maintaining WWVB to turn it off but keep the filaments lit and when about 1/2 the people noticed their "atomic clocks" are no longer working, 1/4 of them would figure out it's a government "cut" and about 1/10th of them would let their representatives know.

Then some representatives would look into it.

Then, NIST would say they need much more than 6 or 7 million to turn it back on and they'd get it.

And then instead of updating the WWVB equipment, they'd hire more people and give themselves raises.

This is how it works.

 

This.

 

I bought maybe a half dozen of them over the years but I remember only one of them actually keeping good time.

Maybe the clocks I bought were too cheap to pick up a good signal. Maybe I put them in places that shielded them from receiving the signal no matter how good they were. Maybe I have enough electronics in the house now with clocks that sync up with GPS, cell sites, and internet, that I don't need an "atomic" clock any more.

My guess is that given enough time that someone will make a new "chip" that can sync a wall clock to GPS time and sell that in sufficient quantity that it will be as cheap and accurate as anything that ran on HF time codes. Maybe they might actually work well enough to be useful.

I'm not too concerned about the loss of some of the HF time code transmissions. It sounds like they will still be some there, just the number of transmit sites and frequencies used will be cut back.

 

http://clearskyinstitute.com/ham/gps/

 

Most of the discussion here has been about getting the correct time, which is really a non-issue these days. But the accurate reference frequencies, IMO, are a really big necessity in today's world. The electronic world is full of frequency counters and standards whose accuracy is vital, and periodic traceable calibration is often mandatory by law. How would all this equipment be calibrated without WWV?

Hal

 

My assumption would be the U.S. Naval Observatory Master Clock in Washington, D.C. which, among other functions, provides the time reference to the GPS system, which is maintained by the USAF.

Although this has nothing directly to do with the planned demise of WWV as discussed in this thread, here's an interesting read about GPS time and its reference source (USNO Clock): https://ics-cert.us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Memorandum_on_GPS_2019.pdf

Gee, perhaps the USNO folks can incorporate the WWV radio service into their operations!

 

My new watch and best clocks are all self adjusting "atomic clocks" that use this system. You can still buy an "atomic clock" at Walmart so there must be a market and a large number of units in active use. As long as people actually use these systems then there is a reason to keep them operational.

 

It won't surprise me a bit if they find a way to power down all but WWVB, and they leave it running for the next 5y or 10y as a "compromise." And given that WWVB's power budget is several times the combined budget of the other transmitters at the Fort Collins site, it makes little sense to power down WWV if WWVB is going to stay on the air.

Given the current state of "the hill," it's also possible that Congress will eventually tell NIST to just suck it up and keep it all running. The Vegas odds on the make-up of "the hill" in January 2019 are all over the place.