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LOTW upload only / Does anyone really use LOTW?

Discussion in 'Logbooks & Logging Programs' started by NZ9Y, Jul 30, 2011.

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  1. NZ9Y

    NZ9Y Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Ok I just jumped through the 500 hoops to create a LOTW account. I did it so I could upload my logs for other hams.
    I'm not too interested in thier awards. *I* know when I've done WAS or DXCC and I dont want to have to do it 20 times to get credit for once. But I'm trying to give back to the other hams and upload my logs.

    So my first question is, can I use HRD to upload my logs without EVER worrying about LOTW downloading a bunch of stuff INTO my logbook? I'm really worried about haveing lots of dupes a few seconds apart. This happened when I uploaded to QRZ's logbook and its a mess.

    Also, does anyone really use LOTW? When my account was made, I looked to see how many QSO's were waiting for me and there were ZERO! I mean come on, after many hundreds of QSO's over several months, there are none in LOTW? really?

    I want to upload to support my fellow hams that care about this thing, but I can't help but feel its a huge waste of time and effort for nothing.
     
  2. K9ASE

    K9ASE Ham Member QRZ Page

    I do for contests I use HRD log and then transfer it to LOTW. If I could figure out how to move my QRZ log over to LOTW without reentering each contact I would do that also. I like using the QRZ log for everyday use because I'm on here whenever I'm at the radio. But, LOTW is great for tracking awards etc.
     
  3. K0SPN

    K0SPN Ham Member QRZ Page

    I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that HRD won't download unless you tell it to.
    So, you can upload all you want and won't have any problems.

    I've never tried downloading, so I can't say what will happen there, but you'd be much better off asking about this on the HRD forums.
     
  4. AA6YQ

    AA6YQ XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    DXLab's LotW database, which is updated from the ARRL web site weekly, shows 44,000 active callsigns, roughly half of which have uploaded QSOs since the beginning of this year. LotW confirmations are more likely to come from DXers, contesters, and digital mode operators because these ops are likely to employ a PC or Mac to log QSOs.

    73,

    Dave, AA6YQ
     
  5. K7MH

    K7MH Ham Member QRZ Page

    All it will do for the most part is mark contacts as confirmed in your log if it can confirm them based on it's parameters to confirm them.
    In my ACLog it will also fill in some stuff like dxcc entity, grid square, CQ zone and ITU zone.
    And that is only if you download what you have that they have confirmed.
    No download, then no nothing.
    You can if you want always go to the LOTW site and view your account and what is confirmed there instead of downloading the confirmations.

    The only way I know if that it will "add" a log entry is if after you upload an entry, you delete it from your log.
    If your log file gets lost forever from your computer, you can recover your basic contact log info from LOTW up to your last upload which has been real handy for at least some.

    Not if you didn't upload some log entries. All LOTW cares about is confirmed QSO's. If it cannot be confirmed by LOTW you will never know it was there or why it wasn't confirmed. If you log a DX station like ST0R and you logged the incorrect time by at least a certain amount (I'm not sure how far off you can be), or day, then it will not be confirmed and you will never know from LOTW that ST0R had you logged but at a different time. ST0R won't know either...ya blew it!!:(
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2011
  6. KB9HGI

    KB9HGI Ham Member QRZ Page

    I use HRD log everyday You click on upload LOTW wants you have it all setup. It will not put anything in your log. You click on download LOTW and what it does is update you log for confirmed LOTW. I don't think alot use LOTW yet I have over 1400 contacts in LOTW and only 300 confirmed.

    It did seem like alot of crap to go thru to get LOTW.
     
  7. AA8IA

    AA8IA Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    You bet they do. The reason you didn't see any QSOs waiting for you when you first created your LOTW account is that LOTW uses a double-blind method for verification of a QSO. You upload a QSO. The other party uploads a QSO. Neither of you ever see it in LOTW as a QSL unless the two match.

    In other electronic QSL systems you could upload a fictitious QSO. It would show up to the "other guy" . He would then have a choice to affirm the QSO or reject it. If he never made the contact with you, he could still affirm the QSO and you both would falsely get credit. You can't cheat that easily with LOTW.

    So don't be dismayed. As you upload your logs, you'll start seeing QSOs for those stations you have worked who also uploaded their logs, as long as the QSO parameters match.

    It's not a waste of time. Well, if you don't care about QSO confirmations yourself, it may be a waste of time. But, believe me when I say that those who work you appreciate it if you upload. You don't have to upload every time you make a contact either. Many stations only upload to LOTW a couple times a year.

    So, now that you're through the hard part, just have fun and upload to LOTW once in a while.... not much trouble at this point, and others will benefit. Heck, if you realize how easy it is to work towards WAS / DXCC / etc now, you might even feel compelled to strive for them. I'm not sure if I ever worked you, but I'll say thanks ahead of time for your willingness to use LOTW :)

    Mike

    PS: For every one person who sends me a paper QSL [without me sending them one first], I get an average of 100 LOTW confirmations. I managed to get RTTY, Phone and CW WAS as well as DXCC in just a hair more than a year's time of casual operation with wire antennas. LOTW makes life a lot easier. It's not going to replace paper QSLing any time soon, but it's certainly very useful and is increasing in popularity.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  8. NZ9Y

    NZ9Y Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Now it makes sense. Only matches show up. I assumed it would show all QSOs that had been uploaded with my call.

    So when I get HRD set up to upload, it takes care of the conversion to the LOTW format, logging in, verifying its my certificate and upload right? Otherwise I would have to export to an ADIF, convert manually and login/upload manually?

    I guess I'll do the upload every couple hundred QSOs. Thats about once or twice a month for me.

    LAST QUESTION! I read on the LOTW site something about being charged 25 cents per QSO. Really? If I have to pay to confirm other peoples QSOs, I ain't playing. Or I'll reciprocate a card for a card.

    Thanks everyone.
     
  9. M0TTB

    M0TTB Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    No, that's only applicable if you apply for a dxcc award on LoTW.
     
  10. AA8IA

    AA8IA Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Correct -- Only the matches show up.

    Correct, assuming that you've configured HRD properly so that it is able to make use of the certificate .

    I'm running HRD 5.0 build 2893, which I think is the minimum build for LOTW upload support.

    1. You must already have TrustedQSL installed.
    2. You must already have a certificate installed from the ARRL in your TrustedQSL install.
    3. You must already have a Station Location set up in TQSL.

    If you look at the screenshot, this is the screen you get in HRD Logbook when you highlight some QSOs, right-click on them, and select LOTW-->Upload.

    You'd obviously have to put in your callsign and your LOTW password.

    Under the TSQL options, if you set a password/passphrase on the certificate that you installed into TQSL, you'll have to enter that password/passphrase into that field. Some people do not set a password, and if you are one of those people you can leave that blank.

    The "STATION LOCATION" field should be the same field that you see when you are in TQSL. If you open TQSL and then click on "Station" at the top and select "Edit Stations", you'll see a list of the locations you have set up in TQSL. For example, in TQSL mine is listed as "AA8IA - LOOKOUT". So, inside HRD Logbook in the TQSL Options, I set "LOOKOUT" as my station. I don't type in "AA8IA - LOOKOUT" in the TQSL Options / Station Location -- I just type in the latter part -- "LOOKOUT".

    Once you have those items configured, it will automatically sign the upload file and upload it to LOTW when choose the option for LOTW-->Upload.

    HRD_Logbook_LOTW_Upload_Settings.jpg

    Sounds like a good plan. And, if you accidentally attempt to re-upload QSOs that you have already uploaded to LOTW once before, it'll just give you some warnings. It won't re-upload them and cause duplicates.

    Mike
     
  11. WB3BEL

    WB3BEL Ham Member QRZ Page

    But if you have zero confirmations, then you are likely doing something wrong. You might have to wait a day to see that you have some uploaded records.

    I think on average many folks see something like 25% matches.

    Maybe the time you have for the QSO is wrong. Many folks are using UTC time. If the time is wrong by more than 30 minutes then it does not match.

    Or maybe the day does not match...Or the mode...or the frequency band...etc

    Lots of people use LoTW. Especially those who are interested in ARRL sponsored awards like DXCC, WAS, VUCC.
     
  12. AA8IA

    AA8IA Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Actually, I misinformed you. If you successfully upload a batch of QSOs to LOTW, the ones you uploaded will show up [after a period of time]. You'd view them by logging into LOTW with a web browser and clicking on Your QSOs and then clicking on either Most Recent QSOs or simply clicking on Submit. If you want to see those QSOs of yours that were QSL'd by the other party, then you'd click on Most Recent QSLs or you'd checkmark the "Show confirmed QSOs only" checkbox and click Submit.

    When uploading, your uploads will not always show up instantly... in fact rarely will they instantly show up in the interface after you upload them. It takes some time for processing. Your upload goes into a queue for processing. If you upload after a big contest weekend, there are tons of upload logs in the queue and it may take hours before your log is processed. So, if you upload your log and do not immediately see any meaningful QSO / QSL info, be patient.

    Also, you can check the status of your last upload by logging into the LOTW page, clicking on Your Account, and then selecting Your Activity.

    Mike
     
  13. AA6YQ

    AA6YQ XML Subscriber QRZ Page



    Modern logging applications like DXLab provide one-click functions that

    • determine which of your newly-uploaded QSOs have been accepted by LotW, and then update your logged QSOs to reflect this acceptance
    • identify all QSOs in your log that have been uploaded to LotW but that have not yet been accepted by LotW
    • determine which of your uploaded QSOs have been confirmed by LotW, and then update your logged QSOs to reflect these confirmations

    73,

    Dave, AA6YQ
     
  14. KI4EME

    KI4EME Ham Member QRZ Page

    so far all LOTW has been to me is a big disappointment. The files are hard to upload most of the time and the respopnse from other hams isn`t that great. It`s a lot of useless effort as far as I`m concerned.
     
  15. AA6YQ

    AA6YQ XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    If you logging application doesn't automate LotW uploading, then get one that does.

    Are you certain that your evidently-low confirmation rate isn't the result of problems with your uploaded QSOs?

    73,

    Dave, AA6YQ
     
  16. N0NB

    N0NB Subscriber QRZ Page

    That is certainly possible with paper QSL cards as well. Say someone copies the call wrong and mistakenly sends you the card (it has been happening to me for a few years). The honest operator will either ignore it or return the card with an explanation or forward the card on to the proper recipient. If the card would happen to be from some place needed for some award, the shady op could accept it and forward a QSL of his own. LoTW seems to circumvent this happenstance completely. It's possible that some shady ops could game LoTW but for what, an amateur radio award? Going to that sort of effort seems silly to me.

    I finally set up on LoTW last week after years of procrastinating. I'm glad I did as I see that I qualify for WAS from this location and a former QTH. I'm still uploading log data so I'm holding off on submitting the applications for a while. If one is not interested in applying for ARRL awards, LoTW is probably useless unless you're operating from some rare/semi-rare location and receive a lot of QSL requests. In that case LoTW helps others and saves each party a lot of postage.

    Sure the setup process is lengthy--it took a week from my first request to actually getting my first certificate with Labor Day in between--and somewhat convoluted, but it assures that log data is coming from someone who verified a mailing and email address. It also verifies that log data was not corrupted in the transmission from the local computer to LoTW. So I am assured that the data I intended to send is the data LoTW received.
     
  17. K3DCW

    K3DCW XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I don't understand the "difficulty" that some have with signing and uploading their logs. A lot of programs support this automatically.

    As far as return rate, that really depends upon with whom you have your QSO.

    I chase a lot of DX, do some light contesting, and most of my daily QSOs are in digital modes. My "return rate" on LoTW is in excess of 50%, which I am happy with. That is about on par with the paper QSL return rate, so I can't complain.

    I've found, however, that those who derive most of their enjoyment of ham radio from "rag chews" and who don't really care about chasing DX or awards tend not to use LoTW or even respond to many QSL card requests. It just isn't as important to them. So, if you're spending a lot of time with rag chewers and expect them to upload to LoTW all of the time, your rates will likely be much smaller.

    It all depends upon what you and they are expecting.

    73

    Dave
    K3DCW
     
  18. AK4MP

    AK4MP SR. DX DATABASE MANAGER QRZ Page

    What you need to do is DL your QRZ Log and make sure it is in adif format. When you go to import that log into HRD in the upper half of the menu box that opens are 3 options. I know the middle option is ignor and it will or I need to say should ignor any dup contacts between the two logs. A word of of caution, If your times are off the least little bit you will get a dup entry in HRD. I fought mine for weeks getting the dups out.
    Yes it can be done.
     
  19. KF6ABU

    KF6ABU Ham Member QRZ Page

    basic technology is not for everyone.
     
  20. AH6RR

    AH6RR Ham Member QRZ Page

    I have been using HRD to upload to LoTW since HRD added that feature and it works great. As long as you use UTC for the time format you will get matches as long as the time is not off by 30 minutes or more. I use Thinking Man's Dimension 4 to keep my computer time and never have a problem getting matches. There are many logging programs that have the LoTW upload feature so find the one you like the best and use it. In the HRD Logbook if you set up the fields to show LoTW sent and received you will never have the Zombie syndrome (dupes uploaded to LoTW) I have about 2000 of them because I uploaded dupes before HRD added the upload feature. My fault but when you upload contest logs it can get confusing. My return rate is just over 25% with 10254 (12284 showing on LoTW but if you subtract the zombies) uploaded and 3657 QSL's.
    I agree with Dave K3DCW I do not understand the "Difficulty" people have with LoTW either, it is quite simple if you follow Instructions. Remember the old saying "If all else fails READ THE MANUAL"

    Roland AH6RR
     
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