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JS8Call for Emergency Communications

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by KM4ACK, Sep 27, 2019.

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  1. KM4ACK

    KM4ACK Ham Member QRZ Page

  2. NU4R

    NU4R XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    As a once AEC & Emergency Coordinator for Orange County - Orlando, FL, this is no mode nor methodology for "emergency preparedness." FIRST OF ALL, in an emergency, the duty for an amateur radio operator on call-up IS COMMUNICATIONS! You mention, OTHER PRESSING MATTERS?!? DEBRIS CLEAN-UP?!?

    Come on man!

    Have YOU EVER BEEN INVOLVED IN THE LIKES OF A REAL EMERGENCY WHEREAS >>>RELIABLE<<< COMMUNICATION IS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE?!? I'm thinking, due to your verbiage and hype about the likes of this, NOT TO MENTION HAVING TO TRAIN ALL THE VOLUNTEERS ON THE LIKES OF SWIFT DEPLOYMENT, RELIABLE COMMUNICATION....AND CONSTANTLY BEING ON THE SAME PAGE THROUGHOUT A DEPLOYMENT...indeed you haven't pal!

    Deployment has always revolved around the premise of K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) You sir are SO FAR off the charts it's beyond imaging the chaos that would be created using your methodology.

    I'm calling FAIL just the same as I did on your other QRZ video involving preparedness! In the interim, let's try and focus on what's important to get the job done for your community and NOT trying to steer folks to your PATRON scenario for YouTube.

    I shutter to go to your YouTube page to see what additional "thoughts" you've presented in this arena. Although, you yourself on your qrz.com profile declared the likes of your YouTube antics as being a "MISADVENTURE." Well, my humblest opinion declares, you're SPOT ON ABOUT THAT my friend!

    Nevertheless,

    73 de NU4R
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
    KA1BSZ, KC1BUF, K3UJ and 3 others like this.
  3. N7WR

    N7WR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    With the enhancements made to public safety communications systems since 2003, thanks to billions in FEMA grants, the role of amateur radio in emergencies in the USA is different than it was prior to then. Now most AR communications in an emergency is in support of NGO's, the Red Cross, and entities like schools which have not received such grants. I agree with NU4R that in support of those entities we need to KISS. Typically voice communications are what gets the job done. Yes there is room for digital stuff but not modes which most amateurs do not have and which require mega training to use effectively. You can thank the ARRL for using EMCOMM as a marketing tool raising false hopes and expectations on the part of those amateurs who have zero real world experience in terms of what responding to a disaster is all about
     
    G3SEA, KA1BSZ, WG7X and 8 others like this.
  4. WA7PRC

    WA7PRC Ham Member QRZ Page

    And maybe also shudder?
    "I shudder when I have to close the shutters before a storm." :p
     
    AJ4EM, KA1BSZ, KE5ES and 7 others like this.
  5. KF7VUT

    KF7VUT Ham Member QRZ Page

    @NU4R. Not sure why this offended you so badly. I didn't take the video or any of his videos in the same light as you. I believe KM4ACK is speaking of comms from a a personal standpoint where you ARE worried about clean up, looking after neighbors and all, in which case Js8 is great for that as it doesn't need the operator to be sitting at the rig to receive a message. He (I don't believe) is speaking on behalf of NGOs. They have (as you know) support levels that allow for constant voice comms. JS8 is just another tool that is great for the INDIVIDUAL operator. And also Sir, as a word of advice (which I'm sure you don't need), coming off as a total grumpy, crazy old jack ass makes more people dismiss anything you say rather try to see your view.

    73 de KF7VUT
     
    K4HNH, N5EQY, N3VQH and 13 others like this.
  6. K0IDT

    K0IDT Ham Member QRZ Page

    This is the major failing and fallacy of amateur radio emcomm. We're communicators, don't ask me to do anything else except communicate. We need pictures of amateurs communicating for the ARES letter and QST. If you get activated and show up at a shelter and they ask you to do mundane things, like fold blankets because the comms are handled, are you going to take your communicator toys and go home, or are you going to pitch in and help?

    You also seem to have problems with the distinction between "voluntary" and "duty". The definitions are very clear if you look them up.
     
    KK4HPY, KA1BSZ, WG7X and 6 others like this.
  7. WA7PRC

    WA7PRC Ham Member QRZ Page

    @K0IDT: I like your signature, "When all else fails there's beer".
    "Beer is proof that God loves us,
    and wants us to be happy." :: burp ::
    - Ben Franklin
     
    AJ4EM, KA1BSZ, KC7HDE and 1 other person like this.
  8. K4BJS

    K4BJS Ham Member QRZ Page

    I actually think JS8Call has potential. I watched a couple of videos, played around with it for 30 minutes and was making contacts... not sure if that counts as mega training requirement. I already have a radio, signa link, laptop, took me about 10 minutes to download and install the software. Wasn't difficult, I'm sure most amateur radio operators can do it. It's not perfect for amateur radio emergency communications but the core stuff is there. It kind of reminds me of the old SEDAN network (FM packet) we had in Florida, it provided similar capability.

    Oh, I'm an AEC, in Florida, and I do real world disaster response.
     
    KK4HPY, KD0QKK, AJ4EM and 3 others like this.
  9. KY1K

    KY1K Ham Member QRZ Page

    If I was brought in with the understanding that I was there for communication work and then they wanted me to fold blankets, I would most definitely return to my nice warm home. But then I am a self proclaimed heartless bastard.
     
    W1ZOT, KA1BSZ, ND6M and 3 others like this.
  10. W0AEW

    W0AEW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Where you doubtlessly would do more good than harm.
     
    KK4HPY, KA1BSZ and WG7X like this.
  11. KX4O

    KX4O XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    The peer to peer nature of JS8 appears to enable individual self-assistance in the form of loose confederation as opposed to some form of strict, top down discipline. In such environments, nature quickly sorts out the winning and losing schemes... including "top down." The winner of the KISS award evolves over time.

    The tie to APRS-IS I didn't know about making this even more interesting. If nothing else, JS8 shows fresh, out of the box thinking unique to the ham world. That this is perceived by some as a threat to the EMCOMM status quo suggests JS8 and other efforts like it are on the right track.

    "Nobody ever understands what a pioneer is doing."
    ― Timothy Leary

    “The person who follows the crowd will usually go no further than the crowd. The person who walks alone is likely to find himself in places no one has ever seen before.”

    ― Albert Einstein

    “Critics are loud, but success is louder.”

    ― Matshona Dhliwayo

    “Don't be a prisoner of the past, become a pioneer of the future.”

    ― Farshad Asl​

    If we are honest, the need for top-down EMCOMM is questionable except for, maybe, select events. Even then we hams can take care of ourselves to some degree with the bands available for our use to organize our interests and personal needs. If we take care of ourselves, authorities have less to worry about. That any of this helps the general public is a bonus, not a requirement.

    [​IMG]

    Please stay out of the way of our pioneers.
     
    KN4EBW, KK4HPY, W8APP and 1 other person like this.
  12. K0UO

    K0UO Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Just use CW
     
    VE7YE likes this.
  13. KD7YVV

    KD7YVV Ham Member QRZ Page

    First off, when I first joined my ARES group, the number one rule was never ever ever self-deploy.
    During an emergency or disaster, the list I followed was:

    1. Assess myself. Was I injured, or otherwise incapacitated?
    2. Assess my family. Were they injured, or otherwise incapacitated?
    3. Assess my domicile. Was my apartment still habitable?
    4. Check on neighbors, elderly or not to see if they needed anything.
    5. Use radio to see if the ARES net has been activated, and if so, inform them
    of the findings of 1-4. Now, that's one neighborhood/apartment complex they
    don't need to worry about.

    6. If indeed activated, deploy to my assigned fire station (a few blocks away)
    and activate the radio equipment there, and remain there to await further
    instructions, or deactivation.

    7. If sent to a shelter, do what that shelter (served agency) requires.
    I don't care if it's setting up cots, folding blankets, or lugging bottles of water.
    I'm there to serve that agency and that is what my training has taught me.

    Note, radio is not #1 on the list. I can't help anyone if I don't help myself first,
    and sitting there yakking on an HT unless requesting supplies/aid or sending the
    status of the area I am in, isn't going to help anyone.

    During one snowstorm in Kirkland, a few of the hams were on the repeater just talking
    about what things were like in their neighborhood. The EC came on the air, and while
    there was no activation, the informal chatter become somewhat more formal as various
    ARES members provided reports for their neighborhood while the rest of the hams on
    the repeater were kind enough to wait until the ARES members submitted informal information.
    Based on those informal reports, it was determined that no activation was needed and we didn't
    get that much snow, but it just goes to show you, even when you're just chatting on your local
    repeater one can still be of service. I have the training the City of Kirkland requires of me, and my
    station is always ready to serve if needed. Do I eat, sleep, and breathe emcomm every second of every
    day? No, I do not, but the knowledge and experience is good to have and my life is richer for it.
    Humans are a vocal species, and voice communication is one of the quickest ways to communicate.
    It's just my opinion (not worth anything these days) but as Scotty said in Star Trek III The Search For Spock,
    "The more they complicate the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain" and introducing all these digital
    modes can slow things down. Something happens, and you have to "set up" your digital station.
    The KISS principle works. Unless you're transmitting a long list of supplies, in my opinion, voice works best.
    Whenever I go out, I always have my HT with me. Most of the time, it's off, but sometimes I turn it on and send my call.
    Now, if something happens that I become aware of, I'd turn the HT on and just listen.
    I have yet to mess with any of the digital modes to any extent, but in an emergency? Not the time to learn digital modes.
    As for me, I'm just a ham that the City of Kirkland knows about that they can rely on in the remote chance I'm needed.
    It's nice to learn new things, and being involved in ARES has taught me a lot, but I'd rather just have a good old ragchew.
    If ham radio became a job, then it wouldn't be fun anymore and I wouldn't enjoy it as much as I do.
    As far as emergencies go, see #1. :)
     
    KW4WL and K0UO like this.
  14. K6ETA

    K6ETA Ham Member QRZ Page

    I've been involved with ACS, RACES and ARES and regularly use WL2K and FLDigi for more regional comms (which is rarely our mission, we mostly provide local comms to EOCs, shelters, etc).

    One of the organizations I support (Marin RACES) is very encouraging of coordinated experimentation with the latest modes, tools and equipment. Until recently, the leadership of the other organization (Sonoma ACS, of which I'm a sworn-in active member) used the KISS doctrine with volunteers only really needing Push-To-Talk VHF skills. Thankfully Sonoma ACS now encourages use of WL2K, Packet, APRS and experimentation with HF digital modes. It took a few old curmudgeons stepping down to bring this about.

    Thankfully, the dogma of only using PTT on VHF or HF is finally falling away and many new capabilities are being tested, adopted and used in actual deployments. We don't need an actual emergency such as the fires we had here in Sonoma to put these capabilities to the test. We have multiple marathons, bicycle events and group hikes/runs to support in the field every year. At these events we do indeed use VHF and UHF voice repeaters as our primary tool – BUT we also use APRS, Packet Radio, Extended WIFI/Mesh, WL2K, and FLDigi to overcome many challenges where voice repeaters fail us.

    Lately Marin RACES has been looking closely at JS8Call as it even allows 'dead' bands to connect us in rugged terrain using ground wave and multi-path. You would be amazed at what 2M SSB or even the 'dead' 6M, 10M and other higher HF bands can do with JS8Call. If the repeaters were down, we could in theory very quickly have check-ins on JS8Call and then direct these stations to a simplex VHF or HF voice net, etc. Using @RACES call groups, we can automatically store and forward brief instructions of that nature to any member. We can also build a list of who is standing an their brief disposition. These are some things we are looking into.

    In the end JS8Call is just another arrow in the quiver – and is definitely worthy of testing, planning and possibly deployment as, YES, an EMCOMM tool. Should it replace voice, CW and faster digital modes? Heck no! Could it augment EMCOMM capabilities in several disaster or emergency scenarios? Absolutely.

    Steve K6ETA
     
    K0AN, W8APP, KF7VUT and 1 other person like this.
  15. W7ASA

    W7ASA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Another good video,

    One of the aspects I like with JS8 is that it quickly creates a roster of who is in contact with whom. This means there is ZERO need for using time and power for long and unproductive roll calls. I don't have that kind of time or patience on a good day, and certainly not during difficult times. Naturally, all this is 'radio-apostasy' because I'm a Morse man, but if you won't tell anyone that I said something nice about a digital mode, I won't either ha ha


    73 de Ray ..._ ._
     
    KK4HPY, W8APP, KX4O and 1 other person like this.

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