John Kanzius, K3TUP is inventing again.

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by K7FE, Apr 23, 2008.

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  1. K7FE

    K7FE QRZ Lifetime Member #1 Life Member Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    John Kanzius, K3TUP is inventing again.

    In the spirit of a true innovator, John Kanzius has used his RF heating to burn salt water. He demonstrates salt water flaming at 1500 degrees Celsius/2732 degrees Fahrenheit when exposed to the RF generator used in his revolutionary cancer treatment experiments. The radio frequency energy weakens bonds holding together the constituents of salt water -- sodium chloride, hydrogen and oxygen. When the hydrogen is released by exposure to the RF field, then ignited, it burns continuously.

    Will the oil companies buy this out and squash the idea or invest in it to produce clean energy for our fuel hungry world. Will your government participate in the develop or sit back and do nothing. This could be an extremely inexpensive power and heat source for home generators, factories, cars, trucks, buses, trains, planes, ships, farm equipment and maybe even space ships. You may one day be fueling up the family vehicle with a garden hose and a handful of salt.

    Water.........renewable, clean burning and since 2/3 of our world is covered with it, there will be no shortages. John said the idea is for sale and he will use any revenues received to further his studies on a cancer cure. There is significant work left to do since the device that makes the radio wave (RF) energy currently consumes more energy than is created by the burning salt water. This is a start, now lets see who picks up the ball.

    Watch this video from late 2007 and see John's idea at work.

    Terry, K7FE
  2. WY6K

    WY6K Ham Member QRZ Page

    The issue is whether it produces more energy than it consumes. Not interesting unless it does.
  3. KI6NNO

    KI6NNO Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yes, although it still looks cool! :cool:
  4. K1CJS

    K1CJS Ham Member QRZ Page

    This idea has been around for quite a while--but the drawback is the process uses more energy that the process byproducts can produce. Nicola Tesla toyed with this idea, he had an electric car 'fueled' by a similar process, but nobody has yet been able to make it economically feasible.

    Maybe (hopefully) someday that may change, but that day hasn't yet arrived.
  5. KB4BLU

    KB4BLU Ham Member QRZ Page

    I am sorry but I am not impressed. I can break up water into Hydrogen and Oxygen using a flashlight battery and a drop of sulfuric acid (battery acid).

    It takes more energy to do this than I would get back by burning the hydrogen. I seriously doubt he is getting an energy gain.

    Using an analogy of the 3 laws of thermodynamics...

    1. You can't win
    2. You can't break even.
    3. Don't even try.
  6. W6EM

    W6EM Ham Member QRZ Page

    If his process is more efficient than traditional electrolysis, then it might be worthwhile. But, if it always ignites the hydrogen, that's not so cool. Wasteful and dangerous......
  7. N9AS

    N9AS Ham Member QRZ Page

    Soon! There is another way to produce Hydrogen on Demand and not the electolysis method. It is cost effective and could be within 3 years.
  8. WY6K

    WY6K Ham Member QRZ Page

    Cost effective in what application? Do you mean as a replacement for existing electrolysis processes? So it would be a way to improve energy efficiency then rather than a source of energy. Right?
  9. W6EM

    W6EM Ham Member QRZ Page

    There is another method being used that involves high pressure/temperature steam breaking up methane molecules. I don't know how energy efficient that one is. But, it would be storage-inefficient anyway since its gas to gas, not liquid to gas. Plus, I think its a fuel cell process, hence the H is recombined into water and the waste heat is captured and used for heating air/water.

    As far as processes are concerned, think gas to liquid, then store and burn the liquid or go back to gas prior to combusion ala propane and butane.

    If you've ever used a CNG vehicle, you know how limited the ranges are and a hassle the high pressure refuelling can be.

    I'd have to peddle really hard to generate enough RF out of Kanzius' QRO amplifier to release enough H2 to feed a decent sized engine. :D
  10. N7PLC

    N7PLC Ham Member QRZ Page

    Good to the last drop

    I could use an HF rig with a built in coffee cup warmer.
  11. NF0A

    NF0A Ham Member QRZ Page

    I did`nt know there is dirty energy?

  12. W5HTW

    W5HTW Ham Member QRZ Page

    If weight were not a factor, which would be most efficient? TUP's hydrogen energy machine, or a nuclear reactor? Imagine if you could refuel your car only once in the ten years you owned it, with a single radioactive pill. And possibly not even with a steam turbine, but electric motors.

    A good use for medium level nuclear waste. I'd opt for the nuclear solution. Not impossible, though certainly not feasible with today's technology. Safe on ships, but too heavy for cars, too expensive, too bulky, too difficult to handle, and needing high level security controls. But I would imagine a prototype nuclear powered car could be made today.
  13. K8ERV

    K8ERV Ham Member QRZ Page

    If it works, the gov will find a way to tax it.

    TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo
  14. K7FE

    K7FE QRZ Lifetime Member #1 Life Member Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Class without gas.
    BMW launches second-generation Hydrogen 7


    This new BMW is strictly limited to running on hydrogen. Has almost zero-emissions, is more economical, has more power under the hood and is kind to the environment. Perhaps the most important news is that the new mono-fuel 7-series isn’t just a pipe dream either - the model shown above is a demonstration production vehicle that will be delivered to customers on a trial basis.

    Now if I could only get my RF hydrogen generator working............hummmmm.

    Terry, K7FE
  15. N9AS

    N9AS Ham Member QRZ Page

    In answer to Wy6K: Not to improve energy efficiency as a priority method but the method that produces maximum amount of hydrogen on demand at the cheapest cost.

    In answer to W6EM: Fuel cells are actually using hydrogen as a carrier of energy and not hydrogen on demand. This leaves efficient use by automobiles a bit sluggish indeed.

    Your explanation is correct especially on gas to liquid, then store and burn for efficient use. However hydrogen on demand is mostly an answer to power plants and home power/heat usage. Hydrogen use will point from power transfer perhaps electrical to motors instead of engine use of hydrogen on demand.

    Strange as it may seem efficient hydrogen production will take heating and cooling. Cooling by evaporation is nine times more effective than cooling by water alone. Since water is the key ingrediant in hydrogen production on demand the biggest piece of the puzzel is in play.

    In my experience with LNG and the cooling with compressors and pressure - hydrogen can be easily stored for power company use.

    Now the method of producing hydrogen on demand needs four additional pieces of the puzzel. I'm sure we'll have them at hand and be able to tell the oil producing countries to "Pump your oil back into your feed bend and Eat your oil!" Soon!

    Hydrogen on demand will allow communities and home owners to produce their own power/heat. Elemination of additional grid lines will save money. Also two of the biggest problems in the world will be solved..Hydrocarbons and Mr. Gore's global warming.

    What the project needs most is a trusted custodian of the new process. Yes, I can see the government's Dollar a gallon tax on water upon transfer from oil as our energy source to hydrogen on demand.

    I certainly don't have all the answers nor do I play someone who does on TV but I often stay at a Holiday Inn Express and often save on my car insurance. So please don't give me a second thought. But please give me all your ideas so we can work it out.

    Hams still have the best ideas in technology over government.
  16. AF6IM

    AF6IM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Kanzius Snake Oil

    Dissociation of H2O (with a pinch of salt for ions) into burnable hydrogen and oxygen has been used to swindle naive investors out of millions in various "water as burnable fuel" scams. It works, and is impressive visually, but it is a net energy LOSS. RF, DC, so called catalytic electrodes, it's all been done by the scam artists. Hey, its REALLY simple: if this process produces a net energy gain then demonstrate a stand alone self sustaining engine where ONLY water is added and there is no external power source. I'll take bets all day long that Kanzius cannot EVER do it.

    As for his cancer cure, funny isn't it how one guy, if his claims are true qualifies hands down for two Nobel prizes next year, medicine and physics. Heat kills cells, and selective heating of malignant cells is great for fighting metastatic cells and leaving normal ones unharmed. Kanzius's nano particles do enhance heating when they are INJECTED directly into cancer sites, but there is no selective uptake. He cannot apply the particles systemically and have them naturally concentrate at cancer sites. If you can physically access a cancer site you can do many things including injecting chemo drugs, DIRECTLY heat the tissue, surgically remove the tissue, etc. Kanzius's process is just one of many. There are less invasive treatments including experimental proton therapies, intersecting x ray beam therapies, and many others.

    The idea that big oil or big medicine can buy patents and suppress threatening technologies is urban myth. Once something is published, many people who don't give a damn about patents have access and they WILL exploit it. Look at India, they produce TONS of patented drugs without licenses from the patent owners and they are sold in countries where the patents are enforceable. It is underground and cannot be effectively policed. You cannot stomp a good published idea into the ground and kill it. Thats not how human nature works. The supposed 200 MPG carb that GM suppressed, the supposed Tesla wireless energy transmission that the power companies suppressed, all myths.

    Plain and simple: if Kanzius can prove his water as fuel claims then he is certainly going to win the Nobel prize in physics. The oil crisis will be over. The sheiks will be crying their hearts out. Don't hold your breath.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
  17. N2RJ

    N2RJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    The problem with a nuclear reactor in a car are idiot drivers.

    Instead of just having a car accident, you'll have a nuclear disaster.
  18. W5HLH

    W5HLH Ham Member QRZ Page

    It's guys like you------guys who insist on injecting common sense and facts into the discussion----who kill a lot of promising threads on

    I curse both you and your wretched spawn.
  19. W5HLP

    W5HLP Ham Member QRZ Page

    KB4BLU has it right

    KB4BLU got it exactly right, in part

    ". . . Using an analogy of the 3 laws of thermodynamics...

    1. You can't win
    2. You can't break even.
    3. Don't even try. "

    Classic - True - A good test of Snake Oil. If they promise they can beat #1 or #2 you should immediately apply #3. You will end up better off (more money, cleaner environment, better efficiency etc). Short of someone finding the magic "ON" switch for Zero Point Energy extraction that's as good as it gets. In fact, trying to over-optimize most systems results in WORSE conditions. Entropy of the SYSTEM WILL increase - if you work really really hard to make your little slice of the universe neater and recycle, reuse and reduce you will stir up the rest of the cosmos for everyone else. Work the energy balances - most "going green" approaches just make someone else's ricebowl brown.

    Herman - W5HLP
    "Reality - more fun than drugs and legal in most states"
  20. W2JGA

    W2JGA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Get a boat anchor!:D
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