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IARU Succeeds at CEPT - Quashes French 2m Proposal

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by W0PV, Aug 30, 2019.

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  1. K9GLS

    K9GLS Guest

    Sorry. I never thought the sky was going to fall.
     
  2. VK3VM

    VK3VM XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    De-regulation ultimately means no regulation.

    Commercial interests always circumvent attempts at deregulation for commercial gain.

    Yet there mys always be a balance between excessive regulation (i.e P5) and effectively no or ineffectual regulation (i.e VK).
     
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  3. W1YW

    W1YW Ham Member QRZ Page

    Actually it was.... the appropriate folks in the appropriate positions killed it in the bud;-)
     
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  4. KB6DAN

    KB6DAN XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    <quote> Hoover, who was a quite capable engineer and administrator but a lousy political figure....</quote>

    Gosh I wish Europe had a better grasp of American History. Hoover would have been viewed as a great President if not dealt a bad hand. By 1932 the Recession had started to turn around. It was FDR's head first dive into Socialism that drove the economy deep into Depression. We as a Republic have been suffering for it since.
     
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  5. W8LV

    W8LV Ham Member QRZ Page

    Well Well Well... It looks like Thales didn't leap out of a Giant Rabbit, and take the castle by complete suprise afterall... But if you think that they (or someone else) won't try it again (perhaps by attempting to leap out of a Giant Badger) in a FUTURE WRC, then you are just kidding yourself.
    Physics is Physics, and the 2 Meter Band is a potentially VERY lucrative place for Commercial use. Worth MANY Millions of Dollars! And if we don't continue to Speak to Power? We'll eventually lose it.
    Will Future National and International Policy makers treat the Amateur Radio Bands like National Forest Preserves and World Heritage Sites? Not without National and International representation of Amateur Radio at EACH and EVERY WRC Table!
    Let's face it, Crisis was averted by the IARU, RSGB, ARRL, etc. But we don't have an IARU without the respective national groups... A very good reason to consider joining whatever National Amateur Group you have in your respective jurisdiction.
    Because DESPITE the ARRL detractors, if a Hundred years ago, HPM didn't keep HIS Watch, we wouldn't be here. So as a Moral Argument: Today, this IS Our Watch. Can we do any less?

    73 DE W8LV BILL
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
  6. W8LV

    W8LV Ham Member QRZ Page

    Not so fast... It was people borrowing on margin that made it crash. Saying differently is akin to blaming the ENTIRE 08/09 crash on Bernie Madoff. But there were a lot of books being cooked. And a lot of accountants who didn't go to PRISON but should have. And now? The Deck is Awash, AGAIN! And we all pretend that either it's NOT Awash, or that we are suprised, or Sadder Yet? BOTH.

    And still the band plays on...

    73 DE W8LV Bill
     
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  7. KD8ZM

    KD8ZM Ham Member QRZ Page

    It's odd that they didn't get FDR to write this, considering that he had been president for 3 years at the time former president Hoover wrote this in 1936.
     
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  8. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    Note as @SM0AOM eloquently illustrated in post # 8 "... the great Hiram Percy Maxim understood, and he joined forces with Secretary of Commerce Herbert Hoover in the mid 20s. Hoover, who was a quite capable engineer and administrator but a lousy political figure, made up some early spectrum regulation, "the Hoover Plans" which became the template for the first really international spectrum allocation conference in Washington 1927."

    So HPM and HH were soul mates so to speak, the latter becoming President was icing on the cake. Also, I would question if FDR would have shared the same outlook toward amateur radio and spectrum policy. This is why I added the italicized note to the signature that Hoover was a Republican.

    Regarding political parties and spectrum policies, while not taking sides, it seems ironic to me that back in the late '20's, Hoover, a Republican, took the initiative to support regulation that preserved amateur radio at that time, while later in the 80's Reaganomics kicked off a huge fad era of trickle-down supply-side deregulation, while following that in the '90's a Democrat signed controversial legislation that further liberalized telecommunications, which back-fired in many ways.

    Today, after many other serious failures of poorly executed deregulation in several industries, ie, financial services, electric power distribution, etc some leading to recessions and environmental disasters, that political football just keeps being tossed around. However I feel the fast growing distrust and dissatisfaction regarding consequences of those economic principles has now crossed a threshold in free society and a plurality of later generation consumer-voters are fed up.

    Actions and movements such as trade war tariffs, the BREXIT phenomena, are symptomatic and indicative of popular unrest with inept deregulation and liberalization policies, the biggest experiment being the EU, and those social-political pressures may eventually coerce a refocusing of any future attempts, even in spectrum management.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  9. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    I also agree with @SM0AOM that there are probably way too many pencil-necked lawyer-MBA's and other non-technical pro's well embedded into the "Deep State" bureaucracies of the world right now. But they are not all stupid, unreachable or evil, some do have a more objective tech background, and outside of the dim prospect a global oligarchy trashing democracies and international treaties (leading to possible aggressive conflict) I am optimistic they will heed the wake up calls.

    Boy the way Glen Miller played,
    Songs that made the hit parade,
    Guys like us we had it made,
    Those were the days,
    And you know where you were then,
    Girls were girls and men were men,
    Mister we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again,
    Didn't need no welfare states
    Everybody pulled his weight,
    Gee our old Lasalle ran great,
    Those were the days

    73, John WØPV

     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  10. KQ6XA

    KQ6XA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Here in the 21st century, we again see the rise of the same kinds of corrupt regimes that were against Amateur Radio at its birth... dictatorships, oligarchies, capitalistocracies, fascists, authoritarians, and nationalists... which are again exerting their control over much of our international and national spectrum decision-making processes.

    The old 20th century public-benefit spectrum allocation philosophy --which the Amateur Radio Service is a beneficiary of-- has lost its power to "convince" within the new 21st century paradigm.

    Amateur Radio Service's bands of spectrum were once like a sacrosanct mythical public trust or inter-national park property.

    Now, Amateur Radio spectrum has all been converted into leased land that is subject to re-zoning or re-sale to the highest bidder every few years.

    If it expects to exist with substantial spectrum for another century, Amateur Radio Service must find a path to higher "perceived value" in the spectrum allocation arena.

    Oligarchies and capitalistocracies don't care about the ham radio "hobby" because it has no monetisable value to them.

    Sure, the hobby people will try to argue that they have that "international goodwill" thing.
    A quaint notion of zero value since the internet. :rolleyes:

    But, Amateur Radio "Service", still actually owns 3 things of "value" that it can use to "pay for the spectrum" it leases:
    1. communications disaster backup,
    2. communications technology training/education, and
    3. communication technology advancements.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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  11. PA0MHS

    PA0MHS Ham Member QRZ Page

    Parks accessible for the public are also of no monetary value to "Oligarchies and capitalistocracies". Yet our governements see the benefits of these parks for the public, so they don't sell them to investors to make money of it. So why is the radio spectrum any different? Amateur bands can be compared to parks, accessible for the public, just of the benefit of the public. In my opinion amateur bands have the same right of existence as any other public asset.
     
  12. SM0AOM

    SM0AOM Ham Member QRZ Page

    You raise quite valid points, and they are very much in line with both my amateur radio and professional views of 21st-century spectrum regulation.

    To start with the "topic at hand", I have to first read the minutes of the CEPT Ankara meeting, and speak with officials that went there in order to form an opinion of what made the 144-146 MHz proposal disappear as a possible WRC-23 agenda item.
    I am however of the general opinion that there may be other considerations than "warm feelings for amateur radio" that guided this decision.

    Regarding the current and future relevance of amateur radio in a world ruled by, sometimes corrupt and biased, lawyers and MBA:s my views are as follows:

    • communications disaster backup,

    A constantly diminishing relevance in most developed countries.
    Modern emergency communications and disaster management procedures
    differ so much from amateur radio practices that it becomes increasingly difficult
    to make productive use of amateur radio.
    Also, the ageing amateur population and the uncertainty of its availability makes Authorities increasingly reluctant;
    • communications technology training/education, and

    Amateur radio does provide "hands-on training", but the diminishing numbers of amateurs below retirement age make the training aspects less relevant than yesteryear.
    The University radio clubs, once flourishing with activity, have very much curtailed their operations, partly due to lack of free time for the students, partly due to lack of interest.
    All too often if amateur radio is mentioned to University teaching staff and administrators. you usually get a strange look in return and the comment "do they still do this";
    • communication technology advancements

    Some amateurs are indeed involved in R&D, but on a smaller scale percent-wise than yesteryear. Today's R&D activities are usually conducted on a scale and with an amount of resources and manpower that make amateur contributions vanish into the noise.
    There still are innovations and developments to be made, but not so prominent as those made by amateurs in the 30s and 40s.

    Also, the "Luddite" aspects of current amateur radio should not be underestimated,
    one can just take the organised efforts to stop progress in HF data communications as one example. This form of in-fighting performed in plain view of the regulators looks quite bad, especially in the international perspective.

    Taken together, amateur radio needs better arguments to be considered relevant in the 21st century.

    One aspect that has not been so much addressed is the "image problem" of amateur radio.

    Not too long ago, the radio amateurs in general was considered to be an asset to society, and to be quite well-behaved and competent people.

    Now, too many see radio amateurs as "weirdos" or "old men playing with radio".
    One such aspect is that when there are RFI incidents involving the public affecting amateur radio spectrum use, the complaints from the radio amateurs are dismissed
    in an increasing rate.

    At the time of writing, complaints about solar power installations making the HF spectrum unusable in some locations have been filed.

    The owners of the installations have retaliated, making public statements that
    "old men playing with radio" are impeding the "green energy transition", and if
    "they want to continue to play with radio, they should do it elsewhere".
    To make it even worse, the RF exposure card has been played out by some,
    stating that EM radiation from radio amateurs may cause cancer in the neighbourhoods.

    In theory, current EMC Directives and national laws protect the radio amateur from RFI
    from e.g. solar energy systems, but the reality is different.

    To my knowledge, no cases have reached the courts here, but if a precedent set in
    Norway a few years ago will continue, we may be in deep trouble.
    In this case, a radio amateur who was severely troubled by RFI from a neighbour's plasma TV was able to get an administrative order for the neighbour to remove the TV.
    This was in accordance with Norwegian law and the EMC Directive.

    But the neighbour managed to overturn the decision in higher court, by stating that amateur radio was irrelevant in comparison to the benefit for them (= the general public) to use a TV of their choice, regardless of it interfering with amateur radio spectrum use.

    Apparently, the courts and the public generally see it in the way that a hobby performed by a few "smelly old men in anoraks" has to step down in comparison to other users of the radio spectrum and electronic communications.

    The future will tell how much relevance the regulators will consider from the
    "glorious past" of amateur radio when deciding about privileges in the years to come.

    73/
    Karl-Arne
    SM0AOM
     
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  13. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    The IARU has adopted the tag line "The Greatest Of All Scientific Hobbies" for a good reason.

    While it may be literally connectable to spectrum policy, limiting the ARS as contributing to "communications" factors only is neglecting a broader educational and inspirational benefit it often brings. I would suggest interjecting the word "other" into your list, ie,

    communications and other technology used in disaster backup
    communications and other technology training/education
    communication and other technology advancements.

    Of course the ARS breeds a valuable core for EMCOMM communications. (includes Preppers) Of course there are fewer advancements in communications technology now that are attributed directly to amateur radio. The low hanging fruit has been picked. But there are still many contributions from amateurs that are indirectly connected.

    Reviewing history, current events, and especially browsing QRZ biographies, there is ample proof that Amateur Radio, has been and is a critical starting place or adjunct for many individual careers and groups that still producing relevant communications tech advancements.

    But it shouldn't be neglected there has always been and are many within the ARS community that contribute with applications outside those directly related to communications. And they started, or ended up in their "second acts", as radio amateurs.

    The ARS is increasingly aligned with the Maker Culture, Citizen Science, and academia, as communications support for non-radio related R&D, bringing added legitimacy to those similar activities that also foster skills, knowledge, and careers that go way beyond just those necessary for supporting wireless telecoms.

    Electronics and associated radio comms training is just the start. Techniques gleaned from ARS activity can be and are applied to many applications that broaden into wider ranging physics, astronomy and aerospace, environmental sciences, chemistry-materials and mechanical engineering. Even situations involving biology and medicine.

    IMO that message and image just needs to be broadcast to the public better while it also is infused into legal, political, and international relations leadership.
     
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  14. KQ6XA

    KQ6XA Ham Member QRZ Page

    It is 2019, and IARU should probably change their outdated 20th century motto.

    "Hobby" is now the ammunition that spectrum competitors use to devalue Amateur Radio's claim to its bands.

    The new IARU motto should be a catchy phrase which captures these essential ingredients:

    1. "self-training"
    2. "technical investigations"
    3. "radio technique"
    4. "amateur satellite" or possibly "amateur space communications"
    5. "service"
    Those are the concepts that give Amateur Radio Service a seat at the table in the Table Of Allocations.

    ITU RR Article 1 (definitions) says:

    • 1.56 amateur service: A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, by duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.
    • 1.57 amateur-satellite service: A radiocommunication service using space stations on earth satellites for the same purposes as those of the amateur service.

    ITU RR Article 25 says:

    Amateur services
    Section I − Amateur service
    25.1 § 1 Radiocommunication between amateur stations of different countries shall be permitted unless the administration of one of the countries concerned has notified that it objects to such radiocommunications. (WRC-03)
    25.2 § 2 1) Transmissions between amateur stations of different countries shall be limited to communications incidental to the purposes of the amateur service, as defined in No. 1.56 and to remarks of a personal character. (WRC-03)
    25.2A 1A) Transmissions between amateur stations of different countries shall not be encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning, except for control signals exchanged between earth command stations and space stations in the amateur-satellite service. (WRC-03)
    25.3 2) Amateur stations may be used for transmitting international communications on behalf of third parties only in case of emergencies or disaster relief. An administration may determine the applicability of this provision to amateur stations under its jurisdiction. (WRC-03)
    25.5 § 3 1) Administrations shall determine whether or not a person seeking a licence to operate an amateur station shall demonstrate the ability to send and receive texts in Morse code signals. (WRC-03)
    25.6 2) Administrations shall verify the operational and technical qualifications of any person wishing to operate an amateur station. Guidance for standards of competence may be found in the most recent version of Recommendation ITU-R M.1544. (WRC-03)
    25.7 § 4 The maximum power of amateur stations shall be fixed by the administrations concerned. (WRC-03)
    25.8 § 5 1) All pertinent Articles and provisions of the Constitution, the Convention and of these Regulations shall apply to amateur stations. (WRC-03)
    25.9 2) During the course of their transmissions, amateur stations shall transmit their call sign at short intervals.
    25.9A § 5A Administrations are encouraged to take the necessary steps to allow amateur stations to prepare for and meet communication needs in support of disaster relief. (WRC-03)
    25.9B § 5B An administration may determine whether or not to permit a person who has been granted a licence to operate an amateur station by another administration to operate an amateur station while that person is temporarily in its territory, subject to such conditions or restrictions it may impose. (WRC-03)


    RR25-2 CHAPTER VI
    Provisions for services and stations
    Section II − Amateur-satellite service
    25.10 § 6 The provisions of Section I of this Article shall apply equally, as appropriate, to the amateur-satellite service.
    25.11 § 7 Administrations authorizing space stations in the amateur-satellite service shall ensure that sufficient earth command stations are established before launch to ensure that any harmful interference caused by emissions from a station in the amateur-satellite service can be terminated immediately (see No. 22.1). (WRC-03)​
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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  15. W0PV

    W0PV Ham Member QRZ Page

    Excellent.

    Slightly rearranged, the list could form an acronym -> IARU S.T.A.R.S.

    Might be overdue to retire that old ARRL diamond knock-off too.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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