HSMM-MESH

I really support what the HSMM-Mesh team is doing for Amateur Radio and we have probably only scratched the surface as to how to apply this in an Amateur Radio context. I hope the team keeps up the good work.

However, as a practicing professional in the field of cryptography, I don't buy the "its encrypted to keep the riff-raff out/secure the network" so it is OK for Amateur Radio use. That would be the topics of authentication and perhaps non-repudiation, but not encryption. I know is this a well worn thread on many forums that rages on, mostly by opinionated but ill informed people, so perhaps it is time to ask the FCC for a Request for Ruling to see if they view this type of encryption as violating part 97 or not. There has been the lingering question that if the PSK or equivalent is known within the Amateur Radio circle and therefore known to the FCC, could it be viewed more as a data protocol since all Amateur Radio operators can equally encode/decode the data streams?

Meanwhile, concerned Amateur Radio operators can side step this entire issue by operating the system as Part 15 devices by not boosting power and not altering the frequencies outside of the normal WiFi spectrum.

- Glenn DJ0IQ and W9IQ

 

Thanks man! Yeah, that's why I posted it, I just could not believe that many Hams knew nothing about it! It's perfect for what we do, and although you can use part 15 power, once you modify antennas, you are no longer part 15. Besides that, WE as amateur radio licensees have access to frequencies that are not saturated with part 15 traffic! The hardware is extremely inexpensive, the setup is very easy, all together it's a great deal!

 

Glenn: Currently there is NO encryption, however, it has been determined that encryption in this use (for the links) is ALLOWED.
You are not obscuring anything except access. The encryption keys also do not need to be public either. I had worried about that aspect, and after some research was happy to find that out.

Encryption is not really that important IF we are using amateur frequencies, and besides that, the connection is NOT "Wi-Fi" it's OLSR and wont interoperate with a WiFi connection from a laptop. It's more like a bridge. All devices using the mesh are Identified by Callsign automatically.

Obviously people using the system would have to adhere to the standard FCC rules regarding content. It's not to be used as a standard internet connection for music, commerce, etc, but you can use it so send video, pictures, general stuff, communications, software, linking to remote radios/computers, etc... -and obviously no financial transactions.

 

I encourage anyone who is interested to get a couple WRT54GL routers and try it. It is a great project for a club. You can start with 2 or 3 routers (nodes) with the stock antennas and experiment with sharing services from your computer or web cam connected on one node to computers connected to the other nodes.

How about the next time your club does a ham radio presentation or demo, try remote controlling the HF rig in your vehicle through the HSMM-MESH. Now that's cool.

The possibilities are endless.

Doug
AE5HE

 

I'm all for running it under Part 15, but everyone keeps saying "part 15 power" but doesn't Part 15 limit ERP, not TX wattage?

So if you add a gain antenna, you must reduce transmit power, right?

 

2.4 Ghz part-15 does have an EIRP limit, but also a PEP limit of 1 watt, plus 6db gain for a max of 4 watts EIRP, or 36dBm...
Under part-15 you can use higher gain antenna's but have to back down the transmitter power to maintain that 4 watts EIRP power limit...

If I am off on any of those numbers I'm sure someone will correct me... But as far as I know that's the part-15 2.4 ghz wifi power limit

So yeah you got it pretty well dead on

I almost forgot... Point to point directional links are allowed 1 watt pep, with 6 db of gain under part 15 as well...

There is a good deal of antenna information that can be found here...
http://www.wlanantennas.com/faq.php
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I'm not trying to "plug" the business or advertise for them, I just think that they have a good deal of information for anyone interested in 2.4 ghz microwave antenna's
[/FONT]

 

"If one mesh node has it's WAN port plugged into an Internet feed, and a config change, it can provide Internet to all mesh members."

This capability bothers me a little. Since commercial advertising and other commercial content is pervasive on the internet, seems like an internet connection would be an almost certain way to run afoul of Part 97.

 

Well, hams have run internet to packet gateways since the 1980's. What you are referring to is the Web.

Anyway since this thread came up, I wanted to point out that there are now two suppliers of 802.11 radios that are capable of operating in the lower portion of the 70 cm band. This fits nicely in underused ATV space, using a 5 MHz channel width. Another option is 3 GHz. I bring these up, because while 2.4 GHz gear is cheap and a good place to get started.... in urban areas most will find it is quite crowded and the noise floors are high.

See:
http://doodlelabs.com/products-and-services.html#Amateur
http://dl.ubnt.com/newsletters/0123a.html
http://www.xagyl.com/store/product.php?productid=16450&cat=0&page=1

 

HSMM-MESH on Video

We spent more than a bit of time video recording the HSMM-MESH demonstrations at the ARRL National Convention in Plano Texas last June for the new ARRL video "The DIY Magic of Amateur Radio" that I and my crew produced. If you want to see HSMM-MESH in action, and meet some of the great hams in Texas who are pioneering this exciting aspect of ham radio, take your web browser to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxuEXdq_EG0 -- and enjoy the video.

 

One of the EASIEST ways to start playing with HSMM-MESH is ARRL Field Day.
Drop a node at each logging laptop; setup one laptop with the main database; point the other laptops to the main laptop's NODE.
Start logging.
No WEP key hassles, no wires across the field/room/etc (just from the node to the laptop, and power).

And for those who like challenges, use standard power (79mW) into a 24dBi dish, and see how far you can shoot it.
I personally have been in on a 6 mile test, without even trying too hard. Just pointed the dish and it linked.

And races with IP cameras and a projector back at Race HQ is always a big hit.

 

From http://hsmm-mesh.org/ :
"For $60 you will not be able to find a more capable radio than that contained in a WRT54G."

I see these WiFi routers regularly at thrift stores for $5 - $8
Look for v1 thru v4

If you really want to spend $60 for one,
contact me...LOL

 

"Your son or daughter probably knows how to steal the neighbors WI-FI. This project should be a breeze for them." Las Vegas HSMM-MESH

 

I asked the question if encryption is involved in HSMM-MESH. Lee, W5LMM, responded that the links are encrypted and now Jim, K5KTF says that they are not. I would appreciate clarity on this point. In particular, to support this discussion you should definitively answer the question – “Is the transported data stream encrypted while transmitted via RF?”.

Many people establish their position on encryption in Amateur Radio based on an August 2006 article in CQ. “Data Encryption is Legal!” (http://hsmm-mesh.org/images/stories/DataEncryptionIsLegal.pdf) . The conclusions of this article relative to part 97 are subjective but more importantly, in my opinion they are based on incorrect statements, assumptions, and logic regarding encryption and authentication. It is unfortunate that what I believe to be a technically flawed article ever made it into the main stream of Amateur Radio. Those who use this article as “proof” that encryption is allowed by the FCC regulations are on very shaky technical and legal grounds in my opinion.

We can say with certainty that the FCC has not issued a ruling regarding the use of encryption in a part 97 application. The short path to resolving this is to ask for an official ruling from the FCC. Until then people will continue to line up on each side of the isle with claims of absolute certitude as to their speculative or analytical position. If you are interested in participating in such a filing, please PM me on my QRZ email address.

Meanwhile it would prove helpful for those on this thread to distinguish the need for authentication (confirm the identity of a party / device) in order to grant/restrict access to an HSMM-MESH verses the need to use encryption (obscure the content / meaning of a message). Based on statements made earlier in this thread, it appears that some assume you need to use encryption to achieve authentication. This is definitely not the case. This then raises the question: If encryption is not required, why is it being used?

Glenn DJ0IQ and W9IQ

 

To keep non-amateurs from utilizing the links. The keys are publicly published.

 

Hi Corey,

Encryption is not needed to keep a non-amateur from utilizing the links. That is the job of authentication - not encryption.

- Glenn DJ0IQ and W9IQ