Hams -- File Written Testimony on HOA Restrictions!!

I had to sue people in my neighborhood who were using their property as a fraternity house with all kinds of crap thrown out in the yard. We sued and eventually their property was foreclosed on. If we had not had the covenants, we would never have gotten rid of them.

But in most cases people buy property but are never told their are covenants. They figure it out after they're already in the house when they buy a garden shed and learn they can't set it up. They feel screwed, and rightfully so. Realtors will NEVER volunteer about the covenants. Instead some actively work against telling you about them because they might lose the sale.

So, the secret is this. If your property has covenants, you can usually get an exception if you ask the HOA. If you have HOA nazis then you can sometimes sue and get the restrictions lifted if you have a good rationale.

If you are going to buy a house, the first thing you should do is go to the recorder of deeds and find out if there are any deed restrictions on the property. If there are, move on and buy someplace else. The real pincher in the law is that if the restrictions are recorded, and you buy the property, even if you don't know in fact, you are deemed to know by virtue of the fact that it is recorded. So, a word to the wise, investigate before you buy.

I believe that the Congress could fix this with about 3 lines of statute: "This section pre-empts all state law, including private contracts and deed restrictions, that prohibits the erection of any antenna used by an amateur radio operator with a validly-issued FCC license."

Just my two cents worth; probably overvalued.

 

Like I mentioned, I wouldnt go into any purchase of any home that involves any HOA. But as a person who worked both times at the WTC, especially on Sept 11th, I dont know where the belief arose that the communications system was impacted on that day. It wasnt...

Were there people that stepped up in all forms from all agencies, both volunteers and paid organizations? Yes... Were there a few hams that were there, and participated in helping along? Yes. They were cleared out, once the city was able to get together their Operations center. That wasnt because of a "Communication Failure" it was because of a "Command Failure" since several top officials, especially from the Fire Dept, were killed in the initial collapse. The communication system for the City were not in those buildings, actually they are spread apart throughout the 5 boros, with the center of communications at the time, for the Police Dept in Manhattan, the Fire Department had each system for each boro in each boro and EMS was in brooklyn and queens. All the repeater systems were in different parts of the city, and the receiver systems were everywhere. So contrary to popular belief among amateurs and perhaps some of the propaganda, the Communications system was up and running. Dont believe me listen to the tapes that have been made public.

Having 400 emergency responders instantly killed including top officials did have a major impact on the Operations, not communications.

Having been involved in the 1993 attack, I could tell you that it was always well known that airplanes being flown into buildings as a source of an attack was always a considered possibility. The fact was and still is that its a difficult thing to predict, and once someone has control of those planes, almost impossible to stop.

Nobody was prepared for what happened that day, neither the government in all aspects, local, city, state or federal nor first responders.
Im an Amateur Radio Operator and love the hobby and sometimes participate in providing radio support with local groups, but as a professional Emergency Responder, a Paramedic for the Fire Department for over 25yrs, I could tell you that I neither want nor desire a weekend radio buff, amateur radio operator or otherwise, no matter how many courses they took through the ARRL or FEMA for that matter on emergency operations, standing either next to me or in my way or any of the paths of my fellow emergency responder.

I could tell you that some local hams were escorted by the national guard out of the area, cause they were getting in the way. I know some of them. Others came really close to getting shot or at least arrested. That was no place for "amateur anything". Want to know more, simply email me, I could tell you the truth of what went on that day, with volunteers and others who simply got in the way.

Amateur Radio is a wonderful hobby, I truly love it and enjoy it, but "its a hobby", no matter how professional anyone wants to make it.

In some parts it may play a crucial role, where there is little or lax communication systems available. Thats fine, and admirable but lets be real here, HOAs and so forth were agreed upon, and neither any form of EMMCOM or otherwise no matter how organized, or supported will probably change or stop HOAs. Congress will listen to anyone or any group that is somewhat organized and translates into votes. Whether it will change, cancel, limit or stop HOAs is probably just short of a wish..


George
N2ZNC

 

I live in a HOA community with CC&R's that limit antennas to a dish 36" in diameter and underground antennas--figure that one out! CC&R's are basically a contractual agreements among home owners, and I signed the docs knowing what I had done. My ham license had expired in 1995, so I assumed my radio days were over. After 9/11, I decided to re-license and take my case and my Icom 706MkIIG to the architectural review committee who surprisingly granted my application for a single tubular tower with a M-squared 5WL on it. It can be done if presented properly under the right circumstances. Of course my 75 meter dipole and 220 Ringo have gone unnoticed for 8 years!

I don't think HOA's should be disbanded entirely, but there should be communities where CC&R's are prohibited to allow more freedom of choice for hams and others who desire not to live in these Stepford-like communities where kids cannot play in the front yard and you are fined if your trash can is visible from the street....

Russ
KW6T

 

I bought a new home, forty minutes from downtown Chattanooga, on a mountaintop. I don't have access to cable, but I have satellite TV and satellite internet. I specifically did NOT want to live in a subdivision with CCRs and HOAs and their intrusive boards. I saw enough of them in Florida.

There were plenty of properties that I looked at that did have HOAs, but to say you cannot find a home these days without putting up with an HOA is not correct. You can find property that does not have amateur radio prohibiting covenants, restrictions, or an HOA. In my case, the covenants on my property only prohibit the raising of livestock, installation of mobile homes, or non-operational vehicles. All of those covenants are ones I can live with.

I don't think that the government should be placed in the position of invalidating agreements between developers and homeowners that the homeowner agreed to when they bought. Not all HOAs have restrictions that prohibit antennas or amateur radio operation. If government steps in to invalidate amateur radio restrictive covenants, what is to stop people with other hobbies that neighbors find objectionable for whatever reason from petitioning their lawmakers to allow their activities?

Be careful what you ask for, you may get more than you bargained for!

 

Those invisible dog fences work with a wire buried underground, around the perimeter of your property, that transmits a signal to the dog's collar. Technically, this is an antenna. So, your covenants were probably written in their odd manner to permit these devices.

 

I'm with you guys,...HOAs should be banned nationwide,...no questions asked. As N2PHI has said,...as a ham radio operator,you never know what part you will play in an emergency. IMO,we as hams need to stand ready to assist in emergency communications when the need arises and WITHOUT HOA restrictions.

 

THIS is but one example of a "condo" in the Greater Los Angeles Area. Some call it their "home" -- and it may well be just that (to ME it is just a glorified APARTMENT BUILDING); however, to OSME it is the "NORM" of today -- their HOME.

HOW could you erect any sort of antenna without the so-called "beauty" (to some Gen-X minds) of such a massive building being changed? These are massive multi-story "homes" being sold for ridiculous prices and just because someone becomes an "amateur" after purchasing surely should NOT mean they ignore the agreement they signed when purchasing.


SO ........ I down-size and buy one of these --- smaller -- not bad looking, but to ME it still LOOKS LIKE and APARTMENT I might have lived in when I was young.
OH wait! It has a BALCONY! SO now I want to erect a "wire antenna" ....even though it will be visible to everyone who lives in the place! It changes the LOOKS of what they bought! How am I any better than those who do NOT want wires and poles running all over the front of THEIR HOME? I see the "ham view" -- I also see the "view" of NON-hams who don't want their HOME looking like a jungle of wire. Some say the wire is "invisible" -- but THAT is just a HAMS view; the REAL WORLD sees ALL the wires. The 'addition' to THEIR HOME is understandably NOT welcome.

HAMS see ONE point of view! Color it whatever color you choose - but HAMS in the position of having to abide by HOA's / CCR's ARE SELFISH! They feel 'special' and in spite of being aware of a restrictions WILLINGLY PURCHASE anyway!

Let's SEE both sides of the coin --- DISAGREE with the HOA's --- but getting the GOVERNMENT INVOLVED in thses situations can not possibly be be productive. NON-HAMS have RIGHTS TOO! If I bought one of the "homes" and then saw Harry-Ham erecting wires all over the place I would be livid! MY RIGHTS were trampled because of the potential of an "emergency" needing this "ham" to communicate? "Hogwash" , says the NON-HAM! We live in the middle of a MASSIVE CITY and IF this "ham" is my sole way of communicating with the world ..... we ALL are in VERY VERY DEEP 'POOP'!

IF you REALLY want to communicate with WIRE ANTENNAS (as seems to be the contention of MOST who agree) --- that VERY WIRE CAN BE ERECTED POST-EMERGENCY in LESS THAN 15 MINUTES! The "emergency need" used to justify the nullification of HOA's / CCR's is full of holes! It IS self-serving and those who want to void the contract they signed are selfish; they do NOT care if their neighbor must look at wires or 100 foot towers! They want what they want because ...... "they are better" than the other guy!

SO ........ BUY THIS "CONDO" ........ in the middle of 3 acres and let the non-ham live likewise!

I'm sorry ........... but even HAMS KNOW that SOME OTHER HAMS CAN BE VERY VERY SELFISH and use ANY potential of an "emergency" to suit their own special "needs"! I DO NOT AGREE WITH - NOR WOULD I LIVE UNDER THE CONTROL OF A 'HOA and associated CC&R's"; however, if YOU bought knowing they existed -- you have only the guy in the mirror to blame! Don't gripe AFTER THE FACT --- just walk away and buy elsewhere! Do NOT say, "I HAD TO BUY IT" - because you did NOT! Should you become a ham AFTER BUYING ..... others should NOT have to give up THEIR RIGHTS to ACCOMMODATE YOURS!

 

We have an HOA here, and I just put up a Rohn tower. My neighbor has a retractable 55' with a triband yagi, and another neighbor is planning his tower. Not all HOA's are the same. The problem are the dictatorships that ban antennas, ban leaving your garage door open, and ban Old Glory from flag poles and "common walls", that must be reigned in. There should be a nationwide elimination of those types of contracts/HOAs. Just because you signed and entered the contract before buying the house, doesn't mean those types of contracts are reasonable, moral, or in line with basic property rights and pursuit of happiness. The argument that "if you signed it and moved in, you should be stuck with it", doesn't hold water and to be frank...pisses me off. Directv dishes are exempt federally, and so should other devices that don't have high paid lobbyists in Washington gaining exemptions for commercial satellite reception.

In addition, the same people who complain about towers, never seem to notice the 100 other towers holding power lines all through the community. The same people who complain about antennas, don't notice the Directv dishes speckled all over the place, nor the wires attached to all those power poles.

Most HOA's are micro-dictatorships, validated by lawyers with multi-page fine print contracts who have, in my opinion, ruined the American dream.

 

I am looking to buy another home after living in a rental for the last 4 years.
One area I really liked I checked into the rules of the HOA and you had to have permission from a committee to change your landscaping in the front of the home.
In another to hang anything from the home or trees that would be visible from the street or over the common fences in the rear required permission in writing from another committee in yet another area.
If you are a ham just stay away from these HOAs. Even if you get permission from one they can change their rules and minds and you may be in for a fight.
PS. My daughter now works for a HOA management company that manages some 200 or more HOAs and almost all of the rules i see in every case will not permit our antennas, particularly HF unless they are very stealth in nature.
I don't remember when HOAs started but it does not help our hobby at all.

 

Let me make myself even more clear! I have no HOA. but should some wormy little four-eyed snot with HOA fever come on my property, he will be lucky to leave without getting his *** kicked for snapping pictures and trying to tell me what to do on my own property. I've already had someone to try that, and there is no HOA here. Uh........he left in something of a hurry! Hasn't been back. When that *** starts making my house payments and springing for the taxes, THEN maybe he will tell me what to do! NOT!

HOA's should not exist to begin with for all the reasons listed by other posters; they are against everything I stand for. BUT! When you voluntarily sign a CONTRACT agreeing to stipulations and deed nonsense, you are essentially giving these **** a key to your house saying "COME RIGHT IN; I'll LAY DOWN AND OBEY---EVEN WAG MY TAIL FOR YOU"! Me? NEVER! When you grow enough *** on you to whup MY ***, then you can tell me what to do!" Otherwise....................................GIT!

J

 

This thread certainly got hijacked rather quickly. It started with a news item specifically on how to submit written testimony to a congressional subcommittees on HOA restrictions affecting emergency communications and very quickly degenerated into the usual cat fight. What part of "staying on topic" don't you guys understand?

 

Two questions;

1) Have you ever been through a Hurricane or other Natural Disaster?

2) If you've never lived in an HOA with CC&Rs how can you base a valid opinion without having personal real life experience?

Just curious?

 

Yes. As I said, our elected representatives in both houses of Congress need to first deal with the economy before doing ANYTHING else. If not, many may not own homes with which to be concerned about antenna restrictions.

After that, I'm fine with others trying to beat this dead horse.

The first and last three words.

 

Great question. All around me, but never the center of it. Living in CA or FL alone gave me a fair share of excitement, but no, I've never had the experience of being a natural-disaster victim.

But I am the kind of guy that drives TOWARD the hurricane.

I've never eaten sh#t either but I still have the opinion that's what it tastes like.

 

Ultimately, this hearing was not on the subject of Amateur Radio, CC&Rs, and HOAs. After reading the testimony here: http://homeland.house.gov/hearing/subcommittee-hearing-%E2%80%9Cresilient-communications-current-challenges-and-future-advancements%E2%80%9D, it looks to be an oversight hearing on the failure of the 9-1-1 system in Virginia during the summer derecho.

Based upon the most recent report, the FCC doesn't appear likely to step into private contracts, and so it is looking to Congress (as with satellite dishes in the 1996 Telecom Bill) do weigh in. Having done some public policy, I will tell you that blind testimony into a hearing on a different subject really isn't going to move the ball down the field for you on the issue. For Congress to take action, you'll need three things that you don't currently have:

1) A compelling reason to act. EmCom is a maybe, but the link isn't crystal clear there. Think one sentence of 10 words or less. For satellite dishes, it was: "Satellite dish restrictions hamper free competition and harm consumers."

2) Consensus in the impacted community. Looking at the board responses you aren't really there yet. You need a clear statement of what you want with limited side effects to the 300 million non hams. Think three bullet points

3) The right data. You need data that underscores #1 and supports the course of action in #2. Since you don't have #1 or #2 yet, #3 is premature.

Until you get these, you aren't going to get any traction. Start a working group, get there, and then come back.

FWIW.

a