EME Moon Bounce on 40 meters?

i made contact with KA8ERS on 4/10/2011,at approximately 05:15 UTC, on 40 meters, 7.190.00. I heard KA8ERS send cq , then in slightly less than 3 seconds I heard the echoes return. I also sent cq and heard the return echoes in slightly less than 3 seconds. I know little in the area of "Moonbounce" and cannot confirm that this is what we heard. The prospect is certainly exciting and sure hope I witnessed an unusual occurence of "Moonbounce" on 40 meters.
Reverend James Gardner --KE5RJX

 

I sure hope you did, too. ;-) But I think you didn't. And if you read thru the posts in this thread, I think you'll agree it was LDEs, not EME.

 

Hi Jim!

You may have noticed that I made a public disclosure that I had experienced delayed echoes (roughly 300 ms) myself this weekend. I disclosed this because I wanted to confirm that unusual behavior was manifest in some propagation this past weekend. Essentially no ham should be imputed with 'craziness' for experiencing a rare propagation phenomena.

Most hams would have loved to experienced an LDE, so consider yourself lucky. The fact that it wasn't a moon reflection doesn't make it any less fascinating--or coveted!

73,
Chip W1YW

 

Maybe I was wrong, thinking that no one would do this as a prank: http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?293064-40-m-moon-bounce&p=2220915#post2220915

 

So are Rick Shepherd, KA8ERS, K9JCM-Jim, KE5RJX-James, KC2ZUR-Rich and KA1FFY-Ron all liars or dupes? Is that what we all are agreed to here?

 

I don't think anyone is calling them liars. They apparently did experience something. But they seem to have determined on their own that it was moonbounce, which is so unlikely as to be impossible. Every indication is that it is actually something else. Either an LDE or someone spoofing them. IF the whole transmission was replayed AFTER they unkeyed, and it was very strong, the likely answer is man made spoofing. If the QSO was being echoed and delayed by 3 seconds or so, it is likely LDE. The thing is, most of us don't actually know what occurred, so it is hard to guess what is going on. The only thing that can be said is that it isn't EME, since the power isn't there for that sort of thing. It would be like someone hearing his 2M FM signal come back to him, delayed by 3 seconds, and automatically assuming it was moonbounce, while ignoring a more likely explanation.

Joe

 

i just wanted to be clear on that. My next thought was to ask what could be done to arrive at an explanation, or does it just remain an unexplained event.

 

I think we would need more evidence as to what occurred. One ham here reports that he heard the entire transmission repeated after the originating station unkeyed. That would tend to suggest that another person was recording him, then replaying his transmission.

Until we get some first hand reports from multiple sources, or some recordings, we will not know. I have seen the principals post very little information, so it is really hard to say. It's really a shame that someone went off "half cocked" and posted this as a news item, with little checking up on what happened.

Joe

 

LDE's happening now on 40 here in idaho. alot of cw on 7043 and sigs are stepping on them selves.

 

Here is a YouTube video of an actual moon bounce on 40m.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5E2ntIxAsc

 

On rare occasions I have been able to hear a station short and long path at the same time. Being able to switch my SteppIR 180 degrees in seconds makes this possible. Obviously the long path signal comes in milliseconds later than the short path and makes for some interesting audio characteristics. Putting the antenna in "bidirectional" mode during these events maximizes the effect. Given the improvement in propagation, I suspect we'll see more reports of these phenomena.

.............Bob

 

You said it! It's an odd sound, isn't it?

I heard what sounded like simultaneous short/long path on 160 this winter, and on HF earlier this month.