electricial shock possible?

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio Amplifiers' started by KD2AAG, Apr 6, 2012.

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  1. KD2AAG

    KD2AAG Ham Member QRZ Page

    hello everyone i am a newly licsened ham heres the problem i moved to a new appartmet i operrate on mostly 10 meters running 200 watts pep well all my equipment is grounded amp radio power supply along with the an tenna . my amplififier is capable of atleast 800 watts pep and is a tube amp i drilled through the basemen t flloor put a 5/8 x 8 foot ground rod ,antenna has a 10foot x 5/8 rod well my neighbor in same building is complaning of electricial shock is this at all possible ?
  2. WB2WIK

    WB2WIK Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Electrical shock? I doubt it.

    But "RF" burns might be possible if he's really close to your antenna. That wouldn't be harmful but might cause slight discomfort (warming). He'd have to be really close to your antenna, I think.

    I ran 1 kW output from an apartment using antennas in the attic back in the early 70s and other than "TVI," nobody noticed anything. In our apt, we didn't even have TVI (pre-cable, pre-satellite) because I had a good TV antenna up there also and signals on TV were very strong.

    I'd go visit the neighbor to find out what he's talking about. It's possible that he could get slight tingling RF burns off of water faucets and other metal stuff while you're transmitting. But your antenna would have to be really close.
  3. KO6WB

    KO6WB Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    He may have other problems. Like a bad neutral connection on his power panel, faulty grounds or ?. It is not likely he is getting a conventional type "shock" from your operations. As stated it could be a RF exposure problem. Did you do your exposure survey? You may need to move your antenna away from that direction. Have your neighbor write down when he is getting the "shocks" and you keep a log of when you are operating. Then compare them. If they match you will be the problem. You can turn the antenna 90 degrees and that might help. Reducing power will help. Changing to another band might help. Moving the antenna farther away will have the most impact.
    Take a look at; http://hintlink.com/power_density.htm.
    Or you can get information from; http://www.qsl.net/w0jec/index_files/W0JECProjects3.htm.
    Don't forget to take your duty cycle into consideration when doing the calculations. If you neighbor is getting RF from his fixtures then your duty cycle is irrelevant because it is instantaneous in nature. The above suggestions will help.
    Hope this helps
  4. W1QJ

    W1QJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    you sank a ground rod, right? Did you bond it back to the electrical system ground rod? NEC requires this for just the reason you might be experiencing
  5. KA9JLM

    KA9JLM Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Sounds like your neighbor now has someone to blame for a wiring problem that was there before you moved in.

    You may be at risk of shock, If your grounds are not connected together.

    If it is near field RF, then that can be tested using a florescent bulb with a piece of wire connected to it.

  6. G4LNA

    G4LNA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yes, it might be nothing to do with you at all, did you ask him if he has always had that phenomenon? If he has it might be just good old so called static electricity. I have this problem, I seem to be susceptible to it, I'm like a walking Wimshust machine at times at work :eek:
  7. KO6WB

    KO6WB Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Do not use a fluorescent lamp in his house. A field strength meter would be better and he will not really know what the readings mean. Seeing a fluorescent lamp light up would probably scare him to death. Every ailment he latter comes up with, no matter what the actual cause, will be all your fault. The general public is poorly informed on what an exposure to RF can and cannot do. The media has taken a stand on this that defies factual data and is scaring the public in a needless manner.
    Yes, connect the grounds together. Use #6 wire. At the power level you're running it would be very difficult for your new ground rod to cause any problems in a neighbors place.
    He has problems and he is convinced it you're causing it. Like I said, have him keep a log of when he is getting these "shocks" and you keep a log of when you are operating. Unless you are operating 24/7 then there should be a definite pattern one way or the other.
    Good luck.
  8. KA9JLM

    KA9JLM Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Thanks Gary,

    You could be right.

    I use fluorescent lamps in my shack and they work great, If RF is in the shack.

    But if the neighbor seen one light up, I guess they would freak out.

    I think ham radio operators get blamed for Everything once a neighbor knows you have a CB. lol

    They don't even know what you have, but they will say your CB is messing up my TV.

  9. KB4QAA

    KB4QAA XML Subscriber QRZ Page


    Where is your antenna located and what type?
  10. K1ZJH

    K1ZJH Ham Member QRZ Page

    Does he feel a tingle only when you are transmitting, or all the time??

  11. WA4NMS

    WA4NMS Ham Member QRZ Page

    I think when you start running multiple grounds your troubles will multiply. The only shack ground you should need is a safety ground that should be supplied by the power line.
  12. WA7PRC

    WA7PRC Ham Member QRZ Page

    A couple of things to keep in mind:

    • NEC requires that all feedlines entering the structure must have their shields bonded to ground at the point of entry.
    • Seldom is one's shack located adjacent to the building's electrical service entrance, such that ONE ground can be used.

    As Lou and MANY others have said, NEC requires all grounds be bonded to the electrical service entrance ground. In order to comply, and prepare for a tower installation, I tied my station ground and electrical service grounds together. The concept is to have all grounds be at the same potential (preferably zero), referenced to earth.
  13. KD2AAG

    KD2AAG Ham Member QRZ Page

    hello everyone after further inspection the problem is the wiring in the appartment , and noww these people see antennas and i am the blame well i have only 6 months left on the lease so they are "sol" i have done everything possible on my end i drilled through basment for were equipment is drove a 5/8 x 8 foot ground rod were all equipment is contected but shortest possible conection antenna is also conntected to ground by 2 - 5/8 x 10foot ground rods . also replaced the the all the equipment in the shack from power supply to amplifier this was a perfect excuse for me to use to talk the xyl into new equipment thank you all who replied all suggestion helped 73s
  14. AG6K

    AG6K Ham Member QRZ Page

    •  Somebody needs to explain to the schlubbs who wrote the NEC that open-wire feedline does not have a shield.
  15. KC9UDX

    KC9UDX Subscriber QRZ Page

    You could always put one around it. Either way it would be a bad thing for your open wire feedline..
  16. AG6K

    AG6K Ham Member QRZ Page

     indeed. According to the NEC a radio transmitting antenna needs to be made of #14 Cu but #32 will easily handle 1500w. Also, according to the NEC a 240v circuit needs to have 4 wires, 2 of which carry zero current.
  17. KC9UDX

    KC9UDX Subscriber QRZ Page

    Being used to 3-phase, it took me a while to figure out why you said zero current, but, you are correct. Another fine example of regulations just going too far.
  18. KA9JLM

    KA9JLM Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Really the Neutral carries current on most 240V equipment, but sometimes it is not even used.

    The Ground is the only one that is not allowed to carry current, unless there is a fault it should not carry current.

    How many Hams have the coax entering with the Service Power ?

    Very Few would be my guess. Very few meet NEC code of today and they work just fine.
  19. N3JBH

    N3JBH Ham Member QRZ Page

    Ok i been out of this kind of work for years. But is this really in the code now ???
  20. WA7PRC

    WA7PRC Ham Member QRZ Page

    ...with great luck.

    The code in regard to ground & neutral hasn't changed. Normally, neutral may carry current. Normally, ground shouldn't.
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