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Cyber threats prompt return of radio for ship navigation.

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by EA1BDF, Aug 10, 2017.

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  1. KA9JLM

    KA9JLM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Maybe the Females or ..... :rolleyes:
     
  2. WA7WJR

    WA7WJR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Although it is troublesome that another vessel could get so close to a US Naval ship from another perspective (active AIS map) one might say it is pretty amazing more incidents/collisions at sea do not occur especially around major ports like Singapore.
    Screen Shot 2017-08-21 at 9.32.01 AM.png
     
  3. WG8Z

    WG8Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    Migration to Win 10 perhaps ?
     
  4. AK7ER

    AK7ER Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    It is alarming that the USN has had a series of very serious mishaps (collisions and grounding), however this isn't due to loss of electronic navigation, it is clearly a loss of situational awareness by the bridge team. Sure, loss of electronics could be a contributing factor, however prudent mariners never relies on a single/sole source for situational awareness. The COLREGS are very clear about safe operations of vessels, specifically Rule 2. When there is collision, either rule 2a or 2b was broken. See http://www.imo.org/en/OurWork/safety/navigation/pages/preventing-collisions.aspx.

    Other factors are reduced manning requirements, longer tours at sea, increased traffic, age and condition of the vessels. One thing is certain, it is the Captain that is responsible for the safe conduct of their vessel.
     
    W5BIB likes this.
  5. KE0EYJ

    KE0EYJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    I put my bets on a foreign nation spoofing this.

    I look at the type of ships affected, and see at least two of them that would be very important in a conflict with North Korea.

    Rumor I read was that the US Navy ship lost all control of navigation before this happened.
     
  6. AK7ER

    AK7ER Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    While there may very well be hack or spoofing attempt that could contribute to a crisis (there is also a report of a failure of the steering system floating around out there (no pun intended)), regardless, these ships are not "fly-by-wire", there are manual controls still in place as backups.

    Regardless, there are many rules of the road in place to prevent collisions at sea, even if the electronics fail. Rules for lookouts, safe speed, reduced visibility, actions by stand-on and give-way vessels when actions are in doubt, rules for crossing and overtaking, navigation lights and day shape signals, all at the hands of the navigation and bridge crew to conduct a safe voyage. Even if the ship was spoofed or hacked, there was a clear breakdown of situational awareness and command during the voyage that resulted in a collision. The master and crew of the tanker that hit them also has the same burden to avoid a collision and in that sense they failed just as the war ship did. A vast conspiracy? Probably not.

    Finally, I remember as teenager visiting the U.S.S. Turner Joy in Bremerton, WA. There was a quote at the entrance to the Captain's quarters, it read:

    The Captain represents the Ship – he speaks for it; he is accountable for it. He is responsible for all members of his crew and their acts. He does not make excuses or pass the blame to others. Since he is accountable for all that the ship does, for the quality of on board training, and for the conduct of his crew at all times, he is given full power to enforce Navy regulations aboard the Ship and to ensure that the crew behaves accordingly. In short, since his responsibility is complete, his authority must also be complete.
    FWIW, the quote has stuck with me and been a constant reminder of the responsibility of command of a ship. While I never served in the Navy, I've spent 30 years running commercial vessels of various sizes and have learned that the weight and responsibility of the 4th stripe is great and not for everyone. I mourn the loss of our sailors that have served our country and gave the ultimate sacrifice for us. I also know that the Captains of both US Naval vessels involved in the collisions feel the burden and will carry that with them them for the rest of their lives, in their new chosen career because their Naval careers are over.
     
    KI4ZUQ likes this.
  7. POMPO

    POMPO QRZ Member

    I would not be so categorical. Everything depends on everyone.
     
  8. VE2KM

    VE2KM XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    I believe the USN has started teaching this again. I teach a celestial navigation course about every 2 years to my sailing school clients
     
    KI4ZUQ likes this.
  9. WA7WJR

    WA7WJR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Yes, for about 2 years now.
     
  10. KI4ZUQ

    KI4ZUQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    You are the only other person I have ever heard that knew about Omega! We had one of those receivers on our ship when I was Navigator. This was 70-72 and usually only one station was up at any given time. Was vexing because it would have been perfect for the days of overcast. I think its VLF was used for other purposes, too.
     
  11. KI4ZUQ

    KI4ZUQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    I was floored when I read a few years back they STOPPED teaching celestial. Not like the Navy to abandon a backup. But then the new guys in charge were the brown-nosers of yesterday so what do they know. I was a Navigator for two years in the Navy and really got into it! Even bought my own Tamaya sextant! I would loved to have taught celestial so I envy you! What a treat!
     
  12. KI4ZUQ

    KI4ZUQ Ham Member QRZ Page

    NOT! Collision avoidance is best by seaman's eye and compass repeater. Has little to do with any nav system. However, it IS considered bad form to run aground while avoiding a collision! The problem with all these Navy collisions is there is not a proper watch being kept. That is an officer problem. I posted elsewhere that the "leaders" of today were the brown-nosers of yesterday and that is the problem.
     
    W0PV likes this.
  13. WA7WJR

    WA7WJR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I'm also familiar with Omega; it was also installed on some aircraft by the Air Force for a short time. But, in all honesty...most nav's never even powered it up. It was a horrendous boondoggle that was supposed to replace LORAN. It's accuracy was always questionable, and just a little less painful to operate than LORAN. At least with RDF you were likely pointing in the right general direction. :)
     
    KI4ZUQ and KA0HCP like this.
  14. KA0HCP

    KA0HCP XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    They installed Litton 211 commercial Omega sets in our Navy squadron P-3C Orion's in 1984. They required no input from me as navigator. Turn on and forget. Theoretically they might require correction if lane skipping occurred but I never saw or heard of it happening in my 4 years and 1500+ hours of flying. My recollection was that they were generally within about +/- 10 or 12 nautical miles of our actually position.

    Not bad for a box that didn't increase my heavy workload and was certainly good enough to get us back home from 1000 miles at sea. :) I considered the Omega box as a backup system to our two commercial Litton 72 inertials, the nav computer and my celestial navigation. "Belt and Suspenders". The Omega was a major improvement over the EDO oscilloscope Lorans we had previously.

    Litton 211 ONS:
    [​IMG]


    EDO Loran Control Head
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
    KC8VWM likes this.
  15. N1ZZZ

    N1ZZZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Well I've been to sea about 24 years and in that time Omega, Loran, and RDF have all been taken down. We have added to GPS to make GNSS, but it still relies on electronics flying through space. GNSS is vulnerable to spoofing and EMP from high altitude blasts. At the moment, once you are out of sight of land and the GNSS gets knocked out, you had better brush up on your sextant skills. There are no secondary systems except for inertial, but only some navy ships carry that. This is the reason that every deep sea professional mariner needs to demonstrate competency in celestial navigation to earn a license and ships still carry sextants, chronometers, and reduction tables.

    I'm all for eLoran, but that would require ships to buy more equipment, and that's not likely to happen unless it is mandated.

    73 Jeremy N1ZZZ
     
    KA0HCP and AK7ER like this.

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