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Billionaires Flee U.S. Taxes

Discussion in 'ex-Rag Chew Central' started by K0RGR, Jul 9, 2012.

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  1. K0RGR

    K0RGR Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48118502/ns/business-personal_finance/

    The first thought that comes to mind is 'rats deserting a sinking ship', but that would insult the rats. 1,800 have left this year? I'd also say 'good riddance' but their leaving creates big holes in an already sickly economy. However, since much of their wealth is probably already offshore, the impact may not be that big. At this rate, the 1% will soon be the 0.5%.
     
  2. AF6LJ

    AF6LJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    They read between the lines.
    There is a substantial economic downturn coming, that will include a readjustment of the value of the US dollar. The current president gave GM a bailout and sent them on their way to China, the FED hasn't stopped generating interest free money for it's member banks during the last four years.
    It is the equivalent of having the printing presses turning out money twenty four hours a day for four years running. Commerical properties are in bug trouble, that bubble is about to pop, along with hoards of Americans turning their back on their cred card companies.
    The real unemployment rate is twenty two percent if the birth / death calculating scheme were to be abandoned.

    The Billionaires are doing what they do best; watching out for their best interest and leaving a former superpower and soon to be third world country.

    The steep decline began with GATT and NAFTA.
     
  3. W5WPL

    W5WPL Subscriber QRZ Page

    I'm gona start buying pesos
     
  4. N2RJ

    N2RJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Even if the US$ goes down, I highly doubt we will be alone. You might think I'm crazy but I don't think betting against the US is a wise strategy.

    Those renouncing citizenship are escaping taxation, plain and simple. There is no other motivation, except for the rare few like Bobby Fischer who just think the USA is evil... and even he had an issue with his taxes.

    And when all of these wealthy people leave, who is left holding the bag? Yes, the 99% will probably become the 0.5% and the 0.1% and eventually the 0%. Congratulations, the OWS people won't have anybody to complain about anymore.
     
  5. N2RJ

    N2RJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    As in Mexican ones? From Mexico, the country whose economy is based in large part on US exports and remittances from illegal aliens working in the US?
     
  6. AF6LJ

    AF6LJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    But...
    But......
    They have a thriving drug exportation trade, it's even backed by several governments.
    Could be a sound investment.
     
  7. AF6LJ

    AF6LJ Ham Member QRZ Page

    We won't be the only one going down, remember the world economic collapse has been going on for roughly six or so years now. These things never happen over night and given how the world is economically interconnected it will include just everyone who does business with the western world.

    Betting against the US...
    I am not a betting woman, which is why I pulled everything I had out of the Stock market in August of 1987.
     
  8. N5XM

    N5XM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Meanwhile, the rest of us remain here in the crosshairs of the IRS.
     
  9. KD8DEY

    KD8DEY Subscriber QRZ Page

    The Rich have been raping the poor and middle class for their comfort for centuries, Nothing new about that.
    That's why poor/middle class people began to form Unions.

    Only thing is, that Unions became Corrupt and greedy just like the Rich, So the rich and
    their corporations moved overseas to exploit cheaper labor.

    This of course gave the rich even more opportunity to rape the poor/middle class
    to the point that the middle class in the U.S. is all but extinct.

    All they (The Rich) are doing is moving to greener pastures to start the game all over again. It's called "class warfare"

    They won't rest (Win) till a world wide caste system/Fiefdom is re established
     
  10. G0GQK

    G0GQK Ham Member QRZ Page

    Its a fact that the rich do not believe that they should pay any taxes, no matter which country in the world they are resident. Most of the problems affecting Greece are the result of the rich having dispensation from the various governments whose political members are also rich, not to pay tax. Vast amounts of cash has been removed from Greek banks in the last year and many of the better educated have left the country. As a consequence the people who are lower down the scale think, if all these rich people don't pay taxes, why should I ?

    Same situation in Italy. The government is said to have 2,500 tons of gold, and the population who have money have been keeping it in banks rather than spend some of it, and the same situation applies to the people of Japan. Newspapers have said for years that avoiding paying tax in Italy is a sport which has been played for perhaps five centuries, maybe longer.
    The members of the government, any government, are great enthrusiasts of the European Union they fiddle and embezzle with gay abandon money from the EU and are fully fledged participants of bunga bunga.

    It said in the paper today that a large pharmaceutical company which supplies the hospitals of Portugal with medical drugs have not had their invoices for hospital supplies paid for 500 days and are either threatening, or have stopped supplying hospitals until they get paid

    Britain has many rich Russians living in London, and apparently Cyprus Island is like an overseas Russian region there are so many living there

    Mel G0GQK
     
  11. KA9JLM

    KA9JLM Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    Just a bunch of politics.
     
  12. KC7YRA

    KC7YRA Ham Member QRZ Page

  13. KT1F

    KT1F Ham Member QRZ Page

    I'd never heard of this woman before. Maybe she was doing dubious things with the funds in the Cook Islands but on a more general note...

    This is only news because of the very unusual way that the US taxes its citizens no matter where they live or earn income.

    Freedom to move to another country is a basic human right, immigration laws permitting.

    Tax is not usually related to citizenship. It's usually related to residence and where income is earned. You normally pay taxes only to the country where you live and probably to any other country where you have income generating activities.

    The big exception to this is when a US citizen moves to another country. They are required by US law to file a tax return with the US and, if they earn enough, pay tax to the US even if they have no activity in the US. If a person from anywhere else moves to another country then their former home country usually has no interest in them even if they remain a citizen as most people probably do. I know this from personal experience. If a US citizen in another country wants the same tax obligations as someone who has moved from somewhere else, then their only option is to renounce their US citizenship. That's kind of a dramatic move which presses the "unpatriotic" button and it becomes news. The person from the other country simply has to move residence and that's it. No drama and they can easily move back any time. I might be simplifying a little but I think that is the basic situation here. The US really does impose an unusual burden on its citizens in this regard.

    Someone who moves overseas for whatever reason is not doing anything like the person who remains in the US with assets stashed away in places like the Cayman Islands.
     
  14. W2ILP

    W2ILP Ham Member QRZ Page

    The worst part of this is that most of the rich that move overseas owe tax to the U.S. for the time that they had lived and earned here. Both Republican and Democratic Presidents have given them a chance to avoid paying their tax to the U.S. and cheating us all.

    The IRS asks everyone if they have assets in foreign banks...but I dunno if they go after everyone who honestly makes that claim by checking a box...or only a few who may be singled out for some mysterious reasons. Swiss Banks weren't willing to tell about who had money in them..until recently...I think...but only if the tax evaders also happen to also be pedophiles or anti-American terrorists or owe ex-wives who have good lawyers...I think... On top of this the rich who flee to Europe still want to take tax deductions for contributing to foreign charitable causes that don't send anything back to the US. Its a lose lose situation.

    Wex, w2ilp (Interest Loses Patriotism)...but they have hidden principle...I think...
     
  15. W7JZE

    W7JZE QRZ Lifetime Member #84 QRZ Page

    Agreed RJ. If the US of A goes down, I'd bet a lot of the rest of the first world goes with it. There'll be more problems "there" than "here".

    < Everything else deleted. I am not ready for the cornfield. Sum it up: Good riddance. >
     
  16. KW4MW

    KW4MW Ham Member QRZ Page

    It ain't just the rich - Last week I met a gent in his 80's who swears he is moving to Ecuador where he believes he can live quite well on his SS.
     
  17. KT1F

    KT1F Ham Member QRZ Page

    I don't see how that's true. If someone already owes tax and moves overseas, they still owe it. It's just like any other debt. Maybe it's harder for the IRS to collect if the person really wants to disappear and elude them but whether you owe money to the IRS or anyone else, moving away doesn't change that.

    Moving to another country and renouncing US citizenship will avoid owing more tax to the US on new income but it won't change what you already owe.

    There is nothing wrong or unusual with having money in an overseas bank account. I fill in that form honestly every year, not that I have a lot. The form actually goes to the Treasury Dept, not the IRS. There was another similar painful form this year for the Dept of Homeland Security that the web version of TurboTax couldn't handle because of a bug.

    I don't know who does what with the information. I think the IRS would be more interested in overseas interest income and capital gains that you're not declaring.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2012
  18. KD8FYI

    KD8FYI Ham Member QRZ Page

    Why? You can't eat them.


    73,
    Ed
     
  19. N5PVL

    N5PVL Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yep, and they are taking the thousands of jobs that their activities generate with them.

    This is what happens when a small group who pays the great majority of all taxes paid are suddenly demonized as "greedy" and held up for even more.

    They just go somewhere else - where they, and what they do are better appreciated.

    Duh.

    - And after they are gone, has the economy been improved? Have tax revenues been improved by their absence? Have unemployment numbers plunged?

    This is why Winston Churchill famously remarked:

    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

    It always amazes me that in this time of easy access to knowledge, there are so many people who have difficulty in connecting the dots to understand which system gives you a good shot at happiness - and which system precludes that possibility in the name of so-called "fairness".

    - The same kind of 'fairness' that would resolve a situation where two children out of a hundred had broken toys - by demonizing the ownership - and the owners - of toys, eventually arraigning things so that nobody has a toy.

    They achieved that kind of fairness in the old USSR, in China, in Cambodia, in Vietnam, in Korea; all grey, dead places where upward mobility was no longer a part of the general vocabulary, freedom of speech something that you were afraid to talk about, and all but a small group of well-connected gangsters lived equally - in abject poverty, ignorance and want.

    My favorite part was how they rounded up folks in Cambodia who wore glasses - and executed them by the thousands - because they might be intellectuals.


    Why any adult with an IQ bigger than their shoe size would associate themselves with the shoot your own foot "fairness" of socialism is beyond me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2012
  20. N0AZZ

    N0AZZ Ham Member QRZ Page


    What he said!
     
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