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ARRL report - No Consensus Reached for FCC on “Symbol Rate” Issues

Discussion in 'Ham Radio Discussions' started by W0PV, Jul 17, 2019.

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  1. N4QX

    N4QX Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    Dude, stop. Ron's right on this point.

    Not that the point does or should win the battle, but the assertion that the user of an ACDS or repeater is necessarily its control operator is equally as daft as the oft-stated assertion that removing a symbol rate restriction opens the whole of the RTTY/data allocations to automatically controlled data transmissions of unlimited bandwidth, the plain language 97.221 notwithstanding.

    You lose the benefit of the other side's making $#!+ up when you do so yourself.
     
    K0IDT likes this.
  2. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page


    Hi, thank you for your input. I've read all the stuff that Ron puts out, plus the material in the Extra Class materials. (I'm teaching a different section this time around, and I've never been an expert on those things.) The control operator of a repeater is presumed to be the station licensee..but in fact he can designate someone else. What I asked Ron to do was to explain his statements.

    What I've learned the hard way in life, is that there are people who are sticklers for rules. I tend to be that way myself, and when i let that get out of hand, I can be a real pain in the patush for others. What you eventually have to learn is that you may find XYZ in black and white --- but a federal judge can say whatever he wants! The law in the final analysis is what judge says it is (until another judge overrules him). If you haven't read many supreme court decisions, they are a lot of fun to read, and I learned something from reading several. I had to threaten suit to a school board once.)

    So sure --- Ron VERY LIKELY knows far more than me about these points of regulations. It is very important to him. Not quite so important to me. I've watched several here rewrite the rules to suit their pleasure more than once...and others have also. You can go back through my earlier writings to find lists, and you can see where others have called people on it also. So I've learned with Ron -- ask him where he got it. I've got a page on our local website where we listed some items he stated as violations....that aren't.

    I hope that helps. I'm not trying to ignore the rules, I try very hard to follow them. W6EM brought up an interesting issue that I hadn't thought of before (non-ham reply coming from a RMS station) -- but someone eventually will come up with case law or ruling on what has to be done if that is considered an issue. There are bigger things in life to focus on, in my opinion. There are some people for whom regulations are where they get their joy in life. I'm not one of them. For 30+ years I've taken care of real humans in the operating room and I can guarantee you that i broke a few rules in order to save some of them. We have a three-branch government for a reason!

    Cheers,
    Gordon
     
  3. K0IDT

    K0IDT Ham Member QRZ Page

    As soon as I am able to post the information you will be pleasantly surprised at what was proposed.
     
  4. K0IDT

    K0IDT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Are you sure about that , or are you depending on more creative Winlink rules interpretations? Got a link so everyone can have a look?
     
  5. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    Ron, someone had to go to the FCC on one of the issues, to be sure.
    Some people try to help figure out solutions, build consensus, seek out what others know about the problems.
    Other people seem to delight in trapping people, teasing people, keeping secrets, trying to make other people look badly.
    One-upsmanship, condescension, things that don't build people up.

    We all have our failings and our strong points, and we all sometimes show more of one than the other, and other times we flip to the opposite.
    I'm often reminded of my failures and weaknesses. There is an unpleasant situation in local club that has adversely affected now multiple people and we had yet another unpleasantry just the other night. We had to form a different group to deal with it in the least disruptive way possible.

    In this particular debacle I've had to deal with multiple people with whom I had not yet come into contact, and i learned a fair bit about a bunch of people on all kinds. You've taught me quite a bit, particularly toward the start of it--thanks! I never expected to actually do what I (and my group) ended up doing. I thought it would be very, very difficult to do it, and then it hit me a way that might work. Since then, i've had a chance to see how people react to completely unexpected developments. some of us are more flexible than others, and all of us can grow.


    Cheers,
    Gordon
     
  6. K0IDT

    K0IDT Ham Member QRZ Page

    So where's the link to "Ron's wrong about this stuff" ? If you're going to put something out there without backup that's a fail.

    Now having seen some really wild rules interpretations from Winlink, like the previously mentioned "control operator", it would be interesting to see what you consider I was wrong about. You still haven't pointed to where I was correct
    or incorrect in the first question I asked. Link please or it isn't there.
     
  7. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    hi -- this post escaped me earlier on and i just happened to find it and read the enclosed article. Thanks for providing that case law!!
    nothing is perfect, you just have to do the best that you can.
    i happen to find the new viewer FAR easier to use than the old one. It is MUCH faster and shows me stuff a lot more easily.
    Still, the vast majorit of stuff that runs through my particular node is just people practicing.
    Cheers,
    gordon
     
  8. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    Yep, Ron, I'm a failure. For your point off view, it isn't there. Can you spell "tone deaf"?
     
  9. K0IDT

    K0IDT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Can you spell "post the link"? Put the link on here for everyone to check out, I'm kind of curious now.
     
  10. KX4Z

    KX4Z Ham Member QRZ Page

    I'm too tired to argue with you right now.
    I listened to your concerns about illegal stations, i checked with your section manager, verified you had been listened to...
    tried to contact a couple of the stations you were so upset about,
    I had people run down violations you claimed...only to discover you don't always get things quite right.
    I tried to explain the HIPAA applicability to you or others (I can't rmember which)
    I did all the statistics to figure out if you really had an argument about 221(c) stations (you didn't, and you have never admitted it to my knowledge)
    I read all the stuff you wrote about "intruders" and I went and studied the pages you referenced and found it was half a world away and non-applicable to our situation (had to do mostly with armies moving in on other nations, most likely)
    Then i tried to fathom why on earth you were so concerned about all these digital modes -- your petition lists FT8 and FT8call! -- all very tiring.
    Then I listened as people demanded "proof" that a modality that transfers 50,000 messages per month without ANY encryption algorithm in publicly available C code right there on github.....
    Then it dawned on me a way to actuaally do a proof of concept for it.....
    Recently i took down the list of all the people who demanded that and said it would end everything....
    So I did it -- only to have people use all kinds of unpleasant terms!
    Amazed by such response I found that someone was using a PR firm and putting articles in trade journals and using university letterhead in a regulatory dispute...
    and then I was asked to try it again.....
    so I got it working AGAIN.....
    and then I got others to actually be the one to press the key and cause it to work.....took quite a bit to get it to work
    -- and people find astonishing reasons to deny reality
    and in all of this, people are more interested in trapping people or one upsmanship than in moving ham radio forward
    -- and now they trash a Director, and a retired Army Judge?
    -- so what is the point? There are some people you can't reason with I guess.
    A world class authority -- who WROTE a lot of the stuff still being used in portions of ham radio --- was driven off by these kinds of behaviors instead of being invited to educate.....

    But wow! As a result of this i've gotten to know some really incredible people. Extraordinarily gentlemanly people who are brilliant and doing all kinds of good things in this world. For that, I am blessed.

    Cheers.
    Gordon
     

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