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RASA proposes 60m trial in VK

Discussion in 'Amateur Radio News' started by G4TUT/SK2022, May 17, 2019.

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  1. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    Pretty much all this saving the world and finding solutions to problems we do not know exist is not going to matter zip. A discussion paper will be released by the ACMA in early 2020. Until then, nothing will be done about 60m and the people that matter, the ACMA are not even listening, they are busy rewriting Radcom and preparing to look into changing our license conditions, something that taken 4 years so far.

    This will not be a matter of look we know what we are doing, we are experts on the internet. This will be a long process that is typical of everything ACMA does and it ll starts with a discussion paper about the issues. Rasa as usual is a solution to a problem that does not exist. The adults have been preparing for sometime to address the first of many steps in gaining 60m in VK, they have not been answering questions that have not yet been asked.

    dumb_s.jpg
    ^from draft 5 year outlook.
     
    VK2RK and VK7JAM like this.
  2. VK3ZAZ

    VK3ZAZ Ham Member QRZ Page

    Stumbled over this by accident
    Like all Special Interest Groups you all head off on tangents
    You are SO right and SO wrong.
    And the Them and Us is still clearly evident here.
    As for The Maritime College winning the contract, it could be that like the Labor Party on weekend WIA lost it.
    I still never saw a satisfactory explanation of the questions asked of the Deed and WIA in the televised Senate Enquiry couple years back where an ACMA representative was clearly under scrutiny by the Senator.
    As for the 5 meg band nothing you say or do here will influence anyone in authority to change things.
    And from what I saw in an online post recently seems like the old WIA bashing continues which is why I am no longer member, choosing instead to support my state reps BARG SERG and AR Vic.
     
  3. VK4WDM

    VK4WDM Ham Member QRZ Page

    It is not just potential interference to other radio networks within Australia that we need to be mindful of. 5 MHz is widely used used for government, health services and public safety communications in Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands. Here in northern Queensland many of these stations, even the low powered ones using simple antennas, can be easily heard in the late afternoon and evenings, so it would be certainly possible that VK ham stations using 5 MHz, even using low power could cause interference to these vital services.
    73
    Wayne VK4WDM.
     
  4. VK3JHA

    VK3JHA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Details of the Senate hearing transcript that started the review for the ACMA to assign the amateur radio licensing deed from the WIA to the Australian Maritime College.

    http://www.vk6.net/announcements/posts/20170329-senatequestionsaskedaboutthewia

    http://parlview.aph.gov.au/mediaPlayer.php?videoID=345368
    Watch from 11:26:38 - 11:38:23.

    With the previous WIA exam system you could sit your exam on the weekend at your radio club and get your exam marked and paperwork submitted for your new licenese the same day - How long does it now take with the new provider ?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
    VK2RK likes this.
  5. G8ADD

    G8ADD Ham Member QRZ Page

    You are still not getting the point, are you? Your suggested policy of layin' low and saying nuffin' until they deign to examine the proposed 5 MHz ham channel(s) is only going to give them the impression that there is no demand. Being bureaucrats that will encourage them to either deal with the matter in a cursory manner or shelve the topic indefinately. If you keep up a degree of pressure then you are more likely to get the desired result.

    Really, I am disappointed - I would have thougfht that Aussies would be the last people on Earth to defer to authority!
     
  6. G8ADD

    G8ADD Ham Member QRZ Page

    A while back I was listening to a local Australian BC station on 5.2585 MHz, I doubt that it was running all that much power but it was getting halfway around the world. This suggests that transmissions in the amateur service from countries which do give access to 5 MHz could also cause interference. These services that you refer to should surely have enough frequency agility to avoid interference?
     
  7. VK4WDM

    VK4WDM Ham Member QRZ Page

    These are "point to point" fixed frequency services typically 25-100w to wire antennas, mostly in remote areas with battery power. 5Mhz is good band to use because it propagates well in rugged jungle clad areas over a large time span - something that was found out during WW2

    They are already subjected to bad interference from Asia. We don't want to make the situation worse. I am sure that that some suitable spot frequencies for ham operations could be found but my point is that consultation needs to be wider than just in VK and I am sure that the ACMA are aware of that.

    Wayne VK4WDM
     
  8. KQ6XA

    KQ6XA Ham Member QRZ Page

    It is doubtful that Amateur Radio Service occupancy of a few channels
    would be more active than, lets say, the combined current HF land mobile radio fleets of...
    commercial private individuals, corporations, public, and governmental organisations
    which have existing channels on 5 MHz:
    • Commercial energy companies
    • Mining companies
    • Fisheries
    • Universities
    • Emergency Services
    • Police
    • Fire
    • Private individuals
    • 4WD clubs

    As has been shown, there are possibilities available for channels in the gaps and for secondary allocations.

    An official Spectrum Allocation by ACMA for 5351.5-5366.5 kHz Amateur radio in Australia already exists.
    Few ham operators know about it.
    ACMA has been simply holding back the implementation of it!

    The only objection to ACMA making the announcement to enable hams to use this allocation was from the JORN (Jindalee project), which under their allocation in the "Radiolocation" category, is supposed to operate themselves on a non-interference basis.
    Of course, with their newly minted $1.2 Billion funding, they now flex their muscle to exert control over all of HF in Australia, the same way a 150 kilogram gorilla does in the forest.

    From ACMA's draft Five Year Spectrum Outlook, one can see the 5 MHz story unfold:

    "Amateur radio
    Progress achieved

    Feedback from last year’s FYSO included suggestions proposing a number of additional frequency bands to be made available for amateur use, or identifying where the allocation status in the Australian Radiofrequency Spectrum Plan changed. In response to those requests:


    > Secondary allocation at 5.3 MHz (implementation of WRC 15 agenda item 1.4)—In Australia, the band is currently used by some emergency service and law enforcement organisations for mobile operations. Defence also uses these frequencies in support of key capabilities. The ACMA consulted with local stakeholders on this potential allocation in the lead-up to WRC-15. Stakeholder views were varied, with opposition to the allocation, in particular, from Defence, due to the potential for interference to its systems.

    Notwithstanding Australia’s concerns, a secondary allocation was ultimately made at WRC-15 and has been added to the Australian Radiofrequency Spectrum Plan. However, this does not oblige the ACMA to enable use of the allocation.

    The ACMA considers that the concerns of Defence, as an existing user of band, remain. Relevantly, the Australian Government has recently committed $1.2 billion in support of defence systems that operate in the high frequency part of the spectrum[1]. "


    [1] See https://www.minister.defence.gov.au...nce-industry-minister-defence-boon-australian.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  9. VK4HAT

    VK4HAT Ham Member QRZ Page

    I am not sure how things work with OFCOM, but ACMA move at a snails pace and only within the time frames they set for things. Sending them letters telling them what I would like to happen now is not going to have any effect. They have outlined exactly how they are going to proceed and that is how things will happen as it does with any government department, you start at A and proceed to B. C and D. They will release a discussion paper outlining the issues as they see them to allowing amateur use of 60m which will allow feedback from stakeholders about the issues as they see them. Thats the start of a process that will take many years if other things are to go by. 4 years ago changing license conditions was put on the agenda, and guess what, it might actually happen late this year. So, you can expect that 60m will take a similar trajectory of waiting 12 months between each consultation stage. rasa knows this and that is why their submission is nothing more than a stunt. They have waning support in VK and because they have a need to be heard, they are promoting themselves to the world in hopes someone thinks they are great.
     
  10. KQ6XA

    KQ6XA Ham Member QRZ Page

    Wayne,
    The wider consultation happened already.
    The international ITU 60 metre band was the result.
     
  11. SM0AOM

    SM0AOM Ham Member QRZ Page

    This is the key phrase in the whole discussion.

    A fact that very few radio amateurs know about is that a national Spectrum Authority is in no way obliged to implement an international amateur radio frequency allocation in their rules.

    This applies even if the allocation should be exclusive in the Article 5 "Table of Frequency Allocations".

    The only thing that they cannot do is to make national allocations that actively disrupt the operation of international safety services, such as making allocations in the aeronautical VHF/AM band for broadcasting.

    So, if the ACMA, or for that matter any Administration, decides that a certain part of spectrum would be better used for commercial or military use instead for amateur radio, it does not violate any international or national rules by doing so.

    I have not followed the preparatory work about 5 MHz in Region 3 before the WRC-15, but in Region 1 there was considerable opposition from a few CEPT countries that ultimately resulted in the 15 W EIRP power limit, as well as the possibility of those not implementing 5 MHz in their national allocation tables.

    73/
    Karl-Arne
    SM0AOM
     
  12. VK3VM

    VK3VM XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Bonnie,

    Congratulations on your diligence and support externally for your Australian Cousins (such as me) out here. It is this type of championing for progress that we need.

    As I have stated there is FAR TOO MUCH NEGATIVITY and TROLLING of individuals in Amateur Radio here in Australia (i.e. just look at the "Amateur (HAM) Radio Australia" Facebook group).

    If all us VK's all worked TOGETHER rather than arguing about this that and whose ego takes responsibility for dealing with our regulator - and who gets the cuedos for their job resume - then we would have this over by now. Sorry - but this is what is occurring here in Australia now. The nastiness and bitterness is just insane ....

    The facts are that RASA have put forward an on-paper proposal that caters for all the pro and con argument raised here. Ask RASA for it. The WIA have also lobbied. Ask them for minutes of public meetings and correspondence that they have had on the issue. Work with unquestionable FACT and have SOLUTIONS - there is a lot of blind uninformed conjecture even in this thread. Good proposals and approaches have been made with supportive documentation put in the hands of the ACMA.

    What I have stated is that as much representation and as much POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT as possible for achieving a positive gain for Australian (and hence International) Amateurs is nothing but constructive.

    Congratulations Bonnie, and please keep up the great work supporting us Amateurs here in Australia.

    [ And yes I am actively working on the 60m issue here in the background - but not knocking and trolling; I am trying to knock some unifying, positive sensibility into Australian Amateurs as well ! ].

    73

    Steve I
     
    KQ6XA likes this.
  13. G8ADD

    G8ADD Ham Member QRZ Page

    The converse also applies. In the UK Ofcom allows us eleven bandlets that in total is about five times bigger than the international band, and we can use a lot more power, too, yet we cannot use the middle part of the international band as it is a channel reserved for other use. In other words they can be more generous as well as less generous, and in this case both!
     
  14. SM0AOM

    SM0AOM Ham Member QRZ Page

    Any Administration can at its discretion invoke Article 4.4 in the Radio Regulations, which was used for the first incarnation of 5 MHz amateur radio use, and which also forms the formal justification for the 70 MHz allocation in the UK.

    Generally speaking the usage profiles for HF differ greatly between the ITU regions, but a general observation is that incumbent users are extremely reluctant to give up "their" spectrum, especially to "irrelevant" users such as amateur radio.

    73/
    Karl-Arne
    SM0AOM
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  15. G8ADD

    G8ADD Ham Member QRZ Page

    Indeed - almost as reluctant as some radio amateurs are to ask for more!:) Despite this, in 2005 Ofcom gave us five channels despite rumoured objections from the military, and the following year increased it to seven channels, and now we have 71 kHz in eleven bandlets. Some administrations are clearly more generous than others, but if we can gain 71 kHz of spectrum from other users, when for instance our military are three times more numerous than in Australia, then surely they could shoehorn in at least one channel in VK!
     

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