New Kenwood TS-890S HF Transceiver

Hi Joe,
If the TS-890 comes in at around $3500 it will be more expensive than a K3S with a single receiver. Of course, the Kenwood will have that fancy color touch screen to satiate the kiddies desire for "eye candy". But, with a single USB cable between a K3S and a computer, you can have a much larger screen with point and click capabilities. I prefer the modularity of the Elecraft gear vs. the "ya gotta buy a more expensive rig with those features" attitude of the Japanese manufacturers.

73

 

I am disappointed that it does not have two independent dual receivers. I don't see it as much of a competitor with only one receiver. The lack of the second receiver takes this new radio (that has not even been released) out of consideration for many contesters, especially SO2R types, not to mention DXers. I am a Kenwood fan, but it seems like they keep missing the boat. There were shortcomings with the 990s and now this. Bummer.

 

Maybe Kenwood didn't want the 890 to compete with the 990. Maybe they'll introduce a model that has the 890's specs with a second receiver sometime in the future. Meanwhile, you can get one of the RSP models from SDRplay and use it as a second receiver. It's easy to do with available free software, a friend of mine is already doing this with his 590SG and an RSP2. The receivers can track each other or they can operate independently, and he also has "point and click" frequency control of either one. Or, you can get a K3S with a second receiver and have it all.

 

Thanks, I am aware of all of those options. Those are just "work-arounds", except for the K3S which is a great rig but over-priced IMO and for all that money you get no band scope unless you spend even more money (if a band scope is important to the owner). I currently have a 590SG and have thought about the SDRplay RSP, but there's issues there as well. The main limitation is that when running just 100 watts from the rig, there is about one watt that gets through from the DRV port of the 590SG (and the receiver gets 3db less signal than the transmitter) . If you happen to be on the same or near frequency of the transmitter, there will definitely be overload issues with possible damage to the receiver. That only gets worse, and likely unacceptable, when running an amp. A person can always incorporate other work-arounds using relays or whatever to isolate the 2nd receiver so you don't destroy it accidentally. Any receiver can work as a second receiver with the 590SG via that port, it does not have to be an SDR unless you want to mess with a computer and have a waterfall for entertainment. You just have to know going in that it's not a perfect scenario and the second receiver can be damaged if you are not mindful of what's going on.

All in all, and I will reiterate, I have always been a Kenwood man. But given what is out there right now, I still believe the new 7610 Icom is the best all-round, feature-filled rig on the market in it's price class. It has not just set the bar, it is the bar for rigs in that price range. And if the new 890S sells for that much or more, then again, the 7610 features, especially the dual receivers, comes out on top IMO. Even if the 890s advertised receiver specs hold up under 3rd party testing, there's not enough difference in the dynamic range and blocking numbers to make any discernible difference.

73, Joe W4JF

 

I don't think anyone will argue the point that the TS-890 is designed to be a DX chaser and looks like it has all of the features that a DXer could ever want. The K3S with DX package is just a tad over $5400.00 so to say that the TS-890 is more expensive than a K3S is only if you get a stripped "Casual User" version that has few of the features that the new Kenwood radio has. This rig looks like a home run for Kenwood and I'm guessing it will be a top choice of DXers. I also see that it has the capability to connect an external monitor just like the TS-590SG and I suspect that there is software that will enable point and click also. I do agree with you however, that the big color displays are more eye candy than anything else. I only find it useful for RTTY and Digital modes, for DX I simply don't need it.

From what I have seen beginning with the IC-7300, the attitude of the Japanese manufacturers seems to be, build a better radio at an unbeatable price.

 

I just remember that the TS-830 had really nice transmit and receive audio, it was a top notch radio at the time.

 

Yes, it was. I never owned one, but I had friends who did and I've used them. I wouldn't mind having one today, and with an external audio DSP filter wouldn't feel a bit handicapped, except in the area of frequency agility. For that I run my FT-990 with AT into a balun then through ladder line to my center fed doublet so between the ATT and the solid state finals there's no doubt I can move around much, much faster. Neither is going to show me band activity via a waterfall kind of display but that's very easy to implement separately with a dongle SDR receiver.

 

I use an outboard DSP filter with my TS-520S and it is exceptionally good on CW. I am an old guy so don't really need a band scope although my 7600 has a pretty good one, I can work DX just fine without being able to see them, I just have to hear them.

 

Ignoring the 3 "packages" that are suggested on the Elecraft website, you can pick and choose each individual option for the K3S. The "DX package" includes a second receiver that the TS890S doesn't offer, so that isn't a valid comparison of the prices of the two rigs. A single receiver K3S with the same features as the TS890 (minus the "eye candy", of course) would cost LESS THAN $4000. I don't see ANY of the Jap manufacturers offering anything even remotely approaching the modularity of the K3S. You want a second receiver for your TS890? You can't have it, you have to buy a TS990, which costs MORE than a K3S with a second receiver. I fail to see how that's a "better radio at an unbeatable price". Most DXers want a second receiver so that they can "follow the pileup" when the DX station is working "split". You can't get that with the TS890, so I don't consider it to "have all of the features that a DXer could ever want".

 

Since we don't actually know how much the TS-890 will cost comparing prices at this point is tilting at windmills. The real issue is performance and that's where I am focusing my attention. I get that you are hard over on Elecraft and that's fine but you can't ignore the claims made by Kenwood, and I seriously doubt that they would fudge those numbers.

As for modularity, that is great, It gives you the option of having a bare bones radio with mediocre performance and features or, a rig with high performance and lots of features at twice the price. Very clever marketing. The Japanese have never done that to my knowledge and that's OK because I don't want a half baked radio, I am willing to pay for great performance right out of the box. Not everyone wants a piecemeal rig that winds up costing a fortune to make it work. I am sure that the rig they provided to Sherwood for testing was a topped out model that was massaged by Elecraft before they sent it.

We have heard a price range for the TS-890 and if it is true then that rig will provide higher receiver performance than any other radio at that price, including the K3S which, with the DX package is five grand and still does not provide the performance stated by Kenwood. If you want dual receivers the IC-7610 is a much better deal than the K3S and also provides a high level of performance. Face it, the Kenwood simply looks like the top of the heap in analog performance.

 

I disagree with all of your unfounded assertions and opinions.

 

Have another glass of Koolaid.

 

Would that be Japanese Kool-Aid, the same that you're drinking?

 

No,,,, I own a dozen American rigs in addition to my Japanese radios.

I didn't realize the release of the new Kenwood was going to hurt your feelings so badly. The good news is that the competition from all of these new Japanese offerings might just push Elecraft to up their game.

 

My feelings aren't hurt by the facts, that is, when they are, indeed, facts. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, let's express our opinions and behave like mature adults. Let's back up our "facts" with verifiable examples to make our point, let's not make unfounded statements and resort to argument when someone disagrees with them. If you look at the results of the Sherwood Engineering tests (verifiable "facts") you will see that the rigs that are CONSISTENTLY among the top performers are all superheterodyne receivers. The second examples of SDR receivers, the Flex 6700, Icom IC-R8600, Icom IC-7610, and Icom IC-7300, all show a wide deviation in performance between individual units, as much as a 14db difference for one of the specifications. There is no guarantee that the units that were tested represented the best or the worst performance of which these rigs are capable, or even where the "average" performance of all of the rigs of a particular model will fall. As I stated in an earlier post, SDRs achieve high dynamic range by "dithering" and "randomization" of their quantization noise (Icom calls this IP+) , and sensitivity and noise floor suffer as a result. Superhets don't have this limitation (which is why, I assume, that Kenwood designed the TS890 as a superhet instead of an SDR) and exhibit good sensitivity and good dynamic range AT THE SAME TIME. Therefore, any claim that an SDR is a "top performer" is questionable. Of all of the superheterodyne receivers, the Icom IC-7851, the Hilberling PT-8000A, and the Elecraft K3S (both examples of which had identical test results, except for a 1db difference in dynamic range) have the best results for ALL of the parameters for which Sherwood tests. The Yaesu FT-dx5000 does quite well, but it has phase noise problems (which also makes for a dirty transmitted signal) and its 100kHz blocking is more than 20db worse than the 2 best rigs. If the new Kenwood TS890 equals or betters the top three performers that we already have, that's great. Keep in mind that these are just "preliminary specs", an actual working radio has not been tested to verify Kenwood's claims. But it will STILL be a single receiver and NOT upgradeable to have dual receivers like the Hilberling, Icom, and Elecraft rigs. I'm sure that the folks at Elecraft (or any other manufacturer, for that matter) would like to hear just exactly how they could "up their game".