Thousands in New York City without power

[kg4kww]

NEW YORK - Tens of thousands of New Yorkers were still without power Friday, the fifth day of a mysterious electrical problem that has been blamed for subway delays, flight cancellations and dead air conditioners during the hottest week of the year.

Thousands in New York City without power (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13972546/)

[n2nh]

I was going to post something about this, but I keep getting told I don't know anything about living here. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

N2NH- Lifelong New Yorker. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[WB8MKV]

Go ahead N2nh, give us your best NY lingo

[VE7NOT]

Bout time. People could do a few days without electricity. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[n2nh]

Welp, due to a blackout we had the entire IRT west side line shut down below 110th St. in Manhattan (1,2,3). Then, the Queens lines started to get affected (N,W,7, E,F,G,R,V)- some lines stopped running, others lines ran 1/3rd the number of trains (they're 3X more filled up) and much slower than normal. Then they brought back the power and alleged the surge knocked out transformers and overheated feeder cables causing fires and more blackouts. Today, the Queens subways are still affected, some trains are being turned back at the Queens border and what they're not mentioning is that if you get stuck in a subway blackout, things get very dark very quickly. And very, very hot. Underground. In a car full of strangers. And that nut job that was prancing around to music nobody else could hear when the car was lit up is still doing it.

OTOH, if you live in Queens, some have been without power since Monday. Imagine those on respirators and with meds that have to be kept cold (ie.: Insulin). Let alone that fans, air conditioning etc. are all out too. That's one reason I didn't move there. The Bronx is probably doing as badly, but many newscrews shy away from there so it isn't getting covered.

The Express Buses are affected for some reason too, so they're not an alternative right now. A normal trip from S. Brooklyn to Union Square is about 15 -20 minutes took 1-1/2 hours yesterday.

Another beautiful summer in the city. We got some boomers an hour ago. Another bunch is coming in. I can hear them. This should be able to make matters worse - news at 6.

I wish I was in Dixie. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[n2nh]

BTW, the latest is that due to a track problem uptown, the entire A/C/E line has to run slower in Manhattan again today.

So it's up at 190St and that means that 13 miles away trains have to run slower? Dunno if that makes any sense.

Boomers here, cya.

[WB2WIK]

What's wrong with boomers?

I thought that meant anybody born between about 1946 and 1956 or so...

Did you mean thunder?

We don't get that here...

WB2WIK/6 in lightning-free L.A.

[ai4ep]

Alabama..Moulton at 4 pm cst 102 degrees with partly cloudy skies

My back yard 97 degrees in the shade whether the sun is shining on the ground or not. ...cool breeze also.

So why ( oh why ) am I inside in front of this contraption ?

because I can.

[ai4ep]

NOT ---with no electricity, will YOUR computer work ?

[VE7NOT]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ July 21 2006,14:21)]NOT ---with no electricity, will YOUR computer work ?
Nope. Guess I would have to NOT have a computer. It's been done before. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

VE7NOT (Not Overly Technical)

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif mine will not either...and no I will not try to use a computer while a generator is being used.

I CAN do without a computer longer than most folks who come here.

I CAN do without basic electricity better than most folks do these days ( facts and evidence to back it up ), easier in winter than in summer.

So can all of you if you set your mind to it.

In some ways, these computers are just as addictive as a tv set to entertain us / inform us. There aint a lot of news that goes on day-to-day that I really NEED to know to survive.
The news programs, the action shows, the sitcoms, any of us CAN live without. Same with the computer...you survived without it for so many years...and those e-mails really dont usually have any earth-shattering news on them that can not wait till tomorrow / next week / next month to learn about. Sure there ARE true emergencies, but you DO know what I mean by all this.

ALL the time I spend daily on a computer COULD be spent doing more GOOD for others or myself in so many ways. PLUS I need the exercise ( as most Americans do ..we all are overweight to one degree or another from sitting in front of a keyboard / monitor for HOURS of each day.

We come here, we check the CNN headlines, we check our e-mail, we check the local weather radar, we go to other sites of one form or another...all of that takes time that we USED to spend possibly exercising our BODIES and our MIND to learn or be healthier as individuals.

If some one started a thread / poll ( which aint being done no more ) asking folks ---Are you addicted to your computer --- to tell the truth, most of us would say YES ( with embarassment ) .

oops :blush:

[WB2WIK]

"New York, New York, it's a wonderful town.
The Bronx is black, and the battery's dead." http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[WB2TPS]

Earthquakes, mud slides, forest fires and flash floods in LA, but no Thunder and lightning?

I'll take thunder and lightning for $1,000 Alex...

Fourth line squall today on Long Island, but we have power.... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ai4ep]

It is a package deal usually...you dont get the rain without getting FREE thunder & lightning.

So remember that the next time you go asking for some much needed rain...you problably will get thunder & lightning ( and maybe some wind, too ) absolutely FREE.

[WB2WIK]

Los Angeles proper almost never gets any thunder/lightning. I've been here 18 years -- saw lightning once, heard thunder twice in 18 years. Just doesn't happen.

But they do get it in the mountains east of here. They also get clouds in those mountains. Clouds and lightning/thunder seem to go together.

I don't miss lightning, I remember it well...

[n7rjd]

Quote[/b] (VE7NOT @ July 21 2006,07:01)]Bout time. People could do a few days without electricity. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I don't know about that. A place with a population the size of New York and people being deprived of a lot of their daily routine and diversions is certain to have a rising crime rate.

BTW, there are a lot of people that cannot go without electricity. People on various forms of life support or other machines required to handle processes their body cannot anymore such as dialysis. They can run these machines from backup supplies when the grid is down but this is still electricity.

[al2i]

This summer has been bad in Wasilla too. I know what it feels like to lose a shop-full of customers because the power company shuts me down. It is horrible, and something only a small business owner can fully appreciate.

The last time it happened though, I kept the network running on UPS and actually had a couple of customers get online because their own power was off. More of that and I'd add backup power to my business plan! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[n2nh]

The 6 O'clock blues showed the Queens neighborhoods in the dark. Apparently our Electric Co. - ConEd, god unto themselves - said 2,000 were blacked out when it was over 25,000. Not the first time they burned a NY Mayor with official BS. Every highway in the northern suburbs here was underwater then, even the NY State Thruway. Good thing most of us are headed South to the beach and Fla in the summer.

Well, I'm stocked for the weekend. 5 CDs, Franfurters, Hamburger, Ice Cream and a couple of cases of whipped cream. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[ai4ep]

nah never mind.

I tried and no one listened. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[n2nh]

Hot town, summer in the city
Back of my neck getting dirty and gritty
Been down, isn't it a pity
Doesn't seem to be a shadow in the city

All around, people looking half dead
Walking on the sidewalk, hotter than a match head
--Lovin' Spoonful
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/1076.gif

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ July 21 2006,19:53)]Hot town, summer in the city
Back of my neck getting dirty and gritty
Been down, isn't it a pity
Doesn't seem to be a shadow in the city

All around, people looking half dead
Walking on the sidewalk, hotter than a match head
--Lovin' Spoonful
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/1076.gif
Hey Big Apple guy! What is the meaning of the cartoon dodo bird avatar? I'm missing the message.

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/7131/dodoboidvq7.jpg

[VE7NOT]

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ July 21 2006,20:53)]Hot town, summer in the city
Back of my neck getting dirty and gritty
Been down, isn't it a pity
Doesn't seem to be a shadow in the city

All around, people looking half dead
Walking on the sidewalk, hotter than a match head
--Lovin' Spoonful
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/crazy/1076.gif
What a day for a daydream.... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[K3XR]

Not to worry, the UNION workers will have it fixed in no time....
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_202003024.html

[KA9VQF]

This is something I have thought about a lot. I know I could survive without my electricity. I might not like it much but I’d get by.

When I was young I managed to liver without air conditioning we did have fans though. I wonder how long I’d last without the fridge tho.

Never was without electrical power for more than 24 hours unless I was camping. Even then I had battery powered stuff so I guess I wasn’t really totally without electricity. And I always knew all I had to do was go back home and have what I was doing without. I mean it was still there even if I wasn’t using it at the time.

I could do without the computer. I rarely watch TV but I don’t think I’ve gone a whole day without listening to some kind of radio.

I have a really small generator. It will grudgingly run the fridge if it has to but if I couldn’t get more gasoline I’d be without again.

I worry about the medical dependant people out there. I remember the heat wave just a few years ago that killed all those people in Chicago. I’m betting there will be lots of deaders in the big apple because of this.

Wonder where FEMA is and what they might be doing to assist.

[kg4kww]

What else they(Da News) haven't told you all is that the departed that are in the local funeral homes are in need of AC too!! Yep they need AC just like the living. If they don't get AC, well you know the rest.

[kg4kww]

Could the problem just be old outdated powerlines or has NYC been invaded by bad people?

Please comment, it's ok.

NEW YORK (AP) -- A blackout in the borough of Queens entered its sixth day Saturday in the hottest week of the summer with the mayor saying chances were small that the problem could be repaired by the end of the weekend.

Update: Sweltering New York seeks clues to blackout but finds more damage (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/22/ny.blackouts.ap/index.html)

[KI4NNL]

I know NY is a big place, but in todays world situation if they need to consider calling in FEMA for a few days without power thats just sad. Maybe growing up in the Keys got me used to power outages (huricanes) but c'mon. Don't the hospitals and stuff plan for that. Its not exactly a big surprise given the past few years.

Heck in the year of Florida storms we were without power about a month, sucked, but it wasn't that big of a deal.

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ July 22 2006,15:01)]Could the problem just be old outdated powerlines or has NYC been invaded by bad people?

Please comment, it's ok.

NEW YORK (AP) -- A blackout in the borough of Queens entered its sixth day Saturday in the hottest week of the summer with the mayor saying chances were small that the problem could be repaired by the end of the weekend.

Update: Sweltering New York seeks clues to blackout but finds more damage (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/22/ny.blackouts.ap/index.html)
I don't know. I used to work in the Astoria/Steinway area of Queens and there is a major electric plant there. Yet on TV, as soon as you're off the property, the blackout begins. I find it strange that this is happening. Either somebody didn't follow procedures or something out of the ordinary is goin on.

I was watching a remote broadcast from Astoria. Queens is effectively a third world country right now.

As far as the departed, I personally know what it's like to work with refuse during a heatwave. This must be a killer to those whose job it is.
*Latest Linky* (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/22/nyregion/22cope.html?ex=1311220800&en=2e2a4a4ca4f96267&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss)

[KI4NNL]

OK, on refuse collection, they probably do deserve hazardous duty pay http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
I wouldn't do it.

[kg4kww]

I know a lot of you don't want to comment out of concern about GW's Secret Police, but, there comes a time when you must speak up.


NEW YORK - A mysterious blackout during the hottest week of the year left tens of thousands of New Yorkers without power for a fifth day Friday as residents sweltered, businesses idled and city officials seethed after the power company revealed the outages were 10 times larger than previously reported.

<span style='color:red'>The blackouts were at their worst on Wednesday, when 10 of the 22 feeder cables that supply the area with power were down simultaneously.</span> The temperature had hit 100 degrees in the neighborhood the day before.

This is not a normal thing I would think. There are evil forces at work here.

remember the dead rising from their graves in the movie and wanting to eat brains. Could the dead be sending NYC a message?

This also, means a lot of hams are off the air.

[KI4NNL]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

ok, not really sure what to make of that one.

[WD8OQX]

How many time has this happened now? - makes me wonder as this just can't be &quot;coincidences&quot;

[ai4ep]

Welcome to the 21st Century.

It slowly gets worse.....and more widespread.

The terrorists have learned how to hurt the average american.

gasoline &amp; electricity are our two favorite things to have around ( and beautiful women ).

They want us to fight amongst ourselves, so they do not have to invade this country.

They want us to disagree, to fuss, argue over things that cant be controlled anyway .

They want the UNITED states to become

the UNTIED states, broken apart, never agreeing on trivial items, and even less on important issues.

They want us to destroy ourselves, since they can not do it theirselves.

Of course they figure out a way to knock out electricity in NEW YORK, the largest city in the entire world, and especially since it is in the USA is all the mo' betr .

So what is next ? Stay tuned, it might be in YOUR state, even YOUR city, YOUR neighborhood.

It gets a whole lot worse.

---------------
and I am being optimistic.

{ dont forget the smiley } http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[VE7NOT]

I could do without it for awhile. Look at my qrz profile http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KA8NCR]

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ July 21 2006,13:44)]What's wrong with boomers?

I thought that meant anybody born between about 1946 and 1956 or so...

Did you mean thunder?

We don't get that here...

WB2WIK/6 in lightning-free L.A.
Up to 1964

[ai4ep]

thunder aint nuthin but them thair fowlkes up in heaven having theirselves a &quot; bowling tournament &quot; .

The &quot; rolling off in the distance &quot; thunder is a GUTTER BALL ROLLING DOWN THE GUTTER.

The Close by thunder (very loud ) is some one striking the first bowling pin HARD and the other 9 pins tumbling all over the place .

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Them folkes cell phones wont work too long when the rechargable batteries go dead, then when you get home, the electricity is off and the charger will not recharge those dead batteries.

modern technology at your service.

2 meter handhelds also.

oops

[N2RJ]

The problem, IMO is manyfold, with many of the problems compounding each other -

- NYC infrastructure is OLD. Some places are using wiring and other stuff sized for the 1950s or worse... In Queens, when I lived there, my lights would flicker every night during primetime, and the voltage would read between 85-115 volts. Brownouts all the time. I had to run everything important off UPSes with AVR so that they wouldn't die. I had a TiVo unit that killed a hard drive because of the bad power. I replaced it and re-imaged and put it on my 1kva UPS with AVR for my computer and no problems.

- The place is simply overpopulated. With that many people there, the old infrastructure is buckling under the weight of normal use, imagine in the summertime when everyone wants their A/C on all the time.

- In NYC everything has to be on 24x7 all the time. Much needed upgrades are postponed indefinitely until something breaks.

- NYC is BIG. Con Ed has a lot of ground to cover. They are simply burnt out (pun intended...)

Those are just a few of the issues. There are lots more, many technical and engineering related, some political, others that just don't make sense... But that's NYC for you.

I am so glad that I don't have to deal with that anymore. And I feel so sorry for the people who have to put up with it. It's really sad.

I miss NYC somewhat but I certainly don't miss having to put up with being shortchanged from Con Ed. Here in NJ, PSE&amp;G keeps the voltage rock steady and everything runs like it should. Newer infrastructure and people are more spread out over a larger area... Plus everything closes at 8PM so no large amount of current drain like in NYC. ;)

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ July 22 2006,14:49)]I know a lot of you don't want to comment out of concern about GW's Secret Police, but, there comes a time when you must speak up.


NEW YORK - A mysterious blackout during the hottest week of the year left tens of thousands of New Yorkers without power for a fifth day Friday as residents sweltered, businesses idled and city officials seethed after the power company revealed the outages were 10 times larger than previously reported.

<span style='color:red'>The blackouts were at their worst on Wednesday, when 10 of the 22 feeder cables that supply the area with power were down simultaneously.</span> The temperature had hit 100 degrees in the neighborhood the day before.

This is not a normal thing I would think. There are evil forces at work here.

remember the dead rising from their graves in the movie and wanting to eat brains. Could the dead be sending NYC a message?

This also, means a lot of hams are off the air.
I certainly do NOT think that any sort of terrorism is involved.

At the worst it could be con ed workers sabotaging because they want overtime, but I seriously doubt that.

The problem is that many parts of the city are using old, outdated and undersized infrastructure for an overpopulated city.

If you look at Home depot, Lowe's, PC Richard, etc. they are all selling out of A/C units, and everyone is putting them on. Most landlords are too cheap to provide energy efficient central A/C, and NYC Government is so bureaucratic that the permits to get the work done make the task extremely difficult.

The demand for energy is increasing at an astronomical rate.

Throw a 100+ degree day here and there and you have a disaster on your hands.

Con Ed simply can't keep up, and the city is so overpopulated now I doubt they ever will.

Regarding hams off the air, after the big one in 03, many hams began to take backup power much, much, more seriously. Many of the hams I know have at the very least large AGM batteries, and some also have generators. If it's one things hams take seriously now it's emergency power.

BTW, I used to live in Astoria, and prior to that I lived in Roosevelt Island (the island between Manhattan and Queens). Astoria is Manhattan's back yard. People are moving there in droves, and that portion of Queens is growing more and more. The predominantly Greek section of Queens is now becoming an escape for those who want to be close to Manhattan but want cheaper rent (and as a result, rent and property values are going up, but that's a different story).

The crowding on the N and W trains that service the area was unbelievable when I lived in Astoria. I suspect it's gotten worse. I moved to Ozone Park, which is further out east, then to woodhaven then I had enough and moved to NJ.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ July 21 2006,16:21)]NOT ---with no electricity, will YOUR computer work ?
I have a laptop and a 12v adapter (DC to DC, not a DC to AC inverter) for it, so yes. ;)

[K9STH]

A number of years ago in Manhattan a blackout happened. Now power was coming into one of the &quot;sub stations&quot; (actually a large building that contained the transformers, distribution, etc., for the area) but none was going out. Con-Ed tried everything to get the power back on, but to no avail.

Then someone remembered that one of the retired supervisors who had worked in the building for decades was still alive. So early in the morning Con-Ed personnel showed up at his door and talked him into coming down to the building to see if he could help.

Now over the years the building's interior had undergone remodeling several times and it basically looked nothing like when the old supervisor had worked there. He walked around the building for a while then recognized some location. The old supervisor then &quot;paced off&quot; so many steps &quot;this way&quot; then so many steps &quot;that way&quot; until he finally stopped before a blank wall. He took a pencil and drew a large &quot;X&quot; on the wall.

Then the supervisor asked for a sledge hammer. The Con-Ed people thought that this was a bit &quot;strange&quot;, but they got him a sledge hammer. The supervisor then took the sledge hammer and hit the wall with all of his &quot;might&quot;. There was a loud &quot;bang&quot; and the power came back on.

The old supervisor explained that there was a &quot;bank&quot; of contactors (very large relays) behind the wall that had somehow come &quot;open&quot; and &quot;stuck&quot; in that position. It seems that they were problematic back when he was an active employee.

What had happened is that over the several remodeling jobs that the contactor &quot;bank&quot; had been &quot;walled off&quot; and everyone had forgotten that they even existed. Con-Ed immediately tore down the walls that enclosed the contactor bank.

The supervisor presented Con-Ed with a bill for his services: $50 for his time and $10,000 for &quot;knowing where to hit&quot;. A cheque was immediately &quot;cut&quot; for the full amount.

Now this story is true. However, Con-Ed definitely did not publicize what caused the blackout.

Glen, K9STH

[N2RJ]

Glen, you are absolutely right, and it's not just Con Ed either!

NYC transit has many classic examples of a spaghetti mess of wires and old equipment that has been working for decades until some big mess happens. They just set it and forget it, and when something big happens, they have the literaly wake the dead to figure out what happened.

The other day some piece of infrastructure on the A train line burned down close to chambers st. I think because some homeless person was lighting a fire to keep warm. It took them a while to get things back to normal because it was a whole bunch of old infrastructure that they just put there years ago and forgot about.

NYC has a lot of that old stuff just waiting to fail... Lots and lots of ticking time bombs!

[kg4kww]

I agree that NYC has old wiring from the turn of the century(circa 1900) but, I'm amazed that over the years that cone ed hasn't updated all of the electrical wiring in NYC and its burros to handle the increased demand for power.

Glen, great story. Did you work for Con Ed at one time?

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ July 22 2006,18:38)]NEW YORK, the largest city in the entire world
mmmmmh, I think you better get your facts straight.

[kg4kww]

No definite date for return of power; assemblyman wants probe (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/22/ny.blackouts.ap/index.html)

[ai4ep]

nsm...where IS the largest city in the world ?

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ July 22 2006,23:21)]nsm...where IS the largest city in the world ?
Just for you Robert :-) (http://www.citymayors.com/features/largest_cities1.html)

Sorry, maybe you don't mean &quot;city&quot; maybe you mean &quot;Urban Area&quot; ? (http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/urban_2006_1.html)

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif WOW

thank you.

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ July 22 2006,22:23)]Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ July 22 2006,23:21)]nsm...where IS the largest city in the world ?
Just for you Robert :-) (http://www.citymayors.com/features/largest_cities1.html)

Sorry, maybe you don't mean &quot;city&quot; maybe you mean &quot;Urban Area&quot; ? (http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/urban_2006_1.html)
Big deal... 11th place after places like Shanghai, Mumbai (Bombay) and Tokyo...

I get your point though, but NYC is still &quot;up there&quot; in terms of large cities.

In terms of US cities it ranks at the top.

[ve2nsm]

Quote[/b] (AB2MH @ July 22 2006,23:44)]Quote[/b] (ve2nsm @ July 22 2006,22:23)]Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ July 22 2006,23:21)]nsm...where IS the largest city in the world ?
Just for you Robert :-) (http://www.citymayors.com/features/largest_cities1.html)

Sorry, maybe you don't mean &quot;city&quot; maybe you mean &quot;Urban Area&quot; ? (http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/urban_2006_1.html)
Big deal... 11th place after places like Shanghai, Mumbai (Bombay) and Tokyo...

I get your point though, but NYC is still &quot;up there&quot; in terms of large cities.

In terms of US cities it ranks at the top.
I was not trying to make a big deal, just correcting a mistake. NY is NOT the biggest city in the world, by far.
As a matter of fact NY and Paris together still can not reach the top of the list!

[ve2nsm]

Anyways, the best reference is not the city, but the Urban Area, and Tokyo is there because of a strange thing, don't remember exactly what, but it was once determined that the biggest city in the world was definitely Mexico.

[ka0gkt]

I had the distinct pleasure of working in a beautiful old cast iron facade building near Omaha's Old Market district a few years back. #Most of the infrastructure in the area, including the electric lines are pushing a century old. #One day, while walking to lunch, I saw an old friend who worked for the Omaha Public Power District standing alongside an open manhole. #I stopped to say hello, and in mid conversation, another utility worker popped his head out of the manhole with a manilla string-tag in his hand. #He said &quot;You ain't gonna believe what I just found, it's an installation tag signed by the Chief Electrician of the Omaha Power Company (the power provider before Public Power in Nebraska)&quot; #I grinned and said &quot;His name was Frank Ousler wasn't it?&quot; #They both looked at me in disbelief and the man in the hole said &quot;Yeah, how'd ya know?&quot; #He was my Great Grandfather and he died in 1963 at 90 years old. #The transformer in the transformer vault was a Westinghouse model and was installed sometime in the late teens or early twenties so it was pushing 80-years-old itself at the time in '99. #The transformer had survived several Missouri River floods (as did the tag)...amazing. #Today, in addition to the old wiring in the tunnels, Cox Cable has fiber optic cable and QWest runs ISDN lines...and OPPD has near-century-old Westinghouse distribution transformers.


73 DE KAØGKT/7

--Steve

[kg4kww]

I hope the folks in NYC and ST Louis get their power back and soon. Looks like more heat is on the way.

This is why we need Nuke power plants, because a Nuke Power Plant can handel the load.

[ai4ep]

Kww ---neato idea...but you have to remember that ---

1) no one wants a nuclear reactor in THEIR back yard ( always some where else would be great ).

2) certain soil types wont work well, too flat, too hilly, too swampy, too dry.

3) environmentalists, tree huggers, etc dont want nuclear power, yet they DO want the benefits (electricity ) from it.

4) Folks still remember Chenobykal (*sp ) in Russia .

amazing how humans can remember every little thing you did wrong 100 years ago, yet can not remember the good a human did 10 seconds ago. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[AC4BB]

I know what caused the power to go out all those 5 million watt CB leenyars going at one time. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[N2RJ]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ July 23 2006,23:05)]I hope the folks in NYC and ST Louis get their power back and soon. Looks like more heat is on the way.

This is why we need Nuke power plants, because a Nuke Power Plant can handel the load.
But in this case, it is not really generation that is buckling under the load, but rather the distribution network.

So while I agree with upgrading generation, the utilities need to upgrade the distribution network as well.

[ac3p]

They were running &quot;Solyent Green&quot; on one of the movie channels over the weekend.

Was come one on tv trying to send a message?

[KD6NIG]

The problem usually isn't the power supply (ie, the power plants) but the wires feeding everybody.

On Saturday I lost power 3 times for roughly 45 minutes between 3pm-7pm. It was because we live in a older area of town, and the substation that was built back when the neighborhoods were just being formed couldn't handle the load. Most of the homes on my block didn't have AC when they were first built, but over the years its been added onto them. Now, it gets above 90 and people turn them on and they cycle on and off.

Problem is, on Saturday it was 114. So those AC units that normally cycle on and off aren't cycling, they are just straight running now trying to keep the interiors cool. Too much draw.....something trips.

There are older areas of Sacramento that are still out today and have been for a few days. Simply the feeder lines couldn't handle the load.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is that ConEd, after the 10 feeder lines tripped offline, tried using the rest to handle the load (spelled: they overloaded the remaining ones) causing damage to them in an effort to keep the lights on. Part of the reason large swaths of the city remain out is probably because the feeders have to be upgraded first before they can move to the actual infrastructure. Just 'patching up' the feeders and flipping the switch back on will only be a band aid, and likely would result in failure again pretty shortly.

Today California is looking at possible &quot;stage 3&quot; emergency at peak time today, meaning rolling blackouts. Our issue is we may not have enough power available from our generators and outside sources to meet the demand. If this happens, they will have to curtail loads on a rotating basis till demand drops.

CA had the same issue with feeder lines, ie the main intertie between N and S California. Thats why they would have to have rolling blackouts, but not always statewide-it was because they couldn't ship power from north to south or vice versa because this main feeder line could only take so much. If they went over, it would trip and thats all she wrote. Supposedly the line has been beefed up as well as a second independant line being ran between the two halves of the state.

We went Stage 1 Saturday (which basically means we're down to 5% available) because a power plant in N. California tripped offline. As close as its being today, we're probably going to have outages. If a power plant trips....there may be more people being turned off at a time. The demand today is supposed to be something like 52336 Megawatts according to the ISO's website. That will shatter the record of 49,000+ Megawatts...set last week.

California ISO System Status (http://www.caiso.com/outlook/SystemStatus.html)

Its going to be interesting to see what happens today. So far the Green line on the graph (available power) is above the prediction, but if something goes offline or anything else happens, there is not much room for error today.

ConEd is going to learn the hard way. When you just keep crossing your fingers and doing bandaids, you eventually have it bite you. Don't be shocked when they do get it fixed in a few years, that suddenly the number of feeder lines they are quoting as having now has doubled, and they are still having problems.

&quot;If it ain't broke don't fix it&quot; works until something goes boom. The reason they lost 10 feeders is because one went, and the rest went like a daisy chain. Kinda like in your car if something goes, and you fix it, the next weakest link in the chain may go next.

Heads will roll just like they did a few years ago in California when many people got canned, and it went right up to the Gov himself being tossed for mishandling of the crisis. The main thing though is that honestly it wasn't his fault-to build a power plant in California takes 10 years-8 of which is the environmental impact reports, etc. The rest was infrastructure failures and the fact that, although the state has expanded rapidly, the power grid didn't. Suddenly everyone wanted power and it hit the fan.

Remember, 10 years ago 50% of households didn't have a computer either. All of that stuff including all the various chargers for your cellphones and other electronic devices adds up. Its only going to get worse, by the way.

The warehouse I work at? If the power goes off we're sunk. The entire inventory system is by computer. No computers, nothing moves. Its like that everywhere nowadays.

Good luck ConEd, and everyone affected. The upgrade you needed 5 years ago has now reared up and bit you. Hopefully they can get everyone back on soon, but the bottom line is, there are more outages to come-they are going to have to beef up the entire system. I bet they will find many areas with power now are right on the edge of being Queens also. Anything more than 10 years old will definetely have to be checked out. Anything newer than that.....hopefully they did it up to todays standards (or didn't hook new up, with old in between it and the power plants).....

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ July 24 2006,00:05)]I hope the folks in NYC and ST Louis get their power back and soon. Looks like more heat is on the way.

This is why we need Nuke power plants, because a Nuke Power Plant can handel the load.
We have a couple of &quot;nuke&quot; power plants here. They have missles to stop an attack. They are on a fault zone and will release radiation if a decent sized earthquake comes. They are also considered to be some of the worse Atomic plants with safety violations. But FEMA says it okay. I feel a whole lot worse hearing that.

* Glow-in-the-dark LinkY * (http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2003/Indian-Point-Amusement-Plant8apr03.htm)

Meanwhile, Mayor Bloomberg is doing the &quot;Blame The Victim&quot; dance now. ConEd are a bunch of nice guys. What's wrong with you? It's just a little old one week plus blackout. Stop crying you woosies in Queens. Riiight. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

BTW, the odd thing about this is that transformers on the poles are STILL exploding and catching fire. Should that be happening when there's no power??

Strange days are here. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[KD6NIG]

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ July 24 2006,10:06)]Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ July 24 2006,00:05)]I hope the folks in NYC and ST Louis get their power back and soon. Looks like more heat is on the way.

This is why we need Nuke power plants, because a Nuke Power Plant can handel the load.
We have a couple of &quot;nuke&quot; power plants here. #They have missles to stop an attack. #They are on a fault zone and will release radiation if a decent sized earthquake comes. #They are also considered to be some of the worse Atomic plants #with safety violations. #But FEMA says it okay. #I feel a whole lot worse hearing that.

* Glow-in-the-dark LinkY * (http://www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2003/Indian-Point-Amusement-Plant8apr03.htm)

Meanwhile, Mayor Bloomberg is doing the &quot;Blame The Victim&quot; dance now. #ConEd are a bunch of nice guys. #What's wrong with you? #It's just a little old one week plus blackout. #Stop crying you woosies in Queens. #Riiight. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

BTW, the odd thing about this is that transformers on the poles are STILL exploding and catching fire. #Should that be happening when there's no power??

Strange days are here. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif
Could be there is power, but low voltage (aka &quot;brownout&quot;) or something similar.

I have a feeling before everything went down, there was a momentary surge that cooked a lot of thier devices. Now they are trying to restore and transformers are damaged and are vaporising.

I wouldn't be shocked to hear that some of the people who are out are suddenly having problems with thier devices that were plugged in right before it went out.

[K9STH]

KWW:

Never worked for Con-Ed, but did work for TXU (formerly Texas Utilities - power company for about half the State of Texas) for 10 years.

Now I have told this story before, but it is definitely &quot;funny&quot;.

Back in the late 1990s an elderly black man walked into one of the suburban Dallas offices of TXU and went up to the service representitive and said that he would like to have his power on all day. The service representitive looked at him &quot;kinda funny&quot; and told him that his power WAS on all day.

The man insisted that it wasn't. He told the representitve that he was getting ready to retire and that he wanted to be able to play his radio all day.

The representitive insisted that his power WAS on all day.

He explained that he got up in the morning and got ready for work. Then his power went off until he got back in the evening. Then it came back on.

This exchange went on for about 15 minutes. Finally, to &quot;shut up&quot; the man the representitive agreed to send out a serviceman.

About 30 minutes later the serviceman returned just &quot;laughing his head off&quot;. It seems that the &quot;olde tymer&quot; was correct. His power definitely was off during the day.

Now the man had never been married and had lived in a small, one-bedroom, house ever since it had been built during the early days of World War II. Somehow the house had been wired on a street light circuit and NOT on the regular distribution lines. When it got light the streetlights went off and so did his power. When it started getting dark the streetlights came back on and so did his power.

The house had never had air conditioning and the load on the mains was minimal. Someone checked the billing history and found that the highest electric bill that had ever been paid on the property was right at $8.00 for one month. Usually the bill was less!

This story was the &quot;talk of the town&quot; around TXU for several weeks.

Glen, K9STH

[kg4kww]

Wow!! I hope TXU fixed his powerline problem.

Seems like NYC is getting their power back slowly, now CA and St. Louis are in the dark.

[kf6rdn]

It IS ok when topics die of a natural death.
You don't have to revive them, they go to a far better, nicer place. Surely YOU understand this?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[kb2vxa]

Hi mushrooms, (Those kept in the dark and fed mayoral poop.)

&quot;I know what it feels like to lose a shop-full of customers because the power company shuts me down. It is horrible, and something only a small business owner can fully appreciate.&quot;

Is something preventing you from using a cardboard tray, pencil, paper and simple arithmatic? Could it be the bar code reader and computerized cash register, bunky? Heck, Sam Drucker never HAD electrisicle in his store! (Mr. Haney sold the generator to Mr. Douglas and he had to climb the pole and use a butt set to answer the telephone.)

At least somebody got it right, Con Edison hasn't replaced the cables that Edison installed and they quite literally melted being underground and can't dissapate the heat of air conditioner overload. One got it wrong though, there are no pole transformers involved, that's why the manholes explode into flames. One worker narrowly missed serious injury yesterday as he was blasted across the street while a news crew was shooting video of the work in progress. Hey guy, just because the neighborhood secondaries are without power don't assume the feeders aren't energized, they cover more area than what's without power. They have transformers from 1910 too, if it ain't broke, don't fix it until it explodes, THEN wait months for a replacement, meanwhile route power around it.

Oh NH, is that photo of the NH&amp;H E locomotive unit with the power generating station in the background starting to look familiar? Hint, the RR station is in Queens and the stacks are Hell Gate Generator on the Manhattan side for those who don't know the story.

Well, at least the Jersey Shore isn't suffering as badly as it used to. Over the past 5 or so years JCP&amp;L and Conectiv have been doubling up on the feeders so the power doesn't crap out quite so often at the height of the tourist season. Before Oyster Creek Nuclear was built it fizzled every time we had a thunderstorm but I think they finally caught on to the fact that there are such things as lightning arrestors. Now what was that &quot;too&quot; comment about the ground they're built on? The Oyster Creek section of Lacy Township is a marsh and the creek itself is full of quicksand so go figure.

One last comment, NIMBY and the tree huggers can go get eaten by the freakin' whales and leave us in Greenpeace! Besides, that pale blue Cherenkov radiation glow is cool.

The preceeding commentary was brought to you by FARTS, the First Amendment Radio Transmitting Society. The staph and mismanagement of KB2VXA Radio take no responsibility for it's content, we're irresponsible as it is.

This is KB2VXA atomic powered radio, operator powered by gas.

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (kg4kww @ July 25 2006,00:44)]Wow!! I hope TXU fixed his powerline problem.

Seems like NYC is getting their power back slowly, now CA and St. Louis are in the dark.
Yep they claim there's only 1,000 still in the dark here. The problem is that we pay the highest for electricity here and get the cruddiest service. Besides what most normal people use for electricity, every commuter rail line and subway uses it too. This gives you a feeling of 'will it happen again?' every rush hour.

I hope that St Louie and California are faring better than we did. Good luck to all affected. I hope you're not in the dark too long.

VXA
Yep, the NH did go through Hell's Gate to Pennsylvania Station on through trains from Boston to Phillie, Baltimore, Washington, and points south of New York City. Mainline trains were the Merchants Limited and the Yankee Clipper.