This must be a fluke

[KD4LEI]

Earlier today I was flipping through the weather stations in order to get an idea of what ducting was doing to the VHF side.

From here in Nebraska, I heard a station out of Chillicothe. #The only place I could think of was the city out of Ohio. #I did a little research to make sure I wasn't hearing a station from Nebraska, or the surrounding states and there's nothing. #There is something out of Missouri, but the NOAA site didn't show a station operating on any freq's from that state with that same name.

I know things happen from time to time but with only 300 watts from that station, this had to be a VERY rare incident.

I only heard about 15 seconds and it disappeared. #A fluke, or a lucky moment in time?

[K9STH]

Probably a tropospheric "duct", maybe reflection from an aircraft. Ducts are more common on 6 meters but do happen on "high band". Don't know much about meteor scatter on high band since most communications take place on 6 meters (that I know of).

Ducts can stay around for hours or move through really fast.

A power of 300 watts is "plenty" for either mode of propagation.

Glen, K9STH

[w8cbc]

I've heard the things out to about 200 miles on occasion on a little whip plugged into a R7000.

As mentioned elsewhere, I consider 'em good mid-VHF propagation indicators.

[ke4pjw]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ June 20 2006,12:01)]Probably a tropospheric "duct", maybe reflection from an aircraft. Ducts are more common on 6 meters but do happen on "high band". Don't know much about meteor scatter on high band since most communications take place on 6 meters (that I know of).

Ducts can stay around for hours or move through really fast.

A power of 300 watts is "plenty" for either mode of propagation.

Glen, K9STH
I have seen ducts open as high as UHF. There used to be a repeater in the lower portion of the 450Mhz band that is used for WSM's broadcast link for "Flight 650" traffic aircraft here in Nashville. There was another repeater on the same frequency and tone, but reverse input in Atlanta. You knew the "duct" was open when the link frequency was squawling from feedback. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ June 20 2006,12:01)]Probably a tropospheric "duct", maybe reflection from an aircraft. #Ducts are more common on 6 meters but do happen on "high band". #Don't know much about meteor scatter on high band since most communications take place on 6 meters (that I know of).

Ducts can stay around for hours or move through really fast.

A power of 300 watts is "plenty" for either mode of propagation.

Glen, K9STH
It sounded pretty clear for that 15 second timeframe off my HT. #Whatever caused it put a smile on my face, since I haven't heard something like that in a good while.

I remember experimenting one summer back in the late 80's with my dual cassette "boombox" radio when I was in my early teens living in SE Ohio. #I put some thin shielded copper wire on the telescoping antenna of the radio. #I stranded the wire up the wall with scotch tape and then made a horizontal quad/loop of sorts by wrapping the wire around the four corners of my bedroom. #

What I heard next astounded me when I picked up a FM radio station out of Port Arthur, Texas. #It was in the 106 or 107 FM freq range. #I listened for a while to figure out what it was and to hear where it was coming from. #When I heard the city and state, I couldn't believe it. #Long distance reception... # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] ] This must be a fluke

Er, no THIS is a Fluke... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif


http://us.fluke.com/images/products/industrial/digital_multimeters/87V_03_200p.jpg

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (kf6rdn @ June 20 2006,13:33)]Quote[/b] ] This must be a fluke

Er, no THIS is a Fluke... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif


http://us.fluke.com/images/products/industrial/digital_multimeters/87V_03_200p.jpg
LOL!

You're pulling an SY on me here. Wonder what ol' Steve is up to...

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (KD4LEI @ June 20 2006,19:46)]You're pulling an SY on me here. #Wonder what ol' Steve is up to...
And I thought I was pulling a me..

Dunno what 'SY is up to. My turn to watch him was last week. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (kf6rdn @ June 21 2006,00:53)]Quote[/b] (KD4LEI @ June 20 2006,19:46)]You're pulling an SY on me here. Wonder what ol' Steve is up to...
And I thought I was pulling a me..

Dunno what 'SY is up to. My turn to watch him was last week. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I'll bet he's playing with his instrument. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n8yx]

VHF is hopping this morning...heard heterodynes galore on all the NOAA WX channels...hopefully, some of you folks are taking advantage of the opening.

[K3UD]

There seem to be a lot of towns named Chillicothe. The closest one to Nebraska is in Missouri and there is also one in IL. Don't know if they have a NWS station though.

Here is a a good resource if you are into DXing the NOAA stations.

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/listcov.htm

73
George
K3UD

[WA2ZDY]

'Tis the season for such propagation. Same time every year.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ June 20 2006,18:01)]Probably a tropospheric "duct", maybe reflection from an aircraft. Ducts are more common on 6 meters but do happen on "high band". Don't know much about meteor scatter on high band since most communications take place on 6 meters (that I know of).

Ducts can stay around for hours or move through really fast.

A power of 300 watts is "plenty" for either mode of propagation.

Glen, K9STH
I'm not so sure about that, Glen. Ducting (according to the Handbook) often starts at microwave frequencies and "works it's way down." The famous summertime (any time now, have to watch the Weather Channel!) Duct from Hawai'i to the West Coast is known for 2 M contacts (thanks to KH6HME and others on the Islands) as well as 70 and 23 cm, but seldom 6 M propagation via that route. It's partly a matter of being in the right place(s) at the right time. But that duct can hang around for days before it dissipates.

But you are correct; when the conditions are right, some operators have even conducted QSO's with a H-T at least at one end of the circuit. Signals can be amazingly strong. High power isn't necessary.

[K8ERV]

There is a neighborhood duck that visits every morning looking for a handout. Oh, duct- sorry.

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (K8ERV @ June 21 2006,06:56)]There is a neighborhood duck that visits every morning looking for a handout. Oh, duct- sorry.

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo
Another "wise quack" from Tom! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

But seriously, ducting is often more effecient, or at least more effective as the frequency goes up, probably up to a certain limit. I don't have equipment for anything higher than 23 cm, but 10 Watts and a modest antenna (and 22 elements IS a modest 6' antenna for 23 cm) is more than enough to make the trip from So. California to Hawai'i. I'm sure many of the microwave enthusiasts have made the same trip also. And THAT'S DX!

[WA7KKP]

It looks like you've just discovered tropospheric propagation on two meters (and nearby).

A good way to see if it is happening is to watch television off-air (yeah, no cable or dish TV) and tune to unused channels.

I get the high channels 7-13 quite regularly in St. Joseph, mostly from Springfield/Joplin MO, Tulsa OK, and on occasions, Lincoln NE and Columbia/Jefferson City, MO. TV stations, like NOAA weather stations, are high power beacons. NOAA usually runs about a KW at their sites, with a few exceptions.

Best DX I've had so far is KRSC channel 35 (yes UHF) from Claremore, OK. Bad part is that propagation is usually best on hot swimmy humid days.

Gary WA7KKP

[w8cbc]

SVD - that's what I thought! That tropo works better on higher frequencies than low, that is. So Glenn's reply kind of threw me off.

As for Chillicothe - if the station identified as such, I don't think it was in Ohio. There isn't one there according to my list - the nearest to it are in Columbus, Otway, Dayton, and Covington KY (Cincinnati). Any of the four could have mentioned it though. We've had lots of storms around here of late.

---edit---

KKP - my introduction to Es was KDLO-TV ch. 3 from SD, received in NY. I think it was in 1981. KBME Bismarck, ND mixed in after awhile and replaced it. I was hooked from then on. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[wa4ilh]

There is not a NWR station in Chillicothe, Missouri.
Tom WA4ILH

[k0cmh]

Correct, there is no NOAA broadcast antenna in Chil., MO. The sites that serve Chil., Mo would most likely be Trenton, MO and/or Lancaster, MO. (both in north-central MO). All the NOAA NWS stations I hear identify with city and state.

The 6 meter and 2 meter gurus here in the Missouri area have been telling me there have been some tremedous 2 meter openings in the past few weeks. One was open to the Carribian.

So my guess is that you have it right.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (kd8bsr @ June 21 2006,08:46)]SVD - that's what I thought! That tropo works better on higher frequencies than low, that is. So Glenn's reply kind of threw me off.

As for Chillicothe - if the station identified as such, I don't think it was in Ohio. There isn't one there according to my list - the nearest to it are in Columbus, Otway, Dayton, and Covington KY (Cincinnati). Any of the four could have mentioned it though. We've had lots of storms around here of late.

---edit---

KKP - my introduction to Es was KDLO-TV ch. 3 from SD, received in NY. I think it was in 1981. KBME Bismarck, ND mixed in after awhile and replaced it. I was hooked from then on. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
There may be a difference between where the NOAA STATION (offices) are located, and where the transmitter is located.

The Los Angeles, CA NOAA Station operates their transmitter (the last time I paid attention) on a Mountain in Ventura County, probably 50 miles or more from downtown L.A. (Obviously, NOAA transmitter sites are chosen for maximum coverage of the area served regardless of where the station or offices are located.)

What you may have heard is the transmitter location, in that 15 second "sound bite," rather than the location of the actual NOAA Station.

Still such things are not uncommon; it could have been a brief Sporadic "E" propagation or random combination of more than one propagation type.

[wa4ilh]

cmh is correct. There is no NWR at Chillicothe, MO. The programing station, which maintains county warning responsability for that county is in Pleasant Hill, MO, sometimes referred to as Kansas City. Tom WA4ILH

[w8cbc]

svd - it wasn't me that heard it, it was the fellow who started the thread.

Those around here ID according to transmitter location. Many are fed from the NWS office in Wilmington, OH. I can hear noise in Covington's audio when there's a lot of junk in the air; I gather they're linked by UHF or microwaves.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (kd8bsr @ June 22 2006,09:21)]svd - it wasn't me that heard it, it was the fellow who started the thread.

Those around here ID according to transmitter location. Many are fed from the NWS office in Wilmington, OH. I can hear noise in Covington's audio when there's a lot of junk in the air; I gather they're linked by UHF or microwaves.
Sorry about that.

Around here, the NOAA stations ID with their location and say "transmitting from..." and give the transmitter location. If the original poster only caught a few seconds of a transmission, he could have caught a transmitter location, rather than the station location.

[KD4LEI]

So far the only Chillicothe I found was Ohio. #I did not see anything from Illinois. #Here is the NOAA link for all the TX sites.

NWS/NWR link (http://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/nwrbro.htm)

NWR Station Listing for Ohio




------------------------------------------------------------------

Call Sign Site Name Site Location Frequency Power
KDO94 Akron Akron 162.4 500
KZZ46 Athens Elliottville 162.425 1000
WWF35 Bridgeport Bridgeport 162.525 1000
KZZ47 Carey Carey 162.525 300
KJY68 Chillicothe Chillicothe 162.5 300
KHB59 Cleveland Chesterland 162.55 500
KIG86 Columbus Columbus 162.55 1000
WXJ46 Dayton Miamisburg 162.475 1000
WNG698 Grafton Lorain County 162.5 300
WXJ47 High Hill High Hill 162.475 1000
WXJ93 Lima Cridersville 162.4 1000
WWG57 Mansfield Butler 162.45 300
WNG734 Marietta Washington County 162.4 300
WXM69 Otway Moon Ridge 162.525 1000
KHB97 Sandusky Castalia 162.4 1000
WXL51 Toledo Holland 162.55 100
WWG56 Youngstown Youngstown 162.5 100


Number of Stations in Ohio = 17

[KG4YUV]

I once heard of guy in Atlanta working a station in Canada on .52 during a duct. My my what a duct it must have been!

[w8cbc]

Huh!

It's not on the list I printed out about two years ago.

Either the station's new or my list is incomplete. I'll do another printout.

162500 is usually the last of the lot to fade in when there's tropo. I've identified one from Kentucky and two from Indiana.

[wa4ilh]

Quote[/b] (KG4YUV @ June 22 2006,15:34)]I once heard of guy in Atlanta working a station in Canada on .52 during a duct. My my what a duct it must have been!
I'm not an expert on six meters but this could be any of several modes other than ducting. It's even possible for the Maximum Usable Frequency to go that high during periods of maximum sunspot activity. (not now) I occasionally worked the west coast from Norfolk Virginia during openings on 52.525 FM. The midwest and Texas were very common. Tom WA4ILH

[wa4ilh]

Quote[/b] (wa4ilh @ June 23 2006,09:54)]Quote[/b] (KG4YUV @ June 22 2006,15:34)]I once heard of guy in Atlanta working a station in Canada on .52 during a duct. My my what a duct it must have been!
I'm not an expert on six meters but this could be any of several modes other than ducting. It's even possible for the Maximum Usable Frequency to go that high during periods of maximum sunspot activity. (not now) I occasionally worked the west coast from Norfolk Virginia during openings on 52.525 FM. The midwest and Texas were very common. Tom WA4ILH
ooops, ... sorry about that. I just re-read your post, You said .52 (146.52) ... not 52. (six meters) Yes, that is impressive
Tom WA4ILH

[wa9cwx]

I have often heard what I assume is ducting on the 460 Public Service Band.

I have heard Chicago in Northern and Western Wisconsin on several occasions while mobile.
Distances approaching 250 + miles.

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ June 24 2006,14:48)]I have often heard what I assume is ducting on the 460 Public Service Band.

I have heard Chicago in Northern and Western Wisconsin on several occasions while mobile.
Distances approaching 250 + miles.
That isn't necessarily true ducting in the classical sense. There are MANY propagation effects that can cause "enhanced" propagation range. It can easily be Es. or Tropo scatter; and a 250 mile range is a bit too short for most Es, and usually doesn't produce much signal strngth by the time you get to 70 cm and above. Certainly, it's not Es if it happens often!

[KL1ZB]

Its kinda funny I found this thread when I did. I work for the NWS in Alaska and just last week a co-worker told me he got an e-mail from someone in Italy telling us he picked up one of our NWR's from Italy.

[KC2MDP]

So How was the weather in Ohio? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (KL1ZB @ June 25 2006,16:42)]Its kinda funny I found this thread when I did. I work for the NWS in Alaska and just last week a co-worker told me he got an e-mail from someone in Italy telling us he picked up one of our NWR's from Italy.
Oh? That's some serious DX