FCC tests of the late 50s and early 60s

[KC0OXE]

For those readers who got their licenses in the late 50s and early 60s, what was the process like for the written tests, particularly the more advanced tests like those for Advanced and Extra licences?

More specifically, what were the mechanics of the exam: were they written or oral or both? What material did the tests cover and how were the questions posed: as essay, short answer, fill-in-the-blank, multiple choice, or what? How many questions were asked and how much time was given to take the exam?

Was there any type of information provided as to what the tests would cover? Any guidance from the FCC telling the topics to be covered, or was this information gathered word of mouth from other HAMs who had taken the tests? Did the tests change from exam to exam or were they standardized so that all candidates taking the exam nationwide got the same exam?

And what was used to study for the examinations: where there study guides specifically covering the material, or was it a matter of "these books will cover the questions that the exam will ask"?

What was the emphasis of the questions: theory or practical application, procedures, safety, etc? What was a typical question like, given that much of the radio of the day was constructed with tubes instead of solid state?

The reason that I am posting this topic is that I would like to get an idea of what it was like to get a license during that time, and how the licensing process was compared with today.

Any answers would be appreciated. Please understand that I am trying to gain an understanding of the past, and not wishing to start a topic that deteriorates into rants about how easy it is today and how little today's licensees know. <(grin>

Thanx.

[WA5VQM]

My memory of my two tests in the late 60's early 70's (General and Advanced) is pretty foggy. 35 years ago and being barely in my teens at the time doesn't help either.

But I seem to recall it was technically oriented. You had to identify certain oscillators for example. Tubes were still the active component of choice so there were questions about that. There was a wavelength question, maybe even had to figure a dipole. I think I had to draw something, but I'm not so sure about that. There were the usual FCC regulations questions, what frequencies could you operate, etc. I think it was mostly multiple choice, but I still think I had to write something down. Since I was still in school at the time I could be confusing the two.

Having just taken my Extra a week ago, I do feel it was a much easier test than the General and Advanced tests of 35 years ago. However 35 years of ham experience and a career as an electrical engineer may have just made it seem easier. Plus, there were no cheap calculators available at the time.

I'd like to see some copies of the tests from that bygone era. That would be cool.

73, Mark

[nm5tf]

Quote[/b] (KC0OXE @ June 19 2006,00:33)]For those readers who got their licenses in the late 50s and early 60s, what was the process like for the written tests, particularly the more advanced tests like those for Advanced and Extra licences?

More specifically, what were the mechanics of the exam: were they written or oral or both? What material did the tests cover and how were the questions posed: as essay, short answer, fill-in-the-blank, multiple choice, or what? How many questions were asked and how much time was given to take the exam?

Was there any type of information provided as to what the tests would cover? Any guidance from the FCC telling the topics to be covered, or was this information gathered word of mouth from other HAMs who had taken the tests? Did the tests change from exam to exam or were they standardized so that all candidates taking the exam nationwide got the same exam?

And what was used to study for the examinations: where there study guides specifically covering the material, or was it a matter of "these books will cover the questions that the exam will ask"?

What was the emphasis of the questions: theory or practical application, procedures, safety, etc? What was a typical question like, given that much of the radio of the day was constructed with tubes instead of solid state?

The reason that I am posting this topic is that I would like to get an idea of what it was like to get a license during that time, and how the licensing process was compared with today.

Any answers would be appreciated. Please understand that I am trying to gain an understanding of the past, and not wishing to start a topic that deteriorates into rants about how easy it is today and how little today's licensees know. <(grin>

Thanx.
I was 1st licensed in 1956 as Novice...test was taken at local hams house...no multitple choice, just essay answers...5 WPM code test....

took General test in front of FCC Engineer in Los Angeles office in 1957...again, essay answers...plus you had to actually *draw* ckt diagrams...seems like you had to actually know some theory back then....oh yeah, there was
a 13WPM code test back then!!!

went QRT for 35 years, then was re-licensed last year as General class....boy, was *that* experience different!!!

upgraded to Extra last SEPT...found written test easier than
General test of late 1950s...progress I guess??? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[K0RGR]

I got my Novice in '65 and my General in '66. That may be a bit later than what you're intersted in.

The Novice exam was given by a single volunteer examiner. The scope of the test was very simple - it basically consisted of a subset of the rules and regs plus some very basic DC theory - 25 questions. Of course, there was a 5 WPM code test that had to be passed before you got near the written test. The volunteer examiner did not grade the test - he mailed it back to FCC for grading. You'd wait quite a while (6-8 weeks) to find out if you passed!

The General was several orders of magnitude harder - much more theory. You had to do things like calculating the impedance of a matching section to go between two different impedance feedlines - NOT rocket science, and a formula easily memorized, but still a bit of useful information that a ham really needed to know back then.
It's still useful today, but I find I can easily look up the formulas when I need them.

To take the General, you had to travel to an FCC office. In my case, at age 13, it required me to get on a train in San Jose at 6 a.m. so I could be in San Francisco at the FCC office on Battery Street by 8 a.m.. Those who lived more than a certain distance away from an FCC office could take the General by mail - getting something called a 'Conditional' license. The Conditional was common in many areas of the country. I had a friend from Sacramento who made the trip to 'Frisco in order to avoid the 'stigma' of the Conditional license. There were lots of rumors of fraud involving the Conditional tests, and quite a few proven cases, too, so there was a bit of a stigma, even though the Conditional was the norm for licensees in many areas.

The 13 WPM code test came first. Those who failed at 13 were usually given the option of taking a 5 WPM test so they could take the Technician test.

[WA9SVD]

Back in that "Jurassic" period, most would-be Amateurs used the ARRL license guides to study. They would explain theory, and regulations, but there was no "question pool" with answers to be memorized.

You can probably pick up some of the old license guides at a hamfest/swapmeet, or on eBay to get a true picture of what material was provided. Most of us (unfortunately) either tossed the guides once we passed the exam, or passed it along to others. Our High school club had a fair sized "library" that members could use, and many members (or alumni) would add material they no longer needed.

BTW, during that time period, the written exam for Tech was the same as the test for General. And the examiners DID tell you if you passed the exam, because you would have to wait 30 days to take the exam again if you failed. Same with the code test; you sat there for five minutes, and then one by one they graded the test. If you had a full minute perfect copy, they didn't even go further; it was either "pass" or "fail." (Obviously, I passed.)

[W5HTW]

I think it laudable that anyone entering, or new in, any endeavor would want to understand the traditions and the conditions that went before him. Certainly it was true for photography buffs and model railroaders, pilots and some other hobbyists. And true also is that many of those who come along later don't want to look at the past.

The last amateur radio test I took was in late fall of 1969, so I have to admit memory fades a bit. However, here are some of my recollections.

The standard study guide for amateur radio was "The ARRL License Manual." It was 50 cents in 1956, and it covered all classes of license, Novice, General/Technician/Conditional(the written was the same for all thre) ADvanced, and Extra. The manual had probably 35 sampe questions for the Novice test, which would consist of, I think 25 questions. A few of them related to safety, and a few to Novice class operating privileges. Some related to very basic theory, such as how to determine the length of a dipole antenna. The questions were in "question form" that is, "What is the forrmula for determining the lenght of a half wave dipole?" The answer was in essay form. On operating frequencies for the Novice, I think there was some multiple choice. The questions were set up similar to the real FCC test but were not worded quite the same. The Novice test was given by mail only. A person wanting to take the test would have to find a General or higher class ham who would administer it. The person would then send for the test but it would be mailed to the General. The test administrator (only one person required) would give the applicant both a receiving and sending test in Morse code. If the applicant passed both, the administrator would then open the test envelope and administer the test. It was written, nothing oral. If the applicant failed the Morse receiving test, he didn't get to take the sending test or the written. If he failed the sending test, he still didn't get to take the written. It was returned unopened to the FCC. If the applicant passed the Morse test and took the written (the administrator was not permitted to check the test over and advise if the applicant passed, but many did) the test was sealed and sent to the FCC. It took about nine weeks for a license to arrive in the mail.

The Technician test of that era was actually an experimenter's license, given to encourage experimenting in the VHF and UHF regions. It had a five wpm Morse test, and the standard General written. During much of the 1950s it could be taken at an FCC examining office, but toward the late 50s, it was usually done by mail, with a General or higher administering it. A person could hold both a Novice license and a Technician license at the same time. The Novice was for one year, non-renewable, and could never again be held! The Technician was for five years and could be renewed. Testing procedure was the same as the Novice.

For the Technician and General (the Conditional was a special General class of license that could be given by mail to those too far from a quarterly FCC examining point) the theory was basic electronics, including Ohm's law, power forumlas, formulas for reactance, some basic theory on receivers, transmitter theory, regulations, things like how to reduce or eliminate TVI. It was enough to test for at least a basic understanding of electronics, but wasn't very advanced. It included some theory and diagrams on things like a Colpitts or Hartley oscillator, or a Class B modulator. During the late 50s some tests did not require any drawing of diagrams, but required you to be able to look at a diagram and identify the components. Most tests were multiple choice. Answers to formula questions would have several figures, and you had to choose the right one, which meant you had to work out the formula to get the answer. Some tests did require some simple drawing, such as a parallel resistor network, or a simple series circuit.

I heard there were several series of tests, A through G, which meant if you tested once and failed, you would probably get a different test (random) next time you tried.

Again, you had to first pass the 13 wpm receiving test, then the 13 wpm sending test, then the written. Any failure meant you did not move to the next step. You could not, in other words, fail the code test but still take the written. If you failed any part of the test you had to wait at least 30 days before you could retake it. The General was given only at FCC field offices. I believe it was 50 questions.

The Advanced was exactly that. No additional code test, still 13 wpm, so if you had a General you did not have to take a code test to take the Advanced. This license was mostly on theory and was again 50 questions. It had more on diagrams, but I did not have to draw any. Instead you would be asked if "the componet at point C in the drawing failed, what would be the apparent result?" The answers were multiple choice. This test was administered only at FCC offices.

The Extra Class was 50 questions. It required the 20 wpm Morse test. It also required one having held a General or Advanced class license for at least two years before one could apply for the Extra. It, too, was multiple choice, but had a lot of math, such as calulating the value of bias resistors for certain amplifier circuits, or the class of amplifiers. There were some detailed questions on things like inductive reactance, frequency stability, and advanced transmitter and receiver theory. There were no questions that I recall on rules or regulations.

The ARRL License manual covered all classes of license but referred the reader to subjects in the ARRL Handbook (then $3.50 a copy!) for further study. And that was indeed advisable. It would be possible for someone to memorize the Novice segment of the License Manual and get through that test, but because of the different wording on the same subjects, perhaps not awfully easy. It would be far more difficult to get through the General, Advanced or Extra with memorization, as the questions were more detailed in the actual test and were worded quite differently, although the subject matter was indeed the same as the ARRL License Manual.

There were a couple of other manuals, notably the Ameco License manual. If one had both the ARRL and the Ameco, and studied them both, passing the Novice was nearly guaranteed and the General would be easy. I don't recall the Ameco having a manual for the Advanced or Extra but they may have.

The greatest strength of the amateur licenses of the 50s and 60s, and indeed into the 70s and 80s, was there was no Internet. That meant you learned by mixing with hams, in person. You joined clubs, you learned by visiting other hams' stations, by asking questions, and by practical experience. You associated with the hobby, and that made it a true learning experience.

In addition, there was no "body count" approach to "recruit more hams, recruit more hams, recruit more hams." We recruited those who came to us and showed an interest. That gave us an advantage; the person being recruited was really interested, not just being recruited as someone who happened to ask "What's that?" And secondly, it meant that once licensed, that person had continuing support and training through local clubs. Both of those factors are missing in today's ham radio, especially the continuing support. Most VE sessions that turn out a ham, forget about him instantly, and move to the next recruit. He is left alone to learn ham radio on his own, and with zero guidance. Through clubs of that era the new ham was taken under wing, someone helped him get a station on the air, helped him learn and advance. That part is mostly gone.

Of course, those tests did not include digital techniques. They did not include anything at all to do with computers. The Extra Class had some subject matter on standard, fast scan television, but I don't recall anything like that on the Advanced.

Having also taken commercial exams during that period, I probably have mixed the memories some. The Second Class Commercial of that era, into the late sixties, did include drawing of diagrams, and quite a bit of essay type questions. By the end of the 60s, most questions on the commercial exams were multiple choice. The reason was not to make the tests simpler for the applicant, but to avoid the engineer having to actually read every answer ans interpret it as to whether it was correct or not. By the late sixties most tests were graded by keyed overlay cards, over the marked selections, and could be graded by a non-technical clerk. That made the FCC process faster. But there were still a few diagrams. The one I recall from the Second Class was "draw a diagram of a 100 watt FM transmitter, showing method of applying modulation, and indicate approximatel component values."

By the early 1970s even the Commercial exams were multiple choice.

Ed

[WA2ZDY]

I got my General in 1975 and my Extra and commercial telegraph licenses in 1977. My recollection is very similar to Ed's. All tests were multiple choice by then but the questions were technical. I remember questions about some device not working, here are the voltages at the test point, what do you think is wrong? Naming circuits from the schematic, notably "is the following a Hartley or Colpitts oscillator," etc.

The tests were no joke then and the watchful eye of the FCC examiner could be intimidating to those who really were guessing. Fortunately for me I was deeply into electronics and radio and I just plain knew the stuff.

I was 16 by the way when I got my Extra and my second class commercial radiotelegraph with aircraft and radar endorsements.

[K9STH]

During the 1950s and until 22 November 1967 there was NO Advanced testing done. This was because the Advanced Class was the "grandfather" license given to those who had held the old Class "A" license which was the highest that you could hold until the Extra came into being in 1951.

When I took my General in November of 1959 at the Chicago FCC office they would NOT tell you if you passed or failed the written examination. In fact, they were not even graded until sometime later. You had to wait for either a letter (which said you failed) or your new license (which said you passed) in the mail. In some offices the engineer would accept a self-addressed post card with a place to "check off" either yes or no to tell you if you passed. You did know if you passed the examination in the International Morse code because you had to pass the 13 words per minute (both receiving and sending) before they would let you take the written.

There were a few "multiple guess" questions on the written by that time. However, most were "fill in the blank", do the calculations (only slide rules were allowed and those had to be "approved" by the engineer giving the test), draw the schematic, etc. A few of the multiple choice questions had to do with some of the calculations. Now I tried a couple of the formulas and deliberately made a mistake like multiplying instead of dividing, etc. Yep, there was an answer that corresponded to that "mistake". Why did I do this? I was 15 at the time and just wanted to see if the FCC was "smart"!

The Advanced that I took in early 1968 had more of the multiple choice types but still had some schematic drawing and so forth. By that time they would tell you if you passed the examination before you left. At least that is what Frank Wanja (one of the FCC engineers in Dallas) did for me. Actually, he told me that I had passed "handily" but that I couldn't fill out my FCC application the way that I did. I showed him my licenses (had 2 additional stations and my primary license at that time) the primary which had the K9STH callsign licensed to my parent's house in Indiana but the mailing address in Richardson, Texas. Frank just shook his head and said "if they did it once they'll do it again".

Anyway, to study for the examinations there were several study guides published by the ARRL and other companies. But, there definitely were no "pools" of questions and you had to know the material backwards and forwards because the questions could come in at any "angle" and you had to know how to handle the calculations, schematics, etc.

Glen, K9STH

[W0LPQ]

Concur with Ed and Chris. I took my 3rd/2nd/1st Phone commercial test in 1965 at Tampa under the watchful eye of Mr. Neeb. Intimidating at best. However, he had a Heath GR-91 receiver in his window, tuned to 11M. We started chatting about this after the tests were done and wound up sending him tapes of 11M stuff we listened to during our field exercises at MacDill.

Technical questions and drawing/recognizing what they were were the norm. Agree with Ed that the 2nd was probably the roughest test I had ever taken. Missed only 3 on the second phone. 1st was primarily regulations with some extra techincal stuff.

Ham tests were similar in that you had to recognize/draw diagrams and explain. Also agree on the "there is a problem" what is wrong scenario.

Plus, as Chris and Ed can attest to, you waited months for your license in the mail.

Bill, W0LPQ

[K0RGR]

The General exam was all "multiple guess" by 1966, and the Advanced was the same way when I took it around 1969. We did have to recognize schematics of various types of oscillators, amplifiers, and power supplies on the exam. I only had to draw schematics on the Extra in 1975, but we had to recognize much more complex schematics - I remember my mystery circuit was an FM discriminator.

Those old tests emphasized the details of component-level circuitry. The latest Technician test pretty much does away with that, and replaces it with a lot of 'system-level' detail. This very much parallels what's happened in the industry, I think. Even when I was in that end of the business - 30 years ago, the 'component level' people were being phased out, and the 'system level' technicians made a lot more dough.

Did those old technical questions become irrelevant? I think for most people, they did.

I'm very happy to say that the new License Manual for the Tech license restores a little bit of the technical material that's been removed in the past. Techs should understand all the principles behind tuned circuits, even if they don't need to calculate them anymore, and the book does that.

[WA5VQM]

My memory of testing in the Dallas FCC office is similar to Glen's. They did tell you if you passed. I recall being told "you did quite well" but I forget which test it was. I was too young to drive so had to take the bus from north Dallas to downtown, a bit intimidating itself for a 13 year old. The FCC guy scared me to death but afterwards he seemed to lighten up a bit.

It took weeks to get the license and you couldn't use your new privledges until it arrived.

Fast forward to 2006: My Extra arrived in 6 days. That is an improvement from the old days!

73, Mark

[ac3p]

Quote[/b] ]Answers to formula questions would have several figures, and you had to choose the right one, which meant you had to work out the formula to get the answer.

And no calculators (they didn't exist) or slide rules allowed. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[W0LPQ]

3P on my commercial exams in 1965, the slide rule was allowed, but had to be inspected by the EIC to make sure there were no hidden formulas. I used my 10" Sun Hemi and worked just fine.

Bill, W0LPQ

[AG3Y]

I agree with Bill LPQ and others about the 2nd Phone commercial. After I took that, the 1st Class seemed to be easy! That 2nd was definately the "hump" I had to overcome.

I also remember that my examiner ( actually my "Elmer" ) could not officially tell me if I had passed or failed the Novice ham test, because he was supposed to shove the papers back into the envelope and send them back to the F.C.C. for grading. But there was no hiding the smile on his face when I had completed the test. Actually, since I had my 1st Phone Commercial, taking the Novice was really just a formality, except for the Code.

I remember it as having to have a lower class ham license for 1 year ( not two as previously mentioned in an earlier post ) before you could even apply for your Extra Class, but I was in no hurry anyway, since going from 5 to 20 wpm CW was a big jump for me.

The Extra written exam was rough, but actually I felt that the Advanced was more difficult. The difference was that the Extra covered more advanced modes of communication such as Television, etc. The Advanced really got into the nitty-gritty of theory, and the famous "identify which component is likely to cause what problem" type of question really wracked your brain if you hadn't done your homework!

I didn't use a slide rule or calculator for any ham tests, but we did have Post Versalogs, and knew how to use them for the commercial licenses !

73, Jim

[WA9SVD]

One comment about the "Conditional General" exam. It was for those who lived too far away from an FCC Field Office, but I don't remember the exact mileage. BUT, if you then moved within the "range" of an FCC testing center, you had to take the "real" General written exam. And in the old days, the FCC DID require and enforce the "current address policy" in effect at the time.
Once the VE system was in place (for better or worse) all that was moot.

But another point: Amateurs that took tests under the VE system may be recalled for retesting at any time, should the FCC request it. Those that took the exams from FCC personnel don't have that "restriction!"
Unfortunately, that's also an admission that there CAN be irregularities and abuses with the VE testing, even if rare. And while I don't know of any specific calls, I do know there were "license" mills that would get $50-100 per General, and up to $500 for an Extra license. All cash, no exams to take. Since I was approached by such in the late 80's, and didn't upgrade until after 2000, I obviously did things "the old fashioned way." But there ARE always some that will be willing to pay, and accept payment, for licenses. THAT wasn't possible under the old "FCC Office" testing procedure.

[W5HTW]

Yup! I admit my memory of all that is rather hazy. I took my Novice in the basement of Dick Ingram. W4PHW, in Knoxville. He was my Elmer. I took it with a friend, Johnny Walker, also a 16 year old in the same school, and we both passed and got our licenses on the same day nine weeks later. Mine was KN4JSG and his was KN4JUC. But I honestly can't remember if those questions on that test were essay or not. I thought they were multiple choice, but maybe not.

I don't recall either the Tech, which I took only a few months after the Novice, or the General, which I took in 1957, being mostly essay. My memory is they were mostly multiple choice, but they say there is something that goes first as you get older, and I can't remember what it is.

I agree the 2nd Phone ticket was the hardest of all of the exams I took, including the First and the Extra. I think the 2nd phone was 100 or 150 questions, much longer than any of the others. Like the ham exams, the commercial ones had different series, and some were said to be easier, while others were harder. My 2nd phone was really hard for me. And I was working professionally as an HF radio tech and operator at the time!

Like others during the Incentive Licensing beginnings, I took the Advanced in late 68, as I recall, and the Extra in late 69. I actually received the Extra with an effective date of January 1970, so probably took it in November of 69. I was still working professionally in HF radio, including Morse, so the code was not a problem for me.

It has been true that, especially in the early days of the VEC program, there were a great number of bought licenses. I call it the "buddy ham ticket." Prices were varied. One fellow I knew claimed (though I did not know if it was true) that he paid $1200 for an Extra Class ticket! That was the highest price I ever heard of, but I suppose bribing three VEs could run that much. Over the years since the VE program began, the FCC has cracked down a lot, but there are still problems, and still some FCC actions against both VE teams and those who are licensed in some sessions. I do think it has improved dramatically since the early days of the program.

What did happen, is a good many of those who bought their licenses were "illegal immigrants" from CB, and knew nothing about ham radio except "I wanta be one and I got the money." Those who survived that, and many did, became the representative "old timers" we hear today, especially on 75 meters. They gave old timers a bad name and set the examples for the newer hams. And that can't be undone, which is truly sad.

I know several VEs today, and I consider them honest. That says something good for the changes in the program.

As I recall, most of the FCC engineers who administered the tests were not hams. I knew a couple of them personally and they were not. They held Commercial Telegraph licenses and knew the code, but the ones I ran into had no feelings about whether or not you passed or failed. They were simply doing the job they were paid to do.

I, too, used a slide rule. There were no calculators, or certainly none a ham could afford, in the days of my testing. But the engineer usually wanted to see your work, and how you arrived at the answer, so even with the slide rule, you had to put down on scrap paper, which was turned in with your test, the math process you would use to get that answer. I used a slide rule to check my manual math, but i had to actually work out the formulas by hand.

By the late sixties, the key cards were the grading method, which meant multiple choice for most of the exam. I do recall on the 2nd, the last five questions on the test, or maybe it was the last ten, were diagrams and essay, and those had to be graded manually by the engineer. But when I took the First, in the mid or late 70s, it was totally key card graded. As I recall!!

I wish there was a place one could go on the web and find samples of the amateur and commercial exams of those days. It would be fun to retake a couple of them today!

I also wish there was a place one could go on the web and find private pilot exams from the 60s and 70s. Those tests, too, have changed a lot. But the one truism of history is it drops into the past!

Ed

[K7JBQ]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ June 19 2006,07:55)]When I took my General in November of 1959 at the Chicago FCC office they would NOT tell you if you passed or failed the written examination. #
Glen,

I wonder if we passed the General on the same day. I passed mine in Portland, Oregon, the Friday after Thanksgiving, 1959. School was out that day, so I was able to take the test (100 miles from my QTH).

The engineer who administered the test wouldn't "tell" me if I'd passed the test, but after scanning the answers -- I was the last one in the room to finish -- he looked up and smiled. That gave me all I needed to know to order the VF-1 from Heath -- and to stop at Portland Radio Supply on the way home and buy my "General" present to myself -- the Vibroplex Champion that I still use today.

One thing about the ARRL License Manual of the day -- it was small enough in size so you could put it "inside" the textbook you were supposed to be studying from in class, and get away with it.

73,
Bill

[WA2ZDY]

Oh I used a calculator on my exams in Nov 75 and Nov 77.

And I remember now using the Ameco license manual for the General. It was green and yes, it fit nicely inside a textbook too.

The only General present I bought myself was a taxi ride home from the train instead of waiting a couple hours for my mother to get off work to pick me up. Mom was NOT amused that I'd spent that cash! I was 14 and it turned out I'd spent half a day's salary on that ride. (No wonder she was angry, huh?)

I never pased the 2nd class phone. Eventually I got the hint and gave up. That was a heck of an exam and I was not as up on solid state as that test was.

[K0RGR]

I remember taking a slide rule to one of my exams - I suspect it was the Extra, but may have been both the General and Extra. I seem to remember being very young in conjunction with the slide rule. I remember having to take it apart to show the examiner that there weren't any formulas hidden inside it.

The nice HP calculators came along years after the General test, and I think they were still around $400 when I got my Extra, so the slide rule was the only answer if you couldn't do square roots and logarithms in your head.

[AG3Y]

Darn, that little "slip-stick" is sure cute, Chris! I just found my miniature Versa-log yesterday. Glad it didn't disappear like some of the other old stuff I have ( had ) around here.

I still have 4 slide rules, not counting some specialized cardboard sliding scale calculators.

Do you remember a circular slide rule? I believe I once used one by Pickett. They were only about 9 inches or so in diameter, but the outer scale was equivelent to holding a straight rule nearly 30 inches long in your hand! Those were really the nuts!

73, Jim

[K9STH]

JBQ:

I believe that we took our exams on the same day! The Friday after Thanksgiving would have been the only day that I would have not been in school and my father was able to take a day off work to drive me into Chicago (since I wasn't old enough for a driver's license).

I took the exam in the old Federal Courthouse Building in downtown ("The Loop") Chicago. Something like room 800 if I remember correctly.

Glen, K9STH

[K3UD]

I took my Novice test in the fall of 1964. It was done in our kitchen and administered by a family friend who was in the Merchant Marine and had his 1st class CW commercial license. The code test was first. I had to receive text and numbers at 5WPM and after passing that, I had to send text and numbers at 5WPM while he copied them. Either test required 25 consecutive characters copied and sent correctly. You had to pass this before you got to the written.

The written test consisted of 20 or 25 questions. While I knew I passed the code test, he never told me how I did on the written as I don't think he even looked at it as he put it into the return envelope to go back to the FCC. I received my license in mid December 1964.

I put the Novice license to good use on HF and 2 meter phone. When the Novice had a few months left on it I went down to the FCC Customs House in Philadelphia to take the General. Again the code test was first. This was 13 words per minute receiving and sending. I completely botched the test. You had to have 65 consecutive characters and I had copied about 45 or so consecutuve characters.

The FCC examiner felt a bit sorry for me and offered to let me take the Technician written as he was satisfied that I could copy 5WPM. I don't remember if I had to do a sending test but I seem to think I did have to demonstrate sending at 5WPM.

At that time the Technician written was exactly the same as the General. I remember having to identify schematics and find component values in a circuit along with the standard rules, regs, safety issues, operating procedure, and antenna and propagation theory. I passed it and got my Tech license in the mail. Later I went back for the General and passed 13 WPM.

It was in 1969 or 70 when I passed the Advanced and the 2nd Phone commercial. The Advanced was a good deal more difficult than the General I had taken 3 years before. I thought that it was more difficult than the 2nd commercial. I had no idea of my scores and only knew that I had passed. Back then you had to actually use your Commercial license for so many hours in a 5 year period in order to renew it. I never used it, and it lapsed 5 years later.

I used the Ameco study guide as well as the license manual and handbook for my General (Tech) and Advanced. I did not have a study guide to the 2nd Commercial and took that test cold. I was really very surprised that I passed it.

The last test I took was the Extra, at a VE session. To me the Extra exam was perhaps the easiest exam I ever took, but that was because I had 37 years of experience when I took it.


73
George
K3UD

[al2i]

I took the 2nd and 1st class radiotelephone tests in 1975, and those were easier than the General Class Ham test I took in 1985.

I took my 10" log-log duplex decitrig with me everywhere, wielding it like a weapon or caressing it like a lover. Yes, I was a dangerous slide-rule nutcase!



http://www.davemcgraw.com/Images/sliderule.jpg (http://www.sliderules.clara.net/collection/10inch/100/1102-ke-681210.htm)

[nm5tf]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 19 2006,06:45)]I took the 2nd and 1st class radiotelephone tests in 1975, and those were easier than the General Class Ham test I took in 1985.

I took my 10" log-log duplex decitrig with me everywhere, wielding it like a weapon or caressing it like a lover. Yes, I was a dangerous slide-rule nutcase!



http://www.davemcgraw.com/Images/sliderule.jpg (http://www.sliderules.clara.net/collection/10inch/100/1102-ke-681210.htm)
nice pic....boy, does that ever bring back some memories...

I too carried my "log-log duplex deci-trig" everywhere...I even
had the belt-loop carrying case for it....the mark of the *true*
nerd in the days before the "pocket protector"....

tnx fer sharing.... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif Tom

[wb7dmx]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ June 19 2006,12:45)]I took the 2nd and 1st class radiotelephone tests in 1975, and those were easier than the General Class Ham test I took in 1985.

I took my 10" log-log duplex decitrig with me everywhere, wielding it like a weapon or caressing it like a lover. #Yes, I was a dangerous slide-rule nutcase!



http://www.davemcgraw.com/Images/sliderule.jpg (http://www.sliderules.clara.net/collection/10inch/100/1102-ke-681210.htm)
that sure brings back some memeroies.
but I suppose that if I said that I learned the fine art of using the slide rule back in the late fifties, that it would mean I was a old fart.
so I won't say that

I studied for the advanced and the 2nd class commericat at the same time and found the test about the same except for some of the regulations.

[WA9SVD]

Ed(and others:)

I didn't mean to imply that many VE's are dishonest or can be bribed. Far from it; I'm sure almost all are above reproach. But as witnessed by the sad scandal in a small area of California, some abuses do still occur. And the greater problem is that the VE group involved casts a pall on anyone that tested with that group, wnether they were involved in improprieties or not. That's one of the weaknesses of the VE system. And I think those involved probably got off too easy. VE's that cheat or allow improper testing or test certification should lose their license for life. It's not something that can be done by a single person, it has to be a conspiracy amoungst the VE group. That shouldn't be tolerated by the FCC.

[W4HAY]

Didn't have time to read all the replies, but when I stood for Novice in 1954 we had to receive and send the code. I do remember that as I finished sending the examiner asked if I was tapping my foot to set the rhythm. When I told him I was, he complimented me on my sending then told me to get out of the habit -- that I probably wouldn't be able to do it at 20WPM!

The CW test was on tape, and the tape machine had a really bad case of wow and flutter. He apologized for it and may have allowed some 'Mulligans'. He was a very friendly guy, and told those that didn't pass not to be discouraged, and that he hoped to see them at the next exam session.

[AA0CX]

I was licensed in 1987 -- studied, I think, from an AMECO guide, examined by my elmer and another ham. General, Advanced, and Extra all at VE sessions, of course...the FCC was out of the ham radio testing business by then.

I DO remember taking the train from ND to the FCC field office in St. Paul, MN, for my third phone with broadcast endorsement, since if I passed I was told I could get a part-time job spinning records at the local radio station. This was June of 1967. Late nite train trip on THE FAST TRAIN (The North Coast Limited) on the old Northern Pacific Railroad -- so wired I couldn't sleep -- got down there -- breakfast -- then the exam before some old fellow (I was 16 then, and EVERYONE was old). The FCC offices were in an upper floor of the Federal Building in downtown St. Paul, a big granite building. "FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION" on the doors. I remember that, and my stomach flipped as I walked in. Sat at a desk -- seems they had some ham radio code stuff set up for ham exams. The written included questions on regulations, reading a wattmeter, maximum frequency deviation allowed for an AM station, etc. Some multiple choice questions and I think some were fill in the blank. License came a while later in the mail.

[k4kyv]

Took my General in 1959, and Extra in 1963. The FCC examiner came quarterly to Post Office building. The code test was given on a tape recorder with speaker, no headphones, in a marble-wall room with plenty of echo.

I remember one of the examinees complained to the FCC examiner about the room acoustics. He replied dryly, "yeah, it's pretty rough. Kinda like copying code over the radio."

The receiving test was 5 minutes of text. Remember mine was something about launching a rocket into space. You passed if you displayed at least one minute of solid copy. One thing I remember, they didn't give you any time to go back and fill in letters you hadn't already written down.

Then came the sending test. I had expected something long and drawn out. But after sending about two words the examiner told me to move on, that I'd passed.

Then came the written test. The General was pretty much identical to the questions in the ARRL Licence Manual. Multiple-choice written questions on theory and laws and regulations. Some mathematics involved, and they let you use a sliderule. Also, some schematics and block diagrams. I recall the block diagram of a superhet receiver, and the schematic of a triode final amplifier, showing the neutralising circuit. Several questions on crystals, with certain frequency/temperature coefficients, how close to the band edge you could safely order a crystal.

I recall the Extra Class written exam was very close to the 1st Class Radiotelephone - I took both the same day. Some of the questions were identical.

At the end of the exam I felt that I had had a workout. Probably spent 45 minutes on the General and over an hour on the Extra.

Then each time went home and waited several weeks to find out if I had passed. The notification was the letter from the FCC with the licence enclosed.

[K7JBQ]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ June 19 2006,12:17)]JBQ:

I believe that we took our exams on the same day! #The Friday after Thanksgiving would have been the only day that I would have not been in school and my father was able to take a day off work to drive me into Chicago (since I wasn't old enough for a driver's license).

I took the exam in the old Federal Courthouse Building in downtown ("The Loop") Chicago. #Something like room 800 if I remember correctly.

Glen, K9STH
Glen,

Leave it to you to remember the room number!

Which means you "got" your General about 2 hours before I did, given the time difference.

And, yes, that was my "one" shot at it, unless my parents would have relented and let me take a day off school (and, like you, get driven to the exam site). Ah well, a little extra pressure never hurt.

73,
Bill

[KC2PFV]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ June 19 2006,07:19)]The Technician test of that era was actually an experimenter's license, given to encourage experimenting in the VHF and UHF regions. It had a five wpm Morse test, and the standard General written. During much of the 1950s it could be taken at an FCC examining office, but toward the late 50s, it was usually done by mail, with a General or higher administering it. A person could hold both a Novice license and a Technician license at the same time. The Novice was for one year, non-renewable, and could never again be held! The Technician was for five years and could be renewed. Testing procedure was the same as the Novice.

For the Technician and General (the Conditional was a special General class of license that could be given by mail to those too far from a quarterly FCC examining point) the theory was basic electronics, including Ohm's law, power forumlas, formulas for reactance, some basic theory on receivers, transmitter theory, regulations, things like how to reduce or eliminate TVI. It was enough to test for at least a basic understanding of electronics, but wasn't very advanced. It included some theory and diagrams on things like a Colpitts or Hartley oscillator, or a Class B modulator. During the late 50s some tests did not require any drawing of diagrams, but required you to be able to look at a diagram and identify the components. Most tests were multiple choice. Answers to formula questions would have several figures, and you had to choose the right one, which meant you had to work out the formula to get the answer. Some tests did require some simple drawing, such as a parallel resistor network, or a simple series circuit.
I wonder how many OF's on this forum got their licenses through the mail and are the same people bs'ing that it's too easy today to get a license.

[K9STH]

I can't help it! I have an almost "photographic memory".

When my family plays "Trivial Pursuit" my eldest daughter and I are not allowed on the same team. Between the two of us we "cream" the other members of our family.

Glen, K9STH

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (KC2PFV @ June 19 2006,18:14)]Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ June 19 2006,07:19)]The Technician test of that era was actually an experimenter's license, given to encourage experimenting in the VHF and UHF regions. It had a five wpm Morse test, and the standard General written. During much of the 1950s it could be taken at an FCC examining office, but toward the late 50s, it was usually done by mail, with a General or higher administering it. A person could hold both a Novice license and a Technician license at the same time. The Novice was for one year, non-renewable, and could never again be held! The Technician was for five years and could be renewed. Testing procedure was the same as the Novice.

For the Technician and General (the Conditional was a special General class of license that could be given by mail to those too far from a quarterly FCC examining point) the theory was basic electronics, including Ohm's law, power forumlas, formulas for reactance, some basic theory on receivers, transmitter theory, regulations, things like how to reduce or eliminate TVI. It was enough to test for at least a basic understanding of electronics, but wasn't very advanced. It included some theory and diagrams on things like a Colpitts or Hartley oscillator, or a Class B modulator. During the late 50s some tests did not require any drawing of diagrams, but required you to be able to look at a diagram and identify the components. Most tests were multiple choice. Answers to formula questions would have several figures, and you had to choose the right one, which meant you had to work out the formula to get the answer. Some tests did require some simple drawing, such as a parallel resistor network, or a simple series circuit.
I wonder how many OF's on this forum got their licenses through the mail and are the same people bs'ing that it's too easy today to get a license.
Not ONE of them got a General, Advanced or Extra through the mail! Not one. Sometime in the past three decades, all the Conditionals, which were given by mail, and did suffer from some fraud, were required to take the General. However, that may have been in front of VEs instead of the FCC. I think the VE program came into being in 1987 or thereabouts, and I don't know if the Conditionals had already been required to appear for FCC testing or not. .

The Technician test was the General without the 13 wpm code. It was a technical license, on basic electronics, and allowed all amateur privileges above 148 mhz, plus six meters. It did NOT permit two meter operation until sometime in the mid or late 1960s. .

Today's Technician license, actually misnamed as it is not technical, is a descendant of the orignally proposed Communicator license, which the FCC never approved under that name.

Ed

[AG3Y]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ June 19 2006,21:17)]I can't help it! I have an almost "photographic memory".

When my family plays "Trivial Pursuit" my eldest daughter and I are not allowed on the same team. Between the two of us we "cream" the other members of our family.

Glen, K9STH
I've got a buddy like that, myself. This lifelong friend of mine shared a locker with me back in HighSchool. A few years ago, I found our old padlock. He not only recognized it, but could work the combination. That, after about 30 years.

We were reminding ourselves about how old we were getting in a conversation on the phone the other day. It has been 41 years since we graduated H.S. !

You know, he is the founder and past President of the Jacksonville Antique Radio Society ( JARS ) , and with that brain of his, it would be a snap for him to get his ham ticket, but I still haven't talked him in to trying for it. And he has some rigs I would DIE for ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

73, Jim ( Andy, are you reading this ? ? ? )

[K3UD]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ June 19 2006,21:22)]Quote[/b] (KC2PFV @ June 19 2006,18:14)]Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ June 19 2006,07:19)]The Technician test of that era was actually an experimenter's license, given to encourage experimenting in the VHF and UHF regions. It had a five wpm Morse test, and the standard General written. During much of the 1950s it could be taken at an FCC examining office, but toward the late 50s, it was usually done by mail, with a General or higher administering it. A person could hold both a Novice license and a Technician license at the same time. The Novice was for one year, non-renewable, and could never again be held! The Technician was for five years and could be renewed. Testing procedure was the same as the Novice.

For the Technician and General (the Conditional was a special General class of license that could be given by mail to those too far from a quarterly FCC examining point) the theory was basic electronics, including Ohm's law, power forumlas, formulas for reactance, some basic theory on receivers, transmitter theory, regulations, things like how to reduce or eliminate TVI. It was enough to test for at least a basic understanding of electronics, but wasn't very advanced. It included some theory and diagrams on things like a Colpitts or Hartley oscillator, or a Class B modulator. During the late 50s some tests did not require any drawing of diagrams, but required you to be able to look at a diagram and identify the components. Most tests were multiple choice. Answers to formula questions would have several figures, and you had to choose the right one, which meant you had to work out the formula to get the answer. Some tests did require some simple drawing, such as a parallel resistor network, or a simple series circuit.
I wonder how many OF's on this forum got their licenses through the mail and are the same people bs'ing that it's too easy today to get a license.
Not ONE of them got a General, Advanced or Extra through the mail! Not one. Sometime in the past three decades, all the Conditionals, which were given by mail, and did suffer from some fraud, were required to take the General. However, that may have been in front of VEs instead of the FCC. I think the VE program came into being in 1987 or thereabouts, and I don't know if the Conditionals had already been required to appear for FCC testing or not. .

The Technician test was the General without the 13 wpm code. It was a technical license, on basic electronics, and allowed all amateur privileges above 148 mhz, plus six meters. It did NOT permit two meter operation until sometime in the mid or late 1960s. .

Today's Technician license, actually misnamed as it is not technical, is a descendant of the orignally proposed Communicator license, which the FCC never approved under that name.

Ed
Ed,

I thought that the FCC had an ongoing program of randomly calling in a certain sample of those who held a Conditional class license and had them re-test in front of an FCC examiner. This procedure was supposed to keep down any fraud that might be going on.

Never having though about it but I wonder if a Conditional continues to be renewed as such or if the FCC eventually allowed it to be renewed as General.


73
George
K3UD

[W5HTW]

George I am not sure, I admit. I thought the Conditionals were gradually required to retest, perhaps with the VEs. I only knew two people in my ham history who had Conditionals, and one of those dropped out of ham radio entirely 20 years or so ago. The other is now listed as a General, but as recently as 10 years ago was listed as a Conditional. So maybe he did simply renew as a General. I did, though, hear 'stories' of Conditionals being asked to retest, but was never sure of the authenticity.

I also heard stories back 'in the day' of fraud in that licensing, but not a lot, not like in the early days of the VE program. I chalked it up to people being more honest in the 50s and 60s, and prouder of amateur radio, which limited the fraud. Of course, I'm sure there were a few Novices who didn't really pass the test, too, but were 'pushed' a bit by the ham administering the test. Seems to me when we are tested by our peers, the chance for at least some cheating is higher. And as society has changed, so has pride and honesty, with such cheating becoming more prevalent.

However, I did not intend a wide scale indictment of the VE s. Some VE groups, notably in California and in Puerto Rico, have been plagued with difficulties with the FCC. I do believe there was markedly more cheating in the early days of the program, but over the years it has been tamed to the point that any such fraud is a tiny percentage of the actual testing accomplished.

Again, it would be wonderful to have a full history of testing in amateur radio! A book idea, anyone?? Not just the problems with it, but the relative difficulty of the various tests, the license terms, privileges and qualifications, dating at least back to the early 1930s if not further. It would make wonderful reading, both for newcomers and old timers, who wanted a look at what went before them. I, like many who have been in this hobby for so many years, have forgotten details I shall never be able to recall, such as were there essay questions on my Novice or General? Time has blended the memories of the ham tests with the commercial tests, as well. It would be great to see real facts, instead of foggy memories.

Ed

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (KC2PFV @ June 19 2006,18:14)]Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ June 19 2006,07:19)]The Technician test of that era was actually an experimenter's license, given to encourage experimenting in the VHF and UHF regions. It had a five wpm Morse test, and the standard General written. During much of the 1950s it could be taken at an FCC examining office, but toward the late 50s, it was usually done by mail, with a General or higher administering it. A person could hold both a Novice license and a Technician license at the same time. The Novice was for one year, non-renewable, and could never again be held! The Technician was for five years and could be renewed. Testing procedure was the same as the Novice.

For the Technician and General (the Conditional was a special General class of license that could be given by mail to those too far from a quarterly FCC examining point) the theory was basic electronics, including Ohm's law, power forumlas, formulas for reactance, some basic theory on receivers, transmitter theory, regulations, things like how to reduce or eliminate TVI. It was enough to test for at least a basic understanding of electronics, but wasn't very advanced. It included some theory and diagrams on things like a Colpitts or Hartley oscillator, or a Class B modulator. During the late 50s some tests did not require any drawing of diagrams, but required you to be able to look at a diagram and identify the components. Most tests were multiple choice. Answers to formula questions would have several figures, and you had to choose the right one, which meant you had to work out the formula to get the answer. Some tests did require some simple drawing, such as a parallel resistor network, or a simple series circuit.
I wonder how many OF's on this forum got their licenses through the mail and are the same people bs'ing that it's too easy today to get a license.
The old exams WERE more difficult. The "mail order" licenses (Novice, Conditional) may have led to a few instances of abuse, just as the current "VE" system has had occasional lapses.
But "back then, the consequences of "cheating" were more severe; suspension or revocation of license would have been the least punishment. But it just wasn't done; it wasn't a matter of possibly getting caught, just a sense that it would be wrong. And anyone administering a "mail order" exam had to sign a document stating that all was legitimate; if there were any irregularity, it would obviously be a Federal offense.

But not all that many "OF's" still around are working on a "mail order" license, and your implication that they may have obtained a license under less than legitimate circumstances or the exam was somehow "easier" just because it wasn't taken at an FCC Office is patently offensive.

[wa9cwx]

I have read every post on this thread, and I am in total agreement with all that has been said, except I do believe the time you had to be licensed before applying for an Extra was ONE year, not two. A VERY Small point.

The other one I find TOTALLY offensive, it was the one sarcastic remark on this thread. How did it degrade into a comment about OFs and BSing...?

In ANY case:

I was first licensed with a Novice in 1962, no local elmer, just me and the 2 meter "Lunchbox" I built.
Never touched a key.

Tech license, had studied about 4 months I would guess, test was as has been described, technical, multiple choice, ARRL guide covered theory, but the idea of an "answer pool" would have been considered #as "cheating".
# #
Which it is.

What was covered were the TOPICS, in essay form.

I took my Genreal at age 16 in 1965, as I recall.
Failed the code receiving test.
Re-took it one or two months later and passed the code, failed the written, as I recall....
Re-took it, a month or so later and passed.

This THIRD time, was in the "New" Federal building in Chicago.
The first one or two times was in the "Old" building.

I defer to Glen's many descriptions of THAT place !

At the same time (within a few months), I passed the 3rd Phone (got a job at a local 50 KW FM station in Chicago on weekends).
# # #I was one happy camper.

After incentive licensing was enacted, and BEFORE it took effect, I studied for my Advanced, and Extra.

The "ARRL Study Guide" at that time, had a # ONE # paragraph #comment on the Extra. I STILL have a copy in my study.
It said, "You are expected to know this stuff dummy, get BOOKS, and LEARN something before bothering the nice people at the FCC".
It might have been re-worded just a bit, BUT... THAT is what it meant. I can find my old guide if someone wants the actual wording, but there were, at that time NO...ZERO... Study questions for the Extra. You were supposed to actually KNOW the stuff.
I was a full time college student (NOT radio or Aviation) a Private Pilot student, ( passed my written Private at about the same time, about 2 months later I think), but I did not want to loose my operating priveleges on the CW portions (DX) of the HF bands.

I took a #night course in Chicago that helped me learn the theory too.

I passed the Advanced, the Extra, and the 3rd class CW commercial (20 WPM groups, 25 WPM text), the Private Pilots written, and my third semester at college (during VietNam, when EVERY college wanted to flunk out the dummies).. ALL in that late 1968 period.

My Extra is dated Nov. 7, 1968, about 2 weeks before incentive licensing would take effect.

I slept a week or two that Christmass I think.

By the way, I have the study guides for the Extra and Advanced #that came out later. They may be Ameco. They are HARD bound books, several hundred pages each, and most definitly do NOT contain any 'answers'. Only explanations.

Prior to incentive licensing, I believe the Extra was essay only, 3 questions, in depth answers required.
I think you had the choice of answering two questions out of the three, but the comprehensive answers needed to demonstrate you were actaully somehow "Extra".

I likely would not have passed THAT kind of test at that time.

Oh, and one last thing most of you guys will remember. I looked UP to old farts, I assumed they either knew more than I did, or at the least, had more experience than I did. I figured it was the time in my life to learn, not proclaim or accuse.

[WA9SVD]

It said, "You are expected to know this stuff dummy, get BOOKS, and LEARN something before bothering the nice people at the FCC".

==============================

The only exception I'd make is to the reference to "nice people at the FCC."

Not that any were rude, or exceptionally unpleasant, just pretty much stone-faced serious, and not prone to showing any emotion whatsoever. I guess that's what they felt was their job, and probably rightly so, to eliminate any semblance of impropriety or favoritism.

==================

But YES, that was the general (pun not intended) attitude "back then," you LEARNED the material, and there was no question pool to memorize. Although the ARRL License manuals gave some sample questions, they were generic to demonstrate the TYPE of question that would be asked, not a verbatim question and exact answer. So a sample question might be "what current flows through a 1 Ohm 1 watt resistor if the applied voltage is 1000 Volts?" would be explained ( including such a term as "explosive!") the actual questions on an FCC exam would use different values for voltage and resistance, so it was up to the examinee to do simple math to figure out an Ohm's Law question. NOW,, the question(s) are set in stone, and the answers are available for memorization at will.

[wa9cwx]

Yep,
And one more point which was alluded to earlier by Glen, but actually goes deeper.
There were MANY similar answers.

I took and passed on the first try the "Extra" test here on QRZ.

Something that I should NOT have been able to do.
I am not in a radio/electronics field, my technical knowlege is old and hardly qualifies me as extra anything.
Yet I PASSED, quite easily, simply because the WRONG answers were so stupidly obvious I would need to be brain dead to fail.

Now I realise it would be more of a challenge for a new person without practical experience to see the wrong answers as clearly "wrong".....BUT.... this is for an EXTRA license. #This is not some introductory switch operating button pushing mic gain control license.

On the old tests, you needed to know the PRACTICAL value, the decimal point apprporiate to the component value, not JUST the 'number' answer. Or, others were values that, were so similar, that again, you HAD to know what the exact figure was, NOT a close guess.

The questions today, on the sample tests I looked at, were very technical, it is just that the ANSWERS were so simple as to render them useless as a determination of knowlege in this hobby.
Hence, we have the infamous article in QST about the 16 year old "Extra" #needing help to build a dipole.

Nothing wrong with being 16.
Nothing wrong with needing help with a dipole.
Nothing wrong with being an "Extra".
Hell, nothing wrong with being an Extra at 16....

Something TERRIBLY wrong with an Extra needeing HELP making a dipole.

But, in spite of the failure of the testing to filter out complete idiots these days, there STILL manages to be a goodly number of high quality new Amateurs, and for THAT I am thankfull !

[WA2ZDY]

Not all Conditionals were retested. The guy who used to have me fix his Swan 700 but then wouldn't let me tune it up to test it was a Conditional based on medical issues. I know for a fact that man (forgive me for talking badly about an SK, may he rest in peace) could not have passed ANY theory exam. At some point in the early 80s I think, the Conditionals were all changed to Generals, just as the Tech Plus has become a Tech with no notation of HF privileges.

Yes, the requirement for the Extra was TWO years. Novice and by-mail Tech time did not count. It was changed just in time for me to take the Extra a month shy of two years after my General had been issued.

Who remembers that a General, or anyone who could pass the General, would be automatically upgraded to Extra upon application IF he/she could document having held an operators license of some kind prior to Dec 1917? I remember trying to get my elmer, W2OJJ to do that but he wouldn't hear of it. Bill said his General was just fine for him and he didn't want anything for free.

SVD says: Quote[/b] ]"But not all that many "OF's" still around are working on a "mail order" license, and your implication that they may have obtained a license under less than legitimate circumstances or the exam was somehow "easier" just because it wasn't taken at an FCC Office is patently offensive. "

How many? All the remaining Novices and whatever old time Techs are still around. And I agree, honesty was the way of ham radio back then, I doubt there was much cheating. One cannot say "none" but . . . rare isn't a strong enough word for it. Elmers weren't going to help examinees cheat because they thought too highly of ham radio.

This thread is yet another reminder of why I'm glad I got into ham radio when I did. The big CB boom influx of new hams hadn't really started yet so I can rightfully say I come from the old school of ham radio. I got started when the old guys at the radio club had original 1x2 calls, and half the guys there remembered what night sounded like as King Spark ruled the ether.

I can't imagine having enjoyed ham radio as much as I have if I hadn't been exposed to that stuff. To look at W6AM's book (by N6AM) and understand it, to not be baffled by CB DeSoto's "200 Meters And Down . . . " The history of ham radio is as much fun to me as being on the air.

[K9STH]

CWX:

When I was first licensed in 1959 you had to hold a General or Advanced licensed for TWO years before you could take the Extra exam. It was reduced to one year several years after that. But, it definitely was two years until some time in the 1960s.


As for Conditionals being required to retake their examinations: During the 1970s a very large number definitely were called in to retake their tests. One of these was the ARRL SCM out of Nevada (who also was the main person behind SAROC - largest "hamvention" west of the Mississippi at the time). He failed the exam twice and, to my knowledge, "faded into the woodwork".

Eventually, after the VE program came into being, the FCC dropped the "Conditional" label and just called the licensees "Generals".

Glen, K9STH

[w8znx]

my story first visit to Detroit FCC office
it was early winter 1967

passed the 13 wpm receiving test
was easy

thought i was well on my way
knew could pass writen test
did not get that far

FLUNKED the sending test

yes how many ops
you know flunked the sending test

should have heard my friends
they had never heard of anybody
flunking the sending test

spent all my time on receive speed
and no time sending



know of a near by a new age op
started few years ago
would just take a test
over and over and over and over

could try at least one test a week

sooner or later
you will get lucky and pass
then move on to next class

now has extra class license

op could not find a bucket of ohms
much less make a dipole

mac

[wa9cwx]

Thanks guys for the Extra info on the two years, I am pretty sure it was one year by the time I was getting up there into the higher classes, so must have changed in the sixties.

Never heard of flunking a sending test, but I suspect my FIRST test was a bit skimpy.
I did not know the fellow, only by telephone referal from a local Tech ham, who I also barely knew.

He lived a few towns over, and my dad drove me.

While doing my last minuet cramming, I realised I forgot to really study the, like.......CODE.....
SO...my dad drove slow, and I memeorized it down pat. Got to the guys house, went to his neat shack, and he started tuning around until he found some slow Novices and asked me to copy......I almost had an accident that would have required a change of clothes.
He left me alone for a long time with the receiver, and a code practice oscillator. He probably thought I was nervous. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Although I kind of KNEW the code a bit, I had forgotten to STUDY it, and I don't think I had ever really tried to COPY it, I did not own a code oscillator or key.

So I CRAMMED the tones in my head, he came back downstairs...... I am sure he was shaking his head in amazment at the lids that were invading his beloved hobby.....and he VERY carefully sent code for me to hear what it was supposed to sound like, then actually tested me, and I DID pass, legit like.

Sure hated that CW back then, seemed like a dumb way to talk...

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[W5HTW]

Most of the FCC Engineers-in-Charge actually had duties that did not involve either amateur or commercial testing. They were selected to do testing on those scheduled days, but the rest of the week or month, they did things like certify business or broadcast radio systems, track down interference to broadcast radio - or by broadcast radio, and carry out assignments from the FCC in Washington, regarding those types of duties. That is why most of them were pretty neutral about ham radio testing. It was just one of their many duties. In Denver we had a young engineer in the FCC office. I think he was an assistant. He was not a ham, but he did help the ham community with monitoring of our area repeaters to help identify and locate illegal activity. I do not recall his name. I had an IFR Service Monitor, and I used it now and then to assist him in locating illegal operation, such as someone who had stolen a ham radio and was playing on the air. That engineer, though, was usually kept busy visiting Colorado and other Rocky Mountain states broadcast stations, inspecting their logs, certifying their directional antenna configurations, and many other things relating to making certain BC stations were operated properly.

I remember that clause about an operator's license prior to 1917. I had forgotten about that! I don't think I knew anyone who qualified, though.

Like ZDY I knew hams who were "first holders" of two letter and three letter call signs. I envied them! But now, looking back, I was the first holder of a K4 call sign! That call sign has been reissued twice. In fact, a good many of the hams I knew in their 50s and 60s were first holders of 3-letter call signs, and some much younger ones were.

One of the hams who was my best friend for quite a while in the early sixties (not HIS early sixties!) was a 60s era Technician. He talked a bit on six meters, and had some 432 ATV equipment, and was on 220 often. But he was the real spirit of the Tech license! He designed and built, over and over. With the exception of a couple of surplus commecial radios (from the FAA) on two meters, just about everything in his five or six, six foot relay racks was home built. I still recall one of his pet projects he delighted in showing me every time I was at his house. It was a 14 tube triple conversion 220 mhz receiver! Using those little peanut tubes. It was about half the size of a cigar box, and the handiwork was marvelous. And it worked very well.

It was an honor to know him. He had no interest in HF radio in the slightest. He never got his General ticket and never wanted it. He was a pioneer in above UHF - SHF, microwave, ATV.

As to the two year requirement to test for Extra, when I took the test, it was following the beginning of Incentive Licensing. I held the Advanced only less than a year, but had been a General for about 13 years at the time. The FCC had a requirement you "be able to prove" you qualified to sit for the exam, by demonstrating with your logs, but I never heard of anyone having to actually do that. Of course they also had a requirement you had to show a certain number of hours of logged operating in the last year of your five year license term to renew. I think it was three hours, but don't recall for sure. I never heard of anyone having to prove that, either, but the rules said you had to be ready to if asked.

I think that would be a good policy today. But we don't keep logs! Darn.

Ed

[K3UD]

I seem to remember that you had to certifiy that you could still pass the test required for your class of license everytime you renewed.

Like several others here, I remember hams who had original 1X2 callsigns and who actually used Spark. I started listening to ham bands in 1960 using a Hammarlund Comet Pro receiver and there was still talk about the Spark era. During the mid to late 60s there were still hams on the air who had this experience. I had a few QSOs with some of these hams and always found it fascinating. A few of them told stories of using a Model T Ford ignition coil as a spark generator.

All of this faded away by the late 70s as those who cut their teeth on Spark became SKs. Today, I sometimes will have a QSO with hams who were licensed in the 30s. Their stories are always interesting, especially the talk about homebrewing and DXing back then. All of these hams are now in their 80s.

73
George
K3UD

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (K3UD @ June 21 2006,04:52)]I seem to remember that you had to certifiy that you could still pass the test required for your class of license everytime you renewed.

Like several others here, I remember hams who had original 1X2 callsigns and who actually used Spark. I started listening to ham bands in 1960 using a Hammarlund Comet Pro receiver and there was still talk about the Spark era. During the mid to late 60s there were still hams on the air who had this experience. I had a few QSOs with some of these hams and always found it fascinating. A few of them told stories of using a Model T Ford ignition coil as a spark generator.

All of this faded away by the late 70s as those who cut their teeth on Spark became SKs. Today, I sometimes will have a QSO with hams who were licensed in the 30s. Their stories are always interesting, especially the talk about homebrewing and DXing back then. All of these hams are now in their 80s.

73
George
K3UD
Actually, it was just the MORSE CODE that you had to certify you could still use at the speed required for your license to be able to renew. Does anyone remember the Fee for a license before that was eliminated?

BTW, Ed, some of us DO keep logs! (At least for CW/SSB work.) It's a good practice, but for routine repeater chat it's probably superfluous. But dropping the log requirement sure made mobile operation easier and safer.

[WA2ZDY]

I think the fee was $4 the last I remember. But I also remember forking out $20 to modify my Novice once when we moved. That was a killer as it was like two days of my mother's pay. Getting the ticket was free, modifying it was not!

Yes I remember that one had to certify being able to copy the speed for your ticket and a minimum number of hours to renew.

That never affected me though; in 31½ years of hamming, I've never renewed my license. I wonder if that's a record. What with upgrades, then moves, call changes, etc, I've just never gotten to an expiry date.

I remember quite a few old spark ops and I got my ticket in Jan 75. Chuck W2DED (Sk in the mid 80s) taught me about leydon jars, how to grab the motor from the washer to run the rotary gap, etc. (Many of you have seen my references to the Maytag motor in posts here. W2DED is where I first heard it. I got the idea his mother frequently needed to track hers down!)

Back to my reference about "200 Meters And Down" in an earlier post . . . most private pilots know who Orville and Wilbur were and how flying started. Most true car enthusiasts know about Henry Ford, Louis Chevrolet, etc. It still surprises and saddens me how many new hams have NO idea what "200 Meters And Down" even means.

Not that knowing our history would change a lot of things, but it's such an interesting history, seeing how much has changed in a relatively short time, and how we got to where we are now. I can't believe that book is out of print.

Fond memories

[WA9SVD]

Maybe one of the requirements for testing should be posession of a copy of the "Handbook." (I hate to have that sound like a plug for the ARRL , which it isn't.) But then there wouldn't (or shouldn't) be questions like "how do I make a dipole."

Now, if a new operator wants help with the mechanics of actually constructing a dipole, that's a somewhat different matter. There ARE many different ways, many different insulators that can be used, etc. But they should at least know how to calculate the length of wire needed, as well as realizing insulated wire will require a different length than bare wire, and such details. I believe the basic formula was on the original (OLD time) Novice exam; no memorization, just a frequency was given, and the length had to be calculated.

[K7JBQ]

Actually, the old license renewal requirements included attesting you were still proficient in Morse AND that you had operated a certain number of hours in the preceding six months. I've forgotten the actual number, but I'm sure Glen remembers it.

Gotta say this: One of the most enjoyable threads I've read here in quite some time. I'm sure a lot of younger ops read the stories and think to themselves: Those courthouse rooms with terrible acoustics (which was all of them -- it was a federal design standard!) and those stern-faced FCC engineers must have been terrifying places straight out of Dickens or the Brothers Grimm.

And the answer is: "Damn Straight."

73,
Bill

[W5JO]

I have a copy of the ARRL license manual published in 1972, and according to it, new or renewed licenses was $9, for modifications $4, duplicate licenses were $6 and special call signs was $25. Applications involving new or existing licenses of the Novice calss, or military recreations stations or RACES were exempt.

For renewal, Proof of Activity was not required for the station license, but the operator license required either 2 hours operating time during the last 3 months or 5 hours during the last 12 months. Operating an RC model would count, but all activity had to be logged but the book says nothing about furnishing the information when renewing. You had to sign a statement that you could meet the qualifications of the license class you were renewing and they only mention CW.

For higher class of license, anyone could upgrade to any class of license immediately except for the Extra. In the 1972 book the requirement was that the applicant be the holder of the Conditional, General or Advanced license for 2 years or more.

In this particular book the General test was much more involved than either the Advanced or Extra. In fact some of the questions in the Advanced study material refer back to the General portion. Most of the Advanced is theory discussion on various parts of electronic equipment and how to use it.

The Extra test used some block diagrams and a couple of circuit diagrams, but again, most of it is theory of different parts of a station and understanding of transmitters, receivers and test equipment. Not as difficult as todays test in terms of calculations. Only the General was comparable to todays.

The real difference today is an applicant has access to the questions that will be asked. Some questions will take an ohms law calculation and use the answer as part of the question and the taker must calculate the answer that was part of the question. This can throw a curve to many who just study the questions over and over.

So, on balance, I would say the requirements and tests today are fairly aligned with 1972. It is just a different method to promote efficiency in adminstering and grading the test, especially when the FCC, who was under budget constraints, provided the test. The fact that amateurs pressured the FCC about degradation is part of the reason of the existence of the VE program. Adminstering and grading tests is very time consuming and as mentioned before, most of their time was spent on broadcast stations and chasing troubles in the business band. Remember, the business radio system penetration was exploding at the time.

[WN4M]

The fear factor was a big thing for me on the FCC exams. I took mine in New Orleans, back in the late 60's. The test was given in the Federal Building, the best I remember. It was the tallest structure standing, and it had stacked log periodics on the roof. I was an ex cb'er hoping they hadn't monitored my talking. There really wasn't anything out of the ordinary, except they did have a lot of calculations on the test. I took all of mine on the same day, and went from cb'er to advanced ham in one sitting. Took me 25+ years to finally go to a ve session and get my advanced. If I could have passed the written I would have passed to extra right then and there. I passed the 20wpm code test no problem.

However, they gave me the same exact test for the 5, 13, and 20wpm tests. I guess it was a mistake on their part, but I was real solid at 13 wpm, and after getting the same test 2 times in a row, i figured what the heck, I'll try.
WN4M

[KC0OXE]

Thanx to all those who replied: I never thought when I posted this topic that I would get so many helpful responses.

It would appear that the process of getting a license has changed greatly over the years.

It would also appear that the type of test has changed over the years. From the replies, the tests given then were a combination of multiple choice, diagram, calculations, and troubleshooting circuits by "what if" questions, and that the test questions were more technically oriented. The fact that there were either no study guides, or limited study guides, so that the test questions and topics were much more of a surprise than today would mean that a candidate would have a better mastery of the material, much more than learning the answers in a guide. This would make for a harder test.

Again, thanx to all those who posted. I appreciate your taking the time to reply. Based on your replies, I have the utmost respect for those who had to take time off from school and travel a good distance to sit before a FCC engineer after passing a code test.

Incidentally, the book "200 Meters and Down", mentioned in one of the posts, is available from the ARRL. Additionally, a book by the Royal Society of Great Britain, consisting of reprints of a series of pamphlets published in the late 1940s, and advertised as "a historical encapsulation of electronics as it was and what radio amateurs were doing with it" is also available. See the History/Adventure section of the ARRL catalog, here
http://www.arrl.org/catalog/?category=History%2FAdventure&words=

[wa9cwx]

Just infusing a little nurishment into a tired thread...


Any comments on the 'New and Improved" 'Tech' license ?


#6 " Your name is ? "

A. Tom
B. Bob
C. Bob
D. -------------(I don't remember)
E. I do not have a name, yet.