ButI hate it when They do That

[k4lem]

qualifying you for an extra, it had to happen.

Children sending 10 wpm in the EXTRA CLASS CW sub bands.

I hate that ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[w8cbc]

I'm one of those damned kids. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Though I do tend to keep to the novice subs, I'll go wherever the (under 15 WPM) action is.

[N4QX]

Simple answer. Turn the VFO and call CQ at your desired speed.

I fail to see how people using their authorized privileges to practice their skills is a bad thing.

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (k4lem @ May 12 2006,10:22)]qualifying you for an extra, it had to happen.

Children sending 10 wpm in the EXTRA CLASS CW sub bands.

I hate that ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
I'm not sure why you hate that? SO, what you are saying is that next week when I get my license upgrade and the appropriate privelages, I am not to tune up in that section and send with my straight key at my copying speed? What if some rare DX pops up? Rare DX can't send moderate to slow code? By the way, when you say "children" are you being literal, or referring to someone with a new Extra license?

I can't help that the rules changed, not my fault. But I certainly am not going to deny myself the privelages afforded by the FCC based on the current requirements. Isn't qualifying to be an Extra class operator based more upon technical ability than CW operating?

As a CW operator, I would think that we would WANT every interested person who enjoys code operating on the bands, seeing that the mode, while still alive and kicking, is losing favor with the FCC and younger licensees. My advice to anyone angered by the idea of a 5 wpm Extra class license is that if you REALLY REALLY love code, encourage its use and practice at any operating level. Certainly, I am not going to straggle down to the extra subband and do slow speed practice when there is WAY too much space on the rest of the band, but I'll be darned if I hear a DX station calling CQ at a speed I can copy, that I will answer his CQ at MY operating speed and hope he doesn't mind a short contact, and I would QSY with him/her if need be to not tie up any high speed use of the band, but still, I would not hesitate to use my privelages.

Again, I reiterate. Give people who are operating CW a pat on the back, don't let trivialities like the year they were licensed and the requirements of that time to get under your skin, and in turn drive new operators away from that segment of the band. CW is supposed to be the segment with the reputation of good ham fellowship and friendliness, not grumpiness and bitterness!

[N8CPA]

I love it! Nowadays, it means a brass pounder is not using a keyboard.

[AG3Y]

LEM you sound just exactly like the O.F. that everyone thinks of when people mention the O.F.s that sit around and bellyache about their "rumitiz" or those "Young Whippersnappers" that are invading their previously exclusive territory. Shame on you !

You should be rejoicing that there is some new blood out there, willing to work for the license that the Government is currently giving out, and not acting as you are! It is no wonder that younger operators are turned off by the attitudes displayed by some of us O.F.s !

Get on the air and start talking to some of those "Extra-lites" You just might be amazed and amused by what you learn about them! And who knows, thanks to your efforts and the efforts of other O.F.s , perhaps Amateur Radio will not die on the vine as so many are predicting it will !

Jim ( another O.F., but one who hopes he is making a difference to the good ! )

[ai4ep]

Now look what you folks have done !!

Now the WHOLE WORLD knows that some CW operators can not get along.

Man, if the FCC gets wind of this, they may take away those frequencies and allocate them to .... ?

[nr4aw]

LEM: this isnt the first time ive heard you bellyaching about this. This time tomorow I will probly be an extra and like FRF I will not go to the lower 25 for a casuall slow speed QSO, but I wont hesitate to work a DX station when/if I hear him. Next time you hear a slow coder why dont you give him a call and give him some practice to get his speed up rather than jump on the web and bash him?

[w8znx]

K4LEM IS RIGHT!

now we have 5 wpm extra class ops
that can not send or receive
Morse code as well as novice ops
did 30 to 50 years ago

heck at 5 wpm
there should be a sending test
as well as a receiving test
like they did it 20 years ago

if you can't do at least 18/20 wpm
you should stay up band

WHERE YOU BELONG!

this is the way it was
even before there was
a extra class cw subband

slower ops stayed up band
as their skills improved
they moved down band
where faster ops hung out
this is the way its been
done for over 75 years

slow morse op
running below 7030 or 14030
is like Porgy in his goat cart
on a Interstate highway
you are going get run down
and blank everybody off
in the process

Mac

[AG3Y]

Mac, you have a good point, but you cannot find fault in the operators. You must put the blame where it belongs, right in the F.C.C.'s lap !

It is the F.C.C. that establishes the criteria for licensing requirments, and if a "young whippersnapper" takes and passes all the requirements, he/she should not be "dissed" by anybody, but rather should be encouraged to the utmost of our abilities.

I certainly do not see a gridlock on any of the Extra-Class subbands, and if I do happen to hear one or two "Extra-lites" operating at less than lightning speeds in the lower 25 of the band and choose not to work someone that slowly, I can almost always find a different frequency where I can stick my 30 wpm morse signal !

BTW, if you are the least familiar with the opera "Porgy and Bess", you should know that he headed off in his goat cart, to the cheers and adulations of his fellow "Catfish Row" neighbors. He did NOT "blank everybody off" in the process ! ! !

Jim

[KE5FRF]

So, Mac...

What do you propose that an Extra Class amateur who operates a straight key at 10 to 15 wpm do? Send his license back to the FCC and ask for his General license back?

Today I changed my mind about what is going to be the ultimate doom of amateur radio. It isn't CBers, it isn't No-Code Techs, and it isn't BPL...

It is grumpy old men who don't have anything positive to contribute anymore, over-the-hill and bemoaning their oldness, waving their walking canes at young kids as they ride by on their bicycles yelling "Stay off my property you damn kids", and sitting in their cold shack all alone, talking to other OFs on 80 meters and griping all the while about how much better life was way back when they pounded brass by the warmth of a wood burning stove.

It is no wonder you don't see any young hams at hamfests.

Understand, I understand your points, and you do have some valid ones. I don't believe it is good practice to go to the high speed segment and throw out a CQ at 5 wpm. But as someone said, what good does it do to gripe about it? Instead of seeing the glass half empty, see it as half full! Be glad that there are young operators enthusiastic enough about CW to use it and study and get their Extra License!

These frequencies were here long before any of us were born, and will be here long after we are all dead and gone. Do we want to gripe about every little thing because it is displeasing to YOU, or do we want to foster the future of ham radio for its survival after we are all dead and gone? Seems to me if a person TRULY loves amateur radio, they would be more interested in the ultimate health and existance of the hobby, and the persistance of CW as a viable mode, rather than their own personal interests and desires, which follow you to the grave.

[KI4ITI]

Quote[/b] ]now we have 5 wpm extra class ops
that can not send or receive
Morse code as well as novice ops
did 30 to 50 years ago
Yep. But that's the fault of changing requirements and culture in amateur radio, not the fault of the new op.

Quote[/b] ]if you can't do at least 18/20 wpm
you should stay up band

WHERE YOU BELONG!
That's interesting. I can't find anything in the FCC regulations or even in the ARRL band plan that says CW segments are divided between QRS and QRQ ops. You don't have the authority to tell other amateurs where they belong, and taking that attitude is only going to make the more contrary among them want to tick you off.

That said, I almost completely agree with your premise. With the exception of answering DX, I don't see why ops that want/need to work QRS can't stay in the upper segments as they traditionally have. Having that informal organization makes it easier to find a place on the band where "your kind of op" hangs out - really, QRQ and QRS are almost as different as CW and phone. Ops should be able to agree to segregate based on operating preference without bad feelings toward ops with other preferences. I'm a 5WPM Extra, my copy speed stinks, and I'm perfectly fine with staying up the band.

However, a gentlemen's agreement implies that the parties in question are gentlemen. Pulling rank or seniority and carping will only disillusion those who do respect you, and certainly won't gain you any respect from those who don't.

cheers
Josh KI4ITI

[k8pg]

SLOW OR FAST WHAT DOES IT MATTER? HOW IS THE SLOWER OPERATOR TO GAIN SPEED IF NO ONE WANTS TO QSO THEM,IT MATTERS NOT TO ME,I LIKE TO HELP THE NEW COMER and is no problem to copy 3wpm or 70 wpm we ALL started SOMEPLACEIf you hear me at 40 wpm and you call me at 10 wpm thats the speed Ill qso with you,Lets help these New Hams:) we need them today and they need Elmering! Call me at any SPEED:p WHAT DOES IT MATTER IF WE ARE 5WPM OR 70WPM WE ALL LIKE CODE AND ARE ALL AMATEURES,
LETS ENJOY WHAT WE HAVE:) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
DE-K8PG-PAUL CW LIVES:p

[n0iu]

...and I really hate it when those 16 year olds get their driver's license and drive on the same roads as me! Because of their raging hormones, they pose a real danger to themselves and others. They obviously don't have the experience, but their license does grant them the right to anything anywhere they want within the limits of the law. The best I can hope for is to use my age and experience to get out of their way!

We should be grateful that newcomers to amateur radio are even bothering to use CW. We all agree that the very best way to sharpen your CW skills is to put away the tapes, CDs, computer programs and other gadgets and get on the air and engage is real time conversations. When you run across one of these "newbies", why not have a QSO with them instead of spitting in their face!

On the other hand, I can also see your point. My "comfort zone" is in the 40+ WPM range. I earned that through a lot of years of being on the air. I know this makes me a CW snob, but when I hear one of these slow-coders, I just cringe at the thought of engaging them in a QSO... until I remember those who had QSOs with me when I was a greenie. I am ashamed to admit that I don't do that nearly often as I probably should. How else are they going to work their way up to our level?

I saw a post somewhere a long time ago that I thought was interesting. Almost every HF rig comes with a microphone. For example, my ICOM 756Pro came with their stock HM-36 microphone. It is still in the plastic bag in the box the rig came in. These can be purchased separately for about $75.00. The question is, why not bump the price of the radio a few bucks and include something along the lines of a Bencher paddle set. These can be had for just over $100 brand new. Maybe that would get more people to at least try it!

Sure, there are cheaper versions out there, but CW is like playing golf. When you first start out, you don't know if you will really like it so most people start out with "budget clubs" that are poorly made, not swing weighted and overall bad quality. Consequently, they don't play well and get discouraged. By starting out with a fairly decent set of paddles, one will naturally do better than with a knock-off paddle set.

I say the manufacturers should include a good set of paddles with every rig that has a built-in keyer.

Scott NØIU

[w8cbc]

Mac said: Quote[/b] ]slow morse op
running below 7030 or 1430

I don't run below 1430. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KE5FRF]

Interesting question this topic brings up in my mind...

And I would appreciate an informed answer..

What exactly is the reasoning behind the extra and advanced class segments?, I mean beyond the obvious of it being an area of extra privelage...what particular "magic" or advantage does these segments hold?

Scientifically speaking, these bands slices are no more or less able to propogate RF than the others, right? I mean, that doesn't make sense. RF is RF, no matter what frequency it is generated at. Dividing the spectrum up into bands is no different than mapping out area like you would land and establishing borders. There is no scientific reason for the lower 25 to be any "better"

So...if it is indeed better, it is because we have assigned value to it based upon some other measure. Is it as SIMPLE as class division? Is it kind of like the "Smoking Lounge" at an exclusive country club? The area where the uninitiated are not allowed? Or is it based upon the licensing structure of other countries, where some DX operators don't have the same band privelages as Americans, and rare DX is more likely to be heard because it is restricted to that narrow sliver? Or is it a remaining tradition based upon code speed, from back in the days when having an Extra ticket was a privelage based on 20 WPM proficiency, and the only reason some OFs are mad is because the Extra-lites didn't have to pass the same code requirement as the OTs?

Well, whatever the reason, the latter as I listed is outdated, and no longer applies. Since the FCC no longer requires a proficiency of 20 WPM, there can no longer be an EXPECTATION that people operating in the band where they have legal privelages should stay away from that band segment.

So, lets put this thought into coherence...

Next weekend I will be taking and most likely passing the element 4 test with flying colors. Based on this discussion we are having, is this a waste of my time? Should I not go take the element 4 test unless I can copy and send 20 wpm, despite the change in FCC rules several years ago? I need guidance, because if that is the case, I'll save my 14 bucks. No sense in wasting my money getting privelages that I may not ever "deserve" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Ah, enough of this silly arguement. I'll take my exam and operate where the FCC says I can, with all the courtesy and respect that I always show to my fellow operator.

[w8znx]

Porgy was going to find Bess in NYC
and take her back from Sporting Life

saddens me to inform you

Porgy was run down by Jeter Lester's son
Dude Boy
in the brand new but busted up Ford

Dude Boy beeing poor white trash
did not stop to help
went home and ran over his grandma
in front of the homested/shack

Bess found out about Porgys death
became a junky, night club singer
also turned tricks to pay for her jones
till one night she and Sporting Life
OD on some realy good smack

two extra light ops
a ten wpm working each other
in extra band
should be up band

20wpm extras
rag chewing in the extra band
should also be up band

don't turn in your extra light tic
use the extra fone bands

Mac-

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] ]two extra light ops
a ten wpm working each other
in extra band
should be up band

I TOTALLY disagree, and here is why...

I just got to thinking about WHY the extra portion of the band is a "privelage", and why the powers that be and the lobbyists who helped to formulate the FCC rules did what they did, in years gone by as well as today. I think the answer is pretty clear, but the idea of "eliteness" has clouded many of us into not understanding it.

It isn't about code speed, nor is it about being a better op...it is about QRM!!!

The General and Novice segements of the ban are littered with EVERYONE who holds HF privelages, across the board. Finding a nice quite frequency to hold a QSO, especially during good band conditions, is a challenge. And even during weak band conditions, a QSO may be going on just below the noise threshhold of your reciever, and you might be unaware, but nevertheless QRM and ongoing QSO unbeknownst to you. And likewise, you can easily be engaging in a QSO with a weak signal station and be the victom of unintentional QRM from a strong DX station who can't hear your signal. This is what the crowded band slices suffer.

The Extra band segments offer a quiet corner where people with the legal privelage can go, and be less likely to experience QRM.

This is indeed a GOOD thing, because not only does it make the QSO of the privelaged ops more readable and enjoyable, it reduces the likelyhood of unintentional QRM for other stations who don't have the privelage.

You might even think, REALLY, that good amateur practice could and SHOULD be for two amateurs with Extra privelages to QSY there QSOs over TO the Extra segement, to free up the band for QSOs involving operators who don't have the privelage, even Extra to Novice QSOs.

I think it is ALL about QRM and courtesy, not code speed.

So, I viemently object to the idea that an "extra-lite" should stay away from that segement and be content with the phone segements. That's plain silly. It is a purely elitist idea, and not becoming of you, Mac...I often think of you as a good fellow, but this opinion dissapoints me. Nothing personal, just dissillusioned by your comments.

[n0iu]

Quote[/b] (w8znx @ May 12 2006,07:16)]two extra light ops
a ten wpm working each other
in extra band
should be up band

20wpm extras
rag chewing in the extra band
should also be up band

don't turn in your extra light tic
use the extra fone bands

Mac-
Apparently w8znx was born with the ability to send and receive Morse code at 40+ WPM. Maybe no one helped him by having "slow-code" QSOs when he first got on the air and had to do it all on his own without help from anyone and now he is bitter and angry.

Again, we should be grateful these people are using CW at all and encourage them at every opportunity!

Scott NØIU

[w8znx]

i took the Advanced and Extra tests
for purely elitist reasons

have never been on 20 meter extra phone or cw
only once or twice on 75 meter extra phone
less than a dozen times on 80 es 40 extra cw

i did not take the test for more privileges
almost 99.9% of the time you will find me
in the General bands

looking for wide open spaces 80 meters cw
often less than 10 qso's going on
between 3500 and 3550
late night sometimes there is nobody on 80 cw
from 3500 to 3725

want to rag chew
stay up band
bottom is for working dx

yes i am a elitist
there are a few small things
that i can feel that way about

there are people that can do
just about EVERYTHING
better than i can
excpt for sailing and ham radio

Mac

[w8znx]

Quote[/b] (n0iu @ May 12 2006,12:41)]Apparently w8znx was born with the ability to send and receive Morse code at 40+ WPM. Maybe no one helped him by having "slow-code" QSOs when he first got on the air and had to do it all on his own without help from anyone and now he is bitter and angry.



Scott NØIU
Bunk
i learned the same way all the other
novice ops did by working other novice ops

then ran general band 35 to 50 kc
up from band edge

dont expect ops to slow down for you
if you want to hang out in places
where high speed ops work

ive never been faster than
30 wpm stick copy
5 letter/number code groups

[n0nwo]

I think this brings up an even bigger issue. She short sighted piece meal way the FCC and ARRL have made changes to han radio in the last 10 years.

We have people holding obsoleet Licenses, amd band plans still in existance for those obsoleet licenses. The ARRL has not been much help on volunteer band plan restructing either.

As a result, the band plans, volunteer and otherwise are overly complicated and almost pointless.

As for slow code ops in the bottom 25kc of a given band... Can you blame them? There are not enough high speed ops taking the time to slow down and troll for newer ops in those sub-bands. Soooooo, slow ops will go where they can find activity. If that is the bottom 25kc, then so be it. Since neither the FCC nor the ARRL seem to have any objections to slow code in Extra spectrum... no one else should either.

Here's an Idea! since the novice sub-bands are hardly ever used by anyone anymore, why not use that spectrum for high speed? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Minton

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] ]want to rag chew
stay up band
bottom is for working dx

Quote[/b] ]i took the Advanced and Extra tests
for purely elitist reasons

OK, well I WON'T be taking element 4 for elistist reasons, but rather for FUN and EDUCATIONAL reasons. Also, it will be something to be proud of and wear as a badge of honor, not to flaunt as a badge of superiority.

So, since my reasons are different, so can my operating methods be different. See you at 10wpm in the Extra subbands soon!

[w8znx]

Quote[/b] (n0nwo @ May 12 2006,13:04)]Here's an Idea! #since the novice sub-bands are hardly ever used by anyone anymore, why not use that spectrum for high speed? # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Minton
straight key century gang
is up on the novice sub bands

but there are many phone ops
hopeing that the novice sub bands
become part of the phone band

Mac

[AK7V]

It's not difficult - if you want a rag chew, stay above .025. #If you want to chase DX, go below. #That's what I do. There are exceptions, but I try to stick to that general plan.

QRM shouldn't be a big problem if you've got filters and passband tuning and know how to use them.

Honestly, though, I don't care if I hear a 10wpm guy down at .010.

[WA5VQM]

I've been sending and receiving CW since 1968. I really enjoy CW and I'll continue do so at whatever speed the situation dictates and wherever my license privledges allow.

What a way to bring in new converts to CW: "You stink if you don't know code and if you learn code you still stink since you didn't learn it when I did". http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Why should the no-code crowd even bother if they're going to get bashed no matter what they do?

[w8cbc]

Quote[/b] (w8znx @ May 12 2006,13:11)]straight key century gang
is up on the novice sub bands

but there are many phone ops
hopeing that the novice sub bands
become part of the phone band

Mac
Part of my agenda in proposing that we hang around in the novice subs was to populate them and thus make it more difficult for anyone to justify reallocating them on the basis of "they're not used".

It's good to hear the 3720+/- area well-filled most nights. I can always make a contact in there. It beats the way I'd call and call and call last year without a single reply.

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (WA5VQM @ May 12 2006,15:16)]I've been sending and receiving CW since 1968. I really enjoy CW and I'll continue do so at whatever speed the situation dictates and wherever my license privledges allow.

What a way to bring in new converts to CW: "You stink if you don't know code and if you learn code you still stink since you didn't learn it when I did". http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Why should the no-code crowd even bother if they're going to get bashed no matter what they do?
If there is anything that REALLY troubles me, it indeed is this type of elitism. Its kind of akin to the high school football player who picks on the chess club geek because he can't get the pretty cheerleader. In the end, the only person who really "cares" about that kind of snobbery is the football player, and often times he winds up being the loser who works down at the 7-11 while the chess club geek founds a fortune 500 company and gets girls with his money.

I don't want to have any part in elitism. I know many many Technician class ops who I respect far more because of technicial expertise and on air operating courtesy than some folks who can send 20 wpm code but can't handle a soldering iron.

Don't get me wrong, I am having a blast with CW and see myself as a CW op. I have way more fun honing my skills on CW than keying a microphone. Heck, if that was all there was to amateur radio, I would probably have never gotten licensed. But, I am certainly not awestricken by a person who has an Extra ticket based soley on CW speed. I admire the ability, but prove yourself an ELMER, and you'll endear every respect my humble soul can afford.

[WA5VQM]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ May 12 2006,13:34)]Quote[/b] (WA5VQM @ May 12 2006,15:16)]I've been sending and receiving CW since 1968. I really enjoy CW and I'll continue do so at whatever speed the situation dictates and wherever my license privledges allow.

What a way to bring in new converts to CW: "You stink if you don't know code and if you learn code you still stink since you didn't learn it when I did". http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Why should the no-code crowd even bother if they're going to get bashed no matter what they do?
If there is anything that REALLY troubles me, it indeed is this type of elitism. Its kind of akin to the high school football player who picks on the chess club geek because he can't get the pretty cheerleader. In the end, the only person who really "cares" about that kind of snobbery is the football player, and often times he winds up being the loser who works down at the 7-11 while the chess club geek founds a fortune 500 company and gets girls with his money.

I don't want to have any part in elitism. I know many many Technician class ops who I respect far more because of technicial expertise and on air operating courtesy than some folks who can send 20 wpm code but can't handle a soldering iron.

Don't get me wrong, I am having a blast with CW and see myself as a CW op. I have way more fun honing my skills on CW than keying a microphone. Heck, if that was all there was to amateur radio, I would probably have never gotten licensed. But, I am certainly not awestricken by a person who has an Extra ticket based soley on CW speed. I admire the ability, but prove yourself an ELMER, and you'll endear every respect my humble soul can afford.
A possible wrong assumption may be that someone who passes a 5 WPM code test can only do 5 WPM. ....And that someone in a 10 WPM QSO can only do 10 WPM.

You take the test you're given. It's not their fault it's 5WPM.

I took a 13 WPM test. When I took it I could send/receive faster. When I upgrade to Extra and happen to be in a 10WPM QSO will someone assume "there's one of those 5 WPM Extras again!" when in fact I can do 20?

I'm on the pro-code side of things but don't care for the elitism.

[W4HAY]

I like to hear 'em down there! It means the little brasshoppers are trying to learn. Slow your keyer down to slightly above their speed and work 'em. Push 'em just a bit and their speed will increase. Wax on, wax off!

edited to add: And dammit, be an example! Send good code, not this choppy chickenscratch we hear some of the wanna-be speed demons spewing out! Remember the FISTS admonition: Accuracy Transcends Speed!

[N3ATS]

Quote[/b] (w8znx @ May 12 2006,12:54)]if you can't do at least 18/20 wpm
you should stay up band

WHERE YOU BELONG!

Mac
I agree Mac. Nothing worse than a Chevette in the fast lane.

[w8cbc]

Chevrolets don't belong on the big roads to begin with. They wind up cluttering the shoulders. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[k9ekg]

Quote[/b] (w8znx @ May 12 2006,10:54)]K4LEM IS RIGHT!

now we have 5 wpm extra class ops
that can not send or receive
Morse code as well as novice ops
did 30 to 50 years ago

heck at 5 wpm
there should be a sending test
as well as a receiving test
like they did it 20 years ago

if you can't do at least 18/20 wpm
you should stay up band

WHERE YOU BELONG!

this is the way it was
even before there was
a extra class cw subband

slower ops stayed up band
as their skills improved
they moved down band
where faster ops hung out
this is the way its been
done for over 75 years

slow morse op
running below 7030 or 14030
is like Porgy in his goat cart
on a Interstate highway
you are going get run down
and blank everybody off
in the process

Mac
You should learn how to write appropriate sentences and punctuation before you chastise someone else about their skills.

[KF0RT]

Mac's right.

While your Extra class license allows legal access to the low end of the CW band, your expertise may not be up to it. This has less to do with elitism and more to do with international custom and convention.

Here in the U.S., we have confused rights with privilege and tend to think that the whole world works like we do. Guess what? When you signed your Form 610 (or 605), you became part of an international community.

Wanna make the U.S. look [more] stupid? Here's your sign...

73, Rob

[M3KCK]

Quote[/b] (WA5VQM @ May 12 2006,21:16)]I've been sending and receiving CW since 1968. I really enjoy CW and I'll continue do so at whatever speed the situation dictates and wherever my license privledges allow.

What a way to bring in new converts to CW: "You stink if you don't know code and if you learn code you still stink since you didn't learn it when I did". http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Why should the no-code crowd even bother if they're going to get bashed no matter what they do?
A very Good Post!

Applies to most topics in Amateur Radio, Such as Class of Licence ect, ect

In this day & age of Modern communications such as the Internet and Mobile phones ect we are Lucky to get anyone Interested in the Hobby especially the younger generation! And when they do enter the Hobby what do they get??

You’re a newbie so I won’t talk to you?

You did not pass the same Exam as me?

You don’t know Morse code?

ect, ect
And some people don’t even need to be Old to be an OF
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
73
Regards,
Andrew M3KCK

[AG3Y]

ekq, go easy on Mac. You don't know why he writes the way he does, and you shouldn't criticize him about it.

I may not agree with everything that Mac says, but as the old Patriot said many years ago, " I will defend with my life, his right to say it! "

I wonder if you could express yourself as well as Mac does, if you were in the same circumstances as he finds himself to be?

Jim

[ab0wr]

Quote[/b] (N3ATS @ May 12 2006,15:27)]Quote[/b] (w8znx @ May 12 2006,12:54)]if you can't do at least 18/20 wpm
you should stay up band

WHERE YOU BELONG!

Mac
I agree Mac. #Nothing worse than a Chevette in the fast lane.
I agree with Mac also. This has been a long established "gentleman's agreement" in the voluntary bandplan that ham's *used* to follow.

I think it is very funny that I see some of the very same people I saw defending the ARRL's stance in it's bandwidth regulation proposal that said hams would follow voluntary bandplans now speaking about violation of the existing voluntary bandplan as being a *good* thing.

It makes you wonder just how long these people that think a voluntary bandplan is a good thing would actually follow one? Probably until it was convenient to *not* follow it!

tim ab0wr

[WA5VQM]

After 38 years of hamming I just now learn I'm not welcome in some parts of the bands.

Interesting.

Wonder how a newbie feels.

[K3UD]

There is something not right about this. If you have an Extra Class license you are entitled to use all of the spectrum available to that class. This discussion reminds me of some of the nets on 75 meters where how much power you use seems to be a qualifier to get into the net, or how good your audio is serving as a qualifier to get into one of those broadcast quality audio nets.

There are no regulations concerning how fast or how slow your sending must be in order to use the low end of the band. Why does it even matter?

If I fire up my straight key and call CQ at 8-12 WPM on 7.008 MHz, why should anyone at 7.020 MHz care? If I use my keyer at 20-25 WPM at 7.130, why should someone at 7.140 sending at 5-10 WPM care about my higher speed?

I almost sounds like there is a movement here to regulate the traditional CW bands by code speed. I would think that it may be a good thing that hams would use code on the air at any speed.

What am I missing here?

73
George
K3UD

[wa9cwx]

It is legal to call CQ right next to an ongoing QSO, it is legal to call the other operator "dude" instead of his stated name, it is legal to tie up a repeater talking to your next door neighbor, it is legal to ask for ten repeats of your RST report, it is legal to call a DX station on his frequency when he signs with "Up 2", it is legal to work USB on 40 and 75, it is legal to answer a CQ and then just change frequency and ignore the contact you made, and it is legal to take the TINY portion of the lower bands that are used by DX ops, listening for weak signals, and just have a ragchew with another ham, it is also legal to plop down in the tiny spectrum where high speed ops enjoy a relaxing high speed QSO and just call CQ at 5 bad WPM instead of using the time honored higher band potions that were used for this needed, but different type of operating.

No problem. Do what you want, defend it, and full speed ahead. Just what everyone needs, someone with less than a years experience, dictating what SHOULD be, to a 40+ year ham. Nice job.

[WA5VQM]

Quote[/b] (K3UD @ May 13 2006,06:11)]If I fire up my straight key and call CQ at 8-12 WPM on 7.008 MHz, why should anyone at 7.020 MHz care? If I use my keyer at 20-25 WPM at 7.130, why should someone at 7.140 sending at 5-10 WPM care about my higher speed?

I almost sounds like there is a movement here to regulate the traditional CW bands by code speed. I would think that it may be a good thing that hams would use code on the air at any speed.

What am I missing here?

73
George
K3UD
Funny, in all these years it's never bothered me either.

I already know where the RTTY folks, the QRP folks, the PSK folks, the nets, etc hang out so I stay away from those areas. Never knew we had minimum speed limits. I just answered CQs at whatever speed they were sent at and filtered out what I didn't want to hear.

The other night I heard a CQ at about 10 WPM at 14.027. I answered him at around the same speed and we had a nice chat. He was in Russia.

Awhile later there was another station around 14.050 (oops!) sending 20 WPM or so. Worked him too. Another Russian.

Someone needs to tell these DX stations to quit doing that.

Honest to the diety of your choice I never knew of a "speed bandplan" in my 38 years of hamming. I thought you just went with the flow.

It seems like we're just putting up more barriers to using code than encouraging it. Someone will be stuck at 5WPM forever or more likely give up altogether if once they work up the courage to get on the air they get yelled at. Sure, don't answer a 20WPM CQ at 5, but geez, whatever happened to encouraging the newbies?

Who's really being selfish and self-centered here?

I don't see the problem. I'd rather hear 10 wpm CW activity, than no CW at all.

[k8pg]

I LIKE WHAT W4HAY SAID,WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE THE NEW CW OPERATOR,WHAT DOES IT MATTER IF YOU HAVE A QSO AT 40WPM OR 5WPM WE "NEED" TO TAKE THESE FOLKS AND HELP THEM,IT MATTERS NOT TO ME IF IAM IN THE LOWER 25 OR MUCH HIGHER! WHERE DOES IT SAY ITS ONLY USED FOR DXING???WHEN I HEAR A NEW OPR ON I WORK THEM AND GIVE THEM ENCOURAGEMENT AND PRAISE:) MY SON HAS HAD HIS GENERAL TICKET SINCE HE WAS 9 YRS OLD AND NOW 20,HES RUSTY BUT STILL ENJOYS A CW QSO .THE LICENSING STRUCTURE SUCKS NOW.WE NEED A BETTER ENTRY TICKET SOMETHING LIKE THE BRITTS DID AND THE AUSTRALIANS HAVE,THE BANDS WOULD BE USED MORE,A NEW TICKET THAT GRANTS
FM/AM/SSB/CW AND DIGITAL ON ALL BANDS AT SAY 100W ERP,IAM AN O.F. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif NEW TECHNOLGIES COME FROM FRESH MINDS IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THEY USE CW OR SSB.......:rock: LIKE IT OR NOT THEY "ARE THE FUTURE" OF THE HOBBY(ADVOCATION?):) IF YOU HAVE THE LICENSE USE IT WHERE EVER YOU WANT:) THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A 5WPM EXTRA AND I IS TIME! THINGS CHANGE
IAM NOT SUPPOSED TO TALK TO YOU BECAUSE YOUR ONLY A TECH/+ 0R A 5WPM EXTRA-BUNK,I KNOW A FEW TECH/+ THAT ARE A LOT MORE TECH SAVY THAN IAM ON TODAYS SOLIDSTATE DEVICES,HOW MANY OF YOU CAN SAY THAT !GO FOR IT FELLOW AMATEURES AND HAVE FUN,BUT REMEMBER THE AMATEURES CODE OF CONDUCT:)SOMEONE SNOBS YOU TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT,WE ARE NOT ALL AXXXX! TAKE CARE,AND BLESS ARE MEN AND WOMEN IN HARMS WAY LETS SAY A PRAYER FOR THEM ON THIS MOTHERS DAY AND HOPE THEYCOME HOME SOON! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
DE-K8PG-PAUL:p

[M3KCK]

Quote[/b] (k8pg @ May 14 2006,20:04)]WE NEED A BETTER ENTRY TICKET SOMETHING LIKE THE BRITTS DID AND THE AUSTRALIANS HAVE,THE BANDS WOULD BE USED MORE,A NEW TICKET THAT GRANTS
FM/AM/SSB/CW AND DIGITAL ON ALL BANDS AT SAY 100W ERP,
The strange thing is here in the U.K is that New Amateurs seem to start off on 2m even though they have Full access to HF (except 10m until Oct)

New Amateurs in the USA can not use HF and would like to? Whereas New U.K Amateurs seem to be Happy on 2 metres!! Does not make sense!
I spent my first six months operating only on HF before I even thought about 2m and I am pleased that I did.
If I was restricted to 2m Only I don’t think I would still be operating,
73
Regards,
Andrew M3KCK

[WA7KKP]

Would you complain if someone was driving about 20-25 mph on the interstate in a blizzard? Sounds like you would . . . .

Maybe band conditions were marginal and he had to send slow to make the QSO.

I've heard 30+ wpm in the Novice subbands -- should we make all of them slow down to 5 wpm for the rest? I think not . . .

Just work on your skills, and let live . . .

Gary WA7KKP

[k0cmh]

Well, I started out as a 5 wpm General. But now my speed is up to 12 wpm. I refuse to QSO with anyone slower than me. Hi Hi... Just kidding.

[kb9rqz]

Quote[/b] (M3KCK @ May 13 2006,13:14)]Quote[/b] (k8pg @ May 14 2006,20:04)]WE NEED A BETTER ENTRY TICKET SOMETHING LIKE THE BRITTS DID AND THE AUSTRALIANS HAVE,THE BANDS WOULD BE USED MORE,A NEW TICKET THAT GRANTS
FM/AM/SSB/CW AND DIGITAL ON ALL BANDS AT SAY 100W ERP,
The strange thing is here in the U.K is that New Amateurs seem to start off on 2m even though they have Full access to HF (except 10m until Oct)

New Amateurs in the USA can not use HF and would like to? Whereas New U.K Amateurs seem to be Happy on 2 metres!! Does not make sense!
I spent my first six months operating only on HF before I even thought about 2m and I am pleased that I did.
If I was restricted to 2m Only I don’t think I would still be operating,
73
Regards,
Andrew # M3KCK
I would ask the gentleman to look at England and the Usa on maps of the same scale and rethink why he wonders that the 2 gruops of hams he wonders about might have different interests

[ab8ro]

I like to stay between 7040 and 7060 for the most part. Except when I'm tuning up, then I pop down to the tuning sub-band. Hey, I figure you experts can handle the QRM better than the noobs. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (WA5VQM @ May 12 2006,13:16)]I've been sending and receiving CW since 1968. I really enjoy CW and I'll continue do so at whatever speed the situation dictates and wherever my license privledges allow.

What a way to bring in new converts to CW: "You stink if you don't know code and if you learn code you still stink since you didn't learn it when I did". http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

Why should the no-code crowd even bother if they're going to get bashed no matter what they do?
I think this issue is like the guy on the interstate driving 35mph. There's nothing wrong with 35MPH, just not in the left lane. And the grumpyness I see here is akin to someone coming up behind the slow driver in the left lane when the right lane is clear for miles. Yes, the faster driver can pass on the right, but shouldn't the slow driver just have the SENSE to move over? However, I'll bet you that the slow driver has his panties in a big wad about his "right" to be there. LOL!!

If you're a new CW Operator, here is some advice:

Learn about the history and good operating techniques of CW. Here are two excellent sources. The first is a book available by chapter online, and the second is the famous "Novice Accent" article. Novice="Newbee" these days for the purpose of this article. Intrestingly enough, you rarely had a big problem with slow OPS in the fast lane in years gone by because OPS were more interested in how they sounded to other OPS than they were about "their constitutional right to be wrong" albeit not by statue.

<A href=http://www.geocities.com/gm0rse/n0hff/contents.htm>Robert Pierpont's Book</A>

<A href=http://home.satx.rr.com/kcomm/Article.html>W6DTY "The Novice Accent"</A>

[ab8ro]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Aug. 10 2006,08:12)]I think this issue is like the guy on the interstate driving 35mph. #There's nothing wrong with 35MPH, just not in the left lane. #And the grumpyness I see here is akin to someone coming up behind the slow driver in the left lane when the right lane is clear for miles. #Yes, the faster driver can pass on the right, but shouldn't the slow driver just have the SENSE to move over? However, I'll bet you that #the slow driver has his panties in a big wad about his "right" to be there. #LOL!!
Ok, first the qualifier, If I've ever been below 7030 it's because someone bumped my tuning knob and DX to me is any state I can't drive to in a day.

But, if you're going to try and prove things by analogy let's make sure that you get them right.

On the freeway the guy on the left doing 35 when the right lane is clear is an ass just like the guy trying to send 10wpm to his buddy doing 10wpm in the extra segment when the band is crowded and there's lots of room above 7025.

Now, let's say mr 35mph always drives in the right lane like a good citizen. Then he takes the next exit to hit the local tasty freeze cause it's the only one for a hundred miles around. Hey, if you want tasty freeze, that's where ya go. And he happens to get there a split second before you do. What right do you have to complain, none, that's what. The exit is one lane and you have to wait your turn. He has just as much right to be there as you do. You should be polite, slow down to 20 mph (that's what mr 35 does on the offramps), and wait for the next opportunity to pass.

DX is the tasty freeze.

QED.

[ab9lz]

Quote[/b] (ab8ro @ Aug. 11 2006,07:09)]I like to stay between 7040 and 7060 for the most part. Except when I'm tuning up, then I pop down to the tuning sub-band. Hey, I figure you experts can handle the QRM better than the noobs. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
That comment sir... made me spit my coffee out, funniest thing I've read all day!

[W7WV]

Some complain when you don't know code
Some complain when those that are inexperienced try to use it.
And then there is this post.
Everyone had to learn somewhere, at some time.
We were all rookies at one time or the other and some of us will just never be high speed ops.
Just my thoughts.

[KC0OXE]

I'm a Tech class who is still learning code, and I wanted to share this with the other members of this thread because I think is has some relevance.

I was at a friends house the other night and he was on 40m. My friend can listen at 30-35 wpm, so when he made contact with someone in Oregon it was at that speed. They were having a nice chat when my friend mentioned that I was in the shack with him and was learning code. The operator in Oregon immediately slowed down to about 10 wpm and I was actually able to pick out some of the letters that I knew.

Now he didn't have to do that, but the fact that he did is something that I consider a CLASS act. I was then, and still am, greatly impressed. It inspired me to study even harder over the past few days so that I might someday be able to join the conversation.

/*rant on*/
What I am NOT impressed by is the number of members of this forum who seem to think that they are someone truly special because they had to walk 100 miles into a blizzard, across uncharted territory without compass, map or sextant, up hill, into the wind, bare foot, on a day that they played hookey from school, fighting off wolves and CBs in eighteen wheelers, to face the world's most unfriendly FCC engineer --- a man so mean that when they broke their only pencil, he refused to lend them another, and so they ended up writing the exam (and diagramming the dreaded Colpitts circuit) in blood that they got out of puncturing their finger. Not to mention the 100 wpm code test in the echo room that they had to pass after building their own radio out of a pile of spare parts that they had carried into the exam site (uphill, into the wind and snow, etc. etc.) This experience obviously makes them so special that they can now lord it over the rest of the HAM population who took a mere multiple-choice test and had to pass a 5 wpm code test for their license.

There are two clubs within driving distance of my home to which I belong. One believes in helping new hams: it has a very active kids group and takes great pride in nuturing them into code and the higher class licenses. Meetings typically have 25-30 people. The other is composed of members about my age (60) who are nice enough to talk to but take no interest in helping the less experienced: at the last meeting, when I asked for someone to help elmer me in learning to send code, the silence from the eight other attendees was deafening. Finally someone muttered that they didn't do code much -- this from a group that had six extras in the audience. Guess which club is going to prosper and grow?

So the way I see it when someone calls on a band where the culture is of code over 20 wpm, there are two alternatives: first, don't answer, and maybe he'll go away. Second, slow down and answer and encourage someone not as skilled to develop. Of course, the danger with answering is that you might encourage him to continue to use that frequency the next time.

But in either case, he has just as much right to be on the band as you, so there's no reason, other than just sheer curmudgeonry, to complain about it. After all, he paid his $14 for his license just as you did.

And, as a last thought, I don't believe that I have ever seen a group as unfriendly towards newcomers as the HAM community. Not in the fraternities of shooting, archery, orienteering, or even in the military with all its cliques, where I was everything from a "leg" to an Special Forces "god" and so saw all aspects of it, were newcomers so scorned as not being good enough because their rite of passage was not as "rigorous" as the older members. While the overall number of HAMs may be remaining steady, the overall growth is not keeping up with the population, and certainly not increasing at the rates it was in the 50s and 60s. I wonder why --- could it possibly be the way new members are received and encouraged?
/*rant off*/

I now invite scathing comments from those who will complain of my temerity for speaking up as a "No Code Tech." http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

JLK
KC0OXE

[W0LPQ]

OXE .. correction ... for some it was 150 miles, blinding snow storm, no parka and shorts..! And for the unfriendly ham (not HAM) community, there are good ones and bad ones ... you were unlucky and stumbled across one that I would not even mess with. Been active for over 40 years and have helped a bunch of them get going. Some dropped it for kids, school, etc, but the majority have come back active.

Yeah ... class act ... slow down for you try to copy, man what a guy he was ..!! Shame more don't do that.

Amateur Radio ... is ... what YOU make of it. If they want to ignore people, hey ... no loss to me ... it is THEIR loss, but they will never see it.

Keep up the good work ... beat that key to death.

Bill, W0LPQ

[K0RGR]

You forgot to mention that the FCC examiner had lost one arm while flogging prospective Extra Class hams.

The low end of the band was always the 'DX' window, and the more experienced ops were the ones who were usually there.

[KC0OXE]

[QUOTE]Amateur Radio ... is ... what YOU make of it. If they want to ignore people, hey ... no loss to me ... it is THEIR loss, but they will never see it. [UNQUOTE}

I know.

I was being unfair in my post to most of the forum, who is friendly and does help, but I just couldn't resist poking a pin at the self-inflated balloon of importance held by some of the more ill-mannered and small-minded members.

What a shame to take such an attitude with all the skills and knowledge they could offer to newcomers. And they would certainly gain more respect as venerated OM than they do now as curmurdgeonly OF.

JLK
KC0OXE

[KI4CIA]

OXE and LPQ – well said!

Yes, I agree there are some out there with the “better than thou” attitude, especially towards young people, newly licensed ops, and even YL’s. And as for the forum members, there may be about 5% that truly fit that bill. But you learn pretty quick who they are, where they hang out, and I just avoid them like the plague that they are.

But, I’ve come across quite a few “classy” ops who will take the time to elmer new ops and give encouragement. Even made a few close friends on the air and even from here.

Like LPQ said, amateur radio is what you make of it.

OXE - Glad to have you here and hope to meet you on the air sometime, CW or SSB!

73,
Melinda / KI4CIA

[W0LPQ]

OXE I don't think anyone will disagree with you..! #But, it is THEIR choice to be idiots, not yours. #There is also the possibility that their "skills" are not up to par (they might think they are) and do not want to appear to not have a clue what they are talking about. #In other words, sharp as a tack, but dumb as a 10 pound sack of rusty nails.

Put your head above theirs and "pound that key"!!

edit: RGR I had forgotten the one-armed guy..! Sorry about that ... memory slips past 65..!

Bill, W0LPQ

[ab9lz]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ Aug. 11 2006,10:32)]You forgot to mention that the FCC examiner had lost one arm while flogging prospective Extra Class hams.

The low end of the band was always the 'DX' window, and the more experienced ops were the ones who were usually there.
Like many have said it's a gentlemen's rules of the road thing. But... if you are a slo poke extra, and hear an unanswered DX CQ down there, by all means go for it, the DX guys (and almost all Hams save for a few of the OF's in this thread, and I betcha most of them would too) are usually more than happy to slow down in return.

73 Mark.

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (KI4CIA @ Aug. 11 2006,10:42)]OXE and LPQ – well said!

Yes, I agree there are some out there with the “better than thou” attitude, especially towards young people, newly licensed ops, and even YL’s. And as for the forum members, there may be about 5% that truly fit that bill. But you learn pretty quick who they are, where they hang out, and I just avoid them like the plague that they are.

But, I’ve come across quite a few “classy” ops who will take the time to elmer new ops and give encouragement. Even made a few close friends on the air and even from here.

Like LPQ said, amateur radio is what you make of it.

OXE - Glad to have you here and hope to meet you on the air sometime, CW or SSB!

73,
Melinda / KI4CIA
Yes, I had many of dumb headed OF's try to tell ME how to work CW, make fun of my slow fist, not slow down for me. Funny how when I calmed down and listened to what they were trying to tell me, they weren't so dumb afterall...

[K4KWH]

Well let me ask this question: When those "slo-code" ops DO achieve 20-30 WPM, how will you then tell the difference that you percieve that now makes them somehow inferior. This code speed thing is, at the bottom line--nothing more than a way for *some*of us to feel "better" than someone else in some way. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif #Like others have said, it is really nothing more than "elitism". How soon we forget that we ourselves once were pecking along slowly trying to sort out each letter individually. Gradually, we found that we could pick out phrases--even anticipate what the sender was going to say before he sent it! #So at what point do we get this superiority complex and get forgetful of our past efforts?

I DO understand both sides of the issue, but I think the high speed fellas are not really seeing just HOW their posts come off--especially to the non-hams and WORSE to the CB crowd we sometimes mock!! :0

We should be encouraging new people, HELPING them by visiting the "slo" areas, boosting them for their efforts and encouraging them to new heights in ham radio.

As to the "children" on the Extra segments. NOTHING excites me more than hearing "age here is 17, or 12, or even 10"! #WOW! That lets me know there is a future for ham radio after *this* old buzzard is gone and I hope I will NEVER, NEVER feel "superior" to anyone--especially any young ham. May I always be open, eager to talk to young folks, NEVER grumpy, grouchy, set in my ways, and ALWAYS ready to LAUGH, PLAY, and #ENCOURAGE young hams even at 5 WPM. Those "kids" really excite me to hope and I will QSO with them OVER us old grumpy buzzards ANY day!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[K4KWH]

Well let me ask this question: When those "slo-code" ops DO achieve 20-30 WPM, how will you then tell the

OOPS! Sorry for "doubling"!

J

[w0tdh]

Quote[/b] (KC0OXE @ Aug. 11 2006,09:43)]/*rant on*/
What I am NOT impressed by is the number of members of this forum who seem to think that they are someone truly special because they had to walk 100 miles into a blizzard, across uncharted territory without compass, map or sextant, up hill, into the wind, bare foot, on a day that they played hookey from school, fighting off wolves and CBs in eighteen wheelers, to face the world's most unfriendly FCC engineer --- a man so mean that when they broke their only pencil, he refused to lend them another, and so they ended up writing the exam (and diagramming the dreaded Colpitts circuit) in blood that they got out of puncturing their finger. Not to mention the 100 wpm code test in the echo room that they had to pass after building their own radio out of a pile of spare parts that they had carried into the exam site (uphill, into the wind and snow, etc. etc.) This experience obviously makes them so special that they can now lord it over the rest of the HAM population who took a mere multiple-choice test and had to pass a 5 wpm code test for their license.

There are two clubs within driving distance of my home to which I belong. One believes in helping new hams: it has a very active kids group and takes great pride in nuturing them into code and the higher class licenses. Meetings typically have 25-30 people. The other is composed of members about my age (60) who are nice enough to talk to but take no interest in helping the less experienced: at the last meeting, when I asked for someone to help elmer me in learning to send code, the silence from the eight other attendees was deafening. Finally someone muttered that they didn't do code much -- this from a group that had six extras in the audience. Guess which club is going to prosper and grow?

So the way I see it when someone calls on a band where the culture is of code over 20 wpm, there are two alternatives: first, don't answer, and maybe he'll go away. Second, slow down and answer and encourage someone not as skilled to develop. Of course, the danger with answering is that you might encourage him to continue to use that frequency the next time.

But in either case, he has just as much right to be on the band as you, so there's no reason, other than just sheer curmudgeonry, to complain about it. After all, he paid his $14 for his license just as you did.

And, as a last thought, I don't believe that I have ever seen a group as unfriendly towards newcomers as the HAM community. Not in the fraternities of shooting, archery, orienteering, or even in the military with all its cliques, where I was everything from a "leg" to an Special Forces "god" and so saw all aspects of it, were newcomers so scorned as not being good enough because their rite of passage was not as "rigorous" as the older members. While the overall number of HAMs may be remaining steady, the overall growth is not keeping up with the population, and certainly not increasing at the rates it was in the 50s and 60s. I wonder why --- could it possibly be the way new members are received and encouraged?
/*rant off*/

I now invite scathing comments from those who will complain of my temerity for speaking up as a "No Code Tech." http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

JLK
KC0OXE
/*rant on*/......? # #some kind of computer nerd/geek stuff I guess.

And they howl about me using Ham Speak #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I really do like where the other Ham slowed down for you to be able to copy. That was class.

Courtesy is missing in a lot of places, even in the left lane behind a slower moving car.

He does have the right to be there and we do not have the right to tailgate/shove him off the road.

On the other hand.........

Showing disrespect for the older Hams is Not a class act.

If they seem distant, try a little harder. Go to that meeting that the folks seemed to be more difficult.
They are all potential "Elmers". Draw them out of their shells. Plenty to be learned there.
The gruffest, meanest of the lot would be happy to help if you approach them the right way. #
Just like the the slow car in the left lane. He would/might move over if you kept a respectable distance and not act like a fool.
OF's expect you to earn your way. Show respect. That is the only way to get their respect. If not, then you may well be treated as children.

The Elitists that I perceive, are the newer Hams (not all ), wanting, demanding........ something for nothing.
When they don't get it, they whine es grumble es BLAME SOMEONE ELSE for their woes.

Horse Hockey.........................

Show respect es you might get respect. Might not either....depends a great deal on your attitude......as well #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

73,

TDH

[K4KWH]

Quote[/b] (kd8bsr @ May 12 2006,15:30)]Chevrolets don't belong on the big roads to begin with. #They wind up cluttering the shoulders. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
AWRITE!!! #THAT does it! #You quit making fun of my "Shiv-o-lay" right now! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Seriously, I've had nothing BUT Chevrolet since 1973, and WON'T! #That was the last time I ever visited a Ford store when I learned to spell FORD backwards.

D river

R eturning

O n

F oot! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif


See, I got strong legs in those days because I owned a Mustang (1972) and IT was the thing that populated the shoulders of the road. #My buddies answered the phone, and recognizing the "hello", responded with,

"OK, Where ya at THIS time!"

I ain't LYIN'!!

Thirty three years later, I have had several Chevrolets, all of which went 150,000 to 210,000 miles (unless I just got car fever) and the last Chevy wagon went 198,000 with nary a wrench put on the engine or transmission except for routine maintenance, and now I have a '97 Chevy S10 pickup now at 150,000. It has been absolutely trouble-free and the only issues I have had are batteries (went dead once without warning--Sears Diehard, too!), an alternator (I changed it myself), #a water pump and brakes (which I also replaced myself to cut out the Midas man). Heck, I drive that pickup everywhere.

And I ain't never been Found On Road Dead (yet), so WATCH that stuff, boy! HaHa!

(just kiddin', most all cars these days are WAY better than back in the '70's!....even a Fix Or Repair Daily!)





http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73

[N2RJ]

If you want slow coders and "extra lites" (like me) out of the extra CW subband, then just fire up your rig and occupy the band.

THERE ARE NO ASSIGNED FREQUENCIES IN AMATEUR RADIO. NONE.

If you want to occupy a frequency you have to use it. And if you don't want to use it, someone else who can and has the privilege to do so will.

So stop your kvetching and get on the air!

[M3KCK]

It is always interesting reading this stuff,

With Big debates on Qrz.com regarding Morse code and the Code/No code debate ect then I would have thought that Amateurs would be Pleased to have a Fellow Amateur learn Morse Code and even Happier to have them Use Cw at any speed http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

As it is here and like it will be in the USA, Amateurs in the U.K do not have to pass a Code test to use HF so Anyone who takes it upon themselves to learn Morse code and use Cw should in my opinion be praised for doing so.

And not to forget that we here can operate Cw in Any of the Cw portions of the bands at Any speed!!
So does this mean that you would not want a Cw Qso with us mere Brits?
I am sure that you understand what I am saying,
Good day to You,
es 73
Regards,
Andrew M3KCK

[ka0gkt]

1) #Answering a CQ from someone who has a decent fist with the CQ CQ CQ DE (CALL) at 12-18 wpm but who qualify for the QLF award in a name/wx/qth QSO.

2) #An op who sends CQ at a comfortable 10-12 WPM, then when you answer kicks it up to warp speed and won't acknowlege or comply with a request to QRS.

3) #Someone who answers a 5 W/M CQ at 20 W/M then complains about the slow speed LID.


73 DE KAØGKT/7

--Steve

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (Guest @ May 12 2006,07:22)]qualifying you for an extra, it had to happen.

Children sending 10 wpm in the EXTRA CLASS CW sub bands.

I hate that ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Wonder if you'll "hate that" when there's NO CW ops to have a QSO with.

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (KC0OXE @ Aug. 11 2006,09:43)]I'm a Tech class who is still learning code, and I wanted to share this with the other members of this thread because I think is has some relevance.

I was at a friends house the other night and he was on 40m. My friend can listen at 30-35 wpm, so when he made contact with someone in Oregon it was at that speed. They were having a nice chat when my friend mentioned that I was in the shack with him and was learning code. The operator in Oregon immediately slowed down to about 10 wpm and I was actually able to pick out some of the letters that I knew.

Now he didn't have to do that, but the fact that he did is something that I consider a CLASS act. I was then, and still am, greatly impressed. It inspired me to study even harder over the past few days so that I might someday be able to join the conversation.

/*rant on*/
What I am NOT impressed by is the number of members of this forum who seem to think that they are someone truly special because they had to walk 100 miles into a blizzard, across uncharted territory without compass, map or sextant, up hill, into the wind, bare foot, on a day that they played hookey from school, fighting off wolves and CBs in eighteen wheelers, to face the world's most unfriendly FCC engineer --- a man so mean that when they broke their only pencil, he refused to lend them another, and so they ended up writing the exam (and diagramming the dreaded Colpitts circuit) in blood that they got out of puncturing their finger. Not to mention the 100 wpm code test in the echo room that they had to pass after building their own radio out of a pile of spare parts that they had carried into the exam site (uphill, into the wind and snow, etc. etc.) This experience obviously makes them so special that they can now lord it over the rest of the HAM population who took a mere multiple-choice test and had to pass a 5 wpm code test for their license.

There are two clubs within driving distance of my home to which I belong. One believes in helping new hams: it has a very active kids group and takes great pride in nuturing them into code and the higher class licenses. Meetings typically have 25-30 people. The other is composed of members about my age (60) who are nice enough to talk to but take no interest in helping the less experienced: at the last meeting, when I asked for someone to help elmer me in learning to send code, the silence from the eight other attendees was deafening. Finally someone muttered that they didn't do code much -- this from a group that had six extras in the audience. Guess which club is going to prosper and grow?

So the way I see it when someone calls on a band where the culture is of code over 20 wpm, there are two alternatives: first, don't answer, and maybe he'll go away. Second, slow down and answer and encourage someone not as skilled to develop. Of course, the danger with answering is that you might encourage him to continue to use that frequency the next time.

But in either case, he has just as much right to be on the band as you, so there's no reason, other than just sheer curmudgeonry, to complain about it. After all, he paid his $14 for his license just as you did.

And, as a last thought, I don't believe that I have ever seen a group as unfriendly towards newcomers as the HAM community. Not in the fraternities of shooting, archery, orienteering, or even in the military with all its cliques, where I was everything from a "leg" to an Special Forces "god" and so saw all aspects of it, were newcomers so scorned as not being good enough because their rite of passage was not as "rigorous" as the older members. While the overall number of HAMs may be remaining steady, the overall growth is not keeping up with the population, and certainly not increasing at the rates it was in the 50s and 60s. I wonder why --- could it possibly be the way new members are received and encouraged?
/*rant off*/

I now invite scathing comments from those who will complain of my temerity for speaking up as a "No Code Tech." http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

JLK
KC0OXE
I felt EXACTLY the way you do as a new Amateur. Then I grew up.

Personally, I'd slow down to 1WPM if you needed it and we'd both still enjoy the QSO, but remember that Amateur Radio is not all about you. It is about all of us. Some people will help you and some won't. Don't get bunched up over those that won't. Hope to meet you on the air soon, amigo. Good luck!

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (M3KCK @ Aug. 13 2006,19:49)]It is always interesting reading this stuff,

With Big debates on Qrz.com regarding Morse code and the Code/No code debate ect then I would have thought that Amateurs would be Pleased to have a Fellow Amateur learn Morse Code and even Happier to have them Use Cw at any speed http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

As it is here and like it will be in the USA, Amateurs in the U.K do not have to pass a Code test to use HF so Anyone who takes it upon themselves to learn Morse code and use Cw should in my opinion be praised for doing so.

And not to forget that we here can operate Cw in Any of the Cw portions of the bands at Any speed!!
So does this mean that you would not want a Cw Qso with us mere Brits?
I am sure that you understand what I am saying,
Good day to You,
es 73
Regards,
Andrew M3KCK
And how much code do you do? LOL!

[ab8ro]

ok

[K3UD]

Considering the bandwidth that the code via CW takes up, I just do not see any problems with someone having a QSO at 40WPM 500Hz or less away from someone having a QSO at 5 or 10 WPM. If the filtering is good and there is no receiver overloading one will usually never know the other is there.

With more and more hams upgrading to General and Extra there will most likely be more slow code on the bands. Maybe someone can petition the FCC to allocate 7.000 - 7.030 to those ops who can QSO at high speeds... in effect we would have a speed limit that starts at maybe 20-25 WPM. We can have another segment for 10-19 WPM and still another for 1-9 WPM.

Perhaps we can also do the same thing in the phone bands but based on power output. 1,000 - 1,500 watts / 600 - 999 watts / 200 - 600 watts / etc. until we get down the the milliwatt category.

Hams that earn a General or Extra have the right to use all of privileges they received with their license. More and more of them will be using "slow code". If you do not want to slow down when you get a 5 or 10 WPM answer to your CQ, then don't respond to it. We do not need the CW areas turning into what has happened on 75 meter phone or what often happens on 2 meter repeaters.

73
George
K3UD

[KC9GUZ]

Quote[/b] (Guest @ May 12 2006,08:22)]qualifying you for an extra, it had to happen.

Children sending 10 wpm in the EXTRA CLASS CW sub bands.

I hate that ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
Whats wrong with slow code? I guess you will be one of them guys that wont work a guy thats new to code in the novice portion of 40 or 80 meters or QRS when politely asked to..
Oh well.

No wonder some people are turned off to ham radio. its because of the negativeness some have..
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[KC9GUZ]

Quote[/b] (KC0OXE @ Aug. 11 2006,09:43)]I'm a Tech class who is still learning code, and I wanted to share this with the other members of this thread because I think is has some relevance.

I was at a friends house the other night and he was on 40m. My friend can listen at 30-35 wpm, so when he made contact with someone in Oregon it was at that speed. They were having a nice chat when my friend mentioned that I was in the shack with him and was learning code. The operator in Oregon immediately slowed down to about 10 wpm and I was actually able to pick out some of the letters that I knew.

Now he didn't have to do that, but the fact that he did is something that I consider a CLASS act. I was then, and still am, greatly impressed. It inspired me to study even harder over the past few days so that I might someday be able to join the conversation.

/*rant on*/
What I am NOT impressed by is the number of members of this forum who seem to think that they are someone truly special because they had to walk 100 miles into a blizzard, across uncharted territory without compass, map or sextant, up hill, into the wind, bare foot, on a day that they played hookey from school, fighting off wolves and CBs in eighteen wheelers, to face the world's most unfriendly FCC engineer --- a man so mean that when they broke their only pencil, he refused to lend them another, and so they ended up writing the exam (and diagramming the dreaded Colpitts circuit) in blood that they got out of puncturing their finger. Not to mention the 100 wpm code test in the echo room that they had to pass after building their own radio out of a pile of spare parts that they had carried into the exam site (uphill, into the wind and snow, etc. etc.) This experience obviously makes them so special that they can now lord it over the rest of the HAM population who took a mere multiple-choice test and had to pass a 5 wpm code test for their license.

There are two clubs within driving distance of my home to which I belong. One believes in helping new hams: it has a very active kids group and takes great pride in nuturing them into code and the higher class licenses. Meetings typically have 25-30 people. The other is composed of members about my age (60) who are nice enough to talk to but take no interest in helping the less experienced: at the last meeting, when I asked for someone to help elmer me in learning to send code, the silence from the eight other attendees was deafening. Finally someone muttered that they didn't do code much -- this from a group that had six extras in the audience. Guess which club is going to prosper and grow?

So the way I see it when someone calls on a band where the culture is of code over 20 wpm, there are two alternatives: first, don't answer, and maybe he'll go away. Second, slow down and answer and encourage someone not as skilled to develop. Of course, the danger with answering is that you might encourage him to continue to use that frequency the next time.

But in either case, he has just as much right to be on the band as you, so there's no reason, other than just sheer curmudgeonry, to complain about it. After all, he paid his $14 for his license just as you did.

And, as a last thought, I don't believe that I have ever seen a group as unfriendly towards newcomers as the HAM community. Not in the fraternities of shooting, archery, orienteering, or even in the military with all its cliques, where I was everything from a "leg" to an Special Forces "god" and so saw all aspects of it, were newcomers so scorned as not being good enough because their rite of passage was not as "rigorous" as the older members. While the overall number of HAMs may be remaining steady, the overall growth is not keeping up with the population, and certainly not increasing at the rates it was in the 50s and 60s. I wonder why --- could it possibly be the way new members are received and encouraged?
/*rant off*/

I now invite scathing comments from those who will complain of my temerity for speaking up as a "No Code Tech." http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

JLK
KC0OXE
Great post!!!
I recently asked a few locals to have a 5 WPM QSO with a few of them on 40 or 80 in the novice portions. Most of them said they didnt use code anymore. ARGH! What gets me is some guys are 20 WPM tested Extras and 13 WPM Advances and most of them cant or wont use CW!!!!!!

I myself have recently become intrigued with CW, but i cant push myself to actually get "on the air" and use it. I dont know why, but i feel that i dont know it well enough to actually use it on the air. Heck, i passed the CW test well enough though!!

[w5alt]

Quote[/b] (KC9GUZ @ Aug. 16 2006,16:52)]I recently asked a few locals to have a 5 WPM QSO with a few of them on 40 or 80 in the novice portions. Most of them said they didnt use code anymore. ARGH! What gets me is some guys are 20 WPM tested Extras and 13 WPM Advances and most of them cant or wont use CW!!!!!!
Now that just depends on what crowd you hang with. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Quote[/b] ]I myself have recently become intrigued with CW, but i cant push myself to actually get "on the air" and use it. I dont know why, but i feel that i dont know it well enough to actually use it on the air. Heck, i passed the CW test well enough though!!
Then just get on the air and stop worying about whether you are good enough. None of us were good enough the first time we used CW, but the only cure for that is practice and the best place is on the bands.

As far as where, it really doesn't bother me in the least whether people use high or low speed CW on any partcular frequency, as long as they are operating legally, not intentionally causing QRM, etc. I don't consider it bad or inconsiderate t all. However, the best place for slower speed CW has always been in the General nad Novice band segments, not the Extra segment. Heck, unless I'm looking for DX, I usually stay just above the Extra bands so I can potentially work some Generals and often scan through the Novice bands, too.

If you want slower speed CW practice, the best place to look for substantial activity is around the SKCC and FISTS frequencies, not the Extra sub-bands.

[M3KCK]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Aug. 16 2006,21:10)]Quote[/b] (M3KCK @ Aug. 13 2006,19:49)]It is always interesting reading this stuff,

With Big debates on Qrz.com regarding Morse code and the Code/No code debate ect then I would have thought that Amateurs would be Pleased to have a Fellow Amateur learn Morse Code and even Happier to have them Use Cw at any speed http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

As it is here and like it will be in the USA, Amateurs in the U.K do not have to pass a Code test to use HF so Anyone who takes it upon themselves to learn Morse code and use Cw should in my opinion be praised for doing so.

And not to forget that we here can operate Cw in Any of the Cw portions of the bands at Any speed!!
So does this mean that you would not want a Cw Qso with us mere Brits?
I am sure that you understand what I am saying,
Good day to You,
es 73
Regards,
Andrew # M3KCK
And how much code do you do? #LOL!
You’re Exactly the type of Om/Of that KC0OXE spoke of http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

When I do work CW Om I will be Sure to work you even if that does mean I have to Qrs for you!!
Have a nice day,
es 73
Regards,
Andrew M3KCK http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (M3KCK @ Aug. 16 2006,14:08)]Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Aug. 16 2006,21:10)]Quote[/b] (M3KCK @ Aug. 13 2006,19:49)]It is always interesting reading this stuff,

With Big debates on Qrz.com regarding Morse code and the Code/No code debate ect then I would have thought that Amateurs would be Pleased to have a Fellow Amateur learn Morse Code and even Happier to have them Use Cw at any speed http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

As it is here and like it will be in the USA, Amateurs in the U.K do not have to pass a Code test to use HF so Anyone who takes it upon themselves to learn Morse code and use Cw should in my opinion be praised for doing so.

And not to forget that we here can operate Cw in Any of the Cw portions of the bands at Any speed!!
So does this mean that you would not want a Cw Qso with us mere Brits?
I am sure that you understand what I am saying,
Good day to You,
es 73
Regards,
Andrew M3KCK
And how much code do you do? LOL!
You’re Exactly the type of Om/Of that KC0OXE spoke of http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

When I do work CW Om I will be Sure to work you even if that does mean I have to Qrs for you!!
Have a nice day,
es 73
Regards,
Andrew M3KCK http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Guess that answer was "none". I thought so. So you really aren't qualified to comment on this subject, are you? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[W4HAY]

Some of those '10WPM children' happen to be pretty good DX. They have to go through the 'newbie' stage too!

[K4KWH]

One of the best QSO's I ever had on CW was with a
10 y/o General! #I had no idea until he sent "age hr is........... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #Then we went over to phone and talked there as will. #I just got the impression this kid would be going places in his life as he struck me as a VERY intelligent (and mature) young man for his age. I really enjoyed the QSO. I'll tell you one thing: if some of the assinine, babyish, immature CRAP some "extra" class ops carry on on 75 is an indication, I'll QSO with kids ANY day of the week rather than to put up with the childish mess of *some* adult (?) hams I've heard. With the kids I have talked to, I have NEVER #run into the likes of that and they were FAR more pleasant to talk with than these "men". :0 They need a baby rattle rather than a microphone! #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[KC9GUZ]

Quote[/b] (KC0OXE @ Aug. 11 2006,09:43)]I was at a friends house the other night and he was on 40m. My friend can listen at 30-35 wpm, so when he made contact with someone in Oregon it was at that speed. They were having a nice chat when my friend mentioned that I was in the shack with him and was learning code. The operator in Oregon immediately slowed down to about 10 wpm and I was actually able to pick out some of the letters that I knew.

Now he didn't have to do that, but the fact that he did is something that I consider a CLASS act. I was then, and still am, greatly impressed. It inspired me to study even harder over the past few days so that I might someday be able to join the conversation.
Now that move was a CLASS act big time in my book!! Even if you were audience so to speak what he did was great! We need more ops, in the hobby like this guy. BTW did you copy his call?

Good luck with the code BTW, after a while it will come easy and you will be able to take the CW test and not have issues...

[KC9GUZ]

Quote[/b] (KC0OXE @ Aug. 11 2006,10:35)][QUOTE]Amateur Radio ... is ... what YOU make of it. #If they want to ignore people, hey ... no loss to me ... it is THEIR loss, but they will never see it. [UNQUOTE}

I know.

I was being unfair in my post to most of the forum, who is friendly and does help, but I just couldn't resist poking a pin at the self-inflated balloon of importance held by some of the more ill-mannered and small-minded members.

What a shame to take such an attitude with all the skills and knowledge they could offer to newcomers. And they would certainly gain more respect as venerated OM than they do now as curmurdgeonly OF.

JLK
KC0OXE
Fortunaltely here were I live that type of arrogance is not that bad. Pretty much everyone is welcomed.
But i agree there is a heir of defensive arrogance in the hobby and it is aimed at mostly the newcomers that are NCTs. I think it because a lot of the older guys are jealous that they had to take the test like they did. We new comers just take the test at some hamfest or in some library in front of a bunch of friendly VEs, and we get to sit in comfy stuffed chairs(some of the VE testing session ive been to were in very comfotable settings!) and use nice flat tables to take our tests on. Not to mention the code test is now a mere 5 wpm. I dont know, but the hobby is not like it was and if it is to stay with us there needs to be a attitude adjustment made somewere sometime. I guess the older guys were treated like crap way back shen so they think that the new guys now need to same type of introduction they did.

[W0LC]

Honestly, though, for me, since I have used CW for many years, my speed is easily in the 25WPM and higher range. To listen to very slow speed such as 5 WPM really throws me off. I actually have a harder time with slower speed then with faster.

The more you use it, the faster you will be able to copy it. I am proof of that as I started out with 5 WPM many years ago and it has only gotten better. I love to work guys in the "novice" bands.

[ky5u]

Had a good QSO las night at about 10 WPM with a guy in Georgia and when I finished, a guy from Texas called me at 25WPM. We yacked for about 30 minutes before I had to QRT. Both QSOs were alot of fun.

[W4HAY]

We QSO anywhere at or below 25 WPM -- where ever the other operator feels comfortable.

It's like a show-jumping course -- rider and horse are judged on their flexibility ('scope' the equestrians call it) in taking jumps of various heights and distances. Work 'em at different speeds and you'll be comfortable at those different speeds. Could come in handy when handling emergency traffic, ya know!

[k0cmh]

Its the same in any groups like Ham radio. There are a small group that apparently has to make themselves feel important by having their special "talent". They bolster up their self esteem by putting down others for not being as good as they are at that talent. In this particular case, the forget (conveniently) that they too started out in life at zeor words per minute.

So, I just srugg them off as folks with inferiority complexes that need to be feed.

I will still try to reply to someone QSOing above my speed, provided I can get their call sign right. If they don't want to talk to me, then off I go somewhere else. There are way to many nice Hams to bother with the "over sized heads". I get plenty of CW ops to QRS to my speed and have great QSO, and even exchange QSL cards.

And I return the favor. I will slow down for those that can't match my "blazing" 12 to 15 WPM. I often go to the old novice bands just to help those learning.

Fortunately there are way more like me than like those. I don't waste my time on "those".

[KC9JSQ]

I'm planning on learning code but with "adults" like that individual, it makes me want to wait until I can do at least 25wpm before using my upcoming privilages on those bands. However, being 29 years of age, I've learned that no matter where you are you'll run into someone who has to be better than you are for sure. I agree with a few of you, theres alot of space out there where you can find plenty of people to talk to, even if they are slower than you. I've listened to various QSO's on a receiver and could tell some were alot faster than others. I say use what your comfortable with, despite others.

[k0cmh]

JSQ: Don't let this thread slow you down what-so-ever on learning and USING cw. Almost every night I hear a number of CW QSOs going on at lower than 10 wpm. This is in the general privliges bands: 40 meters, 20 meters, 30 meters, 15 meters and 10 meters. I hear many CQ calls at 10 wpm and lower. Don't let the "big heads" fool you. There is a LOT of CW going on, on all the band, below 25 wmp, below 15 wpm and below 10 wpm. To paraphrase a famous movie sound bite: "ifyou call, they will come".

[k0cmh]

I will also add this:

My first license, in 2004, was the Tech with the element 1 (5 wpm CW). I was given an old HW-101 which only had the CW function working. That was the only radio I had. I worked what is called the "novice" bands, CW for months. At first I was doing about 7 wmp. I worked up to a decent 10 wpm. I am now stuck at about 15 wpm (mostly due to not practicing enough). But, if you would see my log book from those first six months of so, you will see that there is a ton of slower CW going on. And it wasn't that much different when I got the general upgrade. There is still a lot of slower CW on the general bands. I will be glad, as would be the majority of CW operators here, to QSO with you when you get the ticket.