HaM Radio always has been an OLE Furt

[k4lem]

Here is a photo of the typical turn out at a ham club activity, Green Mt. Net 1964.

Notice younger folks conspicuous by their ABSENCE.


http://hamelectronics.com/gmn/pages/old/w1ucl.html

[KE5FRF]

I imagine back in those days ESPECIALLY that this was partially due to the expense of owning radio equipment vs. today where mass produced japanese rice box radios are much cheaper in relative terms.

Unfortunately, today's lack of numbers in the ham community is more related to the waning interest, not so much economic concerns.

[KA4DPO]

People just looked older then. Those guys were probably not much older than 30 but the clothes and the hair and horned rimmed glasses made them look much older. Also, there was no sunscreen so they had more wrinkles.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ad4mg]

This is just what "OLE Furts" look like. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif # #(see topic title)

[KF0RT]

It's always been an "OLE Furt" game. Why, you young whippersnappers who think it requires young blood to keep it going just haven't been around long enough.

It was an "OLE Furt" thing when I was a kid and it's an "OLE Furt" thing now. Only difference is which direction I'm pointed. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73, Rob

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ May 12 2006,09:14)]Unfortunately, today's lack of numbers in the ham community is more related to the waning interest, not so much economic concerns.
What lack of numbers? ? ?

Seriously, telling this over and over and over ain't gonna make it true!! There's been a small decline -- about 3.5% in the last 5-6 years, probably due to the oversell of the hobby (thanks, ARRL!) years ago.

There IS NO "lack of numbers!"

73, Rob

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ May 12 2006,14:57)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ May 12 2006,09:14)]Unfortunately, today's lack of numbers in the ham community is more related to the waning interest, not so much economic concerns.
What lack of numbers? ? ?

Seriously, telling this over and over and over ain't gonna make it true!! #There's been a small decline -- about 3.5% in the last 5-6 years, probably due to the oversell of the hobby (thanks, ARRL!) years ago.

There IS NO "lack of numbers!"


73, Rob
Rob,

# I don't disagree with you. Heck, the 500,000 or so hams in America TODAY is a far greater number than the 100,000 or so from before WWII...but you gotta remember, a vast majority of these licensees are technicians who DON'T EVEN OPERATE anymore or NEVER BOUGHT RIGS, and many are letting their licenses suspend without renewal.

But, Rob...I only got licensed a short 9 or so months ago, but I have friends and family who were hams at one time or another who speak of crowded repeaters and HF bands in the 70s and even into the 80s. On the air operating is what I gauge things by, not stats. Everyone I know says that a sharp decline in hamfest attendances and daily activity has occured since the mid nineties, when cellphone and internet started proliferating. With SKs passing on, there may indeed be a relatively large number of licenses out there, but scant few people who still have an antenna up in the air, and indeed many cheap or free rohn tower segments are to be had by volunteering to go help take down an OFs tower.

I dunno...I love and enjoy this hobby that I have wanted to be a part of all me adult life, but from the perspective of someone who is NEW, and has seen a LITTLE of the past from a sideline perspective, the on air operating has been a little dissapointing for me.

BTW, my numbers are by no means statistical, just rough numbers based on things I have seen in the past.

[W4HAY]

Another reason the bands don't seem as active: sunspots! A few years back when the SFI was peaking 300+, HF was usually pandemonium.

[K0RGR]

I was doing a big response when I pushed the wrong button. If they both get posted, my apologies.

In 1964 there were a lot more young people in ham radio than today, but most of them weren't in radio clubs. There were very few in the clubs I joined, but I knew lots of kids with tickets.

My dad belonged to an organization called 'Society of Amateur Radio Operators' whose members were of such a vintage that it was also called 'Society of Ancient Radio Operators'. These guys had all the original 2-letter calls.

We didn't buy much commercial gear in those days. Most people had commercial receivers, but most transmitters and other items around the shack were homebuilt from scratch or built from kits.

When I was a little kid, my dad put me to work out in the hamshack tearing apart old radios and TV sets, and sorting out the parts into containers. He had a part time job in a TV repair shop, so he got a lot of old sets that owners didn't want to pay to repair.I could read resistor color codes when I was very young. A lot of those parts got used over the years, in all sorts of radio gear.

Dad was also active in the MARS program, which at that time would make surplus radio gear available to active members who earned 'points' by their on-the-air participation. Dad was net control of several nets each week, and racked up tons of points. At one point, we also lived 2 blocks from the Air Force base where the MARS warehouse was, and a couple times a year, Dad and a buddy would take a pickup over and redeem their points. This was much, much better than Christmas! Neat new radio toys would appear all the time, FREE!

If you ever see some crates marked "Air Force Standard Repair Kit #1", and have a chance to buy it, do. That kit contains everyting you would ever need, tools, hardware and materials, to repair any kind of aircraft or equipment.

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ May 12 2006,14:21)]Rob,

I don't disagree with you. Heck, the 500,000 or so hams in America TODAY is a far greater number than the 100,000 or so from before WWII...but you gotta remember, a vast majority of these licensees are technicians who DON'T EVEN OPERATE anymore or NEVER BOUGHT RIGS, and many are letting their licenses suspend without renewal.

But, Rob...I only got licensed a short 9 or so months ago, but I have friends and family who were hams at one time or another who speak of crowded repeaters and HF bands in the 70s and even into the 80s. On the air operating is what I gauge things by, not stats. Everyone I know says that a sharp decline in hamfest attendances and daily activity has occured since the mid nineties, when cellphone and internet started proliferating. With SKs passing on, there may indeed be a relatively large number of licenses out there, but scant few people who still have an antenna up in the air, and indeed many cheap or free rohn tower segments are to be had by volunteering to go help take down an OFs tower.

I dunno...I love and enjoy this hobby that I have wanted to be a part of all me adult life, but from the perspective of someone who is NEW, and has seen a LITTLE of the past from a sideline perspective, the on air operating has been a little dissapointing for me.

BTW, my numbers are by no means statistical, just rough numbers based on things I have seen in the past.
Guess it just tweaks me a bit when folks boil it down to numbers and see growth as a solution, Heath. But, you're right in a lot of respects...

Times change, and there are reasons for what you're seeing. I can't account for the lack of community that once existed among the ranks. Sure, it's still there to some extent, but it isn't like it once was. I think you've accurately assessed a big part of the issue. The technology shift (cellphones and Internet) account for a lot of this.

I got back into the game about two years ago, after being away for almost 20 years. Just decided one day that it might be fun again and went down to the local HRO store and spent more than I could afford. I was absolutely stunned by the lack of activity in the 2 meter repeater bands. All the old repeaters were still there; been maintained and upgraded even. Just nobody using them. Come to think of it, the big "draw" to repeaters back in the 70's and early 80's was the autopatch. People bought in for mobile phone access and some of them (but not many) hung around for the camaraderie. It was always the "core 10%" that made it fun. I find that to be true in just about all aspects of life. The cellphone eliminated the hangers-on, and that's okay by me.

The numbers game isn't flying here. We have over twice the number of licensed hams today as we had 30 years ago, yet things are worse? To me, this is just the failed experiment of making it easy to join the ranks. The NCT ticket came about in 1991, and there was a big increase in licenses shortly afterwards. Ten years later, we see a sharp decrease in licenses. No magic here! And nobody should take it too seriously -- it's just human nature.

You picked an interesting time to hop on the train, Heath. Interesting because it's the absolute bottom of the sunspot cycle. So, you're not getting the real experience of HF. Hang in there, it WILL change, and by the time it does, you'll be an expert at this.

As much as I don't like some of the things that have happened to ham radio in the last couple decades, there are a few things that really encourage me. Kids? I'm back on the air because my nephew is interested, licensed, and even pushing the limits of my knowledge at times. He's 15 - Mike, KCØPQJ. Has the same enthusiasm I had at that age. There's a young lady in Boulder I hear in contests. I think she's 17 (KSØP?). Extra class, kicks ass and takes names. In the 70's, she would have been part of the refreshment committee. This is all good.

And, there are all sorts of techie stuff going on. People building receivers, writing software and running small businesses.

In "America" we have grown accustomed to growth being a positive thing. It rarely is, you know...

73, Rob

[wa9cwx]

You are all right about numbers, LOTS of new, so called "hams" came aboard after the code requirement was dropped. And the biggest problem was the redisgned testing, with answers that were published, and now the silly CW tests for HF.... All under the bridge, beaten to death subjcets, but still valid.

The closeness and 'bonding' that hams had was REAL.
It was the result of facing a daunting series of challenges, namely the tests.

That 'challenge' is certainly different today.

Anyway, I like 'ole furts. #They have perspective, experience, sometimes wisdom, and can bring genuine humor to a situation that escapes a young persons perception.

Three gas passes for 'ole furts !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[k4kyv]

I remember in the late 50's and early 60's there were a lot of younger hams. I started in 1959 at age 17, and the majority of novices were closer to my age than to retirement age. Prior to WW2, almost all amateurs were young men.

The Green Mountain Net is not a typical representation of the amateur population at that time. It has long been recognised as a group of old-timers.

BTW, I make a distiction between OT's and OF's. OT's are hams who started out at a young age, with many years of tenure as a licensed amateur under their belts. OF's are retirement-age hams who became licensed (mostly as converts from CB) only in recent years, and who spend most of their time on the air talking about their ailments and griping and moaning what all is wrong with ham radio.

[G0GQK]

Have you got a speech impediment ? #Can't you say old fart ?

Mel G0GQK

[ae6yd]

Hi there. Resident young ham here, licensed since 9, 19 now, you should know the schpiel by now. I can tell you that I am, personally, the youngest member of the Riverside County Amateur Radio Association. I took that title away from a 35-year-old.

However, I'm trying to do my part and start a ham club up at my university. Hopefully we'll be on the air by the end of this academic year, but if not, then by the end of the calendar year for sure. If you hear a young ham out there, give 'em a call back! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[WA2ZDY]

Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ May 14 2006,14:11)]You are all right about numbers, LOTS of new, so called "hams" came aboard after the code requirement was dropped.
You're discussing licensees, not hams. There's a big difference. Even many of those are ARE on the air, the cellphone hams, aren't hams. Sure they hold licenses but that's what makes them licensees. And they operate but are they operating as hams? Or as communicators? (The original proposed name for what continues to be the no-code Tech.)

Yeah, at 44 I'm in the lower quarter of the age scale at the club I belong to also. But back in 1975 when I was a Novice, most of my contacts were with other teenagers. And remember, we were all on CW - teenagers who were able to find time between cars, girls and school to learn the code.

The increase in sunspot numbers will bring with it things you cannot image Heath. But I suspect the no-code HF access may be in place by then and the bedlam will be enjoyed by few. If the HF newcomers have time to gain experience before Old Sol gets wild it will be better but still, for a few years I think the numbers will jump substantially before the licensees realise HF isn't what they wanted either.

The only place we'll see a real and continuing increase in HF activity will be with the RV and sailboat communicators using winlink for their email. And the sunspot cycle increasing will just make that many more of those folks wanting increased access to free email. But again, they won't be hams either, just freeloading licensees taking advantage of our frequencies to enjoy their email for free.

[WA9UAA]

Hi All,
Interesting discusion, I was first licensed in1964. One thing about the lower part of the sun spot cycle is that it enhances the lower frequencies. About 18 months ago I got into QRP CW, taught myself to use my paddles left handed and had a great time. Last summer, after vacation, I got away from operating and am now just getting back in to CW again. Summer time on HF means QRN but I'll try to pick some good days and go portable with my IC 703. In the fall 160 Meters will be getting good again. As far as licensing goes, in my experience, a person has to like working with technology. Just being a communicator works if you've got 'the gift of gab' ; though, you'll still have work with the theory. Antennas are a bit harder to work with at lower frequencies just because of their length. A clone of the 'Cobra Ultra Lite' and 450 ohm ladder line got me on 160 Meters. Part of the the thing thats kept me interested is the challenges of changing conditions. Yes, it takes some bucks to do that; but, much can be done with home built antennas along with being willing to accept the challenge of not having the top O' the line rig. I did invest in an efficient tuner though and my rig is good mid range example. I have worked 6 land with an MFJ Cub at 2 watts on 40M in the winter time for instance too. Well, I've rambled on enough. I left out some info; so, if your reading this you can have the challenge of finding the solution to your questions. Besides, what works for me might not be your cup of tea.
73,
Rob WA9UAA

[wv6z]

Quote[/b] (G0GQK @ May 13 2006,14:18)]Have you got a speech impediment ? #Can't you say old fart ?

Mel G0GQK
I think that’s a ‘typing impediment’…….. the guys didn’t all look that old to me Gary, I think the high water pants, ugly shoes, hideous spectacles, funky shirts, pocket protectors and haircuts that made them all look like typical ham radio geek nerds that scares away the young people…….

[WA7KKP]

AS the harmonic of a 50's/60's ham (W7YZQ), I saw a few (not many) kids interested in ham radio, and active participants. One must keep in mind that ham gear was far more expensive (in real dollars) and many couldn't afford a nice shiny new whatever -- that's why Heathkit was popular, and WWII surplus was the only alternative.

I remember as a wee tyke that AM was the king, and SSB was the intruder. Most of the hams were not elitist, and those who tried to create their own little cliques soon became ostracized for doing it. There wasn't much besides CW and phone operation, but RTTY (my dad was active in that). Those who were on 6 meters and above were considered mavericks -- hardly anyone to talk to back before the FM craze/repeaters in the 70's.

Now there's all kind of digital modes, SSTV, FSTV, FM repeaters, EME, ad nauseum; this has helped to fragment the ham population. So what's left is what you see -- older hams just having a leisurely QSO on the HF band of their choice.

Gary WA7KKP

[kl7aj]

"The Old Man" Hiram P. Maxim was old in 1915. I guess youth IS wasted on the young. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

eric