Use of SK

[k0cmh]

I hear a number of different versions of using sk at the end of CW exchanges.

I have always felt that it means: I am finished with this exchange and do not expect or aks you to respond to my last transmission".

I put the SK at the end of the final transmission, as in this example. After we have agreeded to end the QSO, I will send something like: "TU 73 wx0xx de k0cmh sk e e"

Usually I just get the "e e" in return, but sometimes a little bit more, and then the "e e". I will then send one more "e e" (yes, technically that is an unidentified transmission, but the whole world seems to do it).

However, often I will hear the other station sign off: "gud qso sk tnx 73 73 k0cmh de wx0xx".

Now this doesn't matter to me at all. I perfectly understand the other station, and things like this don't bother me. But I am curious about others' thoughts on the subject.

[W1SK]

I send SK twice http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif


-Joe

[al2i]

It really is OK if everyone is not exactly the same. I usually send ar before my sk on my final, and then perhaps tu or 73 and then dit dit one last time after he signs as well. Whatever seems most appropriate or makes you happy should work great!

Robots do it the same each time.

[K7KBN]

This is really a question for KG4KWW: What IS a good use for a Silent Key?? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[AK7V]

I mix it up. #

Of late, I'll put it after the farewells but before the final ID. #Like "TNX ES CUL KIM 73 sk P5KJI DE AK7V dit dit"

[kl7aj]

Quote[/b] (k7kbn @ May 11 2006,07:44)]This is really a question for KG4KWW: What IS a good use for a Silent Key?? # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
It's really hard to send SK if you ARE one. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K9STH]

Actually sending "e e" was the outgrowth of a very bad practice (and blatantly illegal) that new Novice Class operators started in the late 1950s. Someone would send the "shave and a hair cut" and wait for someone else to send the "two bits" instead of sending a real CQ. When the "two bits" was received then the station would send his/her call.

These same stations would after they were finished send the sequence again.

After a number of years, as newer amateurs came on board, the "shave and a hair cut" was gradually eliminated from the end sequence leaving the "two bits". Eventually, many amateurs began to think that adding the "dit dit" was "proper" operating procedure which it definitely is NOT! But, since so many were doing this the practice of sending the "two bits" is used by many.

I have even heard people on repeaters pushing their microphone PTT buttons twice to send the "two bits" when finished with a contact.

So many people send the "two bits" when finished with a CW contact these days that I just have come to accept it and to go on to the next contact. However, I do NOT do this myself and I do encourage others NOT to send the "two bits". But, life is too short to get emotionally involved in something as minor as sending "two bits" even if most of those who are sending it don't have a clue as to the origin of the practice.

Glen, K9STH

[w8cbc]

I'll return the dit-dit if I hear it (or its precursor) from the other end. Otherwise I just end with SK. I probably don't use SK properly - I took it to mean, "I'm done, listening out." What's the right one for that?

[K0RGR]

I always end with SK - it derives from the old telegrapher's '30' (dididitdahdit Dahhhhhhhh in American Morse) - if you have a bug or a straight key you can still send an old 30 with the elongated ending dash. It indicates the end of a wire story. Once in a while, you'll see '30' at the end of a news story. -THE END- But, the Novice in me usually comes out and does a dit dit for some strange reason. I haven't heard the first part of that exchange for many years (dit dididit dit).

[KD6NIG]

I've always wondered why SK was used, considering its other connotation in the Ham ranks. I've always heard the dit dit when watching others use code too, I thought it was proper practice.

[W0LPQ]

This was also done in the aviation world prior to the 50's, keying the mic twice when clearing an enroute frequency for another. Still done to some extent today.

Bill, W0LPQ

[AG3Y]

I've often heard it on the band when conditions were marginal or changing and have considered it a type of shorthand for "I heard everything you sent, and just wanted to let you know that." sort of thing.

I also don't get too bent out of shape about it.

Interestingly, I got my novice license about the time that VFOs were allowed to be used by novices, and the "shave and a haircut" thing was already waining in popularity.

73, Jim (dit dit ) http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[ae4fa]

I don't use SK at all, prefering to end a QSO with:

"AR xx#xxx de AE4FA TU"

And, yes, I do usually add the dit-dit. I heard a lot of the shave-and-a-haircut routine when I was a Novice in the early 60s - and didn't like it.

However, I now view the dit-dit (rightly or wrongly) as a final on-air courtesy. Sue me.

Interestingly, I've noticed a lot of CW ops lately who are getting vanity calls that end with 'ESE' - some call themselves barbershoppers. Pretty distinctive in a contest.

[W5HTW]

Actually SK as two separate letters, means Silent Key, and SK as a single character, means "last transmission." Different animals.

I can recall, as Glen says, using the shave and a haircut thingie when I was a Novice, though not so often. It had a tendency to go on to three or four such exchanges, which I found silly. I think I outgrew it?? But even today I may occasionally use that final "dit dit." Not often, but now and then, when a QSO has been particularly friendly.

But "last transmission" means "last transmission." Over the past three decades ham radio has lost a lot of its previously held strict "circuit discipline" and I have no problem with that. We don't have to be military operators anymore.

Now we hear (and actually have for a long time) endings like: W3xxx de W4xxx AR SK.

AR meant "nothing follows." It was used to indicate "This was the end of my traffic and I do not expect a response."

Even W1AW still uses AR in this fashion at the end of their bulletins. It is not followed by a "K" or "SK" or "CL" (closing station) or anything else. Just "AR."

"SK" may have come, as someone noted, from telegraphers code, but was rarely, if ever, used in military comm. I never heard it used, but won't say it wasn't.

"K" is simply "your turn, go ahead, do it to it." The CW equivalent of "over" (though voice "over" is being replaced by "QSL??" )

Consequently "K" and "AR" technically do not mix. "K" means go ahead and "AR" means I do not expect a response.

"KN" means "I am not listening for, and will not respond to, anyone but the intended station." It is not a former military signal (neither is "CL" And by the way, "CL" is sent as two individual letters, while most prosigns are sent as single characters.) I hear people call CQ and end their transmission with "KN." I even hear them end it with AR KN!

In one way CW broadcasts in government communications we ended our messages with AR. That is also true of one way broadcasts in amateur use, such as code practice sessions, bulletins, etc., (as in W1AW above) whatever one way broadcasts are permitted. When ending, simply send AR and nothing else. For example, ending a code practice session, I would send "BT DE W5HTW AR" The BT (one character, though many computer programs can't do that so it is also changing to two characters) means end of text, then my call sign, and "AR."

Our relaxed procedures today are not a problem for most of us. We can figure out what is being said, and the intent. I rarely use "SK" in fact, even at the end of my last transmission. Most of the time I use AR. As in: 73 DE W5HTW AR and I'm done. I have though, been known to toss in a couple of dits right after the AR! Those 'two dits" are, to me, sort of like that last wave goodbye when you are parting with a friend after you have had lunch, have said goodbye, and are walking your separate ways across the parking lot. You turn and he is looking, so you wave that last little wave. We didn't to that 'dit dit' in the military but this is amateur radio! So I may toss it in. And I may not.

Just have fun. I think eventually, with the computer keyboards, most of the prosigns will be separated into actually two letters, so the transformation has arrived. Either that or someone will figure out how to do BT as a single character on a keyboard!

And, yes, I have often heard the keying of the microphone in aviation radio as a "final acknowledgement." I can't recall now if I ever did that or not. I think I may have now and then, but I'm not sure. I don't do it on ham radio voice operation.

Ed

[k0cmh]

Seems like there is agreement that ther is no strict usage.

I did mean the prosign SK (...-.-, not ... -.-).

I probably should not have clouded the issue with the dit dit thing.

Also, can anyone comment if my definition is correct or a little off the mark, again, I understand it to mean: I am done with this excahnge and do not request or expect a reply from you. Hummmmm, with that definition, I guess the dit dit is kind of silly, since itimplies a returned dit dit.

[k8pg]

I like to say or send it as - VA- MY Elmer always said it ment END OF TRANSMISSION AND NO REPLY or CL( W8QFQ-SK)AND I never send
dit dit/two bits http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
DE-K8PG-Paul:)

[wa9cwx]

Ok, I send "dit dit" after most QSOs these days simply because most of my QSOs these last few years have been ragchews on 40 or 80.

I have had very few 30 second DX QSOs in the last few years.

Dit Dit is just that final wave, usually returned with a "dit".

But what is COOL, and has happened only a few times, and not ALWAYS after a long winded QSO, is when I finish up, sign off, etc. and leave the RX on the same frequency, putsing around the shack and hear a tiny "dit" five min later.....then I wait about 8 - 10 min and send "dit" and a half hour later hear "dit"..... I then send my call, we chat for a few minuets, and then finish the QSO for the second time !

Also, I try NOT to end my CQs with a "CL" or "SK" or "AR".....or the ever popular "KN"..... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Although ANYTHING is better than the NON ending after CQ, which I also hear rather often..."CQ DE W9XXX.....silence,

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ May 11 2006,07:57)]Actually sending "e e" was the outgrowth of a very bad practice (and blatantly illegal) that new Novice Class operators started in the late 1950s. Someone would send the "shave and a hair cut" and wait for someone else to send the "two bits" instead of sending a real CQ. When the "two bits" was received then the station would send his/her call.

These same stations would after they were finished send the sequence again.

After a number of years, as newer amateurs came on board, the "shave and a hair cut" was gradually eliminated from the end sequence leaving the "two bits". Eventually, many amateurs began to think that adding the "dit dit" was "proper" operating procedure which it definitely is NOT! But, since so many were doing this the practice of sending the "two bits" is used by many.

I have even heard people on repeaters pushing their microphone PTT buttons twice to send the "two bits" when finished with a contact.

So many people send the "two bits" when finished with a CW contact these days that I just have come to accept it and to go on to the next contact. However, I do NOT do this myself and I do encourage others NOT to send the "two bits". But, life is too short to get emotionally involved in something as minor as sending "two bits" even if most of those who are sending it don't have a clue as to the origin of the practice.

Glen, K9STH
Actually there is reference to "e e" being sent at the end of telegraphy transmissions since the early 1900s. I don't doubt that this crept into Amateur Radio by way of Maritime or Landline operators. I am trying to find a link for you, but I remember seeing a WWII CW text transcript with the "e e" in it. That said, I don't use it unless the other guys sends it first.

My recent pet-peave is hearing Amateurs send "AR" after calling CQ rather than "K". It started with: "CQ CQ CQ DE WX5XXX WX5XXX AR K" which has already morphed into, "CQ CQ CQ DE WX5XXX WX5XXX AR". Both are wrong but the second is just goofy.


Someone correct me here, but AR is "end of text" which applies to a telegraphy message where "text" is actually the body of the message, NOT the sending of CQ or call signs.

So a correct message would be:

"WX5XXX DE AG4YO BT THX FOR THE SIG RPT ES HATE TO CUT IT SHORT BUT XYL CALLING WIL U BE HR LATER? AR WX5XX DE AG4YO K"

where "THX FOR THE SIG RPT ES HATE TO CUT IT SHORT BUT XYL CALLING WIL U BE HR LATER?" was the text or body of the message.

[AK7V]

One I'm hearing now that I didn't before is the "CQ CQ CQ DE L0NLY L0NLY L0NLY PSE K"

What is that? Please??? #Pretty please answerrrrrrrrrr meeeeeeeeeee!!! K http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Or is it something else I don't understand?

[WA9SVD]

Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ May 11 2006,08:15)]I've always wondered why SK was used, considering its other connotation in the Ham ranks. I've always heard the dit dit when watching others use code too, I thought it was proper practice.
SK (sent as a single character, BEFORE the callsign) meant "end of contact" LONG before it took on the connotation used by many Amateurs today. (and as Glen points out, they "dit dit" is an illegal perversion of proper operations, unless you again send your callsign. Otherwise, it can be considered an "unidentified transmission." The call should ALWAYS be sent last.)

Yes, "SK" (can't put the bar above it, signifying a single character) is taken to mean "Silent Key," but that's pretty much coincidental.

MAny CW "prosigns" (Procedural signals) had origins before Amateur Radio, and even before radio itself; they were a shorthand used by telegraphers. The prosigns were adopted by Amateur Radio operators for the same reasons they were used by the telegraph operators: they were easier and faster to send. (Of course, many early hams WERE telepgrahers, so they were already familiar with the prosigns.)

[k0cmh]

ak7v: I can take a guess at the "pse". It is in common usage in psk and rtty. A CQ call will show up on the computer screen looking like this:

CQ CQ CQ DE K0CMH K0CMH K0CMH PSE K

Sounds some cw ops are bringing their digital practices into CW. Obviously it has been going the other way.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (AK7V @ May 11 2006,11:39)]One I'm hearing now that I didn't before is the "CQ CQ CQ DE L0NLY L0NLY L0NLY PSE K"

What is that? Please??? Pretty please answerrrrrrrrrr meeeeeeeeeee!!! K http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Or is it something else I don't understand?
That is really common when a Russian or Eastern European station is calling CQ. I've done it myself when I feel desperate! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[AK7V]

Quote[/b] ]
That is really common when a Russian or Eastern European station is calling CQ. #I've done it myself when I feel desperate! # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ##http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
I know all about desperate. #5 watts. #I'm going to have to try that! #PSE QRP PRTY PSE #K
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

There's a guy - think it's KC6Z - who has a soliloquy he calls CQ with. #It's at about 50wpm so I can't hardly copy it. #I pick out "cq cq de kc6z looking for some friendly conversation with....(something something something too fast for me)" and things like that, but he's quick. #Never had the guts to answer.

[ae6yd]

I send SK at the end of my last transmission, after the callsigns, as analogous to the voice "clear." ie "SRI XYL CALLING TU FER FB QSO OM ES 73. W6XXX DE KF6CZG SK"
But then again, I'm not exactly an old-timer or a huge CW op.
Also, I've gotten in the "E E" habit as well, but then again I sometimes send a final "73" on phone. Yes, it's illegal, but oh well. And I always end my CQ's with K, though I have said desperate things on phone before... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[w8cbc]

Funny, that last. I occasionally do the opposite, end a SSB contact with a CW "73 de kd8bsr". It's usually when I've learned that the other end is another SKCC.