The Libertarians plan for America is...

[kf6rdn]

With the polorization of the 2 party out of the 2 party system, maybe it's time for reform?

Or maybe it will just dilute the rest of the votes.

[KI4BNC]

to rule the world?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[w8cbc]

It'll dilute them and ensure a perpetual Democrat victory.

Even I would dislike that. Any party that remains too long in power becomes unbearably arrogant. We need wake-up calls every now and then.

[wd0ct]

to make dems and repugs sorry they brought it up?

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (KI4BNC @ May 10 2006,16:26)]to rule the world?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Besides that.. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[al2n]

Everyone leaves everyone else alone.

and....

free drugs for all!!!!

[wv6z]

Quote[/b] (al2n @ May 09 2006,18:46)]Everyone leaves everyone else alone.

and....

free drugs for all!!!!
Hell, I'm there dUD3!

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (KI4BNC @ May 10 2006,17:26)]to rule the world?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
"I can't stand this indecision
Coupled with a lack of vision
Everybody wants to rule the world"- Tears for Fears

Sorry, it's one of my favorite songs from the 80's

Anyway...

Contrary to popular belief, we don't have a "2 party system". Yeah, it's #usually Democrats against Republicans so I can understand why some here would think that way. In actuality, we have a "multiparty system". It's just that the Democrats and the Republicans are MAJOR politcal parties.

At one time there was only ONE politcal party: The Demorcratic Republicans. How this all got changed is for someone to do some research into our history. It's too lengthy to post here.

There are other political parties like the Libertarians such as Mr. Nader's party, "The Green Party" and the Independants.

Untill the Libertarians stand for something besides their famous use of the word "ear" ( http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ), I don't think most main stream Americans are going to vote for them. Ok, I don't "partake" of the herb, so to speak, but I ass|u|me (there's a word for ya) that there are some here that advocate it's use. I'm not one of those, so don't expect expect my vote.

Any political group will advocate reform, that is, until they get in power. Once inside the beltway of Washingtion, they ALL will slide down that slippery slope of greed and corrupution and I don't care if they're Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, or Independant. The trick is, not to get caught. Some politicians aren't that smart. Like the word "marriage", there's something about that word "politician" that changes people no matter who they are.

An "honest politician" is a contradiction in terms.

This is just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

[wv6z]

Well, I have jumped ship as a loyal Republican and had thought about being a Libertarian.... but, I think I will go with.......

THE DALEK PARTY!!!! KILL ALL HUMANS! KILL ALL HUMANS! KILL ALL HUMANS!

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/ku4my/14.jpg

[kf6rdn]

Quote[/b] (ku4my @ May 10 2006,20:12)]THE DALEK PARTY!!!! KILL ALL HUMANS! KILL ALL HUMANS! KILL ALL HUMANS!

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/ku4my/14.jpg
That would be
Exterminate! Exterminate!Exterminate! Exterminate!

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (kf6rdn @ May 10 2006,17:36)]Quote[/b] (KI4BNC @ May 10 2006,16:26)]to rule the world?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Besides that.. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Support the rule of no one, also known as "freedom".

(I am a former Libertarian operative.)

[al2i]

Seriously, the Libertarians would be in a much better position today if it wasn't for the Reagan Presidency. He absolutely sounded perfectly Libertarian during his 1980 campaign. Libertarians were really starting to build momentum, but they were at a delicate stage. After Reagan, the druggies kind of took over much of the party.

[AK7V]

I'd like to see a coherent plan come out of the Libertarian camp.

[K0RGR]

Yes, anybody who comes up with workable proposals to attack our biggest hotbutton issues will prevail. "I don't give a squat" is not a solution. Our government has been so completely useless for so long, it's hard to remember when they actually did something worthwhile.

I've voted Independence Party here in Minnysota in recent elections. They've actually had some good candidates, but nobody ever hears about them.

Tell us how to fix the our dependence on foreign oil, the illegal immigration mess, the cost of healthcare, and a few other things that actually affect the lives of real people, and you'll get my vote. I don't care if you're running on the "Angry SOB Party" ticket.

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]I'd like to see a coherent plan come out of the Libertarian camp.


I guess it's not a Libertarian plan, but the Constitution and The Bill of Rights will have to do.

It's not the "Druggie" party, either. Drug Prohibition has had the same results as alcohol Prohibition. I'm a Libertarian, and have no interest in drugs. If you want to do 'em, that's your problem. My problem is, jail space and enforcement that could be used for real criminals. The asset forfiture takes us back to the middle ages, prove property innocent.

End drug prohibition, I would expect the same result as the end of alcohol prohibition. Violent gangs have ALOT less to kill over, otherwise law abiding people can ingest what they want without fear.

[wa4brl]

Libertarian Linky 1 (http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml)

Libertarian Linky 2 (http://www.lp.org/article_85.shtml)

These will answer alot of your questions.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (kc9iux @ May 11 2006,16:38)]It's not the "Druggie" party, either. Drug Prohibition has had the same results as alcohol Prohibition. I'm a Libertarian, and have no interest in drugs. If you want to do 'em, that's your problem. My problem is, jail space and enforcement that could be used for real criminals. The asset forfiture takes us back to the middle ages, prove property innocent.
Unfortunately, in Alaska anyway, the smell of burning weed strongly dominates the party from time to time. I wish it were otherwise.

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]Unfortunately, in Alaska anyway, the smell of burning weed strongly dominates the party from time to time. I wish it were otherwise.

You went to a meeting where they were smoking?

Ask any cop who he would rather encounter. A drunk(legal to drink), or a person under the influence of "weed".

As a former bouncer/bartender, I've found the drinkers to be far more dangerous. I've never had to go to the floor with a person who was on only pot. I've had to scar drinkers, and they have returned the favor.

[w8cbc]

What bothers me about Libertarianism is, to me, its impracticality. The whole ideology is predicated upon people willingly doing their part and being fair to one another.

If people really were that way in general, I'd be all for it.

But they're not.

Power - be it political, economic, social, or armed - is inevitably abused by those who have it. We have millennia of blood-soaked history to back this up. So there have to be checks upon it.

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]What bothers me about Libertarianism is, to me, its impracticality. The whole ideology is predicated upon people willingly doing their part and being fair to one another.


Hardly. It's about protecting rights, and only punishing those who violate someone elses rights. No Utopia. Like the ideas that Jefferson et al had.

[w8cbc]

Who defines those rights? Who decides whether they've been violated? Who punishes violators? Who makes amends when mistakes are made? How to support the system? What's to keep it from growing back into what we have today? How do you constrain others from setting up gangs in competition with it and becoming regional tinpots? How do you do so without the system itself becoming a dictatorship?

Et cetera.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (kc9iux @ May 11 2006,16:38)]It's not the "Druggie" party, either.
Really? You couldn't convinced your last Liberatarian Presidential candidate of that. As I recall, from the 2004 Presidential campain, legalizing the "herb"' was part of the Libertarian platform. Yep, it even included a webside stating this for all the world to see.

You honestly think and your going to get Mr. and Mrs. "Mainstream America" to vote for that? If so, all I can say is "good luck".

[w8cbc]

I'd rather vote for legal weed than a further escalation of the completely unsuccessful "war on drugs".

This from a guy who don't smoke the stuff.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (kd8bsr @ May 11 2006,21:00)]I'd rather vote for legal weed than a further escalation of the completely unsuccessful "war on drugs".

This from a guy who don't smoke the stuff.
BSR,

I compleatly understand your point. All we did on "the war on drugs" was to waste the taxpayers money. It didn't stop anything. It was like trying to put a band-aid on a gushing wound. It didn't work. The stuff still found it's way to our streets.

Mr and Mrs America are afraid that if their children start puffing on a joint, it won't stop there. It will escalate to bigger things like meth. Oklahoma used to be the meth capital of the world. Ingredients for this stuff were real easy to come by. Some of it could be purchased at the local "Wally World". They even had "mobile labs" cooking this poison in the back of pick-ups. You ask any former meth user in Oklahoma what was the first drug he/she experimented with and most of them will say "marijuana". I kid you not. So, knowing this, Mr and Mrs John Q. Public in Oklahoma are understandably concerned about any political party that advocates its use.

When just comparing alcohol, the current legal drug, to the herb-yeah, marijuana is far less destructive. But it and can, and has led to more deadly "recreational drug" use.

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]But it and can, and has led to more deadly "recreational drug" use.


And 99% of all heroin users started out eating bread.

[AK7V]

Quote[/b] (kd8bsr @ May 11 2006,19:29)]Who defines those rights? #Who decides whether they've been violated? #Who punishes violators? #Who makes amends when mistakes are made? #How to support the system? #What's to keep it from growing back into what we have today? #How do you constrain others from setting up gangs in competition with it and becoming regional tinpots? #How do you do so without the system itself becoming a dictatorship?

Et cetera.
I am no expert, but the Wikipedia page on Libertarianism starts off pretty well:

Quote[/b] ]
Libertarianism is a philosophy advocating that individuals should be free to do whatever they wish with their person or property, as long as they do not infringe on the same liberty of others. Libertarians hold as a fundamental maxim that all human interaction should be voluntary and consensual. They maintain that the initiation of physical force against another person or his property, the threat of initiating it, or the commission of fraud against any person, is a violation of that principle. Force used against others is considered by libertarians to be illegitimate except in retaliation for initiatory aggressions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian

I think the "Non-coerscion Principle" is something unique that seperates the Libertarians from either the Democrats or the Republicans.

See: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/libertarianism.html

Edited to add: There are Libertarians who are so not because of the non-coerscion principle, though. They just think it's the most effective way to create wealth and increase the "public good," for more pragmatic and economic reasons.

[w8cbc]

The main sticking point for me, I guess, is that you have to use coerscion to prevent or correct its use by others. There's one hell of a path to escalation there. It'll become a reactive system at best, and after a few serious tests, an over-reactive system. The next step will be "proactive": punish them before they become a problem. We know where that leads.

As territorial animals, it is part of our nature to push one another around. People who don't, mostly don't by choice. I don't know many who make that choice.

[AK7V]

We already do that. #I don't see it getting worse.

[w8cbc]

My point is, I don't see it getting better.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (kc9iux @ May 12 2006,11:09)]And 99% of all heroin users started out eating bread.
I'll jot that down but I need a source. Got one? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (kd8bsr @ May 12 2006,12:36)]As territorial animals, it is part of our nature to push one another around. People who don't, mostly don't by choice. I don't know many who make that choice.
The human strength of being able to organize peaceably is what brings us the best aspects of civilization and culture. The Libertarians enjoy it when the State is at Peace with an individual.

Unfortunately, the human weakness of seeking to dominate and control others is what brings us the worst aspects of civilization and culture. The Democrats and Republicans enjoy it when State force is used to control an individual.

The Republicans seek to shape the culture one way and the Democrats seek to shape the culture another way. Both will use coercion. At the most fundamental expression, both will kill you if you resist their systems of State power. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats feel a moral stain when individual lives are crushed in their quest to dominate and control. The end justifies the means -- or the bullets.

Wonderfully, freedom works. The most free countries that use State power to enforce respect for individuals are the countries that will prosper and become fountains of creativity and wealth.

Democrats and Republicans have little faith in liberty's power, and if others do not behave exactly as they wish, they will use State power.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ May 12 2006,13:53)]Democrats and Republicans have little faith in liberty's power, and if others do not behave exactly as they wish, they will use State power.
If you assume that from this conservative, think again. I spent a lot years defending the liberties and freedoms #of my fellow countrymen. I served. If I didn't believe in the idea of freedom I would have never stayed in as long as I did. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

What have you done for your country? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 12 2006,14:29)]What have you done for your country? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Bro, that is so classically Republican.

What did I do? Until a few years ago, I never collected any government check. Not a single one. I did not put in for unemployment when I was unemployed, I did not put in for the Alaska permanent fund when I qualified. I did not take anyone's money by force or fraud, ever.

Recently, my heart has hardened and I am a bit less nice. I've left some of my Libertarian roots. I feel that American citizens do not in general deserve to be treated with much respect by me. Screw 'em.

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]What have you done for your country? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Is a DD214 requiered to have an opinion? Or just for it to count?

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]I'll jot that down but I need a source. Got one? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif


Larry Elder.

Got one for the "Gateway drug" thing?

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]



Group: Ham Members
Posts: 1547
Joined: July 2005
Posted: May 11 2006,19:29 QUOTE
Who defines those rights? Who decides whether they've been violated? Who punishes violators? Who makes amends when mistakes are made? How to support the system? What's to keep it from growing back into what we have today? How do you constrain others from setting up gangs in competition with it and becoming regional tinpots? How do you do so without the system itself becoming a dictatorship?

Try The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. It's a VERY good start.

[w8cbc]

It's been tried. Look what we've wound up with - a government that has to be forced from time to time to stay within the letter while all too often violating the spirit.

Would starting over bring better results? Or would it just degenerate back into what we have now? And maybe, without the intertia of continuity, charge right on by and become even worse?

I'm not an optimist in this regard.

[W8EFA]

Quote[/b] ]If you assume that from this conservative, think again. I spent a lot years defending the liberties and freedoms #of my fellow countrymen. I served. If I didn't believe in the idea of freedom I would have never stayed in as long as I did.

What have you done for your country?



Give me a break KLB, #you went in the military because that is what you wanted to do. #How many times are you going to trot that one out? You filled a slot in the miltary and drew a paycheck and a pension. You did what you wanted to do, you are no better than anyone that didn't serve.

[wv6z]

Chris, I like you more and more.... not only do you wear my old avatar well, you have a good head on your shoulders!http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/ku4my/Hotties.jpg

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ May 12 2006,15:25)]
Bro, that is so classically Republican.
Well thank you! I'll take that as a complement. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Quote[/b] ]What did I do? #Until a few years ago, I never collected any government check. #Not a single one. #I did not put in for unemployment when I was unemployed, I did not put in for the Alaska permanent fund when I qualified. #I did not take anyone's money by force or fraud, ever.

Good for you! I have no idea what you're trying to communicate, but... ah... okay (I think). http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Quote[/b] ]Recently, my heart has hardened and I am a bit less nice.#I've left some of my Libertarian roots. #I feel that American citizens do not in general deserve to be treated with much respect by me. #Screw 'em.

So, umm... what you're saying is that think that you're better than your fellow American citizens "in general", right? That's a bit arrogant, don't you think? Did you ever stop to think that maybe some people might feel the same way about you? Maybe you don't care, but it's not a good way to attract new friends. That sad OM... real sad. I'll bet that heart of yours is a lonely place. It's your life. Live it however you see fit.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ May 12 2006,18:01)]Quote[/b] ]If you assume that from this conservative, think again. I spent a lot years defending the liberties and freedoms #of my fellow countrymen. I served. If I didn't believe in the idea of freedom I would have never stayed in as long as I did.

What have you done for your country?



Give me a break KLB, #you went in the military because that is what you wanted to do. #How many times are you going to trot that one out? #You filled a slot in the miltary and drew a paycheck and a pension. #You did what you wanted to do, #you are no better than anyone that didn't serve.

Ah, but it's the truth. I volunteered because, unlike you, I sincerly believe in my country and it's people. Understanding the way you think, I see where you might have trouble understanding these concepts. No matter, I would do it again in a heartbeat, no matter who was President, if they would let me go back.

Where do you read in ANY of my words, in any of my posts anywhere one this forum that I think I'm better than anyone else? #You don't. You have chosen to spin my words to suit your misguided thinking. Never mind that on this thread that AL2I thinks that "most Americans (I guess that would include me since I'm American) in general do not deserve to be treated with much respect by me." #HIS WORDS. That means he may not "respect" you, Bill. Ah, but you choose to overlook that. Why? It because I, being a conservative, do not espouse the same thinking as you and, if the truth be known, you don't like me anyone who supports Bush. #And you wanna know something? Just between you and me... shhh... don't tell nobody, but I am glad I don't think like you. I get dizzy just watching you spin. But I got some "Dramamine" to counter the effects of your posts. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

We both know where your loyalties lie in this matter, don't we, Comrade? Hint: Elephants have loooong memories.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/unclesam.gif

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (kc9iux @ May 12 2006,16:46)]Quote[/b] ]I'll jot that down but I need a source. Got one? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif


Larry Elder.

Got one for the "Gateway drug" thing?
Unfortunately no, just personal experiance from other former drug users. Not me, I never did drugs but I have attended #pretty big "meetings" with some friends who are recovering drug addicts. They smoked a lot the herb before moving on to bigger and more dangerous stuff.

Larry Elder, eh? The liberal radio talk show host on ABC? Yeah, now THERE'S a "real expert". If Larry said it, it's got to be true, right? Riiiight. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

"99% percent of heroine users eat bread". Darn, if this is true, I should be the biggest drug addict in the nation bar none because I LOVE sandwitches with WHITE BREAD. Po' boys, Muffalotta's, PB and J's etc, etc.

Do youself a favor: Turn off the stereo, and start learning something about the hobby. Get that upgrade. Stay away from that stereo. It's kill'n ya here. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[W8EFA]

Quote[/b] ]Where do you read in ANY of my words, in any of my posts anywhere one this forum that I think I'm better than anyone else?

Simply your statement to another poster that you served, he didn't, and what has he done for his country?Quote[/b] ]I get dizzy just watching you spin. But I got some "Dramamine" to counter the effects of your posts I want to throw up when I read your posts because they never quote a fact, you never reference a link. Would you even know how? ##Your posts have no credibility, they are just your regressive opinions that all the news and experts are wrong and you the Okie is right..Quote[/b] ]We both know where your loyalties lie in this matter, don't we, Comrade? Hint: Elephants have loooong memories.
Back to name calling like a 6 year old eh? #Calling me a communist are you? That really torques me off. #Elephants have long memories - if that is some kind of threat bring it on brother. #Fine if you can call me a communist then I guess I can classify you as the Great American Redneck - rural or small town white labouring class guy, typified by bigoted, ultraconservative, conventional, and loutish disposition. #Satisfied now?

[W2ILP]

Real libertarians are so liberal that they don't have any plans. They believe that it is Ok for everyone to do there own thing just for the fun of it. Some hams are libertarians...but they don't knoew that they are funny.

w2ilp (Intelligent Liberatarians Philosophize:) It is OK to do your own thing...just as long as you do it with or to your own thing and don't try to be a teacher, a preacher or a politician.

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]Unfortunately no, just personal experiance from other former drug users. Not me, I never did drugs but I have attended pretty big "meetings" with some friends who are recovering drug addicts. They smoked a lot the herb before moving on to bigger and more dangerous stuff.

Oh, so they told you that at AA? Isn't that a drug(alcohol)? So booze is the start? Isn't it legal?

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]Turn off the stereo, and start learning something about the hobby.
Huh? That makes no sense.

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]Larry Elder, eh? The liberal radio talk show host on ABC?

No, actually, he's a Republican.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ May 12 2006,21:01)]Quote[/b] ]Where do you read in ANY of my words, in any of my posts anywhere one this forum that I think I'm better than anyone else?

Simply your statement to another poster that you served, he didn't, and what has he done for his country?Quote[/b] ]I get dizzy just watching you spin. But I got some "Dramamine" to counter the effects of your posts I want to throw up when I read your posts because they never quote a fact, you never reference a link. #Your posts have no credibility.Quote[/b] ]We both know where your loyalties lie in this matter, don't we, Comrade? Hint: Elephants have loooong memories.
Back to name calling like a 6 year old eh? #Calling me a communist are you? #Elephants have long memories - if that is some kind of threat bring it on brother. #Fine if you can call me a communist then I guess I can classify you as the Great American Redneck - rural or small town white labouring class guy, typified by bigoted, ultraconservative, conventional, and loutish disposition. #Satisfied now?
Bill,

1. I don't have to provide a link for a personal opinion. If you don't like it, don't read it, don respond. Just MoveOn.

2. I never said "Communist" you did. But sometimes I wonder. You have some pretty left wings views that seem to hedge toward socialism to say the very least.

3. What you think about me is of no consequence here. I will continue sleep real well.

This little tantrum your having is due to the fact that you hate Bush, this country, and what it stands for. That's not my problem, it yours. You own it.

Now you'll have to excuse me while ignore you from here on in. I will only respond to those who are adults. Sorry, but it doesn't appear you want fit into that catergory.

[W8EFA]

KLBQuote[/b] ]Where do you read in ANY of my words, in any of my posts anywhere one this forum that I think I'm better than anyone else?

KLBQuote[/b] ]Turn off the stereo, and start learning something about the hobby

Said the General to the Technician --- Oh brother

[KC9IUX]

What's wrong with a stereo? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[W8EFA]

Quote[/b] ]I never said "Communist" you did.No you said Comrade - same thing and you know it and I certainly don't appreciate name calling.Quote[/b] ]This little tantrum your having is due to the fact that you hate Bush, this country, and what it stands for. No my little tantrum has to do with your name calling. #And the fact of the matter is I do hate what Bush has done to this country because I do love it. #People like me make sure that politicians that are bad for our country are held accountable to uphold our values so it doesn't happen again.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (kc9iux @ May 12 2006,21:11)]Quote[/b] ]Unfortunately no, just personal experiance from other former drug users. Not me, I never did drugs but I have attended #pretty big "meetings" with some friends who are recovering drug addicts. They smoked a lot the herb before moving on to bigger and more dangerous stuff.

Oh, so they told you that at AA? #Isn't that a drug(alcohol)? #So booze is the start? #Isn't it legal?
Stop... STOP! Don't go any further. I'm trying to save you here.

First, anyone who knows anything about 12 step programs can tell that you haven't got clue of what you talking about. You obviously have a computer. Believe it or not, it's good for more than just posting here. Look it up. Don't take my word for it. The internet has all kinds of information including stuff about Amateur Radio (hint, hint).

No, Larry's not a Republican. But I was wrong here too thinking he's a liberal. Understandable mistake since his broadcasts are on a liberal news network. His bio, on his website (the internet, remember?), claims he's a "firebrand libertarian". No way you can equate that to a Republican.

Read Larry Elder's Bio (http://www.larryelder.com/bio.html)

See, if I know I wrong I will be the first to admit it. I'm not perfect and I don't think I am better anyone else This young lady and I are having an ADULT conversation. Something others here need to learn to do. You go girl! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KC9IUX]

Quote[/b] ]In May, 2003, Elder shifted his political party registration from "Decline to State" (which, in California, means independent) to the Republican Party.

Taken from here. (http://www.larryelder.com/bio.html)

Quote[/b] ]First, anyone who knows anything about 12 step programs can tell that you haven't got clue of what you talking about.

So you deny what I said? Where you heard about the demon weed?

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ May 12 2006,20:25)]Never mind that on this thread that AL2I thinks that "most Americans (I guess that would include me since I'm American) in general do not deserve to be treated with much respect by me." HIS WORDS. That means he may not "respect" you, Bill. Ah, but you choose to overlook that.
That is correct. I now collect the Alaska Permanent Fund checks and spend the money as I wish (and not just for Libertarian efforts). If I get laid off, I will be at the unemployment office so fast to collect my first-ever unemployment check that it will make your head spin. When I get a chance to collect Socialist Security, I'll be at the head of the line trying to get my cut of the loot.

I am looking into getting government grants to get some extra education, I am collecting government money right now to help educate my daughter, and I plan to get better at working with the entire, evil, looting, mooching system of modern Repubulocratic Socialfascism to get all I can for ME and MY FAMILY from YOU and YOUR FAMILY!

In other words, I have joined the entire system of mutual disrespect that you served to protect. If I had a choice to legally steal money from a Libertarian I wouldn't do it, but there are so few freedom-lovers in this country now that I no longer feel bad about getting my hands in the pot that the IRS loots.

Have a nice day.

[al2i]

The Libertarians really never had a chance for much real national power, but I think that for a while they helped to bias national debate towards a better appreciation of Liberty's power.

Here in Alaska we have elected a total of just three Libertarian legislators to the State government after 30 years of ongoing efforts. When ken Fanning and Dick Randolf were both in the Alaska legislature at the same time, they successfully fought the Republican plan to keep the Alaska State personal income tax, and we have lived tax-free ever since.

In the late 1970's, Alaskans had the highest personal income tax rate in the country, higher even than taxachusetts. I personally paid $6,100 one year and $7,900 the next year in State income tax, only to pay ZERO every year since!

If you live in Alaska, thank a Libertarian.