Blimey

[M0MJH]

No offence meant there to any Germans on the site by the way! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I'm talking about their entry level licence. Over here in the UK we have the foundation licence, you've probably seen and possibly worked some of the guys (callsigns starting M3, MM3, MW3, MD3 etc). They are allowed to operate between 160m and 70cm with a power level of 10w (also 1w on 135khz). Now, I think that the Radiocommunication Agency (as I think it was back then) went about this licence the wrong way as a lot of people I speak to don't seem too bothered about going up the licence ladder as they have access to all the bands they really want and if they get decent aerials up in the air there isn't any need to have more power!

On the other side of the English Channel there is a different take on this by the German powers that be:

(quoted from the RSGB GB2RS news)

Class E licensees now have access to the HF bands and can run up to 75W output on the 160, 80, 15 and 10m bands. #
# # # # # #The German approach to entry level licence holders is subtly different to the UK’s. Rather than giving newcomers access to all bands but at a very low power level, as we do in the UK, Germany has decided to offer them reasonably high power levels but restricted the bands they can use.

Now, maybe i'm just being a little bit mean to these guys who have taken their foundation licence, I must tell you that I did also take my foundation test, granted it was after I already had my intermiediate licence but I won't go into that... But I have always said that they should have only been given access to certain bands. If you were new coming into the hobby, which bands would you probably want to be able to work straight away? Probably 20 and 40m. My thoughts were that if they were to have given the M3s access to say 160m, 80m, 15, 12, 10, 6, 2m there would be great incentive to move up to the next licence so they got 40, 20, 70cm etc. I don't even pretend to know what your different levels of licence over in the states are but I know that certain levels of licence are only allowed on certain parts of bands if they are allowed on them at all.

Ah well, that's my little rant over with. I know these things can't be changed but there we go.

Also, OFCOM (our FCC) have just announced that M3s will now be allowed onto 10m where they havent been able to before. So that means that they have access to everything that everyone else does. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Ah well, we all learn by our mistakes.

73

Mark
M0MJH/2E1MJH/M3MJH

[M3KCK]

Hi Mark,

I see this from a different prospective,

Why not just do away with the Foundation (technician) and the Intermediate (general) and just have the Advance (extra)?

having a lower class of licence is just an Excuse for those with a higher class one to Look Down upon them!

In days of old when call signs only began with "G" in the U.K they where issued in Alphabetical order so that you could Look Down upon someone who’s licence was issued after yours!!

Now I bet Mark that when you had your B Class licence (2E1MJH) and could Not use HF because you did not take the Morse test and have an "A" licence You was Happy when the Foundation Licence (M3) came along that did not require Morse code for HF and you could then use it and ALL HF Bands??

In saying this there is an Incentive to Upgrade at the moment to the Intermediate licence, such as being able to work the Satellites (that’s why I got mine) and a little more power ect, then of course the Advance licence having 400W if required? ect, ect

I do believe that in the USA our Foundation licence equivalent is given 1.5Kw to play with straight away?

But in America they also Publish the Answers to the Exams http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

I guess every Country does it different!
If the U.K wants to do anything then up the power from 10W Qrp and make it harder or just have one Licence?
73
Regards,
Andrew # M3KCK

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (2E1MJH @ May 10 2006,15:24)]Ah well, we all learn by our mistakes.
Not necessarily. Here in the States, we just keep making more mistakes. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

Good show for Germany, though.

73, Rob

[WA2ZDY]

That German license sounds a whole lot like our old Novice license (may it rest in peace.)

Over the years the Novice changed. When I held it in 1975 the rules were pretty simple: CW only on small segments of the 80, 40, 15 and 10m bands. Oh and 75w plate input power and VFO control had just been legalised for Novices.

In the beginning the Novices had 2m phone privileges and many never upgraded since they played on phone rather than getting their code speed up. FCC saw the error of their ways and corrected that. The Novice also started out as a one year non-renewable, and if you had ever held a Novice you could not get it again. Up or out was the rule.

That was a good entry class license. You started easy with privileges that forced you to learn so the path to upgrading wasn't difficult.

Now of course entry level hams in the US are stuck on VHF/UHF and too many of the less than half who do finally get on the air are marooned on the repeaters. No wonder even more give it up.

[M0MJH]

Quote[/b] ]Why not just do away with the Foundation (technician) and the Intermediate (general) and just have the Advance (extra)?

I don't think that would have worked to be honest Andrew. The hobby of amateur radio needs people to continue coming in and making it more accessible was the way to go, but giving foundation licensees all bands... I'm not too sure.

Quote[/b] ]Now I bet Mark that when you had your B Class licence (2E1MJH) and could Not use HF because you did not take the Morse test and have an "A" licence You was Happy when the Foundation Licence (M3) came along that did not require Morse code for HF and you could then use it and ALL HF Bands??

I'm not going to make excuses for why I didn't take the morse test but i will say that I am soon going to be learning morse. I think my tinnitus (strange sounds in your ears which arent really there.Constant high pitched whistle in my case!) was one of the reasons I didn't get very far with it. I often find that I have to come off of the radio as this ringing gets louder and louder (especially when the tuning stations come out to play!)

Quote[/b] ]I do believe that in the USA our Foundation licence equivalent is given 1.5Kw to play with straight away?

Pass on that one Andrew!

73

Mark
M0MJH/2E1MJH/M3MJH

[M3KCK]

Hi Mark,

Please do not think I was having a pop @ you regarding the M3 licence to get on HF, I am very good at being misunderstood!!
I am also in the slow progress of learning Morse for my own Enjoyment!

The M3 licence has made it Easy for people to get an Amateur licence, I don’t see anything wrong with that, but I do find it annoying how these New Amateurs are treated by Some seasoned operators. And the Class divide it creates. A bit like in Society with Working Class and Middle Class ect...

Some Amateurs seem to treat their Amateur Licence like some sort of University degree #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

I suppose none of this matters if you just use HF Only as I did for my first Six months being licensed as you don’t come across the crap I am talking about.

Anyway we have far more Important issues such as PLT (BPL) that does not get the attention it deserves Before we have Real problems with HF,
73
Regards,
Andrew # M3KCK

edit:

See this thread on BPL (PLT) http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin....=121681 (http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=121681)

[w8cbc]

Now I finally understand the British callsigns. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Aye, our entry-level Technician has full privileges above 50 MHz - including the 1500-watt power limit. But it takes passing the 5-WPM Morse proficiency test to get any (legal) HF access at all.

That's what all the code/no-code warfare is about.

[kb2vxa]

Hi all,

No offense blokes but the British have been noted for looking down thier noses quite literally, you know, that head back stance, stiff upper lip and all that rot. The Hollywood butler brought it here, must have been from Hollywood Lancs. ;)

Hams picked up on it quite early on and carry on the tradition of looking down upon the lower classes and carrying on endless code-no code debates while whinging about "the good old days" of taking the test at an office under the watchful scowl of Ebenezer Bligh the FCC Guy. After finally geting perfect copy at 13WPM of such things as "Bah, HUMBUG, this office is CLOSED on Christmas!" and "Mister Christian, get that bloody squid off the bow!" they retired to the WC and made use of the spare breeks they brought with them.

Ah, the good old days, now they shout "If >I< had to do it you should too!" and "You should be locked in the sub-band gaol with a straight key and a crystal!".

Well, if OFF-COM ever did anything right you're now licensed for life while after ten years we're given the choice of being set free with a stipend or having our ears nailed to the door post.

Times have changed but people haven't so I just sit here reading the posts and making silly remarks, you have to strain to understand the obscure references.

[M3KCK]

Quote[/b] (kd8bsr @ May 10 2006,23:52)]our entry-level Technician has full privileges above 50 MHz - including the 1500-watt power limit.
Thanks Andrew for confirming that,

Well Mark, M3s or even MØs would be happy with that, Power that is http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
73
Regards,
Andrew M3KCK

[w8cbc]

Obscure references indeed.

What's a sub-band? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[G8ADD]

You can argue about what Ofcom should have done until the cows come home, but in the end we have to live with what Ofcom actually did.

The three-tier license system will stand or fall by the results it produces. The first objective, which appears to have been increasing the numbers entering amateur radio, seems to have been achieved. Most of the M3s that I know are working towards the Intermediate license, admittedly some of them with little sense of urgency but all with definate intention to upgrade; I had initial doubts that there would be much incentive to upgrade because of how much could be achieved with the Foundation License so I find this encouraging. Then there is the question of quality. Like many others I wondered if such a simple introduction to amateur radio could produce good amateurs; my impression is that the M3s settle in and gain experience and knowledge with commendable rapidity. Indeed many of them now sound as if they have been on the air for decades rather than a few years and are a credit to amateur radio.

In short, although there were other routes that Ofcom could have travelled, their chosen route seems to be quite successful.

There is a most interesting and revealing editorial in this month's Practical Wireless (PW). The Editor, Rob Mannion G3XFD, writes of 40m CW that "what proved fascinating to me was that I heard so many M3s using CW, along with other amateurs that did not have to do "Morse as a Must" for their license". This certainly applies to me; after abandoning the struggle to pass the morse test forty years ago I have returned to the struggle and have made good progress. "Code/No Code" disputants in the USA take notice; the UK has dropped the code test and made an easy route onto HF, and the result? More people using CW! If the FCC progresses from thinking the unthinkable to doing the unthinkable, it would NOT be the end of the world!

73

Brian G8ADD

PS "What is a sub-band"? I reckon that must be VLF, where all the submarines communicate!

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (WA2ZDY @ May 10 2006,18:03)]That German license sounds a whole lot like our old Novice license (may it rest in peace.)

Over the years the Novice changed. When I held it in 1975 the rules were pretty simple: CW only on small segments of the 80, 40, 15 and 10m bands. Oh and 75w plate input power and VFO control had just been legalised for Novices.

In the beginning the Novices had 2m phone privileges and many never upgraded since they played on phone rather than getting their code speed up. FCC saw the error of their ways and corrected that. The Novice also started out as a one year non-renewable, and if you had ever held a Novice you could not get it again. Up or out was the rule.

That was a good entry class license. You started easy with privileges that forced you to learn so the path to upgrading wasn't difficult.

Now of course entry level hams in the US are stuck on VHF/UHF and too many of the less than half who do finally get on the air are marooned on the repeaters. No wonder even more give it up.
I was thinking the same thing. It would be good to have the Tech Plus upgraded to the base US license. That way everyone starting out could make the long distance contacts that they're wanting too and whet their appetite for upgrading. Germany did a good job thinking this out. Hopefully the UK hams will not have to worry about interference from their new band plan.

BTW, the top allocation on this Band Plan diagram shows the "Novice/Technician Plus SUB-BAND" for 40 Meters. They exist on HF on 10, 15, 40 & 80 Meters. This is from a proposal to expand the Sub-Band by the ARRL:
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2001/12/21/2/40m-opt3.gif

RED is the CW (RTTW & Data) portion
BLACK is the PHONE, CW & Image portion

[KF0RT]

Where on earth did you get that chart, John? Must be someone's proposal?

It looks like the ARRL chart, but the dividing line between CW and Phone on 40 meters is 7.150, not 7.125.

Novice and Tech Plus have 7.100 - 7.150 CW; General has 7.225 - 7.300 Phone.

73, Rob

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ May 11 2006,07:40)]Where on earth did you get that chart, John? Must be someone's proposal?

It looks like the ARRL chart, but the dividing line between CW and Phone on 40 meters is 7.150, not 7.125.

Novice and Tech Plus have 7.100 - 7.150 CW; General has 7.225 - 7.300 Phone.

73, Rob
You're right Rob, the ARRL did a proposal awhile back to expand the Novice/Tech+ Sub-Band. The present band plan is still here:
*linky* (http://www.answers.com/topic/40-meters)

Heck, I'd prefer this to the code being dropped. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif