The Democrats plan for America is?

[KW4MW]

Positive comments only please!

[W8EFA]

Generally what it has always been. #An advocate for the lower and middle class average citizen of this country.

A platform that encourages small Business and the policies that allow Big Business to succeed with justified profits and control for a win-win with workers (not CEO's making an average of 500 times the workers salary while they lay off workers due to bad performance).

Health care for all. #If 40 other countries can provide health care to all their Citizens surely the richest country in the world can.

A balanced Budget - Really! Bringing back the pay/go legislation that the Republicans got rid of only allowing the Govt to spend what it receives. #

DNC promises election reform within 100 days of winning.

Education reform including relief from College Education costs to the average American

Environment - Including a belief in Science once again and an Energy Policy that reduces our need, not let's just go get more oil.

Honest Government - within the law for a change!

A Foreign Policy where we actually try diplomacy first and once again become valued and admired in the World. #You can never wipe out terrorism with guns you have to isolate and change the current culture.

Election Reform

[wd0ct]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ May 10 2006,08:43)]Positive comments only please!
Funny coming from you!

The only plan dems need is to not be republicans.

[wd0ct]

How bout giving nickles and dimes to poor people instead of hundred dollar bills to the rich.

[n0ov]

Serious response? Simply, I don't know. In the past, they were suppose to be "an advocate for the lower and middle class average citizen of this country" however now it is really hard to tell the difference between either party.

Let's leave out the finger pointing, lies, and coruption for a bit -- because, unfortunately, those examples can also be found on both sides.

After the last 5 elections, I cannot thing of one thing (other than healthcare) the Dem's proposed that would help anyone and when White Water hit the fan, we all know what happened to health care.

Note: So you know how neutral I actually am thinking, when Clinton (Bill, not bitchary) put healthcare under the microscope this is the first time in many years that costs were NOT going up at a double digit rate.

[ai4ep]

I dont know

[w0aew]

...to defeat the Republicans.

[K0RGR]

I've probably posted this elsewhere already, but I saw an interesting exchange the other day on either PBS or CNN. They had a Democratic campaign strategist and Ed Rollins, the Republican strategist.

The Democrat said that the DNC is planning to unveil its "plan" shortly before the election, just as the GOP did in 1992. This will keep the people's attention on Bush as long as possible.

Ed Rollins said :

1. "Thank heaven for the Kennedy family - they take the people's minds off Bush for a little while".

2. He believes that the CIA director resigning is the result of a major scandal that will be revealed between now and October, linking the White House to huge sums of pilfered military money and Jack Abramoff.

If Ed is right about this, the Democrat plan will be " I am not a Republican". I'm not sure what the GOP slogan will be, but the winning one from a recent election in Guatemala might work: "I will steal less".

[wd0ct]

"2. He believes that the CIA director resigning is the result of a major scandal that will be revealed between now and October, linking the White House to huge sums of pilfered military money and Jack Abramoff."

It has already started according to what I saw on msnbc. Abramhoff was close to a couple of Goss's CIA buddies that are involved in the Duke Cunningham sex for favors scandel. Supposedly this is part of the reason Goss was dumped as fast as possible.
Funny stuff going on. One of the pals is called Nine Fingers. Makes me wonder how this CIA guy got his name. Visions of Nine Fingers and old hot fingers Gordon Liddy playing with hatchets and lighters at the Watergate hotel come to mind.
It just keeps getting better! The Rove indictment countdown is approaching liftoff.

[k9kxq]

Democrats need only 15 seats to controll the house, polls indicate that 51% of Americans say they want democrats to controll congress with 34% favoring republican controll.

Republicans have 50 seats that are in play while democrats have only 10 seats that face strong challenges.

Nancy Pelosi (house minority leader) of California said in interviews that a Democratic House would launch investigations of the Bush administration, beginning with the White House's first-term energy task force and probably including the use of intelligence in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq.

Pelosi denied Republican allegations that a Democratic House would move quickly to impeach President Bush.

Pelosi said: ''You never know where the facts take you . . . but that is not what we are about,"

Pelosi said: "Investigation does not equate to impeachment," she said. ''Investigation is the requirement of Congress. It is about checks and balances."

Personally I believe congress will move fast and swift to impeach, the democrats are a sure foot in this November...

kxq

[KC2ESD]

To me it seems the Democrats only B&Moan about the Republicans. They don't IMHO have any thing better to offer. If the Democrats offered something better then the Republicans they could get my vote. Its all down to who has the better product and Right now its the Republicans (When it comes to kicking the rears of Terrorists).

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] ]Generally what it has always been. An advocate for the lower and middle class average citizen of this country.

A platform that encourages small Business and the policies that allow Big Business to succeed with justified profits and control for a win-win with workers (not CEO's making an average of 500 times the workers salary while they lay off workers due to bad performance).

Health care for all. If 40 other countries can provide health care to all their Citizens surely the richest country in the world can.

A balanced Budget - Really! Bringing back the pay/go legislation that the Republicans got rid of only allowing the Govt to spend what it receives.

DNC promises election reform within 100 days of winning.

Education reform including relief from College Education costs to the average American

Environment - Including a belief in Science once again and an Energy Policy that reduces our need, not let's just go get more oil.

Honest Government - within the law for a change!

A Foreign Policy where we actually try diplomacy first and once again become valued and admired in the World. You can never wipe out terrorism with guns you have to isolate and change the current culture.

Election Reform

Socialist Nirvana Hoo Haw.

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ May 10 2006,12:01)]To me it seems the Democrats only B&Moan about the Republicans. They don't IMHO have any thing better to offer. If the Democrats offered something better then the Republicans they could get my vote. Its all down to who has the better product and Right now its the Republicans (When it comes to kicking the rears of Terrorists).
Nothing but Talking Points, provided by Rush, et al.

How about some substance, station? Or can't you think without your AM radio?

Dave WX7B
Sonoma County, CA

[AK7V]

Quote[/b] (W8EFA @ May 10 2006,09:40)]Generally what it has always been. #An advocate for the lower and middle class average citizen of this country.
Free-marketers and libertarians and most conservatives see their position as an advocacy for the average and poor American, too.

Nobody wants people to be poor or suffering. Nobody wants people dieing in the streets.

Some of us recognize the superiority of a more free-market and charity-based approach to helping the downtrodden.

Both sides are convinced that their positions will increase the well-being of the poor.

The idea that the Democrats are the party that advocates for the poor is, in my opinion, "misinformation." The Democrat's policies encourage harmful, detrimental reliance on the government. The Republican's policies encourage harmful, detrimental reliance on the government _for corporations_.

When push comes to shove, I'm more concerned with individuals being undermined and weakened than corporations.

[k9kxq]

Quote[/b] (WX7B @ May 10 2006,15:05)]Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ May 10 2006,12:01)]To me it seems the Democrats only B&Moan about the Republicans. They don't IMHO have any thing better to offer. If the Democrats offered something better then the Republicans they could get my vote. Its all down to who has the better product and Right now its the Republicans (When it comes to kicking the rears of Terrorists).
Nothing but Talking Points, provided by Rush, et al. #

How about some substance, station? Or can't you think without your AM radio?

Dave WX7B
Sonoma County, CA
That may pose as a real problem for him Dave.. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

kxq

[wa6ccw]

Quote[/b] (WX7B @ May 11 2006,03:05)]Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ May 10 2006,12:01)]To me it seems the Democrats only B&Moan about the Republicans. They don't IMHO have any thing better to offer. If the Democrats offered something better then the Republicans they could get my vote. Its all down to who has the better product and Right now its the Republicans (When it comes to kicking the rears of Terrorists).
Nothing but Talking Points, provided by Rush, et al. #

How about some substance, station? Or can't you think without your AM radio?

Dave WX7B
Sonoma County, CA
Hey Dave:

How about putting what you're preaching here into practice, huh? Or is it just not possible for you to respond to a perceived opponent without the ad hominem..??

[w8cbc]

What they should do:

Balance the Federal budget. It'll be bloody hard to do now but it is vital to stop increasing the Federal debt now before it's gone beyond the point of no return.

Cut out subsidies to corporations that're already making profits.

Evaluate our military commitments and pull back from those that can be accomplished at least as well by others. Concentrate meanwhile on cleaning up the mess we've made in Iraq.

Stabilise the US Dollar. The first item will help in this. Higher interest rates will also help, and will help reduce the inflation that's coming.

Better support public education through flexibility in regulations and funding.

What I think they will do:

Move in the right direction in all of these areas but not far enough.

[ab8ma]

Quote[/b] (ai4ep @ May 10 2006,16:59)]I dont know
Bingo.

I sure would not like the job. Would not matter what party I was affiliated with.

Oh, fix the price of gold. Don't let it float. Make it - say - 35 dollars an ounce.

[w8cbc]

Wow. You sure ain't afraid of deflation! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

$701.5 was yesterday's close, in case anyone's interested.

I'd not been keeping track. I thought it was in the 500s.
700+ was an unpleasant shock.

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (wa6ccw @ May 10 2006,13:38)]Quote[/b] (WX7B @ May 11 2006,03:05)]Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ May 10 2006,12:01)]To me it seems the Democrats only B&Moan about the Republicans. They don't IMHO have any thing better to offer. If the Democrats offered something better then the Republicans they could get my vote. Its all down to who has the better product and Right now its the Republicans (When it comes to kicking the rears of Terrorists).
Nothing but Talking Points, provided by Rush, et al. #

How about some substance, station? Or can't you think without your AM radio?

Dave WX7B
Sonoma County, CA
Hey Dave:

How about putting what you're preaching here into practice, huh? Or is it just not possible for you to respond to a perceived opponent without the ad hominem..??
Oh, get real CCW.

My positions have been made very clear.

You're one of the key pracitioners of "ad hominem".

Let's not get all high and mighty, shall we?

Dave WX7B
Sonoma County, CA

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (k9kxq @ May 10 2006,13:33)]Quote[/b] (WX7B @ May 10 2006,15:05)]Quote[/b] (KC2ESD @ May 10 2006,12:01)]To me it seems the Democrats only B&Moan about the Republicans. They don't IMHO have any thing better to offer. If the Democrats offered something better then the Republicans they could get my vote. Its all down to who has the better product and Right now its the Republicans (When it comes to kicking the rears of Terrorists).
Nothing but Talking Points, provided by Rush, et al. #

How about some substance, station? Or can't you think without your AM radio?

Dave WX7B
Sonoma County, CA
That may pose as a real problem for him Dave.. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

kxq
Of course it will.

It's obvious why...

Dave WX7B
Sonoma County, CA

[KI4BNC]

To rule the world?
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[w8cbc]

At least you're consistent.

Vote ki4bnc in 2008.

You know what you'll get.

How's that for a slogan? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KI4BNC]

Quote[/b] (kd8bsr @ May 10 2006,17:16)]At least you're consistent.

Vote ki4bnc in 2008.

You know what you'll get.

How's that for a slogan? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT
I REPEAT:
DO NOT VOTE FOR ME!!!
THAT IS ONE JOB I DO NOT WANT!
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
I'm moody,slow,lazy,self centered,ugly,dirty
vulgar,and my IQ is only 136
NO you don't want me as your pres.
on the other hand I AM consistent,somewhat predictable
and my motto is:
There is no problem that can not be solved without the proper application of high explosives.
http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[w8cbc]

Quote[/b] ]I'm moody,slow,lazy,self centered,ugly,dirty
vulgar,and my IQ is only 136

And that makes you different, how?

Except maybe the IQ. It's way too high to get popular support. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Quote[/b] ]THAT IS ONE JOB I DO NOT WANT!

Okay, that too.

The guy who don't want the position will generally do a superior job at it so he can quit and not have to go back and do it again.

VOTE KI4BNC IN 2008!

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KW4MW]

To date replies to Dem/Rep plans for America – both posts. #

Categories: #subjective to interpretation – your score may differ

Negative - words unfavorable to the party in question
Inane # # #- typical silly responses and the usual bitch fights
Serious # - on topic responses, not necessarily pro-party but at least well thought out
Non-issue – not on topic and not quite in the inane category. # #

# # # # #
# # # # # # # # Negative # # # Inane # # # #Serious # # Non-issue # Total

Rep # # # # # # # 2 # # # # # # # # #8 # # # # # # # #11 # # # # # # # 5 # # # # # # #26
Dem # # # # # # #1 # # # # # # # #11 # # # # # # # # #6 # # # # # # # 6 # # # # # # #24

There were 42% serious responders to the Republican issue and 25% serious responders to the Democrat issue.

[W8EFA]

Synopsis of the Republican Plan or discussion of their platform = 0

[KW4MW]

Quote[/b] ]Synopsis of the Republican Plan or discussion of their platform #= 0Yeah, I'll have to give you that - I am really disappointed that there weren't more people taking it seriously from either party. #

So I tried to grade on some kind of scale - still not exact - lots of judgement calls on my part that others would dispute. #

But giving credit where credit is due, you W8EFA replied to the full spirit of the question and provided some valid talking points, #probably the best reply for either thread.

Bravo Zulu (well done)

[W8EFA]

Uh Thanks, that and $3.00 will get me a gallon of gas http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KW4MW]

Quote[/b] ]Uh Thanks, that and $3.00 will get me a gallon of gas

87 Octane I assume.

[w8cbc]

I was gonna say something like that.

I paid 3.07/gal for 89 yesterday.

[K0RGR]

Quote[/b] (AK7V @ May 10 2006,13:25)]Nobody wants people to be poor or suffering. Nobody wants people dieing in the streets.

Some of us recognize the superiority of a more free-market and charity-based approach to helping the downtrodden.

Both sides are convinced that their positions will increase the well-being of the poor.

The idea that the Democrats are the party that advocates for the poor is, in my opinion, "misinformation." The Democrat's policies encourage harmful, detrimental reliance on the government. The Republican's policies encourage harmful, detrimental reliance on the government _for corporations_.

That last paragraph looks like something that an aristocrat in Charles Dickens' books would say...

The basic Democratic philosophy is that members of society should work together for the common good. Democrats are not looking for handouts, no matter how often Limbaugh says so. We're looking for projects that are too big to be left to the free market. Projects like Hoover Dam, CVP, TVA, and the space program helped to create the middle class existence that most of us enjoy. The 'free market' country of 100 years ago was a country of the fabulously wealthy surrounded by the unspeakably poor. We don't want to go back to that kind of society.

The more socialistic of Democrats also believe that some things, like health care and energy, are much too important to be left entirely to the free market to regulate. They also believe that inheritance taxes are crucial to ensuring the existence of a middle class.

Once upon a time, the two parties could work with each other to achieve compromises. Big projects were done, but often done in ways that would have the lowest possible impact on taxes.

Now, we have one party that's pledged that there will be no new taxes, and is attempting to starve the government through irresponsible taxcuts for the wealthiest members of society. It's not possible to compromise with imperial edicts and immobile dogma. As a result, projects and activities for the common good have stagnated or worse.
There is indeed class warfare - the middle class is getting killed.

As for "faith-based" and "charity-based" programs - Democrats believe in the dignity of the individual. We believe it's better to have everyone contribute toward the welfare of the community, rather than forcing people to beg for their existence on an individual basis.

Democrats are the heirs of Thomas Jefferson, who spent most of his life working on laws to limit or eliminate the aristocracy. Sadly, in the last 5 years, Congress has repealed many of Jefferson's laws. The return of the landed aristocracy can't be far behind.

[AK7V]

Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ May 12 2006,08:58)]As for "faith-based" and "charity-based" programs - Democrats believe in the dignity of the individual. We believe it's better to have everyone contribute toward the welfare of the community, rather than forcing people to beg for their existence on an individual basis. #

Democrats are the heirs of Thomas Jefferson, who spent most of his life working on laws to limit or eliminate the aristocracy. #Sadly, in the last 5 years, Congress has repealed many of Jefferson's laws. The return of the landed aristocracy can't be far behind.

Sorry, but I don't see the dignity in being forced to pay the tax man at gunpoint. #Nor do I see the dignity in suckling the government (which forces others to pay at gunpoint). #That's armed robbery.

Also, I think Jefferson would vomit with rage if he saw what Democrats and Republicans have done to his ideas.

Your comments on the middle classes are good. #I agree they're struggling and are vital. #But historically, free trade, private property, and individual inginuity has been what creates the middle, merchant class. #Not big government and high taxes.

[KC2ESD]

Quote[/b] ]How about some substance, station? Or can't you think without your AM radio?

I think the way I do way before I ever heard of Rush Limbaugh. I can think with or with out AM Radio, or SSB, CW, and FM too.
Rick KC2ESD

[w8cbc]

Here's a point I haven't seen raised in here.

All these services that everyone uses - police, fire protection, roadway building and maintenance, basic infrastructure - things that the well-to-do generally demand in greater proportion than the rest of us - shouldn't they be paid for? Charging per-use tolls will create more complexity and make them more expensive to maintain. Relying on "voluntary" contributions will result in their crumbling away to nothing. Taxation is the only practical way to keep these things going.

Take an old neighbourhood. Money moves in and makes demands. Services are upgraded, new roads are built. Land taxes hit the stratosphere. The original locals are forced to leave because they cannot pay for these things they don't particularly want and have never asked for. The monied ones bitch and whine about taxes, ignoring the fact that they're responsible for pushing them up to begin with.

I've seen it all too often.

[K0RGR]

Quote[/b] (AK7V @ May 12 2006,10:27)]Quote[/b] (K0RGR @ May 12 2006,08:58)]As for "faith-based" and "charity-based" programs - Democrats believe in the dignity of the individual. We believe it's better to have everyone contribute toward the welfare of the community, rather than forcing people to beg for their existence on an individual basis.

Democrats are the heirs of Thomas Jefferson, who spent most of his life working on laws to limit or eliminate the aristocracy. Sadly, in the last 5 years, Congress has repealed many of Jefferson's laws. The return of the landed aristocracy can't be far behind.

Sorry, but I don't see the dignity in being forced to pay the tax man at gunpoint. Nor do I see the dignity in suckling the government (which forces others to pay at gunpoint). That's armed robbery.

Also, I think Jefferson would vomit with rage if he saw what Democrats and Republicans have done to his ideas.

Your comments on the middle classes are good. I agree they're struggling and are vital. But historically, free trade, private property, and individual inginuity has been what creates the middle, merchant class. Not big government and high taxes.
OK, if you consider the "merchant class" rather than labor to be the middle class. Small businessmen that stay small fall in the middle class in terms of income. But 'free trade' did not bring the working man - labor - into the middle class. A combination of those forces you would call "the left" did.

Working people understand well the idea of pooling their money for the common good. And, instead of each laborer begging the "merchant class" for a few crumbs to eat as they had for centuries, they formed unions to represent them, and managed to achieve living wages and benefits. They elected people who invested in America's future through projects that employed more men at good wages, further driving up the standard of living. The "merchant class" benefited greatly, as the workers now had money to spend on their goods, and leisure time in which to enjoy them.

The problem today is that the unions have gone too far. They built their own aristocracy, and it needed to be torn down. Well, that's done. But, as Will Rogers said, the problem with self-made men is that they worship their maker too much.

The people that worked on assembly lines, and shovelled coal were self-reliant, God-fearing Americans, too. Today , they work in offices, slaving over computers, usually serving the "merchant class" in some way. Calling them communists or worse for wanting to have a better life without becoming members of the "merchant class" is an injustice.

Jefferson was opposed to any government that tried to control the people. Both of our parties have tried that in recent decades, but the one in power now is doing a much better job of it than anyone else since Jefferson's time.

[k0ro]

K0RGR...

Thanks for the comments. I think it will make clear to W8EFA that you were being sarcastic in your praise of "republican" virtues such as ensuring the the high earners pay proportionately less in taxes than low earners!

Two taxes that have not come to be that were proposed within the early Clinton administration:

1: Imputed income tax on real estate.

Say you live in a house with an $800 mortgage, but from the census information the government realizes you could rent it for $2,000/month. Guess what? Since you COULD be renting it for $1200/month more, you have an imputed income of $14400/year added to your taxable income.

It would be worse on those who had paid off their mortgages!

2) One time pension/401(k) tax.

It was suggested that all pension funds and 401(k)s be hit with a one-time, 15% tax...not on their income, but their principal.

Finally...we are at 48% of the wage earning population paying no income tax...there is a goal to move that to more than 50%. What upset W8EFA and others is that the Fair Tax would remove even the payroll tax from most of the poor and some of the middle class.

;) Art

[kc0rom]

THE REPUBLICANS CONTINUE TO BITCH ABOUT WHAT WAS OR WASN'T DONE IN THE CLINTON YEARS AS PRESIDENT,LETS GET OVER IT AND LOOK AT WHAT THE CURRENT REGIME HASN'T DONE OR REFUSES TO ADDRESS,THE REASONS FOR GAS PRICES AT THEIR CURRENT LEVEL IS THE BIGGEST LINE OF BULL I HAVE EVER HEARD,IT COMES DOWN TO GREED,MR. BUSH'S OIL TIES ARE MORE THAN APPARENT,THESE PRICES HAVE AFFECTED ALL OTHER MARKETS AND THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING TO PROMOTE JOBS SO THAT PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TO PAY FOR THESE THINGS,THE TRICKLE DOWN ECONOMICS,OR SHOULD I SAY REAGANOMICS IS THE SAME BULL#### WE GOT FROM RONALD REAGAN AND BUSH'S DADDY,AS FOR THE TERRORISTS,NOBODY FROM IRAQ ATTACKED US,IF WE WERE WORRIED ABOUT SADDAM HUSSEIN WE SHOULD HAVE TOOK HIM OUT DURING DESERT STORM.TERRORISTS FROM AFGANISTAN ATTACKED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BUT YOU HEAR VERY LITTLE ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON THERE. WHEN DO WE GET TO HANG BIN LADINS HEAD ON A STICK AND PARADE IT AROUND ? WHEN WE SPEND SEVERAL BILLION MORE DOLLARS THAT WE DON'T HAVE. THIS SO CALLED WAR WAS STARTED TO KEEP THE U.S FROM GOING INTO A DEEPER RECESSION THAN WHAT DID OCCUR,IT'S THE SAME OLD GAME UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME,THE DEMOCRATS NEED A PLAN TO TAKE AMERICA BACK FROM IDIOTS LIKE GEORGE W. BUSH AND DICK CHANEY BEFORE THEY SPEND US INTO OBLIVION AND STARVE THE GOVERNMENT WITH TAX CUTS. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION AND I SUPPORT THIS STATEMENT. KC0ROM

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (AK7V @ May 12 2006,10:27)]Also, I think Jefferson would vomit with rage if he saw what Democrats and Republicans have done to his ideas.
Jason--

I am sure that Jefferson would be shocked, but I have never seen anyone "vomit with rage".

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ May 13 2006,05:44)]Quote[/b] (AK7V @ May 12 2006,10:27)]Also, I think Jefferson would vomit with rage if he saw what Democrats and Republicans have done to his ideas.
Jason--

I am sure that Jefferson would be shocked, but I have never seen anyone "vomit with rage".

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
You don't hang out at the same bars I used to. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ May 11 2006,13:56)]To date replies to Dem/Rep plans for America – both posts.

Categories: subjective to interpretation – your score may differ

Negative - words unfavorable to the party in question
Inane - typical silly responses and the usual bitch fights
Serious - on topic responses, not necessarily pro-party but at least well thought out
Non-issue – not on topic and not quite in the inane category.


Negative Inane Serious Non-issue Total

Rep 2 8 11 5 26
Dem 1 11 6 6 24

There were 42% serious responders to the Republican issue and 25% serious responders to the Democrat issue.
To quote my hero, "I don't believe in polls." http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

As of the time this was posted, the forum for Republican ideas was not in the 8 pages of 'new posts'. The Democratic and Libertarian forums were. Denotes interest. Ideas by themselves are good. Action would be interesting. Positive outcome would be great. There have been many ideas from the Right that have been discarded over the years. Ones that have come from the Democratic and Liberal parties are still here. That suggests nothing better (at least to the people of the country) has come along to replace them.

What direction should the Democratic Party take? Whatever they decide will probably be UP, since there is very little room for down where we're at right now.

Re-instituting programs that were cut or dropped by the right is one positive outcome. Victimizing the voiceless should not be a way of insuring tax cuts for the rich. Since the economy is in such bad shape (prices on most necessities are way up), there will have to be a way of shoring up the dollar and oil. Plans will have to be made for that. Alternatives to present sources of power will have to be made. Unlike the current situation which panders to the unwillingness of Americans to suffer even the least sacrifice, there will have to be some made if our troops are to be sucessful overseas. We should back them up by giving them the best that we can, (food, equipment and armour) since they are giving us their all. They should not be wasting their efforts on peoples who do not want democracy or do not appreciate their efforts. They should be devoted to bringing to justice the person(s) involved in 9/11 and subsequent acts of terrorism. Wherever they are. Which means Iraq is pretty much on it's own. Not connected with 9/11? Then it's not our problem and we shouldn't waste one more American life on it. If we're going to risk American (and sometimes allies) lives, let's put our military resources where they matter and get the job done right for a change. We owe that much to our troops and our allies.

My .02 cents. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KW4MW]

Quote[/b] ]As of the time this was posted, the forum for Republican ideas was not in the 8 pages of 'new posts'. The Democrat thread was posted 5/10 @ 10:43 AM
The Republican thread was posted 5/10 @10:44

Both threads have consistently been on the first two pages of 'new posts', interestingly the Democrat thread was always 'further down the page' whenever I checked it. #

That said, neither was started as a poll. # They were started as an attempt at serious debate instead of the rancor and rhetoric that passes on here as informed discussions.

Unfortunately the usual suspects showed up with the same tired cliched #responses. #

Quote[/b] ]There have been many ideas from the Right that have been discarded over the years. #Ones that have come from the Democratic and Liberal parties are still here.
I'm sure that the converse is also true. # Please don't try to convince us that only Democrats/Liberals have good ideas.

Quote[/b] ]What direction should the Democratic Party take? #Whatever they decide will probably be UP, since there is very little room for down where we're at right now.
Well at least your honest about that - quite frankly I think the entire political system needs a complete overhaul.
Quote[/b] ]Re-instituting programs that were cut or dropped by the right is one positive outcome. General sweeping statement - could you be specific? And again, I suspect that the converse is also true. #I suspect that there are some programs that should have been dropped and some we should have kept. #IMHO any program that takes money away from hard working people to provide income to the idle class should be eliminated.
Quote[/b] ]Victimizing the voiceless should not be a way of insuring tax cuts for the rich - please elaborate.
I am by no means 'rich' but isn't it about time that we quit blaming everybody that is more successful than we are? #
Quote[/b] ]the economy is in such bad shape (prices on most necessities are way up), there will have to be a way of shoring up the dollar and oil. #Plans will have to be made for that.The dollar is down in part due to our huge trade deficit - maybe it's about time our pols think about 'America first' and start imposing some import duties although that will make the WalMart ladies bitch and moan. #We have oil - we just can't get it, the greens have pretty much handcuffed the oil industry from drilling in the USA. #It's not just the Al Gore NIMBY crowd, Guv. Jeb Bush & company don't want drilling for oil off the coasts of Florida, yet less than 90 miles to the south, China and India are planning to drill for oil off the Cuban coast. # China, Cuba reported in Gulf oil partnership (http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/09/news/economy/oil_cuba/)Quote[/b] ]Adding insult to injury, the Times said U.S. firms were invited to bid on the Cuban contracts, but were barred by the U.S. government due to the country's longstanding economic embargo of communist Cuba.

Firms from Canada and Spain will also drill off the Cuban coast,
Quote[/b] ]Unlike the current situation which panders to the unwillingness of Americans to suffer even the least sacrifice, there will have to be some made if our troops are to be sucessful overseas. #We should back them up by giving them the best that we can, (food, equipment and armour) since they are giving us their all. #They should not be wasting their efforts on peoples who do not want democracy or do not appreciate their efforts. #They should be devoted to bringing to justice the person(s) involved in 9/11 and subsequent acts of terrorism. #Wherever they are. #Which means Iraq is pretty much on it's own. #Not connected with 9/11? #Then it's not our problem and we shouldn't waste one more American life on it. #If we're going to risk American (and sometimes allies) lives, let's put our military resources where they matter and get the job done right for a change. #We owe that much to our troops and our allies.
Agreed, we should have never invaded Iraq, a few special ops would have accomplished a lot more than invading and occupying the entire country. #Unfortunately we are now in a situation where any wholesale withdrawal without the Iraqis agreeing to some form of government control and oversight is going to lead to more tribal warfare in that country and give us another black eye. #

I believe our armed forces should be used for the defense of our country only and not as the policemen of the world. #World policing should be the job of the U.N., unfortunately that organization is corrupt to the core. #Any excursions of our military outside of our borders should be specifically aimed at retaliation at those who have or who are trying to hurt us militarily. #One duty of our troops is to protect the free enterprise system of our society but when we use them as muscle to gain an economical advantage that is wrong.

Quote[/b] ]My .02 cents.Ahem! # $0.02 #?

[kc0rom]

it is hard not to be angered by everything that is going on in the political arena at this time,so many policies and issues need to be dealt with in a different manner and so far MR. BUSH HAS REALLY SCREWED THINGS UP,HAD ONE OF HIS CRONIES TAKE THE BLAME OR HE GOES ON VACATION,IF THE REPUBLICANS WANTED TO APPOINT SOMEBODY AS PRESIDENT,NEITHER THE 2000 OR THE 2004 ELECTIONS WERE VALID,THEY COULD HAVE AT LEAST PUT NEWT GUENGRICH IN THERE,(SOMEBODY WITH HALF A BRAIN). AS FAR AS A PLAN YOU WOULD HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THE END OF MR. GEORGE WEENIE HEAD BUSH'S TERM TO SEE WHAT ELSE HE HAD SCREWED UP FIRST BEFORE YOU TRIED TO SAVE SOCIAL SECURITY,TRIED TO SAVE THE GOVERNMENT FROM BANKRUPTCY,TRIED TO SAVE WHAT IS LEFT OF THE MILITARY,ATTEMPT TO REPAIR WORLD TIES SO THAT THEY WOULD BUY AMERICAN GOODS AGAIN AND QUIT SELLING OFF AMERICA A PIECE AT A TIME IN THE NAME OF TRADE DEFICITS,I DON'T KNOW ABOUT ANY OF THE REST OF YOU BUT AFTER SIX YEARS OF THIS BULLCRAP ,I AM TIRED OF IT. CALL ME INANE IF YOU WISH,BUT SOMEBODY HAS TO FIND THE BOTTOM LINE TO THIS MESS. PEOLE ARE SUFFERING AND SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT IT. SINCERELY KC0ROM

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] ]Quote[/b] ]There have been many ideas from the Right that have been discarded over the years. Ones that have come from the Democratic and Liberal parties are still here.
I'm sure that the converse is also true. Please don't try to convince us that only Democrats/Liberals have good ideas.
Mostly good theories. Smaller Gov't, Supply side economics, compassionate conservatism - all theories that didn't work and summarily discarded. SSI, Medicare, Medicaid all still here until a unified healthcare system is instituted for ALL Americans - not just the poor. This has been sucessfully done in every western country except the U.S.A.

Quote[/b] ]Quote[/b] ]Re-instituting programs that were cut or dropped by the right is one positive outcome. General sweeping statement - could you be specific? And again, I suspect that the converse is also true. I suspect that there are some programs that should have been dropped and some we should have kept. IMHO any program that takes money away from hard working people to provide income to the idle class should be eliminated.
No I will not elaborate. This has been in the news constantly for 6 years. The people who are gutting the programs that were safety nets and the last resort for some know what they are. They also knew better than to be Reverse Robin Hoods. As far as the Idle Rich Class, I agree, they shouldn't be getting tax breaks to further subjugate the poor and middle-class.

* linky * (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7285313/)
Quote[/b] ]President Bush's tax cuts since 2001 have shifted more of the tax burden from the nation's rich to middle-class families, according to a study released Friday by the Congressional Budget Office.
* linky * (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/16/politics/main636398.shtml)

As you can also see, information isn't exactly easy to come by either (from an original NY Times story - by subscription only):
* linky * (http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/47/16839)
Times Article:
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://gk.nytimes.com/mem/gatekeeper.html&OQ=_rQ3D1Q26URIQ3DhttpQ3AQ2FQ2Fwww.nytimes.comQ2F2 006Q2F01Q2F10Q2FpoliticsQ2F10irs.htmlQ26OQ5
1Q3D_rQ513D1Q26OPQ3D4b6bbad6Q512FQ512ANR5Q512A7Q51 7DQ515Cc(Q517DQ517D!pQ512ApEEQ5125Q512AESQ512ASEQ5 12AnQ517DA.!.Q515CcQ512ASE.(czq!PA&OP=358f79b9Q2FQ25x-CQ25ASQ5D-W(Q3AQ25gQ5D,WddAEQ25dq8Q5D-gQ5D-(Q25Q3DWQ5D-c--d-qQ2BgQ5D," target="_blank">* linky *</a>
Quote[/b] ]Quote[/b] ]Victimizing the voiceless should not be a way of insuring tax cuts for the rich - please elaborate.
I am by no means 'rich' but isn't it about time that we quit blaming everybody that is more successful than we are?
Someone once said, &quot;there is no honest way of making a million dollars.&quot; I've only seen a couple of people who werer the exception to the rule. Of course with inflation that figure should probably be a bit higher.

Quote[/b] ]Quote[/b] ]My .02 cents.Ahem! $0.02 ?

In my case it really is worth .02 cents. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KW4MW]

MWQuote[/b] ]IMHO any program that takes money away from hard working people to provide income to the idle class should be eliminated.
nhQuote[/b] ] As far as the Idle Rich Class, I agree, they shouldn't be getting tax breaks to further subjugate the poor and middle-class.
Although I agree with your reply, my reference to the &quot;idle class&quot; is of those capable of earning a living but are content to subsist at the government teat.