True BOOTLEGGING on 40 meters

[k4lem]

Bootlegger- signing N8AD and playing with a computer making illegal retransmissions.


Time currently 7:35 PM EDST.

Lets get this guy! No arguing with him. Just record.

[KB3LIX]

He is S-9 in Pittsburgh, I hear a tape recording itself over and over again.

No recording capabilities here.
He just ID'ed as N8AD, Len in Erie PA.
'Freecars'

[k4lem]

Quote[/b] (KB3LIX @ May 09 2006,18:49)]He is S-9 in Pittsburgh, I hear a tape recording itself over and over again.

No recording capabilities here.
He just ID'ed as N8AD, Len in Erie PA.
'Freecars'
[QUOTE]

Yeah, that's the station. If he really is N8AD needs to get busted. But, bet its a phony call. False call sign use, first violation. One way transmissions, broadcasting second, interfrence by intention another.

Say's he's in Erie,Pa.

[wa9cwx]

This is supposed to be a remote base for Echolink ops....

[KB3LIX]

Sounds more like HAL-9000 has gone beserk again.
A boring monologue now about EchoStink.

I caught one other callsign, I'm sure its not legit, but it ID'ed as KC8UMB.

Now, there is some knucklehead whistling on 7.25550. The computer thing just went QRT.

Good riddance !

Here it comes again, DTMF tones.

[KB3LIX]

He's Bacccccckkkkkkkk !!!!!!!!

[KE5FRF]

Well, I tuned over there to listen, and I DO hear something in the background that sounds like a recording. I also hear some CW signals too. My antenna isn't tuned for 40 meters right now, but I am copying the voice. This person has ID'ed?

[w8cbc]

I heard something in 40 last night - it may have been around 7160 kc LSB - that sounded like a television in the background with nothing in the foreground. I thought it might have been a broadcast station except very few SWBC stations do SSB, and none in 41 metres.

[KE5FRF]

I didn't copy all of the CW, but I copied a "d" at the end, this is all right at my noise floor. Is this station IDing in CW?

True, there are some stations on EchoLink that are set up as HF gateways, but control operator privelages are only granted upon proof of appropriate licensure. I myself was granted privelages right after getting my upgrade and before I picked up my own HF rig. I had no luck with the system (the software I found a bit un-user friendly)

I suppose it is POSSIBLE that someone figured out a way to hijack one of these nodes, but I doubt it.

[KE5FRF]

I just Googled N8AD and EchoLink and in fact got THIS (http://knut.wiren.fi/OH2FH/N8AD_EchoBase.html) URL for EchoBase Node N8AD-R.

So, it does in fact look like a bootlegger or some other idiot managed to HACK the system and hijack this node. Unfortunate.

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif ...so once again...all talk and no action.

no one is going to DO any thing...and even if some one DOES...the FCC will stop every thing else they are working on and work on this one situation.

Suuure !! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KD6NIG]

Oh you mean Echolink isn't as secure as they promised it would be? Say it ain't so!

I guess this means the FCC will be shutting it all down tommorrow....NOT.

If anyone gets punished though, it will be the node owner, since from what I'm reading here, hes obviously 'asleep at the switch' and since its his remote, he'll ultimately be responsible for whatever the clown does.

Gotta LOVE internet security!

[ae6yd]

Whoever did this via N8AD's system is a real jerk. I know Len, he's a very nice guy, and I've used his remote base more than a few times.

However, he's not responsible for this jerk. When transmitting from a remote system you become the control operator, and hence liable for the operation of the system.

[N5RLR]

Okay...as loath as I am to get into the middle of a urination contest on the Internet, especially with a hot-button topic such as politics or Echolink...

I just spoke with Len, N8AD, who assured me that the operation observed earlier on 7255.5 was quite aboveboard; it was he who was testing features that he is implementing on his Echolink node. #With identification.

Not meaning to ruffle feathers here, but...experimentation is part of Amateur Radio, is it not? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KD6NIG]

I could be wrong, but I thought a remote worked like a repeater, equal liability for the person operating as well as the 'control operator' who is supposed to throw the off switch if anything odd occurs.

But hey, I could be wrong. Heck I took the information on this thread and immedietely threw him under the bus, so that shows you my knowledge on remote base usage (never have used one myself, personally).

[ae6yd]

N5RLR, that sounds more believeable to me. N8AD knows what he's doing, the thing refuses to go into transmit unless your call is in his database, so unless somebody had hacked into the right account, it'd be difficult to make the thing work.

[N5RLR]

Quote[/b] (KF6CZG @ May 09 2006)]<span style='color:blue'>...N8AD knows what he's doing, the thing refuses to go into transmit unless your call is in his database, so unless somebody had hacked into the right account, it'd be difficult to make the thing work.</span>
So true, Justin. #In fact during my conversation with Len, the subject of hacking came up. #The team that maintains the Echolink infrastructure is well aware of the nefarious sides of both Amateur Radio and personal computing. #If [and this is a very big IF] someone were to gain unauthorized control of an Echolink node, I've a feeling that the problem would not exist for long. #And probably not happen again.

* * * * * * * * * *

Echolink is a tool for Amateur Radio, just as a tuner, SWR bridge, microphone, or key is. #It performs its function as only it can. #And as with any tool, it is mindless and amoral in and of itself.

"And that's the name o' that tune." http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ai4ep]

Dern...and I read some where here on the internet that ---

Echolink was perfect !!

Echolink is flawless !!

Echolink is the amateur radio of the future !!

Well, that is what I read any way.

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (KF6CZG @ May 09 2006,21:37)]Whoever did this via N8AD's system is a real jerk. I know Len, he's a very nice guy, and I've used his remote base more than a few times.

However, he's not responsible for this jerk. When transmitting from a remote system you become the control operator, and hence liable for the operation of the system.
Yes, I also got permission to use that node, if I remember correctly, though as I said before I had difficulty with it. (Not the node itself, but the EchoBase software, which I found a bit un-user friendly as I mentioned before)

I am glad the issue is resolved, and it wasn't malicious hacking. I think remote base operation with VoIP is a brilliant concept, especially when someone is willing to donate their own equipment, antennas, and resources for fellow amateurs to utilize.

Now, Ai4EP (Robert)...

#I hope you realize that all you have accomplished in the last few weeks and months (and perhaps longer) is to show yourself to be a very petty individual. You come onto QRZ with your, frankly irrelevant posts and rants, I suppose with the objective of trying to convince everyone that you are "Mr. Amateur Radio" in the flesh, but instead you look like a total horses arse. If the internet where radio, your posts would be the equivelant of QRM. You never add anything positive to a conversation, and instead go into borderline chaotic rants that seem to have no purpose but to disrupt. What motivates you, sir? I have been very tolerant of you, and made every effort to accomodate you, and welcomed you when I opened up the idea of a NET. But instead, all you have done is poke your stick into the antpile. Our NET idea is meant to be FUN, not some kind of pissing contest.

So, with that, I hope that somehow, someday, you get a life. If you ever need advice on how to have a life, feel free to give me a yell. I am not exactly an expert, but I do OK.
73, Heath

PS. QRZ moderators: I apologize for the content of this post, but this quite frankly needed to be said, IMHO. I understand if you guys feel it needs to be removed.

[KB3LIX]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ May 10 2006,00:24)]Now, Ai4EP (Robert)...

#I hope you realize that all you have accomplished in the last few weeks and months (and perhaps longer) is to show yourself to be a very petty individual. You come onto QRZ with your, frankly irrelevant posts and rants, I suppose with the objective of trying to convince everyone that you are "Mr. Amateur Radio" in the flesh, but instead you look like a total horses arse. If the internet where radio, your posts would be the equivelant of QRM. You never add anything positive to a conversation, and instead go into borderline chaotic rants that seem to have no purpose but to disrupt. What motivates you, sir? I have been very tolerant of you, and made every effort to accomodate you, and welcomed you when I opened up the idea of a NET. But instead, all you have done is poke your stick into the antpile. Our NET idea is meant to be FUN, not some kind of pissing contest.

So, with that, I hope that somehow, someday, you get a life. If you ever need advice on how to have a life, feel free to give me a yell. I am not exactly an expert, but I do OK.
73, Heath

PS. QRZ moderators: I apologize for the content of this post, but this quite frankly needed to be said, IMHO. I understand if you guys feel it needs to be removed.
W-O-W ! ! ! ! !

B-R-A-V-O !!!!!

Standing ovation by the entire audience !!!!

Encore.....Encore......Encore !!!!!!

10 minutes of uninterrupted applause !!!!!

Drinks all around....On the House !!!

[ai4ep]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif was that the short or long version ?

FRF... P M do not go through moderators.

-----------------------

2 reasons I do not get banned

-- I do not get personal like some of the rest of you do...I dont call folks JERKS / JACK RABBITS, and other names. See, you can not control your fingers to keep from doing that, based entirely on the past actions of others. If this were occuring on a radio frequency, some one else could / might be taping both of us and the FCC could judge who is uttering profanity and who is not.

---advertisers want to advertise on a site that has a high total number of " posts ", whether they are relevant or not. The information in the post is not important to the advertiser, they just want their advertisement to be seen. The more post, the better the chance of their advertisement being seen, better chance of a sale, better chance to make money for their company. The advertiser could care less if I said the same thing in 100 posts, they just know that while making those 100 posts, that I am seeing their ad and possibly willing to let the company have some of MY money. The advertiser also knows that folks are reading MY posts, whether they agree with my words or not. The advertiser is hoping that some ( if not all ) of the folks who read the posts ( even those who never make a post theirself) will see their advertisement and possibly BUY an item of their product / business.

It all boils down to the almighty dollar.

I aint calling any one names...you folks are.

I may be bending a few rules, but no one has spoken to me by PM on that level in a long, long time.

My average is 6 posts per day.that is about 40 - 50 per week. 50 times 4 weeks in a month is 200 posts. Of those 200 posts, YOU have to reply to a few, which equals MORE posts. You just have to reply, because your ego will not let you be quiet....based entirely on YOUR past replies to my posts.

Last week, when I did not make any posts at all between Monday and last Saturday, I got about 10 P - M starting on Thursday...asking " where are you EP, folks are missing you " ?
No I dont have to prove it, but you know it is true.

mo latr

No need in telling you folks too much too fast, you may get confused...and print something you may regret. I wouldnt want you to do that.

mo latr. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KI4NGN]

I've told you guys...turn on your ai4ep filter. I did that a while ago and life in this forum has been pleasant ever since.

Back to the topic of this thread...

I have often noted on 7.255 during ECARS activity that it seems someone is often QRMing with the net. I wonder if you guys have it nailed as to the source? Never noted a callsign, but some druid does come on and plays music or computer tones, and while everyone just tries to ignore him, sometimes he does wipe out a contact.

If this is someone who has taken control of an echlink node (I know nothing about echolink), is he able to hear the net and thus intenionally interfere, or is he just an oblivious moron?

Mike, Raleigh, NC

[PE1RDW]

Judging by the site from N8AD the software used sets the transmit and recieve frequentie to the same so if the net can hear the echobase station then the echobase station and therefor the remote user can hear the net.

Conculsion, it's not a software or system fault just a user fault.

[k4lem]

Quote[/b] (N5RLR @ May 09 2006,21:39)]Okay...as loath as I am to get into the middle of a urination contest on the Internet, especially with a hot-button topic such as politics or Echolink...

I just spoke with Len, N8AD, who assured me that the operation observed earlier on 7255.5 was quite aboveboard; it was he who was testing features that he is implementing on his Echolink node. #With identification.

Not meaning to ruffle feathers here, but...experimentation is part of Amateur Radio, is it not? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
[QUOTE]

If that's the case he should be charged with, retransmission of another amateur's communciations, including call sign. He impresionated another.

He made a one way transmission which lasted over one hour. I have it on tape and will be writing FCC.

Maybe he should use a dummy load next time as if he is the owner of the link, his behavior was not legal.

He retransmitted the voice of W3EOP with call sign.

[kj3n]

Heath,

I've told you before, you're wasting your time. He's getting exactly what he wants; a rise out of you or anyone else.

Learn to mentally filter him and your life here on QRZ will be much happier. As long as you respond, you're giving him what he craves so desperately; attention.

Anyone who has managed to achieve over 10,700 posts in less time than it took me to get to 1,200 posts, is (in my opinion) a pitiful, lonely man with nothing meaningful in his life. Sad, isn't it?

[ai4ep]

jja...slow down, you are catching up with me, and you wouldnt want THAT, would you ? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[KI4NGN]

FRF - no need to purchase the filter, all it takes is some mental discipline. When you see ai4ep as the author of a post, don't read, just move to the next post. I've been doing it for a while now and it works great! If everyone just stops reading his posts, then no one will be replying to them (and we won't have to read posts about him!), and eventually he will just go away. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[W0LPQ]

Heath, isn't 8AD the same guy who was on 20M some time ago doing the same thing? Interference to either K1MAN or a Canadian station? 14275 rings a bell..!

There was a QRZ write up about this within the last 2-3 months.

Bill, W0LPQ

[ai4ep]

LPQ --- look it up yourself. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N5RLR]

Alright, the impulsive part of me just begs to step back in...

Quote[/b] (N5RLR @ May 09 2006)]<span style='color:blue'>...Not meaning to ruffle feathers here, but...experimentation is part of Amateur Radio, is it not? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif</span>Quote[/b] (k4lem @ May 10 2006)]<span style='color:red'>If that's the case [W8AD] should be charged with, retransmission of another amateur's communciations, including call sign. He impresionated another.

...He retransmitted the voice of W3EOP with call sign.</span>
Hmm...I was always led to believe that there is no "privacy" on the Amateur bands, and as such any one of us could be recorded by anyone at any time.

For instance, a local TV-news crew doing a story on Skywarn could include audio from a local 2m repeater as part of its story. By your logic, when the video is aired, does this entail "retransmission" of said communications, for which the TV station could be "charged?"

If this were to be the case, then repeaters should be outlawed, because they [b]"retransmit" an Amateur's signal.

Next... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[W0LPQ]

EP, I am not going to look it up, I don't care. I merely mentioned the subject, if that causes you a problem, get over it.

[KD6NIG]

Quote[/b] (N5RLR @ May 10 2006,11:33)]Alright, the impulsive part of me just begs to step back in...

Quote[/b] (N5RLR @ May 09 2006)]<span style='color:blue'>...Not meaning to ruffle feathers here, but...experimentation is part of Amateur Radio, is it not? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif</span>Quote[/b] (k4lem @ May 10 2006)]<span style='color:red'>If that's the case [W8AD] should be charged with, retransmission of another amateur's communciations, including call sign. He impresionated another.

...He retransmitted the voice of W3EOP with call sign.</span>
Hmm...I was always led to believe that there is no "privacy" on the Amateur bands, and as such any one of us could be recorded by anyone at any time.

For instance, a local TV-news crew doing a story on Skywarn could include audio from a local 2m repeater as part of its story. #By your logic, when the video is aired, does this entail "retransmission" of said communications, for which the TV station could be "charged?"

If this were to be the case, then repeaters should be outlawed, because they [b]"retransmit" an Amateur's signal.

Next... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
I'll bite....

Repeaters retransmit transmissions as they are in progress, and said retransmission is initiated by the party being retransmitted.

If what is being said here is true, the retransmission occured without the person being retransmitted initiating said transmission.

Recording someone and retransmitting it without permission isn't the same as the person transmitting purposely into a repeater for the sole purpose of being retransmitted in realtime.

Say that all out loud 10 times real fast.

I think the basis for the 'impersonation' is the fact that the recording was made and allegedly played back by someone other than the party making the original recorded transmission.

I'm definetely not a lawyer, and I don't play one on QRZ either, however, so I have no problem with this being spindled and muitilated at will.

[KC4HGH]

Heath, ignore 'ep...he's attacked me also in another post for reporting lids, and doing something about it. His tactics include DIVISION & DIVERSION and he'll get you off the actual subject. #Eventually, he'll antagonize enough people that he'll alienate himself and NO ONE will respond....

Keep a high level Heath...don't stoop to his level- you'll drown in swill....

[K0RGR]

There are two threads going here, and I didn't see this one before I posted to the other one.

I still suspect there's some confusion. N8AD didn't sound like the kind who would deliberately QRM a net. But, all I know is what I read in the funny papers. K1MAN sometimes sounded sane, too.