Bush: 'Hydrogen is the fuel of the future'

[kg4kww]

I think this is a great idea,but,it shouldn't take years to make it happen.

WEST SACRAMENTO, California (AP) -- President Bush had an Earth Day message for drivers worried about soaring gasoline prices: The nation must move more quickly toward widespread use of hydrogen-powered cars.

Bush: 'Hydrogen is the fuel of the future' (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/22/bush.hydrogen.ap/index.html)

A plan under consideration is to have refuling stations at taco and burrito joints. So, can eat plenty of re-fried beans, tacos and burritos and fill up your car at the same time. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[N6BOA]

Yeah, Bush was in West Sacto today...saw his entourage as I headed out of Sacto, northward. Didn't the Hindenburg run on hydrogen?

[kd5rpo]

KWW: Hydrogen is not methane.

Much of the public has no clue that to produce hydrogen gas, an equal amount of energy must be put into the proccess, as is removed during it's combustion. People think that because hydrogen is sitting there in ordinary water that this the greatest thing since sliced bread.

In truth, electrical energy from coal, natural gas, or to a lesser extent hydroelectric sources would be used to make the hydrogen.

It is only a way to shift energy from one place to another. There is no magic bullet there.

[N6BOA]

Quote[/b] (kd5rpo @ April 22 2006,21:27)]Hydrogen is not methane. #
Who said hydrogen is methane? Oh, kg4ww implied as much, ic...Yes, the hydrogen can be split from the oxygen in water, via electricity. But you're right, making hydrogen is not something that can easily be done on a large enough scale. At least, not at this time. It isn't safe either. I would not wat to be driving a vehicle fueled by hydrogen. There's a suicide jocky for ya! I suspect a way can be found that is both safe and economical, but doubt anything will come of it in the near future. But there is no crisis. We still pay a lot less for fuel than other countries.

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[k4kyv]

Since no machine is 100% efficient, it would take more energy to split hydrogen off from water, than could be produced by combusting the hydrogen. If fossil fuels are used to produce the hydrogen, the pollution is the same, or slightly greater.

But one possibility would be to use solar energy to produce the hydrogen. One of the problems with solar is that the equipment is unwieldy and the energy is intermittent depending on the weather. But producing hydrogen would be the ideal way to store solar energy in a transportable form.

Hydrogen is highly flammable, but so is gasoline. Hydrogen vehicles would require appropriate safety features, just as gasoline and methane vehicles already do.

Producing hydrogen from coal would make the coal more practical as a vehicular fuel, but you would still have the pollution and greenhouse gases from burning the coal, regardless.

The energy to split hydrogen could be produced from nuclear plants, but like fossil fuels, the inherent disadvantages of that source would still be there, intact.

I would say that solar-produced hydrogen fuel would be the only useful way to go.

There is no known source of pure hydrogen waiting to be extracted out of the ground.

[k4kyv]

And I forgot to mention the extreme unliklihood that hydrogen fuel would cost less than petroleum products. It would probably cost much more to produce, even though solar energy is "free."

[VE7NOT]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ April 22 2006,22:52)]But one possibility would be to use solar energy to produce the hydrogen. One of the problems with solar is that the equipment is unwieldy and the energy is intermittent depending on the weather. But producing hydrogen would be the ideal way to store solar energy in a transportable form.
That would put Yuma AZ on the map now wouldn't it? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[al2i]

That guy who tells the tall tales about Area-51 has quite an interesting enthusiasm for safe, hydrogen fueled vehicles. I don't know if his conversion kit is a scam or not, but it appears on the up and up -- at least to a cursory inspection.

Switch to Hydrogen (http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/)

Lazar feels that hydrogen should be loosely bound in a hydride, but he says it best so I will take an excerpt from his web page.

Quote[/b] ]There are materials call Hydrides that absorb Hydrogen like a sponge absorbs water. Typically, the tanks are filled with granulated Hydrides, and Hydrogen is pressurized into the material. Hydrides have many advantages over liquid & gas. One is that the density of the Hydrogen stored in the Hydride can be GREATER than that of liquid Hydrogen. This translates directly into smaller and fewer storage tanks.
Once the Hydride is "charged" with Hydrogen, the Hydrogen becomes chemically bonded to the chemical. Even opening the tank, or cutting it in half will not release the Hydrogen gas. In addition, you could even fire incendiary bullets through the tank and the Hydride would only smolder like a cigarette. It is in fact, a safer storage system than your Gasoline tank is.
Then how do you get the Hydrogen back out? To release the Hydrogen gas from the Hydride, it simply needs to be heated. This is either done electrically, using the waste exhaust heat, or using the waste radiator coolant heat.

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (kd5rpo @ April 22 2006,21:27)]KWW: Hydrogen is not methane. #

Much of the public has no clue that to produce hydrogen gas, an equal amount of energy must be put into the proccess, as is removed during it's combustion. #People think that because hydrogen is sitting there in ordinary water that this the greatest thing since sliced bread. #

In truth, electrical energy from coal, natural gas, or to a lesser extent hydroelectric sources would be used to make the hydrogen. #

It is only a way to shift energy from one place to another. #There is no magic bullet there.
Bingo! Give the man a cookie and put a gold star by his callsign.

[PE1RDW]

There are already hydrogen cars driving around, only sweden has refiling stations that I know of.
Unlike often tought they don't use combustion engines but a fuelcel to convert hydrogen back into electric energy, this process is close to 100% effecient.There are even hybrite cars that instead of batteries use hydrogen to store the energie.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (w5klb @ April 23 2006,00:42)]Quote[/b] (kd5rpo @ April 22 2006,21:27)]KWW: Hydrogen is not methane.

Much of the public has no clue that to produce hydrogen gas, an equal amount of energy must be put into the proccess, as is removed during it's combustion. People think that because hydrogen is sitting there in ordinary water that this the greatest thing since sliced bread.

In truth, electrical energy from coal, natural gas, or to a lesser extent hydroelectric sources would be used to make the hydrogen.

It is only a way to shift energy from one place to another. There is no magic bullet there.
Bingo! Give the man a cookie and put a gold star by his callsign.

You two seem to really miss the point. Just try to turn the blowing wind or shining sun into gasoline.

Hydrogen is an attractive basis of a portable energy economy precisely because it is easily-produced. The relative lack of environmentally damaging side-effects is a nice bonus.

[n2nh]

We've had part of the bus fleet here running on Compressed Natural Gas for years, but they are also using Hydrogen as a clean fuel source:

Quote[/b] ]
Additionally, the Corona facility will have a fuel cell system — an electrochemical energy device that generates electricity for powering motors, lights, buildings, etc. Fuel cells convert hydrogen and oxygen into heat and electricity. This creates power more efficiently, and with less pollution. In fact, the facility is projected to exceed the state code for energy efficiency by 36 percent.

(*linky*) (http://www.mta.info/nyct/facts/ffenvironment.htm)

[al2i]

http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/image005.jpg

[KC2ESD]

I think at least in the short run Ethanol is a better choice now. Its in a Liquid form and easy to make. Hydrogen is a gas and must be extremely cold to be a liquid. Ethanol, I'll drink to that. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[N2ACX]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Doesn't make any difference what is used as an alternative fuel for those of us in the USA. No matter what is used, even if water could be used,those who control the it would then charge the same or more than they are now for gasoline.

This problem should have been addressed back in the early 70's when we had the first indication that OIL could be used as a weapon against a nation.

I blame All the adminstrations and us, the people using the energy from the 70's to the present for not pushing for energy independence AND more energy efficient vehicles.

Now in 2006 we are crying about high OIL costs and millions of grassroots workers are going to be hurt big time financially from this "Energy Hit" we are taking today.

As far as BUSH or any other politicians who are calling for action after the horse has escaped from the barn they will still have only one focus......'skrew' the people where it hurts in the cost of any alternative energy regardless of what is used. The Ethenol nonsense is another joke. We will all see the excuses and lies used to charge high prices even for this, like implemintation, transport, conversion of stations etc etc the list goes on.

The one thing we do know, with greedy sob's and stockholders in charge of the world's energy, no one on the planet will ever have reasonably valued energy. And as long as the majority of the worlds' population follows in long lines like gutless sheep paying and paying while being led to the slaughter we will continue to allow them to strip us of all our monies, properties just so we can afford THEIR pricing of products, pay up america and either revolt by reducing use of or not buying or other lawful means to put a stop to this economic slavery.

My 2¢ N2ACX

[n2nh]

Ummm...

Whatever happened to Cold Fusion??

[KW4MW]

If we switch to hydrogen fuel will the engine noise be at a higher frequency?

BTW - here is one bigass hydrogen engine.

Quote[/b] ]Rocketdyne's Space Shuttle Main Engine operates at greater temperature extremes than any mechanical system in common use today. The liquid hydrogen fuel is -423 degrees Fahrenheit, the second coldest liquid on Earth. When the hydrogen is burned with liquid oxygen, the temperature in the engine's combustion chamber reaches +6000 degrees Fahrenheit - that's higher than the boiling point of Iron.

The maximum equivalent horsepower developed by the three SSMEs is just over 37 million horsepower.

The energy released by three of Rocketdyne's Space Shuttle Main engines is equivalent to the output of 13 Hoover Dams.

Although not much larger than an automobile engine, the SSME high-pressure fuel turbopump generates 100 horsepower for each pound of its weight, while an automobile engine generates about one-half horsepower for each pound of its weight.

Even though Rocketdyne's SSME weighs one-seventh as much as a locomotive engine, its high-pressure fuel pump alone delivers as much horsepower as 28 locomotives, while its high-pressure oxidizer pump delivers the equivalent horsepower for 11 more.

If water, instead of fuel, were pumped by the three Space Shuttle Main Engines, an average family-sized swimming pool could be drained in 25 seconds.

The SSME high-pressure fuel turbopump main shaft rotates at 37,000 rpm compared to about 3,000 rpm for an automobile operating at 60 mph.

The discharge pressure of an SSME high-pressure fuel turbopump could send a column of liquid hydrogen 36 miles in the air

http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/space/propul/SSMEamaz.html

Now strap that sucker to your Geo!

[PE1RDW]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ April 23 2006,16:56)]If we switch to hydrogen fuel will the engine noise be at a higher frequency?
A Hydrogen fuelcell car makes the same sound as an electric car.
The fuelcel itself is soundless, only the electric motor can be heard.

*link to fuelcell website* (http://www.fuelcells.org/)

[KW4MW]

Quote[/b] (PE1RDW @ April 24 2006,09:41)]Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ April 23 2006,16:56)]If we switch to hydrogen fuel will the engine noise be at a higher frequency?
A Hydrogen fuelcell car makes the same sound as an electric car.
The fuelcel itself is soundless, only the electric motor can be heard.

*link to fuelcell website* (http://www.fuelcells.org/)
It was a joke son, you know like when you inhale helium from a party balloon and then talk in that squeaky voice.

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (KW4MW @ April 23 2006,07:56)][quote]Rocketdyne's Space Shuttle Main Engine operates at greater temperature extremes than any mechanical system in common use today. The liquid hydrogen fuel is -423 degrees Fahrenheit, the second coldest liquid on Earth. When the hydrogen is burned with liquid oxygen, the temperature in the engine's combustion chamber reaches +6000 degrees Fahrenheit - that's higher than the boiling point of Iron.

The maximum equivalent horsepower developed by the three SSMEs is just over 37 million horsepower.

The energy released by three of Rocketdyne's Space Shuttle Main engines is equivalent to the output of 13 Hoover Dams.

Although not much larger than an automobile engine, the SSME high-pressure fuel turbopump generates 100 horsepower for each pound of its weight, while an automobile engine generates about one-half horsepower for each pound of its weight.

Even though Rocketdyne's SSME weighs one-seventh as much as a locomotive engine, its high-pressure fuel pump alone delivers as much horsepower as 28 locomotives, while its high-pressure oxidizer pump delivers the equivalent horsepower for 11 more.

If water, instead of fuel, were pumped by the three Space Shuttle Main Engines, an average family-sized swimming pool could be drained in 25 seconds.

The SSME high-pressure fuel turbopump main shaft rotates at 37,000 rpm compared to about 3,000 rpm for an automobile operating at 60 mph.

The discharge pressure of an SSME high-pressure fuel turbopump could send a column of liquid hydrogen 36 miles in the air
Yep, seen the demo several times. The SSME was developed here at Rocketdyne in Canoga Park, CA and continuously tested at the Alpha Test site on Chatsworth Peak. Every time they tested one it was like an earthquake, except lasting longer. Rattled windows for miles.

The sister Rocketdyne facility in Chatsworth was responsible for all the power generation, conversion and distribution systems for the Space Station, and those operate at 95% overall efficiency beginning with solar energy as the primary source.

One means to making hydrogen for fuel cell powered vehicles: Use electricity, generated by nuclear plants which already exist and don't cause much pollution. They also don't depend on fossil fuels so this will help accelerate our kissing the offshore oil suppliers adieu.

WB2WIK/6

[WD8KDG]

Gentlemen/Ladies/SWL'er/et al

Those who believe in free lunches, I have a bridge for sale. Although I applaud those who at least try.

For nearly thirty years, I worked in the industrial gas business, cryogenic air separation plants and hydrogen plants. The company which I've since retired from produces all of the liquid hydrogen used to launch the shuttle. In other words, I have a clue, or an opinion.

World wide, on the large scale production of hydrogen, methane and steam are heated to 1500 degrees F in a reformer furnace. There are steps before this to remove sulfur compounds, steps after reforming for further reaction, and steps later to remove impurites. No free lunch here, one of the plants I've worked in has its own 32MW steam driven generator to produce the electricity to power the plant. Still have to purchase natural gas, and then there are the green house gases made during the production of H2, such as CO, CO2, NOx, SOx, and the list goes on.

Hydrogen does burn clean, but as you can see, producing it isn't. Although I will admit, the releases from the plants in So-Cal are tightly regulated by the South Coast Air Quality Management Dist.

Several car manufacturers are playing (R&D) with H2 powered cars. I've worked on projects installing refueling stations for such vehicles, even bummed a few rides.

In the end, is H2 cleaner to produce/use than gasoline?At this point in life.........maybe the Amish have the right. As long as the sun shines and the wind blows, nothing will change for them.................

Watched a documentary on PBS about Iceland and their production of H2. They use naturally occuring steam from volcanic sources to turn a steam driven generator. Electricity from the generators is use to produce H2 via electrolysis. That H2 is used to refuel H2 burning cars. Step in the right direction.........?

Mother Nature will sort it out if we don't.

73's
Craig

[n2nh]

OTOH, AS ESD said, Ethanol looks promising. Brazil is producing enough to take care of 50% of the gas (for vehicles) and all their gas has ethanol mixed with it:
Quote[/b] ]While Bush set 2025 as the target date for replacing three-fourths of the oil imported from the Middle East with American ethanol, Brazil already satisfies nearly half of its domestic passenger vehicle fuel demand with ethanol.(* LINK *) (http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/03/10/brazil.ethanol.example.ap/index.html)

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ April 24 2006,08:18)]Every time they tested one it was like an earthquake, except lasting longer.
<span style='font-size:16pt;line-height:100%'>The BIG ONE (http://apsn.awcable.com/1964.htm)</span>

Our rupture took approximately 4 minutes, but it was hard to stand up for about 5 1/2 minutes. We could feel the ground quivering for an additional 20-30 minutes. The thousands of aftershocks continued for over a year, and many of those were the magnitude of the historically largest California quakes.

I was just wondering if you meant a little California quake, or a big Alaskan quake that is dozens of times more energetic?

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (WD8KDG @ April 24 2006,08:51)]In other words, I have a clue, or an opinion.
I am surprised at the repeated preachiness of people who are missing the point. I can make Hydrogen at home with a minimum of equipment using the blowing wind or shining Sun. I cannot make gasoline. Thank you for your attention. Now jiggle the meter!

http://www.davemcgraw.com/Images/clueometer.gif

[WB2WIK]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ April 24 2006,09:08)]I was just wondering if you meant a little California quake, or a big Alaskan quake that is dozens of times more energetic?
I meant a little baby California quake.

I don't want to live where there a great, big ones.

Our little 6.8 or 6.9 in Northridge in '94 was about as big as I'd ever like to see. We had all services restored and everything back to normal 3 days later.

My idea of a disaster.

WB2WIK/6

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ April 24 2006,09:29)]My idea of a disaster.
That's OK Steve. The post was my idea of 6-lander harassment. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[2E0GYD]

When bush saud 'hydrogen' I thought he ment the hydrogen in hydrocarbons, not the clean type http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

its quite easy to make your own hydrogen, just get water, 2 pieces of wire, and a battery, the wire connected to the positive gives off oxygen, the negative electrode gives off hydrogen - simple, on a small scale.

just make the electricity that splits the water molecule solar or wind powered, then its polution free completely.

73 de Rick 2E0GYD

[kg4kww]

This is a good idea that should be given a chance. This idea of Hydrogen, will keep us from being dependent on ARAB OIL. So, don't complain about it and get with the program. Also, i suggest that you push for methane gas deposit stations too. Methane is a good fuel too.

[kl7aj]

Quote[/b] (N6BOA @ April 22 2006,21:20)]Yeah, Bush was in West Sacto today...saw his entourage as I headed out of Sacto, northward. Didn't the Hindenburg run on hydrogen?
Interesting thing about the Hindenberg. It probably wasn't the hydrogen that was the real problem...it was the flammable rubber compounds in the skin. Modern materials would make a perfectly safe hydrogen dirigible. If you look at the old newsreels of the Hindenberg, it's a very bright, luminous flame....which Hydrogen is NOT.

[WB2WIK]

Speaking of the Hindenberg, I was considering buiding my own modern-day Zeppelin.

I thought I'd fly it over large outdoor events and use a one million-LED display panel installed on the bottom to post advertising.

We could call it the &quot;LED Zeppelin.&quot; http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Give me time...

[W2ILP]

Hydrogen produced by the electrolysis of water takes electrical energy...but it can be produced at any place where hydroelectric energy is cheaply available and transported to the end user. The big question is how to produce small efficient automobile engines that safely run on hydrogen. I'm not sure that that can be done but I'm not going to say it is impossible either.

Gasoline is a liquid that we call &quot;gas&quot;.
Hydrogen is a gas that comes from the electrolysis of liquid water. I don't know if there will be hydrogen stations where we can pump real gas that isn't a liquid unless we just use it to inflate tires.

w2ilp (Inflated Liquid Pumps)...might be obsolete as gassers.

[K6UEY]

If you really want to know the present state of the Art on Hydrogen Fuel Cells go to the UK.

While the US citizens have been spending their energy Bushbashing and holding Socialist Rallies and lending support to Osama Bin Laden and his merrymen, the Brit's have been making use of the time developing Hydrogen Fuel Cells.

That is not to say we could not catch up,but it might intefere with watching a Football game or a Basket ball play off.
What we need to do is import some engineers from India and put them to work developing Hydrogen use.

All our to be engineers are majoring in sports,because Engineering is TOO HARD !! Although there are some female Engineers who look promising,but the male students prefer sports !!

Hydrogen is about the most practical and effecient fuel to extract energy,but as mentioned the rapid method of extracting Hydrogen is costly fuel wise, and the methods which use less energy produce Hydorgen at a much slower pace.

Since the 21st century woman is a stranger to the kitchen,put them to work in the lab,devoloping an easier and more effecient way to generate Hydrogen. # #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[N9XR]

Fuel Cell Paper (http://www.efcf.com/reports/E13.pdf)

This is pretty interesting from a European PhD:

Quote[/b] ]Hydrogen is promoted (e.g. [1]) as a new source of energy. This is certainly
nonsense, to be clear. It is true that hydrogen is the most abundant element of
our universe, but it exists only in chemical compounds like water, fossil fuels or
living biomass. Furthermore, the abundance of hydrogen cannot be a sales
argument, because hydrogen atoms are not destroyed by their energetic use.
The gas is obtained by splitting water with the help of electrical energy into
hydrogen and oxygen. The invested energy is later recovered, unfortunately
only partially, when hydrogen and oxygen are recombined and the original
amount of water is regained. Hydrogen is not an energy source, but an energy
carrier much like water in a hydronic heating system. Hydrogen may be extracted from natural gas by steam reforming or from water
by electrolysis. In both cases, more energy is needed to liberate
hydrogen from its chemical bounds than can ever be recovered by oxidizing the
energy carrier for energy release. The equation: &quot;hydrogen plus air = energy
plus drinking water&quot; reflects simplified views of laymen. It seems that the
energetic base of hydrogen generation and use are not properly considered in
the ongoing hydrogen debate. Where does the energy come from to make
hydrogen?

Bush may be onto something here developing a low fuel efficiency plan for the way of the future.

That's our &quot;C-Student&quot; President.

[N6WK]

So Orv,
Since the US helps the UK out in so many ways, don't ya think they will freely share what they learn from it all with us? Or, do they still consider us the &quot;Colonies&quot; ??
73,
gordon

[N6WK]

Orv,
I'd be willing to give up my yellow square, if you would be willing to give up one of yours. What say ?? So how was your easter? You guys tired of Hogging all the rain yet??

73,
Gordon

[kf6rdn]

I would think there's enough hot air here on QRZ to power anything! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Hey it's nice to see a FRIENDLY banter between Orv &amp; Gordon again.. Hope it stays friendly. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[WD8KDG]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ April 24 2006,09:14)]Quote[/b] (WD8KDG @ April 24 2006,08:51)]In other words, I have a clue, or an opinion.
I am surprised at the repeated preachiness of people who are missing the point. #I can make Hydrogen at home with a minimum of equipment using the blowing wind or shining Sun. #I cannot make gasoline. #Thank you for your attention. #Now jiggle the meter!

http://www.davemcgraw.com/Images/clueometer.gif
Dream on Alice, wonderland is just around the corner. On a scale large enough to have H2 to power anything. Your solar cells will cover acres of ground, wind mills will cost more money than loans will cover.

Using electrolysis, the water has to be pure enough the electrodes will not foul, add more money/electricity for the purification system. Add more solar cells/ larger windmill.

If you get this far, how do you store it?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif Sun doesn't shine all day/ wind doesn't blow all the time. Gotta have a compressor!!! Add more solar cells/larger windmill to run compressor.

Now if you got enough H2 to sell, gotta get it to the customer. Add pipeline.......another compressor.....more solar cells/larger windmill...........

Yes, I can tell you have done this before and thought out the entire production/delivery.

Yes, you can make a test tube of H2. But what can you do with it?

73's
Craig

[N9XR]

Quote[/b] (WD8KDG @ April 25 2006,02:52)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ April 24 2006,09:14)]Quote[/b] (WD8KDG @ April 24 2006,08:51)]In other words, I have a clue, or an opinion.
I am surprised at the repeated preachiness of people who are missing the point. I can make Hydrogen at home with a minimum of equipment using the blowing wind or shining Sun. I cannot make gasoline. Thank you for your attention. Now jiggle the meter!

http://www.davemcgraw.com/Images/clueometer.gif
Dream on Alice, wonderland is just around the corner. On a scale large enough to have H2 to power anything. Your solar cells will cover acres of ground, wind mills will cost more money than loans will cover.

Using electrolysis, the water has to be pure enough the electrodes will not foul, add more money/electricity for the purification system. Add more solar cells/ larger windmill.

If you get this far, how do you store it?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif Sun doesn't shine all day/ wind doesn't blow all the time. Gotta have a compressor!!! Add more solar cells/larger windmill to run compressor.

Now if you got enough H2 to sell, gotta get it to the customer. Add pipeline.......another compressor.....more solar cells/larger windmill...........

Yes, I can tell you have done this before and thought out the entire production/delivery.

Yes, you can make a test tube of H2. But what can you do with it?

73's
Craig
If people can think of Hydrogen as a gas that is used like a battery which will store energy efficiently, but it is inefficient to charge, and volatile and difficult to store, then you will have a better idea as to what we are actually talking about here.

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (n9xr @ April 24 2006,22:30)]That's our &quot;C-Student&quot; President.
You are much too kind. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (WD8KDG @ April 25 2006,08:52)]Dream on Alice, wonderland is just around the corner.
Quote[/b] (n9xr @ April 25, 2006,11:47)]If people can think of Hydrogen as a gas that is used like a battery which will store energy efficiently, but it is inefficient to charge, and volatile and difficult to store, then you will have a better idea as to what we are actually talking about here.

Storage and Transport
Hydrogen can be stored safely in hydride material at room temperature and modest pressure at a density greater than liquid hydrogen. It is released by heating the hydride up to low oven temperatures. It is much safer and easier to deal with than LNG or crude oil.

Production
The possibilities are limited only by enviro-luddites and our regulation-crazy society. Want hydrogen to fuel every car in California? Simply use the energy in False Pass. The Army Corps of Engineers did a study on it years ago and the findings were awe-inspiring.

Want enough hydrogen to fuel the entire country? The winds on the North Slope of Alaska could do it with ease.

But maybe you guys are right. NOT about physics or chemistry, but rather about attitudes. Renewable energy sources from just one state could power all of the country's energy needs, but the United States will probably go &quot;third-World&quot; before doing anything that might involve sensitive environmental issues.