Why Are Republicans Dealing With Commies?

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] ]In 2005, China ran up a $203 million trade surplus with us, selling us seven times as much as she bought from us. That trade surplus with America is responsible for 100 percent of her economic growth. As a result, her dollar reserves are the largest on Earth, approaching $1 trillion.

Quote[/b] ]China ... is investing in warships, submarines, modern fighter-bombers and space technology. As there is only one great air and sea power out there, there is no doubt at whom this buildup is directed.

(*OPINION - LINK*) (http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/columnists/guests/s_446096.html)

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (ad4mg @ April 22 2006,07:37)]Oops! Wrong catagory OM! Talk and Opinions - Amateur Radio

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
You know, that's been happening a lot lately. I click on one line and another opens up. Refreshed pages are slow to load and I think that's the problem. Sorry. Hope that this can be moved to the proper place. Either that or the pope done put the hex on me. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KC9ECI]

Moved to the more appropriate forum.

Tom
One of the QRZ moderators.

[KG6JTB]

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ April 22 2006,04:32)]Quote[/b] ]In 2005, China ran up a $203 million trade surplus with us, selling us seven times as much as she bought from us. That trade surplus with America is responsible for 100 percent of her economic growth. As a result, her dollar reserves are the largest on Earth, approaching $1 trillion.

Quote[/b] ]China ... is investing in warships, submarines, modern fighter-bombers and space technology. As there is only one great air and sea power out there, there is no doubt at whom this buildup is directed.

(*OPINION - LINK*) (http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/columnists/guests/s_446096.html)
Did you forget about Clinton? He started it!

Now we are addicted to cheap imports, al the while China controls it's currency and our trade imbalance swells.

I got an idea, stop buying crap at Walmart and see how that works out for you...

Dave
KG6JTB

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] ]How does China achieve her success? By keeping her currency cheap -- China is able to offer Chinese goods at fire-sale prices to U.S. consumers, while the cheapness of her currency keeps U.S. goods priced out of China's market.

Despite blustery U.S. protests, the arrangement continues because both nations see their interests served.

It was our capitalists who were the first and most enthusiastic hosts of Chinese President Hu Jintao on his visit to America.

If you have been following this story the last few days, you have probably noticed how often U.S. interests have mentioned China's economic policy. But not a word has been said at this summit that would question in any way China's human rights issues.

If the US is willing to spend thousands and thousands of millions of dollars to bring American-style democracy to the middle east, why the double standard regarding China?

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (KG6JTB @ April 22 2006,08:08)]Did you forget about Clinton? He started it!

Now we are addicted to cheap imports, al the while China controls it's currency and our trade imbalance swells.

I got an idea, stop buying crap at Walmart and see how that works out for you...

Dave
KG6JTB
Not so fast...

The seeds for this were sewn long before the Clinton administration. I worked for a high-tech company in the early 80's that moved all of it's manufacturing to the Far East. This was a full decade before Clinton became president (not that I think the president is to blame).

You're right about the cheap imports, though. In the name of competitiveness, many companies have had to go for the cheap labor. It's either that or close the doors.

We in the U.S. have enjoyed a "free market" for many, many years, but in a lot of ways it's been a closed free market, with U.S. labor competing with U.S. labor. With the global labor market mostly "wide open" now, I wouldn't expect good things here in the U.S. And I can't imagine a single thing that would turn this around.

Somewhere along the line we've confused capitalism with consumerism and today, we're drowning in our own success.

73, Rob

[w3sy]

Republicans deal with Commies every day. All they have to do is look over to the other side of the aisle.

HAW!!

Out.

[W5HTW]

Though the knowledge is easily obtained, many people are not aware of a few things regarding China, Russia and the alledged "End of the Cold War." Information is readily available from government web sites.

Three years ago, China had approximately 10 nuclear-armed ICBMs targeted at, and capable of reaching, US cities. It was said then, in a national intelligence estimate, (non-classified) that by 2020 they could have 50 such missiles pointed at us.

Chinese agents operate in this country with some degree of freedom. While they are interested in industrial targets, they are very much involved in military targets as well.

China censors broadcasting, as well as the internet and newspapers.

China is still very much a dominant Communist nation, and is actively approaching Super Power status, and may actually be considered one.

Meanwhile, again according to unclassified information available on government web sites, Russia has more spies in the United States now than it ever did during the "hot" Cold War days. Part of the reason, of course, has to be that it is far easier to get into the US today than it was then. Russia is slipping rapidly away from its toying at Democracy's door, and returning to a government controlled society, including the media and the economy. Russia is rebuilding its nuclear forces as well, often at the cost of its economy.

While we pursue trade with these nations, and we should, we need to also realize their motives are not the same as hours. Ours are economic power and theirs are both economic and military.

Once again I point out, when in the 1980s our leaders told us "No Soviet missiles are pointed at the US" they were telling us missiles were detargeted, but we did not understand that. We thought they were removed, stored, destroyed. Not so. Simply the targeting information was taken off the missile control systems. But it was still stored on computers attached to the missiles by cables, and they could be "re-targeted" in under ten minutes.

Of course, we did the same thing. At first. Then we actually deactivated many (but not all) of our missile sites. We physically removed the missiles, stored them, and even sealed the underground silos with concrete.

Today we deal economically with this nations. We must. And that can help, for just today Russia and Iran have announced an agreement that MAY shift much of Iran's nuclear enrichment processes to Russian territory, in an attempt to prevent this nuclear issue from escalating into a hot war. There is no guarantee Iran is going to cut back its own enrichment process, but this is a step in the right direction. Probably Russia has ulterior motives for this, mostly economic, for Iran will certainly trade oil and/or money for this project.

The Cold War was and is a fox. For a while it slipped into a sheepskin, but that skin is now wearing thin, and is slipping off in places, revealing some foxy fur beneath.

Ed

[k4kyv]

But they no longer control nearly half of Germany, all of Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Estonia, Hungary and whatever is in the former Yugoslavia, plus their Satellite "republics" have broken off from the empire, and even parts of Russia itself such as Chechnya (sp?) are trying to split off. And I doubt that Marxism is their prime motivation to empire any more; it is more like oil, radical Islam and the international economy (the same things that motivate US and China). I suspect they are reverting back to something more like pre-Bolshevik Russia, potentially a greater threat than the old Soviet Union if they still possessed their far-flung united empire.

Non-Marxist nukes are just as deadly as the Marxist ones.

I think invoking Marxism and the cold war into the present world wide conflict is a non-issue.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (n2nh @ April 22 2006,04:32)]Quote[/b] ]In 2005, China ran up a $203 million trade surplus with us, selling us seven times as much as she bought from us.
Multiply the 203 million by a thousand. Their trade surplus was running 203 million about every 8 hours or so. To our credit, we have the largest stockpile of empty shipping containers ever.

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (KC9ECI @ April 22 2006,08:51)]Moved to the more appropriate forum.

Tom
One of the QRZ moderators.
Dankt. Gracias. Merci. Thanks Tom.

Good to see you in your 'official' capacity. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[KA7RRA]

I want China to buy BOEING AIRPLANES

overtime= big pay check

[G0GQK]

What's all this about America wanting only economic power and not military power ?
Where have you been the last 60 years?

Why do so many Americans always think if another country does something of which they don't approve the US are victims.?

Does The Peoples Republic of China, (your big man forgot this,) have military posted in every corner of the globe ? #Just think about it for a while, the US has nuclear devices aimed at everyone it regards as evil. There might even be a big one set and primed for Paris, the French aren't very popular across the pond are they, they eat cheese don't they ?

[kb2vxa]

"Did you forget about Clinton? He started it!"

Nope, Nixon, he opened with China and closed with NAFTA and "I am not a crook!"

What does China want? Uncle Mao wants YOU! (And your dollars from Wal Mart divided up with the beaners who work for the Waltons. G'nite John Boy.)

[KW4MW]

Quote[/b] (G0GQK @ April 22 2006,16:26)]What's all this about America wanting only economic power and not military power ?
Where have you been the last 60 years?

Why do so many Americans always think if another country does something of which they don't approve the US are victims.?

Does The Peoples Republic of China, (your big man forgot this,) have military posted in every corner of the globe ? #Just think about it for a while, the US has nuclear devices aimed at everyone it regards as evil. There might even be a big one set and primed for Paris, the French aren't very popular across the pond are they, they eat cheese don't they ?
Ssssshhhhhhhhh - don't piss the wrong person off, those babies can be reprogrammed. # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (G0GQK @ April 22 2006,17:26)]What's all this about America wanting only economic power and not military power ?
Where have you been the last 60 years?

Why do so many Americans always think if another country does something of which they don't approve the US are victims.?

Does The Peoples Republic of China, (your big man forgot this,) have military posted in every corner of the globe ? Just think about it for a while, the US has nuclear devices aimed at everyone it regards as evil. There might even be a big one set and primed for Paris, the French aren't very popular across the pond are they, they eat cheese don't they ?
When Hitler swallowed country after country in Europe, did England not feel threatened? Was that a form of Paranoia? Did the U.S. in turn give military hardware to Germany? And if England did turn to notice, would we have cheekily said, "Why do you want to be the only military power in the world?" I always felt that the hostility to American forces in Europe meant we should've pulled out. It was an enormous drain on our economy and resources. Many have said that the economic prosperity enjoyed here in the '90s was because of the dot coms. The truth of the matter is that it was more likely the lack of cost of keeping hundreds of thousands of military personell in Europe. While most of Europe then floundered, we enjoyed historical prosperity after most were pulled out. Of course I felt that we should pulled out during the cold war and the USSR would've really liked that.

OTOH, the question is "Why Are Republicans Dealing With Commies?"

Would England do that? Oh, sorry, Chamberlin did do that and England realized that was a big mistake. The result was World War II. Now unlike England, who would help us? More importantly, would it even matter?

Yet, that is the situation that exists now. Despite a "Non First Use Policy" promise by China, this is the threat that has already been made to us regarding one of our allies:

Quote[/b] ]Top Chinese general warns US over attack

China is prepared to use nuclear weapons against the US if it is attacked by Washington during a confrontation over Taiwan, a Chinese general said on Thursday.

“If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition on to the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons,” said General Zhu Chenghu.

Gen Zhu was speaking at a function for foreign journalists organised, in part, by the Chinese government. He added that China's definition of its territory included warships and aircraft.

“If the Americans are determined to interfere [then] we will be determined to respond,” said Gen Zhu, who is also a professor at China's National Defence University.

<span style='color:red'>...the Americans will have to be prepared that hundreds . . . of cities will be destroyed by the Chinese.”</span>

Mind you we're not talking of use of weapons by the U.S., just targeting. This statement was made at an organized event, with foreign journalists as the audience.

Being part English as well as French, I love my Cheshire Cheese as well as Brie. And the occaisional Quiche. ;)

Houston, we have a problem.

[N2ACX]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Topic: Why Are Republicans Dealing With Commies?

Why not?

It has nothing to do with republicans, just about every person on the planet including the USA is dealing with them and loving it for the low cost products. Why is this &quot;Spun&quot; into a Republican thing?

If we are opposed to communisim, then don't buy any product , if it's origin is from a communist country.

I love how we, the world in general, love to walk thru mud and then gripe and moan and groan about our boots being dirty.

Toooooo Funny http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif N2ACX

[k4kyv]

Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ April 22 2006,07:34)]Quote[/b] (KG6JTB @ April 22 2006,08:08)]Did you forget about Clinton? He started it!...
Not so fast...

The seeds for this were sewn long before the Clinton administration...
Have you forgotten? Everything that's gone wrong in the world is Clinton's fault.

[k4kyv]

Bush apologized to Hu for the behaviour of the Chinese-American who was following our Constitutional right to protest.

Not only that, but she is now being charged as a criminal. Hu must really feel right at home.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12426832/

[k4lem]

[B]K4KYV, writes &quot;If the US is willing to spend thousands and thousands of millions of dollars to bring American-style democracy to the middle east, why the double standard regarding China? &quot;

Actually democracy never was the goal in the ME. It has been BIG OIL believeing Iraq had trillions of dollars of worth they could get their corporate hands on.

Did you know, the entire cell phone networks in Iraq were handed on a platter without bid to US companies.
Even the Brits had a problem getting near the feed troth.

Then when it was clear no peace and instability, the corporations withdrew letting Bush &quot;hold the sack.&quot;

[wv6z]

Quote[/b] (k4kyv @ April 22 2006,11:17)]Bush apologized to Hu for the behaviour of the Chinese-American who was following our Constitutional right to protest.

Not only that, but she is now being charged as a criminal. #Hu must really feel right at home.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12426832/
Now, I don't know this to be fact, but rumor has it that they plan to run her over with a tank in front of the White House as punishment.

[W2ILP]

The Chinese are buying 80 airliners from Boeing and promising to pay Microsoft for software. We may not like it but we have to believe that the customer is always right. As time goes on in order to survive the economic unbalance it is likely that the United States will become more Socialistic as the People's Republic of China will become more Capitalistic. So don't worry yourselves about Tienanmen Square Just think of all the capitalists that got absorbed by the the People's Republic of China when they took over Hong Kong and Macaw. Commercial business continued as usual. Money speaks louder than protesters.

I never saw any Chinese complain about what the U.S. swat team did in Waco. How can we complain about what mainland China does to folks who want to exercise their rights to exercise their rights to exercise?

w2ilp (I Like Peace) I know I should take a global position as a humanist...but I believe that the Chinese customer isn't always a leftist. Robin Hood stole from the rich and helped the poor. Red China sells to the rich and helps their poor. Their new leaders are engineers who can't be so bad IMHO. I could be wrong, but even if I was, it is now too late to stop friendly trade with China as both China and the U.S. are becoming more dependent on each other.

[K9STH]

Both major parties, as well as several of the &quot;splinter&quot; parties, have been dealing with Communists ever since Czar Nicholas II was overthrown by the Communists in 1917.

Look at all that aid that we sent the old USSR during World War II. This was under Democratic Presidents.

It is just a &quot;fact of life&quot; that politicans have to deal with such people.

Glen, K9STH

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ April 23 2006,23:55)]Both major parties, as well as several of the &quot;splinter&quot; parties, have been dealing with Communists ever since Czar Nicholas II was overthrown by the Communists in 1917.

Look at all that aid that we sent the old USSR during World War II. This was under Democratic Presidents.

It is just a &quot;fact of life&quot; that politicans have to deal with such people.

Glen, K9STH
A two front war was a necessary evil. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Don't know who said it, but that's usually how it works out. It was an uneasy truce, but things got back to normal very shortly after the war. Mind you, Russia will always remember the 30 million killed in that war, but not two other very pertinent things:

1) Stalin &quot;purged&quot; at least as many Russians as did Hitler. Estimates run from 1 to 100 million people. This included his generals and upper echelons in the armed forces just before #2 happened.

2) Russia and Germany were &quot;allies&quot; before the Nazis decided they wanted to exterminate Slavs too.

[K3XR]

Why are Republicans dealing with commies?..what a joke. Slick Willie not only dealt with them, he could not sell them our secrets fast enough.

http://www.fas.org/news/china/1998/h980618-prc11.htm

[N2ACX]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Just another thought, I wonder how this administration would treat the average citizen if we delt with the communists on a personal level, not business, as is being done in Washington?

I can't believe we are &quot;A-Kissing&quot; the backside of this commie leader in China who's only future goal along with abusing and imprisioning his own people for speaking their minds in a peaceful way and who's goal in my opinion is to gather enough of his anti-american buddies, arm them and blow this country off the map.

And we have more businesses here that have been in the news such as Yahoo and Google who are allegedly working with the commies to turn these poor people into the Chinese authorities, and see them serve years in Chinese prison camps most likey being beatin and tortured while there. Think about it..... in my opinion, Our own companies here in america as Chinese Communist sympathizers, namely Ya and Goo, good name I hope those who run Ya and Goo can sleep well at night knowing they are responsible for sending innocent people to prison all to make a few extra bucks.

I must find other e-mail and search clients, these two make me sick. It shows, as history has proven many times, that Money and power knows NO race,color, creeds or loyality to any nation but to the &quot;Nation of the Wealthy&quot;

Remember what these companies can do to the citizens of another country, they wouldn't hesitate to do to you and me if they could make a buck out of it.

73 N2ACX

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (K3XR @ April 24 2006,09:31)]Why are Republicans dealing with commies?..what a joke. Slick Willie not only dealt with them, he could not sell them our secrets fast enough.

http://www.fas.org/news/china/1998/h980618-prc11.htm
Quote[/b] ]Clinton administration officials should have learned something from this. Short of a missile attack, what will wake them up?

Yep, the ever present bwaaaa! we lost in '96 - it's Bubba's fault. Wow, that missle attack came alright. They didn't use computers, they used 757's. It didn't happen to Clinton - who warned Bush about binLaden - but was told IRAQ was the real problem by Bush. Oddly enough, the Soft on Commie Republicans blocked the very investigation they asked for.

One must ask: why?

[AK7V]

While I have extreme moral and ideological problems with the pandering to the vile Chinese government, there is the argument that one peaceful way to end communism and totalitarianism is through heavy economic contact with the US. #As China becomes more economically integrated with relatively free economies like ours, it will &quot;open up&quot; and hopefully lose its ugly, oppressive politics. #As Chinese entreprenuers and a middle class are created, the communist party will have less support.

I'm not sure if this will work - maybe it's more neo-con pie-in-the-sky. #But economic engagement is seen as better than no engagement. #We're confident that our political systems are more attractive and robust than theirs.

[W2ILP]

sth
Any aid that we sent to the USSR was very well spent. If the USSR didn't fight Hitler from the east either the war would have lasted longer or we would have had to drop an A-Bomb on Germany. Then think of the expenses that we would have had cleaning up German radiation, etc.

w2ilp (I Like Peace)...and nations who help end wars quickly.

[K9STH]

ILP:

I didn't make any judgement as to whether or not the aid sent to the Soviet Union was good or bad. My point is that Presidents from both political parties have had to deal with Communists since 1917. Unless there is a major upheaval in China, Cuba, and Venezuela this is going to continue for some time.

Glen, K9STH

[nx6d]

Quote[/b] (K9STH @ April 24 2006,15:04)]ILP:

I didn't make any judgement as to whether or not the aid sent to the Soviet Union was good or bad. #My point is that Presidents from both political parties have had to deal with Communists since 1917. #Unless there is a major upheaval in China, Cuba, and Venezuela this is going to continue for some time.

Glen, K9STH
Venezuela is not a &quot;commie&quot; country.

Chavez isn't a friend to President Bush, but he isn't a &quot;commie&quot;.

Dave WX7B
Sonoma County, CA

[W2ILP]

sth...
I agree but there was a time during the cold war when only one exiled American coul;d deal with the USSR. His name was Armand Hammer. I have his biography. It is well worth reading.

w2ilp (Ignoring Lenin's Policies)...Yep no president wanted to deal with them during our own great deperession.

[K9STH]

Well, technically he is a socialist but that is what the old USSR called themselves (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics).

There is definitely a &quot;fine line&quot; between what is technically communist and what is technically socialist.

Glen, K9STH

[K9STH]

ILP:

Armand Hammer did not have anything to do with the company that produced baking soda for many years. I understand that before his death that he did purchase a few shares just so that those who claimed he owned the Arm and Hammer Company were at least partially correct.

Glen, K9STH

[N6WK]

Ok, Now wait,
I'm confused. Isn't Armand Hammer the same as Arm and Hammer ?? Seems that only a space makes the difference.

Just throwing some humor in here..... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73,
Gordon

[kf6rdn]

I'd really hate to see us go to war with China.

Lucy Liu might leave. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif