Employer SSN# verification database.

[KG6JTB]

I was listening to Tom Tancredo discuss the current house bill on talk radio. One of the provisions of the bill that the Senate bill doesn't include is the requirement that all employers use a little known on-line SSN# verification system as a condition of employment.

Most illegals obtain fake SSN# and other picture ID's to gain employement. The employers need nothing more than to satisfy the requirement that employment was checked (documents appear authentic), but not verified. Mr. Tancredo said only 2,400 quiries have been made on-line to verify SSN#'s, which just goes to show that employers don't really care if their employees are illegal, just as long as the docs look legit.

Here is the government SSN# website (http://www.ssa.gov/employer/ssnv.htm)

Now, if every employer was required to use this system, go back and verify current employees, we would see many illegals be terminated, and would have to return home for lack of employement.

At that point (and all that would need to be added), employers could instruct such unlawful immigrants to the nearest "guest worker" processing center with a new conditional offer of employment. There the worker could get legal status, register, fingerprint, get an ID card, and the employer could withhold a higher local tax from the "guest worker" that could go to fund local infrastructure.

The immigrants would likely require a higher wage to off-set the higher tax they pay as guest worker, thereby leveling the playing fields for U.S. workers who might want manual labor or non-skilled jobs.

Sure, business isn't going to like this, but it's business that is causing the problem.

Dave
KG6JTB

[AC0H]

It doesn't work.
We used that system when doing the hiring in the packing plant I used to work for. Dedicated phone line and modem to dial into the database and verify SSN numbers.

Everybody who was hired went through the same process yet 90-95% of the production workforce were known to be illegal. The social secuity system was never designed to be used as a national ID system.

It's way too easy to abuse that system.

[KG6JTB]

Quote[/b] (AC0H @ April 04 2006,07:52)]It doesn't work.
We used that system when doing the hiring in the packing plant I used to work for. Dedicated phone line and modem to dial into the database and verify SSN numbers.

Everybody who was hired went through the same process yet 90-95% of the production workforce were known to be illegal. The social secuity system was never designed to be used as a national ID system.

It's way too easy to abuse that system.
That was the old, pre-internet days.

From the government website:

Question
How do I access Social Security Number Verification Service (SSNVS)?


Answer
You can access SSNVS through Social Security's Business Services Online (BSO) (www.socialsecurity.gov/bso/bsowelcome.htm). BSO offers Internet services for businesses and employers who exchange information with us. BSO services include:

Registration Services
Electronic Wage Reporting Services
Social Security Number Verification Service
System Requirements



Internet access.
A Web browser, such as Internet Explorer or Netscape Navigator. (Browsers must be set to accept cookies and support 128-bit encryption. This is the default setting for most browsers.)
Registration Requirements
You must be a registered BSO user. It takes about two weeks from the time you register until you receive your activation code and can begin using SSNVS. Each person who uses SSNVS must register to obtain a personal identification number (PIN) and password.


NOTE: A PIN is a personal ID, not a company ID; therefore, each person who uses SSNVS must have his/her own PIN and Password. This also applies to third-parties, such as payroll service companies. You can register once in your own company's name and then perform verifications for your clients.

How to Register
1. Go to the BSO Welcome Page (www.socialsecurity.gov/bso/bsowelcome.htm) and select "Registration."
2. Select the I Accept button. This will open a registration form.
3. After completing the form, select the Register button. BSO will verify your identity against our records and display a PIN. Make note of the PIN because you will need it to use BSO services, including SSNVS.
4. After receiving your PIN, log in with your new PIN and password. When the BSO Home Page opens, select the Request Access to BSO Services link. A page will open with a description of the services. Choose Social Security Number Verification Service (and others if applicable). You'll receive confirmation that we have received your request and that we will send the activation code(s) to your employer usually within two weeks.

NOTE: If you request access to more than one BSO service that requires an Activation Code, a different Activation Code will be sent for each access type requested.
If you already have a BSO PIN and password, you can get access to other BSO services by selecting Request Access to BSO Services from the BSO Home Page.

Hours of Operation
SSNVS normally operates during the following hours:
Monday - Friday 5:00 a.m. to 1:00 a.m. Eastern time
Saturday 5:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Eastern time
Sunday 8:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Eastern time

More information about SSNVS
(http://www.socialsecurity.gov/employer/ssnv.htm)

SSNVS Handbook (http://www.ssa.gov/employer/ssnvs_handbk.htm)
Includes step-by-step instructions and the file format for batch files.

Business Services Online (http://www.ssa.gov/bso/bsowelcome.htm)
To register and use SSNVS.

[AC0H]

The access method doesn't mean squat.

The only changes in the system have been to use 128 bit encryption that comes in every standard web browser and move the access from dial up to internet.

The database is useless if any shmoe can go to the local SSN office or worse yet call in to get a duplicate social security card without having to produce an old card. Your social security number is just about useless as a form of ID.

It's the same old system repackaged to look like they've actually done something.

[kk7ue]

I think such a system would work if states and the feds would disallow the deduction employers get for paying wages to illegals. Otherwise, I havent heard any other workable solutions. Certainly none from Mr. Stover yet http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[KG4CGC]

Consider also that they are starting to use your SSN and mine, not just the one their legal relative has, etc etc etc.

[ae4fa]

And this is Social Security's problem because . . . ?

So some illegal uses my SSAN. His employer sends in money from both the employer and the employee. Money that the illegal will never collect on.

Employer also sends in the withholding tax. Money that the illegal will never see again even if he has deductions that would otherwise net him a refund.

Okay, so I might get a letter from the IRS asking why I didn't declare that income - and those payments - on my return. Simple answer takes care of that. Maybe a statement from my employer or a comparison of employee ID photos. No problemo.

So, the only problem remaining is that the IRS has got all this extra tax money they don't have to refund any portion of, and the Social Security system has all this extra money that nobody will ever collect benefits on.

Could be worse.

[KG6JTB]

No, the SSN# is verified against name, address, and other information. It's not just stolen SSN#'s, but forged or false ones. The employers aren't allowed to acertain if it's authentic, and the government doesn't check for validity. That is the problem.

Look, if private credit card companies can create account numbers with excellent security measures, so should our governement when it comes to identification for employement purposes.

Dave
KG6JTB

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] ]Look, if private credit card companies can create account numbers with excellent security measures, so should our governement when it comes to identification for employement purposes.

Careful, your getting dangerously close to suggesting a national ID system. Every ACLU miscreant in the country would be fighting over who gets to file suit first. If you listen close you can hear the howling even now.

I agree with the premise though and think we do need an ID system of some sort. Maybe something with biometrics of some sort.

Depending on the SS system for reliable, secure identification just won't work. The system was compromised years ago.

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (AC0H @ April 05 2006,11:28)]Careful, your getting dangerously close to suggesting a national ID system. Every ACLU miscreant in the country would be fighting over who gets to file suit first. If you listen close you can hear the howling even now.
Don't look now, but the National ID thing passed almost a year ago. It will be a part of everybody's state driver's licenses in 2008.

If I recall, it's voluntary, state-by state, just like lowering the drinking age was voluntary. If your state doesn't want to do it, all you have to do is give up a significant amount of your federal highway funding.

Real ID linky. (http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+will+affect+you/2100-1028_3-5697111.html)
Check the date on the article. Did Bush sign the bill? It was a rider on a military spending bill. Of course he signed it! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Edit: H.R. 418 -- read it. (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.00418:)
Edit 2: Of course, I meant raising the drinking age.

73, Rob

[KG6JTB]

Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ April 05 2006,10:54)]Quote[/b] (AC0H @ April 05 2006,11:28)]Careful, your getting dangerously close to suggesting a national ID system. Every ACLU miscreant in the country would be fighting over who gets to file suit first. If you listen close you can hear the howling even now.
Don't look now, but the National ID thing passed almost a year ago. #It will be a part of everybody's state driver's licenses in 2008.

If I recall, it's voluntary, state-by state, just like lowering the drinking age was voluntary. #If your state doesn't want to do it, all you have to do is give up a significant amount of your federal highway funding.

Real ID linky. (http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+will+affect+you/2100-1028_3-5697111.html)
Check the date on the article. #Did Bush sign the bill? #It was a rider on a military spending bill. #Of course he signed it! # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Edit: #H.R. 418 -- read it. (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.00418:)
Edit 2: #Of course, I meant raising the drinking age.

73, Rob
National I.D. is fine with me. I'm not worried about big brother. What's to worry?

The government already knows everything about me. I file taxes.

So they issue me a new card with a new number, perhaps a retnal scan, and then nobody can pretend that they are me.

So what!?! Isn't that a good thing?

Dave
KG6JTB

[kd5rpo]

Here is the problem: The IRS purchased a great software program which checked all W2 forms and company money sent in for each worker against other information.

The IRS was able to track down 1 million illegal imigrants and SS-fraud workers this way each year. The government agencies shared the information when needed.

The Bush administration was lobbied by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce 1615 H St NW Washington DC 20062-2000

They asked that the program be terminated because of the burden to business. The software was then transferred to the The National Student Loan Data System (NSLDS).

Ironically much of the burden has been shifted to the employers rather that the government being able to handle it in an efficient manner. In a Neo-con world this works. because the paperwork can take forever.


Now instead of getting aliens out of the country they use it to get back money from students.

[al2i]

Here is an idea: re-elect nobody.

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (KG6JTB @ April 05 2006,19:31)]Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ April 05 2006,10:54)]Quote[/b] (AC0H @ April 05 2006,11:28)]Careful, your getting dangerously close to suggesting a national ID system. Every ACLU miscreant in the country would be fighting over who gets to file suit first. If you listen close you can hear the howling even now.
Don't look now, but the National ID thing passed almost a year ago. It will be a part of everybody's state driver's licenses in 2008.

If I recall, it's voluntary, state-by state, just like lowering the drinking age was voluntary. If your state doesn't want to do it, all you have to do is give up a significant amount of your federal highway funding.

Real ID linky. (http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+will+affect+you/2100-1028_3-5697111.html)
Check the date on the article. Did Bush sign the bill? It was a rider on a military spending bill. Of course he signed it! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

Edit: H.R. 418 -- read it. (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.00418:)
Edit 2: Of course, I meant raising the drinking age.

73, Rob
National I.D. is fine with me. I'm not worried about big brother. What's to worry?

The government already knows everything about me. I file taxes.

So they issue me a new card with a new number, perhaps a retnal scan, and then nobody can pretend that they are me.

So what!?! Isn't that a good thing?

Dave
KG6JTB
Well, I never said it was bad, but time will tell. At a minimum, here in Colorado, it will mean renewals every 8 years instead of 10, and will probably mean at least one "in person" visit when we finally got our state government to allow DL renewals by mail.

It all depends on how the information is used, and I'm inherently distrustful of government. Not because I "have something to hide" but because I don't believe the government always acts in our best interest.

RPO mentions the IRS... Seems there was just a big flack over the IRS wanting to make it okay for paid tax preparers to sell tax return information. Is nothing sacred anymore?

On the surface, it looks like the Real ID program has the potential to close some of the illegal immigrant loopholes where government services are concerned. Without the ID, you won't be able to get any federal services (and won't be able to board a plane, either). And in typical fashion, the costs of implementation have been shifted to the states.

Good thing? I suspect we'll know in 2012 or so. I predict a mixed bag (but that's a slam-dunk prediction). In any event, it's worth reading, because it WILL affect YOU if you live in the U.S.

73, Rob

[W5HTW]

I am, and have long been, for a national ID system. Our Constitution guarantees States' Rights, but we have to remember how many states there were when that was written, and how the internet was used back in the 1700s. Plus telephones, television, highways, aircraft, and hundreds of other things our founders did not bother to consider. If we are to be a NATION in the global system we cannot avoid, instead of 50 separate entities trying to pull apart, we need some "national" actions be taken. One of those is the National ID, and another might even be a National Driver's License (the CDL is already a model for that.) And certainly our NATIONAL election, that is for President, should be consistent nationwide, in format, date, and candidates. Congressional elections would remain up to the states.

As already pointed out, all the information on each of us that a national ID would provide is already in US governmetn computers. We simply need to put it to use to help make our nation stronger.

Ed

[KF0RT]

Quote[/b] (W5HTW @ April 06 2006,07:21)]As already pointed out, all the information on each of us that a national ID would provide is already in US governmetn computers.
Well, sort of. Almost. If you don't drive and have never been arrested, the likelihood of your photo being in a government computer is pretty small. I'm not aware of any federal agency that routinely collects photos of citizens for any purpose other than criminal (or possibly passports). State, yes.

It's surprising that the requirements don't include a real "proof-positive" form of ID such as digital fingerprints or DNA. Gee, wouldn't that make crime fighting a lot easier?

73, Rob

[ac3p]

Quote[/b] ]If we are to be a NATION in the global system we cannot avoid, instead of 50 separate entities trying to pull apart, we need some "national" actions be taken.

I dunno. I think we should get 50 votes in the U.N.
The old CCCP had that deal and I am sure they had national id papers for everyone.

The SSN Validation works this way.

The number is checked against #your First Name, Middle Name, Last Name, Date of Birth, Place of Birth, Mother's Name and Father's Name.

A score is given for each match. The higher the score the greater possibity you have the correct individual.

[kb2vxa]

Jesse Jackson speaking on the Daly Show has it right for a change. We brought them here to exploit them and now when it's gotten out of hand we whine about it. Like my mother used to say, "You've made your bed, now lie in it!" It's the greedy, unscrupulous employers to blame for all of it and it's been going on for a LONG time. I first recognized the problem on a trip to Michigan in 1965 when I saw all those brown skinned cherry pickers. Soon afterwards Chavez was hailed as a hero and it's been going downhill ever since.

Money talks, BS walks, politicians give lip service while big money business lines thier pockets. For every measure there is a countermeasure and the only one who gets hurt is YOU when you find yourself replaced by an exploited illegal immigrant working for peanuts. When you're out there looking for a job you'll find these words ringing in your ears, you're "over qualified".

In case you're wondering where our border went, ask a Canadian and he'll reply with an acronym, NAFTA. Don't mind his cussing, to the Canuks it's a dirty word coined by Richard Nixon who as you remember initiated trade with China making Wal Mart profitable exploiting the Chinese and employing Mexicans thereby putting Americans out of work.

Carlos Mencia has this beaner way of making fun of White Americans and he's right, you made your bed now lie in it you greedy bastards!

Now tell me, you really didn't see this coming a LONG time ago?