Iran: High-speed underwater missile test-fired

[kg4kww]

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) -- Iran announced its second major new missile test within days, saying Sunday it has successfully fired a high-speed underwater missile capable of destroying huge warships and submarines.

Iran: High-speed underwater missile test-fired (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/04/02/iran.missile.ap/index.html)

[W0UZR]

If Iran is that much of a bigger threat than Iraq, then I wonder why Bush isn't lobbying for war in Iran.

[KD4LEI]

Still wonder why we develop all kinds of wierd stuff out in Area 51?

The Iranians had news reports of "UFO" type craft flying around their airspace within the last year or so. Don't tell me it's aliens. We got some stuff developed out in Area 51 that is being used to mess with the Iranian's

I am also pretty sure we knew about this underwater missle for sometime, so I am not really surprised.

[KC2ESD]

I still think if the USA goes to war with Iran the USA will clean Irans clock in no time at all. Iran is lucky I'm not a Air Force General because I would in event of war order five MOAB bombs dropped on Terahn with each bomb written on them "Pay backs are a B****" for the Hostage takings in 1979.

[W0LC]

Really believe that stuff to start with? Wasn't the first time some idiot from over in that region made boasts without proof.

[n8yx]

Old news...'prior art'.

The Russians have had a so-called "rocket torpedo" in their sub fleets for years.

Shkval - from the Federation of American Scientists' website (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/shkval.htm)

We've developed counters for the device, one of which is a shipborne, extremely powerful sonic transducer that collapses the supercavitiation envelope around the projectile's nose...thus causing it to go out of control and destroy itself.

...nothing to see here; move along...

[K8ERV]

I thot that at that speed water had the consistency of solid concrete. It sure does when I hit it.

TOM K8ERV Montrose Colo

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (K8ERV @ April 03 2006,05:39)]I thot that at that speed water had the consistency of solid concrete.
The key to making this design work is supercavitation. IOW, a bubble zone around the torpedo's nose.

What you get is in essence a shock wave which pushes water out of the way.

To destroy the weapon, one needs to make the water around it '...as hard as concrete...', so to speak. This can be done by collapsing the ensonification region which envelops the nose. High-powered sonics are one way to accomplish the task; there are others.

[N2ACX]

From what I have heard on the 'reliable news media' Iran is trying very hard to have a conflict with the USA as well as the rest of the world to fullfill some prophesy.

As I see it Iran poses more of a threat today for world peace since WWII. These people must be stopped at all costs.........bar none. What a shame the people on this planet cannot get along with anyone.

Again, the leaders of another nation are going to lead their people right into death and destruction.I am sure many of the people of Iran want nothing to do with this and just want to live and raise a family like any other normal human being. Most people in most nations at the grassroots level want nothing to do with conflicts.

It would appear that if the leaders of nations want war, death and destruction........then let Them send every member of their families First including all relatives, into Harm's Way......I bet there would be no wars....cept for the really crazy fanatics like the radical Islamic problem that confronts the world today.

just my 2.5 ¢ worth 73 Gary N2ACX

[wa4brl]

1. Underwater missile = TORPEDO

2. If Iran WANTS a conflict to fufill a prophesy, the world should stand down an deny it to them.

[KD4LEI]

Quote[/b] (wa4brl @ April 03 2006,03:42)]1. #Underwater missile = TORPEDO

2. #If Iran WANTS a conflict to fufill a prophesy, the world should stand down an deny it to them.
Turn the whole country into the largest glass surfaced area on the planet and deny them the chance to get into a war.

I am still for the people to turn against the ruling mulahs and put an end to this madness they have over there.

[KD6NIG]

Torpedo, eh?

Well, first the Iranians might want to work on submarine detection technology, since from what I understand we have some submarines that can be so quiet they actually can be detected because you look for a LACK of noise, not actual noise.

So, they can test all the fancy weapons they want, but the bottom line is, they still have to target the thing to sink another submarine. If they take a noisy submarine and load it with these torpedos, it will probably be sank before they can get one out of the tube towards one of ours, if we went to a war footing. Getting into range to even launch the weapon is the hardest thing sometimes, because even while you're hunting, you could very well be hunted at the same time.

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ April 03 2006,10:12)]If they take a noisy submarine and load it with these torpedos, it will probably be sank before they can get one out of the tube towards one of ours, if we went to a war footing.
Go read my link (to the FAS website).

The device is designed to be used as a 'revenge weapon', meaning that it is fired along the bearing lines of any incoming torpedos. It will close with its target far faster than, say, a Mark 48 ADCAP or a Swordfish will.

There is no such thing as a 'stealthy' torpedo. All of them make enough noise to be detected, provided that your sonar gear is sensitive and can filter background noise adequately. Most gear built in the last decade or two will finger an ADCAP - even if it's operated in low-speed mode. Compressed-air launch transients are a different matter altogether; they're loud enough that even a post-deaf Russian system can pick one up.

Additionally, there's a minimum distance from which a torpedo can be safely fired at another vessel. You do not want the seeker head going active and targeting its launch platform; it could ruin your whole day. That minimum distance takes a bit of time for even a high-speed fish to traverse; more than enough for the Shkval crew to have a reverse launch bearing computed, a solution set and the device fired...

[KD6NIG]

Quote[/b] (n8yx @ April 03 2006,10:46)]Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ April 03 2006,10:12)]If they take a noisy submarine and load it with these torpedos, it will probably be sank before they can get one out of the tube towards one of ours, if we went to a war footing.
Go read my link (to the FAS website).

The device is designed to be used as a 'revenge weapon', meaning that it is fired along the bearing lines of any incoming torpedos. It will close with its target far faster than, say, a Mark 48 ADCAP or a Swordfish will.

There is no such thing as a 'stealthy' torpedo. All of them make enough noise to be detected, provided that your sonar gear is sensitive and can filter background noise adequately. Most gear built in the last decade or two will finger an ADCAP - even if it's operated in low-speed mode. Compressed-air launch transients are a different matter altogether; they're loud enough that even a post-deaf Russian system can pick one up.

Additionally, there's a minimum distance from which a torpedo can be safely fired at another vessel. You do not want the seeker head going active and targeting its launch platform; it could ruin your whole day. That minimum distance takes a bit of time for even a high-speed fish to traverse; more than enough for the Shkval crew to have a reverse launch bearing computed, a solution set and the device fired...
So this is a suicide weapon?

Basically if they are going to wait for someone to fire on them, then they have to hope they can evade also.

Don't we have torpedoes nowadays that can be fired, directed in a roundabout path, then "armed" and begin to seek from another heading? I know that someone could probably hear the launch though also, so thats a concern.

I'm definetely not an expert, probably should do a bit more readin' on the subject....

[kl7aj]

Maybe we need to drop a "test missile" on Tehran.

[KW4MW]

Quote[/b] ]The Iranian-made underwater missile has a speed of 223 miles per hour, said Gen. Ali Fadavi, deputy head of the Revolutionary Guards' Navy.

I have to believe that this is a near surface speed since sea pressure increases with depth. #It would seem to me that there is a specific depth where the water pressure would either cause the missile motor to flame out or destroy the combustion chamber. #

Maybe that's why the footage shown on the news showed the missile / torpedo traveling near the surface. #

I think that the VLA system (Vertical Launch ASROC) system would still be preferable. #A booster rocket puts an airborne torpedo on target within seconds - yep, the sub sonar can hear the launch, can definitely hear the fish hit the water but that happens a lot closer and quicker than a conventional launch. #The torpedo is placed near on target and quickly enters a programmed search mode. #Many torpedoes can out run a sub until their fuel is spent.

[K6BTM]

Not to worry... With tongue firmly in cheek ... http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

The U.S. MILITARY HAS TEAM OF 'UNDERGROUND SUBMARINES' STALKING IRAN

Link (http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/conspiracies/61529)

Those rascals don't stand a chance. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (KD6NIG @ April 03 2006,12:34)]Don't we have torpedoes nowadays that can be fired, directed in a roundabout path, then "armed" and begin to seek from another heading? I know that someone could probably hear the launch though also, so thats a concern.
Yep...but they can be tracked from the compressed air released at launch...and the deeper your launch, the noisier the transient.

The Russian design was to carry a tactical nuclear warhead, most likely in the 1-10kt range. You wouldn't have to hit an enemy sub's hull with that configuration; detonation anywhere in the vicinity will sink your target.

Iran has yet to field a workable tactical nuclear device. My bet is that they're going to set these things up with conventional HE warheads (Octol, Trinitol, etc) in a picket arrangement along their coast, using them in an anti-ship role.

Most of our Navy's escort ships are equipped with anti-missile batteries and CIWS gatling guns for dealing with such things as Exocets, Silkworms, Kingfish and the like. What these systems cannot do is intercept a high-speed, subsurface projectile. Conventional decoys (magnetic 'Nixie' devices, MOSS units, etc) are also useless against the 'Hoot', as it's launched in a point-targeting mode - it doesn't actively seek anything, though it does incorporate rudimentary auto-guidance systems. You fire it at where your target will be in a given period of time, based on its speed...like wing-shooting with a fire-control-solution aimed shotgun.

One can destroy the device by compromizing the 'bubble zone' which surrounds it. High-powered sonics will do this, as will close-proximity explosive detonations.

[kb2vxa]

If they have an under SAND missile it would be something to think about.

[n8yx]

Just read where our middle eastern friends have fielded a second radar-evading anti-ship missile. Their stated purpose for deploying these weapons is to deny U.S.-bound oil tankers passage through the Straights of Hormuz.

Folks, I guarantee one thing: If the Iranians were to attempt economic blackmail through the use of military force especially where oil is involved, things will get real ugly real fast for them. Moreso given the fact that we've got an oilman in the Oval Office...

[AC0H]

Quote[/b] ]Folks, I guarantee one thing: If the Iranians were to attempt economic blackmail through the use of military force especially where oil is involved, things will get real ugly real fast for them. Moreso given the fact that we've got an oilman in the Oval Office...
Not being able to sell their oil will hurt them a damn site worse since we don't buy Iranian oil.

Is somebody (U.N.) going to step up and call these idiots bluff?

[n8yx]

Quote[/b] (AC0H @ April 04 2006,08:02)]Not being able to sell their oil will hurt them a damn site worse since we don't buy Iranian oil.
No, but the Chinese do.

What they're trying to pull off here is a maritime blockade. We all know how that'll go over in the Western world...

[KI4KWR]

what about the boat they are testing too?

[w7lpn]

Russia had this 20 years ago, and it didn't work then either. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KC2OFN]

I wouldn't be too concerned about a rocket propelled torpedo, it would take alot of them to do significant damage to our war machine, however...

one well placed nuclear missile on the other hand could turn America into a 3rd world counrty in less than 60 seconds.

Iran military journal eyes EMP attack on the U.S. (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44017)