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N2NH
03-27-2006, 08:23 AM
Quote[/b] ](From the linky below) The strangest thing, I put a volt meter to my antenna and it read 200 volts - It's not hooked to the grid or hooked to any power supply - I can't figure out where this voltage is coming from - sometimes it is there sometimes it is not - I'm baffled.
I know Art deals in some interesting and some rather non-scientific subjects on his show, but that's an interesting thing to say.

A pic of his antenna farm is at the:
(*linky*) (http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page1220.html?theme=light)

K9KJM
03-27-2006, 09:14 AM
Yeah, No big suprise. # If you hook a voltmeter to ANY fairly large wire array outdoors, Under the right weather conditions, You WILL get some high voltage readings.
Ask old Ben Franklin................... # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

N5TJD
03-27-2006, 10:49 AM
Try it during a lightning storm and watch the voltages.....

KG6YTZ
03-27-2006, 10:52 AM
Quote[/b] (k9kjm @ Mar. 27 2006,01:14)]Ask old Ben Franklin................... # # http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
As long as I don't have to shake hands with Old Ben Lucas. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Don't get it? Google it. Trust me - it's funny.]

W5HTW
03-27-2006, 12:02 PM
I've seen some pretty awesome arcs in transmitter tank circuits when the transmitter wasn't connected to primary power, but unfortunately for the guy reaching into it, it was still connected to a 1600 foot 3-wire rhombic. This was a 10 KW AM transmitter, with a tank coil maybe a foot or more in diameter. Said engineer decided to use an insulated rod to move a link, but he got his hand a dab too close to the coil. Though his injuries were not life threatening, he was taken to the hospital for treatment of some muscle tremors and for observation, and was kept overnight.

"Not connected to the grid." Nope, it sure wasn't. But he was a dab woozy for a day or two. The arc leaped about two inches to grab him.

I've been hit by those "not connected to the grid" antennas, too, though not that badly. One time after watching an arc on a coax feedline (the SO239 was mounted in a Plexiglas panel and the arc was to the frame of the transmitter, where it came from a link-coupled output circuit) on a cold European afternoon, I decided to unscrew the PL259.

I tried insulated plier, so I could unscrew the PL259. Another "not a good idea."

Disgusted, I tried wire cutters to cut the coax. Apparently I wasn't thinking too clearly as that was not going to solve the problem. Still another "not a good idea."

Then I fixed it, with no damage to the coax, and no further damage to me! I took a bare wire, fastened it to a bolt on the transmitter frame, then wrapped it around the coax near the connector. Then, using a short piece of wood, I pushed the wire up the coax until it touched the connector. Voila! Of course, the transmitter was off. Had to remove the wire to operate it.

Yeah. "Not connected to the grid." All it takes is a bit of low humidity, some cooler temperatures, and a dab of wind, not even a lot of wind.

In such weather, solid state rigs of today should be disconnected from the antenna. Old tube rigs didn't have as much of a problem.

Measuring the voltage on an antenna, though, is not always very easy, but it can go quite high. A LOT higher than 200 volts. Being static, it has extremely low current, but it can still hurt. And off that rhombic, it hurt that fellow a whole lot. Nothing permanent, but he learned to ground the antenna terminals before going inside the rig.



Not a good idea.

WA2ZDY
03-27-2006, 12:24 PM
Field Day 1975, we had a hydrogen balloon (another story in itself) holding up about 500 feet of wire - straight up. I made the mistake of grabbing hold of the wire. 13 year old stupidity perhaps but a valuable learning experience just the same.

AC0H
03-27-2006, 01:18 PM
It's the Aliens!! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

KC7YRA
03-27-2006, 02:20 PM
Come to Wyoming where the bardeb wire fences go for miles. On a windy day (all of them) you can actually hear the fences arcing. It very creepy when in the middle of nowhere.

Just hit me though. Nasa did an expiriment to see how they could power future space missions. The took a weight and lots of wire and threw it out the spaceship. As it swungaround it generated A LOT of voltage.

Brad

KL7AJ
03-27-2006, 04:09 PM
Quote[/b] (n2nh @ Mar. 27 2006,01:23)]
Quote[/b] ](From the linky below) The strangest thing, I put a volt meter to my antenna and it read 200 volts - It's not hooked to the grid or hooked to any power supply - I can't figure out where this voltage is coming from - sometimes it is there sometimes it is not - I'm baffled.
I know Art deals in some interesting and some rather non-scientific subjects on his show, but that's an interesting thing to say.

A pic of his antenna farm is at the:
(*linky*) (http://www.coasttocoastam.com/gen/page1220.html?theme=light)
Art Bell must be confusing his antenna farm with the Funny Farm.

WB2WIK
03-27-2006, 04:17 PM
Art's not a technical person, and that's evident just by listening to him.

However, it's good of him to pose such questions.

He didn't say what the impedance of his voltmeter was. If it was 50 Ohms, he probably wouldn't have registered any voltage reading at all from his antenna. More likely it was a couple of million Ohms, like a DVM or VTVM. With that, I can peg the meter on the 1000v scale by walking across a carpeted room on a dry day and touching the voltmeter probe without any return connection.

And with such sensitivity, most of my HF wire antennas will indicate residual voltage across their unterminated feedlines in the shack any old time. More during drier weather.

Art took a long time to notice this, I guess. I noticed it when I was a teenaged Novice...

WB2WIK/6

AK7V
03-27-2006, 06:05 PM
My guess is that Art knows this stuff but poses the question to titilate his listeners who don't.

WA5KRP
03-27-2006, 06:24 PM
Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Mar. 27 2006,10:17)]Art took a long time to notice this, I guess. #I noticed it when I was a teenaged Novice...
Actually Art mentioned it directly after the first of his two loops was up in the air. He grabbed hold of the exposed end of the feedline while bringing it into his shack and really got zapped. At that time he said he measured a static charge of 350V. I presume he shunts that to ground through a couple RF chokes to protect his radios.


WA5KRP
Texas

WB2WIK
03-27-2006, 06:39 PM
Quote[/b] (WA5KRP @ Mar. 27 2006,11:24)]
Quote[/b] (WB2WIK @ Mar. 27 2006,10:17)]Art took a long time to notice this, I guess. I noticed it when I was a teenaged Novice...
Actually Art mentioned it directly after the first of his two loops was up in the air. He grabbed hold of the exposed end of the feedline while bringing it into his shack and really got zapped. At that time he said he measured a static charge of 350V. I presume he shunts that to ground through a couple RF chokes to protect his radios.
Probably don't have to do anything, in most cases. HF rigs typically have a LV gas discharge tube wired right across their antenna ports -- at least, mine do. It acts as a nonpolar transient voltage suppressor and should let the charge build up until it breaks down, then it clicks and discharges to zero before it starts building again. That's what it's there for. Some rigs use back-to-back diodes to perform the same function.

I've never had a wire HF antenna that didn't provide residual voltage across the feedline, some more than others.

WA9SVD
03-27-2006, 07:43 PM
Does Art sell seeds from that Antenna Farm? What kind of antennas can I grow on 2/3 acre? (The back 40 are already planted.) Never had much luck with a truck farm, though. They refused to grow.

WB2WIK
03-27-2006, 07:53 PM
I wonder why two loops as described works any differently than one loop of the same perimeter? I can see that by linear loading, the resonant frequency would be lower for two loops, but why is that an advantage?

KA9MGC
03-27-2006, 11:49 PM
Quote[/b] ]As long as I don't have to shake hands with Old Ben Lucas.

I believe that is the infamous Prince of Darkness in the UK. Isn't he the man who supplied lighting to British cars like the Jaguar? When the lights worked intermittently he got that nickname.

WB2WIK
03-28-2006, 12:19 AM
Quote[/b] (KA9MGC @ Mar. 27 2006,16:49)]
Quote[/b] ]As long as I don't have to shake hands with Old Ben Lucas.

I believe that is the infamous Prince of Darkness in the UK. Isn't he the man who supplied lighting to British cars like the Jaguar? When the lights worked intermittently he got that nickname.
I had a '72 XKE, an '84 XJ-6 and a '69 MGB.

All had Prince of Darkness electrical systems. Round and round she goes, whether she'll light, nobody knows. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

I found out that "MG" actually stands for "Mostly Garaged."

The XJ-6 had "inboard brakes." I didn't even know there was such a thing.

WB2WIK/6

KF0RT
03-28-2006, 12:51 AM
More pictures of Art's "farm" can be found here. (http://wind.prohosting.com/ae7op/)

73, Rob

N4AUD
03-28-2006, 01:43 AM
Quote[/b] (KA9MGC @ Mar. 26 2006,17:49)]
Quote[/b] ]As long as I don't have to shake hands with Old Ben Lucas.

I believe that is the infamous Prince of Darkness in the UK. Isn't he the man who supplied lighting to British cars like the Jaguar? When the lights worked intermittently he got that nickname.
Know why the British drink warm beer?

Lucas refrigerators

WA5KRP
03-28-2006, 01:45 AM
A lot of people don't care for Art's schtick, but he's entertained me many a long night. He lets his listeners draw their own conclusions.

As far as ham radio goes, I know of NO OTHER high profile individual that does more to promote the service. Because of him, there are several million people who have heard stories of amateur radio who otherwise may think it's merely something to do with hurricane communications.

I'll bet he rivals or exceeds the League in exposing the public to the good aspects of the amateur radio service.

Obviously, this is my own simple opinion.



WA5KRP
Texas

WA9CWX
03-28-2006, 02:16 AM
KRP,

It is mine too.

Art Bell mentions Ham Radio in an intelligent and easily understood non-nerd manner, whenever it fits in with the format of the program.

I would agree whole heartedly he does more good for Ham Radio with the general public than the ARRL has EVER done, school programs included.
His show is one of the top rated programs on radio.

His guests are nationaly, some internationaly prominant figures in their fields.

Many of the 'technical' people in our hobby use their minds as repositories for memorizing #so called 'facts'. Often the 'thinking' they use is devoid of creativity, imagination, insight, or even simple lateral problem solving. They become linear-minded, dulled to the imagination, mere repeaters of someone elses limited idea of reality.

To people who have this view of 'truth', and use the brain that was so filled with potential at birth in this limited #manner, Art Bell, his show, and everything that goes along with it, is gibberish.
It is not that I disagree with their idea of proper "ideas", #it is simply that I feel sorry for them.

Art Bell has an entertainig show, that often sparks interest, is well presented, and ideas that are well represented by credible people. He throws in the odd waco guest, usually a caller or two from left field, and other occasional sorts, but that is entertainment. It is not meant to be a threat to the fragil minds of the 'fact finding' crowd.

K4LEM
03-28-2006, 02:37 AM
Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ Mar. 27 2006,19:51)]More pictures of Art's "farm" can be found here. (http://wind.prohosting.com/ae7op/)

73, Rob
Looks like Art has a materialism problem. EXCESS, then add some more.

I listened to his show one night for all of twenty minutes. He is a member of the flat earth school I do believe.

Oh, well, I had an Uncle Eddy once who was just like Art.

The DX40 he had as a kid sorta nastalgic. My first station Hall-Scrathers S-38E and DX-40. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

WB2WIK
03-28-2006, 04:17 PM
Quote[/b] (K1ALK @ Mar. 27 2006,18:43)]
Quote[/b] (KA9MGC @ Mar. 26 2006,17:49)]
Quote[/b] ]As long as I don't have to shake hands with Old Ben Lucas.

I believe that is the infamous Prince of Darkness in the UK. Isn't he the man who supplied lighting to British cars like the Jaguar? When the lights worked intermittently he got that nickname.
Know why the British drink warm beer?

Lucas refrigerators
That's not what I heard.

My version is:

"Why don't the British manufacture refrigerators?"

Answer: "Because they can't figure out how to make them leak oil."

My Jaguar mechanic, who grew up in Manchester, told it to me that way...

KF0RT
03-28-2006, 06:02 PM
Quote[/b] (k4lem @ Mar. 27 2006,19:37)]
Quote[/b] (KF0RT @ Mar. 27 2006,19:51)]More pictures of Art's "farm" can be found here. (http://wind.prohosting.com/ae7op/)

73, Rob
Looks like Art has a materialism problem. EXCESS, then add some more.
I dunno... Looks pretty tame to me, for a man of his obvious "funding." Pahrump ain't exactly Holmby Hills, afterall. What he's got invested in ham gear probably wouldn't buy an extra bathroom in some places. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

73, Rob

WB2WIK
03-28-2006, 06:19 PM
It's mostly a big loop and then a tower to hold beams, not much compared to many, really.

But I appreciate anybody who invests time, effort and funds into their antennas, as that really is the place to do it: More bang for the buck than can be accomplished with station equipment.

Art has an interesting loop antenna installed atop his RV (motor home) also. It seems to work well, so I inquired about it and he sent me a photo via e-mail. I think I'll do something similar some day, but haven't yet. At least it's low profile and not a branch breaker like my whips have been...

WB2WIK/6

KG6YTZ
03-28-2006, 07:40 PM
Quote[/b] (KA9MGC @ Mar. 27 2006,15:49)]
Quote[/b] ]As long as I don't have to shake hands with Old Ben Lucas.

I believe that is the infamous Prince of Darkness in the UK. Isn't he the man who supplied lighting to British cars like the Jaguar?
No, it's a song about a guy with... um... sinus problems. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

K4LEM
03-28-2006, 07:49 PM
Quote[/b] (wa9cwx @ Mar. 27 2006,21:16)]KRP,

It is mine too.

Art Bell mentions Ham Radio in an intelligent and easily understood non-nerd manner, whenever it fits in with the format of the program.

I would agree whole heartedly he does more good for Ham Radio with the general public than the ARRL has EVER done, school programs included.
His show is one of the top rated programs on radio.

His guests are nationaly, some internationaly prominant figures in their fields.

Many of the 'technical' people in our hobby use their minds as repositories for memorizing #so called 'facts'. Often the 'thinking' they use is devoid of creativity, imagination, insight, or even simple lateral problem solving. They become linear-minded, dulled to the imagination, mere repeaters of someone elses limited idea of reality.

To people who have this view of 'truth', and use the brain that was so filled with potential at birth in this limited #manner, Art Bell, his show, and everything that goes along with it, is gibberish.
It is not that I disagree with their idea of proper "ideas", #it is simply that I feel sorry for them.

Art Bell has an entertainig show, that often sparks interest, is well presented, and ideas that are well represented by credible people. He throws in the odd waco guest, usually a caller or two from left field, and other occasional sorts, but that is entertainment. It is not meant to be a threat to the fragil minds of the 'fact finding' crowd.
[QUOTE]

Well, I think a lot of his callers are science fascinated, yet science illiterates.

Its too bad many think real science has taken the mystery out of creation, but it actually has added understanding. Any scientist will tell you science does not know all the answers.

Its only when the answer is already rationally known and Art comes along to introduce metaphysics, where none is needed, that's disgusting.
Its like the blind leading the blind further away from the light.

But, I guess if you're blind who needs light? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

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