Why won't God heal amputees?

[wa6ccw]

Here is a great new site from Marshall Brain (the founder of HowStuffWorks.com) that asks the intriguing question:

Why won't God heal amputees?

Located here - http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

At the very least, it's an interesting question... wouldn't you say?

[N9XR]

He does heal head amputees. But sometimes it doesn't turn out so well.http://www.theocracywatch.org/bush_halo5.jpg

[wa6ccw]

Not sure what point you were attempting to make with this..?

[w5klb]

Quote[/b] (wa6ccw @ Feb. 20 2006,07:49)]Not sure what point you were attempting to make with this..?
The only "point" XR has can be resolved by the use of a hat. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[WB2WIK]

I think first, there'd have to actually be a God.

And when he shows up, I'll ask him.

[W2ILP]

Why won't God heal amputees/
Hmmm...He might if they are salamanders....but human amputees might never get a leg to stand on. That's life. It isn't fair that laws of physics and biology aren't always humane. We can not change the laws of science...but we can change the rules of ignorant religions. "Faith healing" may heal faith but not amputees. ..but I don't blame anybodies God.

God doesn't plant land mines ...People do.

w2ilp (Installing Limited Prosthesis)...is the work of men...not Gods.

[K6BBC]

Because he (or she, or it) is an unforgiving, mean, SOB.
bbc

[wa6ccw]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 21 2006,01:18)]Because he (or she, or it) is an unforgiving, mean, SOB.
bbc
So... I take it that you believe in "God"... but protest it's actions (or lack thereof)? #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[al2i]

She is hiding.

God hides in order to send logical minds to hell.

God would would make her existence apparent to logical minds if observable miracles occured. Logically minded people would then follow God's laws, repent and be saved, and subsequently cause over-crowding in heaven when there is so much available space in hell.

This is all casual to the most obvious observer.


http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Feb. 20 2006,18:51)]She is hiding. #

God hides in order to send logical minds to hell. #

God would would make her existence apparent to logical minds if observable miracles occured. #Logically minded people would then follow God's laws, repent and be saved, and subsequently cause over-crowding in heaven when there is so much available space in hell. #

This is all casual to the most obvious observer.


http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Logical female is an oxymoron.

bbc

[K7JEM]

It's obvious that the author of the website has a very limited understanding of God, and for that matter, men.

Joe

[wa6ccw]

Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Feb. 21 2006,12:36)]It's obvious that the author of the website has a very limited understanding of God, and for that matter, men.
Any specifics?

[al2n]

Fine example of taking an arguement and bending the data to suit the desired results.

If you pick and choose bible verses, you can justify most anything you want.

In the book of Genesis, it says that Cain killed his brother Abel.

Couple books later a passage says "Go you and do the same."

Does this mean that God wants us to kill each other? No it does not.

But by taking a passage here and one there, you can kill someone and say that the bible commanded you to do so.

The case presented on that website does the same thing.

[KC0KBH]

I know someone who is missing a good portion of his leg, to a little below his knee. My friend's dad. It got taken off in a grain auger when he was young. If you didn't know he was missing a leg, you couldn't tell, most of the time. He can walk just fine, and can swim just fine. He did buy a four wheeler a couple years ago, and that's helped him a lot, but, he sure can get around fine. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[K7JEM]

Quote[/b] (wa6ccw @ Feb. 21 2006,18:57)]Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Feb. 21 2006,12:36)]It's obvious that the author of the website has a very limited understanding of God, and for that matter, men.
Any specifics?
In the website, the author continually talks about God not answering prayers, people dying, God not being just, etc. On a small scale evaluation of things, some of this seems plausable. But what about the role of "man" in his own destiny? Perhaps God is letting man "do his thing" with minimal intervention, after all, if God corrected all wrongdoing and injustice immediately, we wouldn't have to have any faith, or belief. It would be true knowledge. There would be no "evildoers", as they would all be struck dead at the first show of evil.

It also discounts the eternal nature of things (if you believe in God), as our life here is only a moment in eternity. Decisions we make here can affect our lives; most people don't believe that God will save them if they step out in front of an express train. Good things will continue to happen to "bad" people, and vice-versa. Our reward is not in this life.

This man is truly a "sign seeker", which are talked about at length in the Bible. These people have existed since the beginning of time, right down through today. Jesus had plenty of them in his day too.

Anyway, interesting reading for people who don't know better, don't believe, or have a hard time understanding the role of God in men's lives.

Joe

[ai4ep]

Maybe because it is ...what is in your heart ...that matters most.

It is what you do when no one else is watching .....

[W2ILP]

The heart is a muscle. It is nothing but a blood pump. It has no brains. Most of our brains are in our skulls, but recently scientists found that some peripheral brains are in our stomachs. Now if we don't even know where our minds and thoughts originate by this time and age... how are we supposed to know why God don't heal amputees.

Without a brain your heart might go on beating but you would be in a vegetative coma. If you did anything you wouldn't be there to watch what you are doing, even if you did something that you shouldn't be doing it wouldn't be your fault if you were brainless and relying on whats in your heart to matter.

Yep...The word "heart" is but a false miediphor of our feelings...but that is not to be taken literally. Shakespeare said that life is a brief candle. He only meant that it was LiKE a brief candle because it would eventually burn out. IMHO a person with a bad heart is not necessarily a bad person and who we call a "kind hearted sole" might need a bypass and new shoes.

w2ilp (Ignorant Life Pump)...can not feel the sympathy of a guilty brain. The heart never controls the brain but the brain may cause heart aches.

[KD7ZRT]

Quote[/b] (W2ILP @ Feb. 22 2006,00:13)]Most of our brains are in our skulls, but recently scientists found that some peripheral brains are in our stomachs.
With all respect to Dr. Gershon, I think defining the enteric nervous system as a brain is rather sensationalist. Sure, the ENS develops as an outgrowth of the CNS, and is capable of independent processing, but so is the retina. Reflex and cognition are not the same, even if they look the same physiologically.

The gut is not a brain--and its a good thing too, because it'd really stink to be so full of s**t all the time.

[k6pme]

Quote[/b] (wa6ccw @ Feb. 19 2006,19:51)]Why won't God heal amputees?
Ignorance* is bliss.


*Used in it's proper definition and context.

[KE5FRF]

Have you ever noticed that GENERALLY SPEAKING, those of us who have suffered the most in life tend to become the most faithful or spiritual? As I said, GENERALLY SPEAKING.

What does this say about faith/religion?

You be the judge.

[kc7jty]

They would just go right back to the middle east and get themselves reamputeed? Wouldn't they?

Diane Ibbotson doesn't have a brain. Do you think she would be a good Christian if she did? In her case, a restoration of her brain by God would cause the loss of a good Christian.....am I making any sense?

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (bighfsignal @ Feb. 22 2006,11:17)]Why won't God heal amputees?

Simple. Because is there is No god.
I'm glad we have your decisive opinion on the matter to clarify it for all of us.

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (kc7jty @ Feb. 22 2006,10:13)]They would just go right back to the middle east and get themselves reamputeed? Wouldn't they?

Diane Ibbotson doesn't have a brain. Do you think she would be a good Christian if she did? In her case, a restoration of her brain by God would cause the loss of a good Christian.....am I making any sense?
Sadly JTY you are making sense.

I heard today a Mosque was blown up in Iraq. Churches burned in the south. Embassies torched in Southern Asia and Africa. People dying because of newspaper funnies.

And all this is because of something that there is absolutely no proof exists.

This is a sad world.

K6BBC

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 22 2006,11:09)]I heard today a Mosque was blown up in Iraq.
Yeah. The same one our troops were supposed to stay at least 500 feet away from because they are filthy infidels and it was perfect.

[W2ILP]

If you guys have read my posts you will see that I predicted escalated hostility between the Muslim sects in U.S. occupied Iraq. # I said it was just like the Nazi occupation that instigated virtual war between Polish people and Jews in Warsaw, Poland. #The Poles and Jews had tolerated each other before Hitler's troops attacked #but some of them not only tried to fight the German soldiers...They fought among themselves!

The only solution is for the U.S. to get out of Iraq ASAP...because we are not doing a very good job of maintaining law and order there. #Iraqi soldiers and police which we trained are being attacked and are fighting back not only with insergents...but with each other. #Poles who were supposed to be helping Germans round up Jews were often arming them and turning against the Germans.
Chaos becomes rampant...and as William Pitt said....
--Where law ends tyranny begins.--
I remember that quote because it was chiseled over the entrance of Monroe High school in The Bronx, NY. #It turned out to be appropriate when the neighborhood's ethnicity changed.

Hmmm...I wonder if anyone will be selling golden fragments from the mosque roof on eBay?http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

w2ilp (I Like Peace)

[kc7jty]

Quote[/b] (W2ILP @ Feb. 21 2006,15:06)]The only solution is for the U.S. to get out of Iraq ASAP...because we are not doing a very good job of maintaining law and order there. #
"Sadly JTY you are making sense."

Getting out of Iraq ASAP is too sad (for us) AND makes sense. It will NOT be a choice made by our government, but it WILL eventually come to pass by necessity, just like in Viet Nam.

You think Jane Fonda was bad:
"It is of the utmost importance that we are a total failure in Iraq AND Afghanistan, for it will indeed be the lesser evil to the alternative". me

[wa6ccw]

Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Feb. 22 2006,11:34)]Perhaps God is letting man "do his thing" with minimal intervention, after all, if God corrected all wrongdoing and injustice immediately, we wouldn't have to have any faith, or belief.
With all due respect, you're getting way ahead of yourself here.

We need to establish the actual existence of this mysterious being that you refer to as "God" before we can go about making up excuses for why he/she/it does what it does.

I would venture to guess that if someone were to say something similar to you - but substituted the word "God" with "Zeus" - you wouldn't let them get out of the starting gate without a resolute establishment of such a being.

Am I wrong?

[wa6ccw]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Feb. 22 2006,22:42)]Have you ever noticed that GENERALLY SPEAKING, those of us who have suffered the most in life tend to become the most faithful or spiritual? As I said, GENERALLY SPEAKING.
Absolutely.

[K7JEM]

Quote[/b] (wa6ccw @ Feb. 22 2006,21:19)]Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Feb. 22 2006,11:34)]Perhaps God is letting man "do his thing" with minimal intervention, after all, if God corrected all wrongdoing and injustice immediately, we wouldn't have to have any faith, or belief.
With all due respect, you're getting way ahead of yourself here.

We need to establish the actual existence of this mysterious being that you refer to as "God" before we can go about making up excuses for why he/she/it does what it does.

I would venture to guess that if someone were to say something similar to you - but substituted the word "God" with "Zeus" - you wouldn't let them get out of the starting gate without a resolute establishment of such a being.

Am I wrong?
I'm just responding to the question, as posed by you.

"Why won't God heal amputees"

The question implies that there is a god. If not, why ask the question? Why not make the question "Is there a God".

You didn't do this. You asked a question as if God existed, but just wont heal amputees. My responses are for those who think that there is a God, yet don't understand why He acts as he does.

Joe

[w0aew]

Cuz all them little arms and legs go to Arm and Leg Heaven?

[AG3Y]

I must say in all Christian Love, that some of you are crossing over into the realm of Blasphemy, and if I were you, I would consider very carfully what you are thinking and how you are expressing your thoughts!

Now, that being said, I would like to recommend a book to any of you that have serious questions about God and how He works through trials and difficulties in men's lives, through a process called "Brokeness"

The book by that title is authored by Lon Solomon, pastor of one of the largest churches in the Washington D.C. area, the McClean Bible Church ( VA ) . It tells how he and his wife went through a period of brokeness due to the circumstances brought about by the profound mental retardation of their Daughter.

Rather than the extreme testing caused by her condition destroying their faith, it was used by God to build them up and as a result to make the ministry of that church successful beyond their wildest dreams or imaginations. The book is a great encouragement to anyone who is going through a time of trial or tribulation in their own lives.

Get a copy of the book, and if you can't find it in your area, E-Mail me, and I will see that you get one!

73, Jim

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Feb. 23 2006,13:24)]I must say in all Christian Love, that some of you are crossing over into the realm of Blasphemy, and if I were you, I would consider very carfully what you are thinking and how you are expressing your thoughts! #

Now, that being said, I would like to recommend a book to any of you that have serious questions about God and how He works through trials and difficulties in men's lives, through a process called "Brokeness"

The book by that title is authored by Lon Solomon, pastor of one of the largest churches in the Washington D.C. area, the McClean Bible Church ( VA ) . #It tells how he and his wife went through a period of brokeness due to the circumstances brought about by the profound mental retardation of their Daughter. #

Rather than the extreme testing caused by her condition destroying their faith, it was used by God to build them up and as a result to make the ministry of that church successful beyond their wildest dreams or imaginations. #The book is a great encouragement to anyone who is going through a time of trial or tribulation in their own lives.

Get a copy of the book, and if you can't find it in your area, E-Mail me, and I will see that you get one!

73, Jim
I must say with all secular humanist love, that much of the world believes in, and kills for, imaginary beings.

In reading today’s news, one has to ask oneself, it the human race better or worse for the belief in God?

bbc

[KL7FZ]

Quote[/b] (W2ILP @ Feb. 22 2006,00:13)]Most of our brains are in our skulls, but recently scientists found that some peripheral brains are in our stomachs. #
I propose an experiment. Go sit in a church for several days without eating. See who talks to you the most. Then see who you will answer first. God or your stomach.
I know I have a brain in my stomach. It talks to me a lot. Especially around breakfast, lunch or dinner time. And it is the biggest part of me. I don't dare ignore it!

Arguing about GOD is the cause of almost all of the world's problems. More people have been killed because of "GOD" than because of any other thing or idea.

I have proposed this scenario to my very religious friends. When I die, if there is a GOD, I will kick his butt out and take over running the world. My world will be much better. No wars, no pain, no little kids getting hurt. No "Natural" disasters, etc. Like a supposed loving GOD would do for his "children".
But if there is no GOD, then everthing will stay the same and you will know for sure.


One thing I would change right away, is all the darn hams that can't say 73 or sign off without saying "GOD Bless". Sometimes, multiple times. I have heard several hams go QRT for the night and heard "GOD Bless" at least 5 times in one minute. Geeez!

#Ooops! Got to go. My brain, aka, stomach, is telling me it is time to go. Time to "pass the plate" so to speak!

# KL7FZ
# Watch for me. I may be coming to a church near you. And I may require a tithe of 10% of your ham gear!

[W5HTW]

God will do whatever you want him to. After all, you created him.

Ed

[wa6ccw]

Quote[/b] (K7JEM @ Feb. 23 2006,12:19)]I'm just responding to the question, as posed by you.

"Why won't God heal amputees"

The question implies that there is a god. If not, why ask the question? Why not make the question "Is there a God".

You didn't do this. You asked a question as if God existed, but just wont heal amputees. My responses are for those who think that there is a God, yet don't understand why He acts as he does.

Joe
Fair enough.

But you need to understand that the question (as posed by the author of the website and restated by me) was purely rhetorical in nature.

The point of it all is to get good people like yourself (who believe in God) to open up and give their mind permission to examine into the rationality of theism.

[wa6ccw]

Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Feb. 24 2006,03:24)]I must say in all Christian Love, that some of you are crossing over into the realm of Blasphemy, and if I were you, I would consider very carfully what you are thinking and how you are expressing your thoughts! #
But why would one need to be so "careful", as you put it? Please give your mind permission to think rationally about what you've just said...

You seem to be saying that there is some sort of trancendant - Saddam Hussein type - Creator being out there who "loves" His creation so much that He is going to punish them for thinking incorrect thoughts..?

[wv6z]

Quote[/b] (wa6ccw @ Feb. 18 2006,20:51)]Here is a great new site from Marshall Brain (the founder of HowStuffWorks.com) that asks the intriguing question:

Why won't God heal amputees?

Located here - http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

At the very least, it's an interesting question... wouldn't you say?
As the link is not working, I guess I will just have to guess at it and say He's out of spare parts...... they're on back order...... what they attatch to is obsolete...... He doesn't feel like it...... He's on strike...... He doesn't like you...... He doesn't exist...... He's on vacation...... He has stock in a wheelchair manufacturer...... He has stock in a prosthetic company...... He does exist, but he retired......

anyway, take your pick, it must be one or a combination of the above.

[KL7FZ]

Quote[/b] (ku4my @ Feb. 23 2006,16:24)]As the link is not working, I guess I will just have to guess at it and say He's out of spare parts...... they're on back order...... what they attatch to is obsolete...... He doesn't feel like it...... He's on strike...... He doesn't like you...... He doesn't exist...... He's on vacation...... He has stock in a wheelchair manufacturer...... He has stock in a prosthetic company...... He does exist, but he retired......

anyway, take your pick, it must be one or a combination of the above.
Could it be because he only has rights left?

Or is that Lefts? Right?

My luck, I would get a new leg but put on backwards. But then I could easily kick myself in my butt, for putting forth opinions without a leg to stand on.

But sometimes I think if women's arms were reversed, it would make it easier for them to fasten their bras!

KL7FZ

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (wa6ccw @ Feb. 23 2006,18:16)]Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Feb. 24 2006,03:24)]I must say in all Christian Love, that some of you are crossing over into the realm of Blasphemy, and if I were you, I would consider very carfully what you are thinking and how you are expressing your thoughts! #
But why would one need to be so "careful", as you put it? Please give your mind permission to think rationally about what you've just said...

You seem to be saying that there is some sort of trancendant - Saddam Hussein type - Creator being out there who "loves" His creation so much that He is going to punish them for thinking incorrect thoughts..?
___
The point of it all is to get good people like yourself (who believe in God) to open up and give their mind permission to examine into the rationality of theism.
And explain to me how believing in God is irrational? Show me how your mind is more open...are you open to the possibility that there IS a God?

Jim, AG3Y is not painting a picture of God as evil or vindictive. He is simply stating there are consequences to all actions. this is called LIFE.

Personally, I believe in Jesus Christ, and that he is God. But this spiritual debate does not HAVE to be about a God with any particular name. The God of the Old Testiment was a vindictive God. The Christian God is not a vindictive God. But, if you want the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, you must accept that Christ IS God. Plain and simple (in my belief system)

God will not send locusts or plagues to punish us for or blasphemies, and he'll always be there with open arms to help us in our times of need.

But in the end, when we are at the finale of our life, if we have not accepted Christ and asked our sins to be cleansed, we won't be welcomed into his arms any longer.

simple, really. No different than real life relationships here on terra firma. My door will always be open to my son, no matter how far he strays, but ultimately, he will be the one who pays in the end for not doing right. (this is a hypothetical, my son is only 5)

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (wa6ccw @ Feb. 23 2006,16:16)]Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Feb. 24 2006,03:24)]I must say in all Christian Love, that some of you are crossing over into the realm of Blasphemy, and if I were you, I would consider very carfully what you are thinking and how you are expressing your thoughts! #
But why would one need to be so "careful", as you put it? Please give your mind permission to think rationally about what you've just said...

You seem to be saying that there is some sort of trancendant - Saddam Hussein type - Creator being out there who "loves" His creation so much that He is going to punish them for thinking incorrect thoughts..?
Correct - it's called mind control. After all, what do Jesus types wants most of all - to change your thinking to "save you." The super religious and pious are some of the most arrogant, obnoxious people I have ever encountered.

bbc

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Feb. 23 2006,16:48)]The Christian God is not a vindictive God. But, if you want the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, you must accept that Christ IS God. Plain and simple (in my belief system)

God will not send locusts or plagues to punish us for or blasphemies, and he'll always be there with open arms to help us in our times of need.
Are you joking? The Christian God damns his own children to eternal suffering for not believing in him. That's human arrogance talking and proof enough for me that God either does not exist or is well beyond our understanding. Do you really believe an entity powerful enough to create all of creation would be so petty as to punish one for not believing? Ridiculous. Nonsense. You’re not thinking.

k6bbc

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,19:00)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Feb. 23 2006,16:48)]The Christian God is not a vindictive God. But, if you want the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, you must accept that Christ IS God. Plain and simple (in my belief system)

God will not send locusts or plagues to punish us for or blasphemies, and he'll always be there with open arms to help us in our times of need.
Are you joking? #The Christian God damns his own children to eternal suffering for not believing in him. #That's human arrogance talking and proof enough for me that God either does not exist or is well beyond our understanding. #Do you really believe an entity powerful enough to create all of creation would be so petty as to punish one for not believing? #Ridiculous. #Nonsense. #You’re not thinking.

k6bbc
just because I don't agree with you does not mean I'm not thinking. I've thought about this for 30 years.

Quote[/b] ] or is well beyond our understanding

bingo.

[K7JEM]

Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Feb. 23 2006,14:15)]I have proposed this scenario to my very religious friends. When I die, if there is a GOD, I will kick his butt out and take over running the world. My world will be much better. No wars, no pain, no little kids getting hurt. No "Natural" disasters, etc. Like a supposed loving GOD would do for his "children".

As God, how would you propose to make this happen? Are you going to create "mind control" over the people to keep them in line? Are little kids going to grow up in an insulated plastic bubble to keep them safe at all times? Will food just fall from trees, so that none will starve? Will something save us from drowning as we surf, and fall off the board? If we jump from a tall building will we be gently stopped before we hit ground? Will there be no earthquakes, storms, or inclimate weather? Will it always be 72 degrees?

Somehow I don't envision your world being any "better" than what we have, just more "controlled".

Joe

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Feb. 23 2006,17:39)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,19:00)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Feb. 23 2006,16:48)]The Christian God is not a vindictive God. But, if you want the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, you must accept that Christ IS God. Plain and simple (in my belief system)

God will not send locusts or plagues to punish us for or blasphemies, and he'll always be there with open arms to help us in our times of need.
Are you joking? #The Christian God damns his own children to eternal suffering for not believing in him. #That's human arrogance talking and proof enough for me that God either does not exist or is well beyond our understanding. #Do you really believe an entity powerful enough to create all of creation would be so petty as to punish one for not believing? #Ridiculous. #Nonsense. #You’re not thinking.

k6bbc
just because I don't agree with you does not mean I'm not thinking. I've thought about this for 30 years.

Quote[/b] ] or is well beyond our understanding

bingo.
Did you vote for Bush too?

[wa6ccw]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 24 2006,08:07)]Did you vote for Bush too?
I did. Why do you bring it up?

[K6BBC]

Well, feeling bad about it these days?

[wa6ccw]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 24 2006,08:34)]Well, feeling bad about it these days?
Overall... no.

[al2n]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,17:00)]Are you joking? #The Christian God damns his own children to eternal suffering for not believing in him. #That's human arrogance talking and proof enough for me that God either does not exist or is well beyond our understanding. #Do you really believe an entity powerful enough to create all of creation would be so petty as to punish one for not believing? #Ridiculous. #Nonsense. #You’re not thinking.

k6bbc
Do you punish your kids when they break the rules?

Do you still love them?

Are you willing to forgive them if they say they are sorry?

Yet do you still uphold the rules and give punishment when it is deserved?

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,20:34)]Well, feeling bad about it these days?
I'm not feeling particularly bad either. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (al2n @ Feb. 23 2006,18:46)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,17:00)]Are you joking? #The Christian God damns his own children to eternal suffering for not believing in him. #That's human arrogance talking and proof enough for me that God either does not exist or is well beyond our understanding. #Do you really believe an entity powerful enough to create all of creation would be so petty as to punish one for not believing? #Ridiculous. #Nonsense. #You’re not thinking.

k6bbc
Do you punish your kids when they break the rules?

Do you still love them?

Are you willing to forgive them if they say they are sorry?

Yet do you still uphold the rules and give punishment when it is deserved?
Your logic - well -- there is no logic here.

This is really human ego here. If there is a God, I think its thoughts are far loftier than if I steal a pizza. At least I hope so.

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Feb. 23 2006,18:57)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,20:34)]Well, feeling bad about it these days?
I'm not feeling particularly bad either. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Really, what has he done right in since kicking out the Taiban?

k6bbc
conservative

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,21:11)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Feb. 23 2006,18:57)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,20:34)]Well, feeling bad about it these days?
I'm not feeling particularly bad either. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Really, what has he done right in since kicking out the Taiban?

k6bbc
conservative
Well, let's see.

No terrorist attacks on US soil since 2001. Almost 5 years now.

Turned around a reccession.

Tax cuts.

He's led our nation without soiling any blue dresses, thus restoring some dignity to the office.

I have a good job, own my own home, and have enough spare money to enjoy our hobby and support my family.

Has he done some stupid stuff..you bet.
this Port of Miami thing ranks pretty high on the stupid scale.

But, for the most part, I'm satisfied.

he was a far stretch better than the alternative.

[AG3Y]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,19:53)]Quote[/b] (wa6ccw @ Feb. 23 2006,16:16)]Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Feb. 24 2006,03:24)]I must say in all Christian Love, that some of you are crossing over into the realm of Blasphemy, and if I were you, I would consider very carfully what you are thinking and how you are expressing your thoughts! #
But why would one need to be so "careful", as you put it? Please give your mind permission to think rationally about what you've just said...

You seem to be saying that there is some sort of trancendant - Saddam Hussein type - Creator being out there who "loves" His creation so much that He is going to punish them for thinking incorrect thoughts..?
Correct - it's called mind control. #After all, what do Jesus types wants most of all - to change your thinking to "save you." #The super religious and pious are some of the most arrogant, obnoxious people I have ever encountered.

bbc
A Christian believes that he is absolutely lost and condemned to eternal suffering in hell if he doesn't confess his sins before an all-knowing all-holy God and accept the work that Christ did on the cross by taking our place and suffering for us.

Now, how in the world can a person that truly believes that way be the "most arrogant, obnoxious people that you have ever encountered?" I would really like to know if you truly think that about myself and others that believe the way I do?

If you do, I am not going to ask God to punish you for thinking incorrect thoughts, but I AM going to ask God to forgive you for thinking those thoughts, correct or incorrect that they may be, and I am also going to ask God to forgive ME for giving you reason to think that way!

I believe in God, the loving Heavenly Father that WILL forgive people when they confess the errors of their ways, and ask for that forgiveness! That is why I am not concerned about being condemned to an eternity in Hell!

I hope that you will, some day, too !

73, Jim

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Feb. 23 2006,19:20)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,21:11)]Quote[/b] (KE5FRF @ Feb. 23 2006,18:57)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,20:34)]Well, feeling bad about it these days?
I'm not feeling particularly bad either. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Really, what has he done right in since kicking out the Taiban?

k6bbc
conservative
Well, let's see.

No terrorist attacks on US soil since 2001. Almost 5 years now.

Turned around a reccession.

Tax cuts.

He's led our nation without soiling any blue dresses, thus restoring some dignity to the office.

I have a good job, own my own home, and have enough spare money to enjoy our hobby and support my family.

Has he done some stupid stuff..you bet.
this Port of Miami thing ranks pretty high on the stupid scale.

But, for the most part, I'm satisfied.

he was a far stretch better than the alternative.
I'm glad you did not lose a child in Iraq fighting to give that country to Iran.

You guys and Clinton's sex life. Are you a puritan? Leave it alone. Dignity to the Oval office - what a joke. Bush has killed over 100,000 Iraqis for no reason. They never attacked us nor did they have the capacity to do so. They were not a threat. This Iraq thing came from his ego. Let's see, stain on dress vs. 100,000 dead. I think the stain was harmless -- but apparently not to all you busy body, stick your nose in everybody’s business types.

And I’m glad you have a nice job. Why don’t you come to So. California and talk to construction workers who have lost their jobs to illegal workers that Bush and his business buddies want in this country to drive the price of labor down and continue to destroy labor unions.

You people have been so blinded by his holiness and prolife bull**** that you can’t see this administration for what it is. Corrupt.

bbc

[KE5FRF]

Quote[/b] ]You people have been so blinded by his holiness and prolife bull**** that you can’t see this administration for what it is. #Corrupt.

Us people?


BTW, I am a card carrying United Steel Workers Union member.

I have seen more corruption in my local than you care to imagine.

[al2i]

This forum has turned into a massive Christian bash. The vindictive hate is astounding, and my thoughts are sent to an earlier time...

The crowd's mighty roar fills the colliseum as the little band of Christians face the hungry lions.

[wa6ccw]

Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Feb. 24 2006,10:01)]A Christian believes that he is absolutely lost and condemned to eternal suffering in hell if he doesn't confess his sins before an all-knowing all-holy God and accept the work that Christ did on the cross by taking our place and suffering for us.
Yes, and it's truly sad. The Christian - like the Muslim - has a mind that is locked in a prison of superstition.

Did it ever occur to you that if your God really does exist, He created you exactly as you are? Why then is that your fault and not His?

[wa6ccw]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Feb. 24 2006,10:31)]This forum has turned into a massive Christian bash. #The vindictive hate is astounding, and my thoughts are sent to an earlier time...

The crowd's mighty roar fills the colliseum as the little band of Christians face the hungry lions.
I can't speak for others, but my posts are intended to help not hurt by encouraging people to think outside the dogmatic box.

Your Christians-in-the-colliseum example has been duly noted. But lest you forget that Christians throughout history have done their share of persecution on a much more grandiose scale; i.e., the Inquisitions, Crusades, etc.

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Feb. 23 2006,20:01)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,19:53)]Quote[/b] (wa6ccw @ Feb. 23 2006,16:16)]Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Feb. 24 2006,03:24)]I must say in all Christian Love, that some of you are crossing over into the realm of Blasphemy, and if I were you, I would consider very carfully what you are thinking and how you are expressing your thoughts! #
But why would one need to be so "careful", as you put it? Please give your mind permission to think rationally about what you've just said...

You seem to be saying that there is some sort of trancendant - Saddam Hussein type - Creator being out there who "loves" His creation so much that He is going to punish them for thinking incorrect thoughts..?
Correct - it's called mind control. #After all, what do Jesus types wants most of all - to change your thinking to "save you." #The super religious and pious are some of the most arrogant, obnoxious people I have ever encountered.

bbc
A Christian believes that he is absolutely lost and condemned to eternal suffering in hell if he doesn't confess his sins before an all-knowing all-holy God and accept the work that Christ did on the cross by taking our place and suffering for us.

Now, how in the world can a person that truly believes that way be the "most arrogant, obnoxious people that you have ever encountered?" #I would really like to know if you truly think that about myself and others that believe the way I do? #

If you do, I am not going to ask God to punish you for thinking incorrect thoughts, but I AM going to ask God to forgive you for thinking those thoughts, correct or incorrect that they may be, and I am also going to ask God to forgive ME for giving you reason to think that way!

I believe in God, the loving Heavenly Father that WILL forgive people when they confess the errors of their ways, and ask for that forgiveness! # That is why I am not concerned about being condemned to an eternity in Hell!

I hope that you will, some day, too !

73, Jim
Jim,

You are friend and I respect you. But please don't ask for my forgiveness. That to me is arrogant because I have done nothing here to be forgiven for. Frankly, it's a bit insulting.

I respect your right to believe anything you want. I would fight for that right if it came down to it. My issue is keeping religion out of the business of the state. Bush said he talk to Jesus before he bombed the hell out of Iraq. He implied he was doing God's work. Now that is arrogance. If I killed 100,000 people after thinking I had talked to God, I'd be in a padded room.

But frankly, I suspect Bush's faith is just pandering to the less than educated.

bbc

[KL7FZ]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Feb. 23 2006,20:31)]This forum has turned into a massive Christian bash. #The vindictive hate is astounding, and my thoughts are sent to an earlier time...

The crowd's mighty roar fills the colliseum as the little band of Christians face the hungry lions.
Dave For me it is not vindictive hate, but rather astonishment that thinking, rational, scientific beings could believe such nonsense.
Also, pity for the folks who cannot believe enough in themselves or accept responsibility for themselves to the point that they need to lean on some imaginary GOD.

And Christians are generally the first to get indignant and threaten others when you impugn their "Savior".
Isn't "Onward Christian Soldiers" one of their favorite songs?
If lions ate Christians, and GOD made lions, then does it not follow that GOD was to blame for the dinner?

Hey, where have you been? Have not heard you on the air.

Steve KL7FZ

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Feb. 23 2006,23:29)]Hey, where have you been? Have not heard you on the air.
He's been busy watching cheesey horror films.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,23:31)]Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Feb. 23 2006,23:29)]Hey, where have you been? Have not heard you on the air.
He's been busy watching cheesey horror films.
I have been living a frozen horror, stuck in a two-day blizzard that takes two more days to dig out of... ...and looking for a "boxlet" that is appropriate for mailing my favorite horror film to the evil, sickeningly twisted director.

[KL7FZ]

I'll bet Benny Hihn could grow'em a new leg right there on the spot!

That guy is the absolute worst and most offensive character of the genre.
If you have seen the investigative reports about him you would realize what a charlatan and ripoff that idiot really is.

And to see the crowds of thousands in the poorer countries flocking to him for help. Makes me mad as hell!

#As they say on two meters here "God Bless".
# KL7FZ

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Feb. 23 2006,23:42)]As they say on two meters here "God Bless".
See? Now you are picking on one of the nicest local hams?!

BTW, I now need a 19" rack again, so I'll see you next week sometime.

[KL7FZ]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Feb. 23 2006,23:38)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,23:31)]Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Feb. 23 2006,23:29)]Hey, where have you been? Have not heard you on the air.
He's been busy watching cheesey horror films.
I have been living a frozen horror, stuck in a two-day blizzard that takes two more days to dig out of... # #...and looking for a "boxlet" that is appropriate for mailing my favorite horror film to the evil, sickeningly twisted director.
Dave That sounds like the plot of a cheap horror movie itself.
A little boxlet, that once fed a diet of cheap horror films, grew and grew until it ate the oilfields and all the workers there who could not get away because of the blizzard.
Sounds like a song I heard once... "You better watch out for the boxlet that ate Kuparak".
KL7FZ

[K6BBC]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Feb. 23 2006,23:38)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,23:31)]Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Feb. 23 2006,23:29)]Hey, where have you been? Have not heard you on the air.
He's been busy watching cheesey horror films.
I have been living a frozen horror, stuck in a two-day blizzard that takes two more days to dig out of... # #...and looking for a "boxlet" that is appropriate for mailing my favorite horror film to the evil, sickeningly twisted director.
Can't you just go to the local Starbucks for a hot cup of coffee?

[KL7FZ]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,23:49)]Quote[/b] (al2i @ Feb. 23 2006,23:38)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,23:31)]Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Feb. 23 2006,23:29)]Hey, where have you been? Have not heard you on the air.
He's been busy watching cheesey horror films.
I have been living a frozen horror, stuck in a two-day blizzard that takes two more days to dig out of... # #...and looking for a "boxlet" that is appropriate for mailing my favorite horror film to the evil, sickeningly twisted director.
Can't you just go to the local Starbucks for a hot cup of coffee?
He probably is out right now doing his own version of "Dances with Caribou".

[KL7FZ]

Quote[/b] (al2i @ Feb. 23 2006,23:44)]Quote[/b] (KL7FZ @ Feb. 23 2006,23:42)]As they say on two meters here "God Bless".
See? #Now you are picking on one of the nicest local hams?! #

BTW, I now need a 19" rack again, so I'll see you next week sometime.
Living in a herd of Caribou and you have to come to me for a "rack"?

How about another version of Roger Miller's tune "You Can't Rollerskate in a Caribou Herd".

Or that musical answer to the treehuggers concerns about the caribou "They Herd it through the Pipeline".

Call me when the nightmare is over.

[w0aew]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,21:06)]But frankly, I suspect Bush's faith is just pandering to the less than educated.

bbc
That's where most of the votes probably come from.

The money that supports him comes from the cynical types who maintain their positions by manipulating the great unwashed.

[k0ro]

I am a christian, by choice, and I enjoyed the link. He laid out his case very well, and while I do not agree with him, I'm really not inclined to go into the reasons in this forum; while my thoughts might encourage some, I think they would do little (positive) for anyone who has it set in his or her mind that either (1) there is no god, or (2) this god, supposing there is one, is not behaving in a manner that I deem moral or good, or that I would behave if I were in its (his/her) place.

That said, to me the most telling factors about this exposition were his conclusions. His entire "heaven on earth" concept had me rolling: it was theoretical communism revisited. If in the imaginary heaven no one has more than anyone else, then in our heaven on earth we would redistribute our goods and resources so that all had an equal share. Has he been reading "Rainbow Fish?"

I still remember a comment by one of my history professors at Rutgers: "I believe in original sin, not because I am a practicing christian--I am not--but because I have found no better explanation for (or predictor of) human behavior."

His view of the nature of mankind weakens, I believe, the rest of his argument. The acceptance of humans as largely creatures of selfishness, convenience and expediency would have bolstered, in my opinion, his argument.

I am one of those who view all morality as merely human convention (I would rather have a society where I might be punished for murdering someone than a society where there were no such punishment, but my own risk of being murdered was far higher than it currently is) in the absence of an external standard or lawgiver. I believe the natural extension of his view is to live a life that maximizes one's temporal (notice that I did not say immediate or material) happiness, without regard for my effect on others whom I did not value. We see this ethos among some elements of human culture.

I enjoyed his article, understand how his hypothesis that god is imaginary provides a very good fit to his evidence, yet in the end reject it because (1) it is at great odds with my experience and (2) his basic understanding of human nature is, in my opinion, not simply flawed but contradicted by what can be empirically known of this nature.

Regards,
Art

[kc7jty]

I shot the sheriff...but I didn't shoot no amputee.

[AG3Y]

Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 24 2006,00:06)]Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Feb. 23 2006,20:01)]Quote[/b] (k6bbc @ Feb. 23 2006,19:53)]Quote[/b] (wa6ccw @ Feb. 23 2006,16:16)]Quote[/b] (AG3Y @ Feb. 24 2006,03:24)]I must say in all Christian Love, that some of you are crossing over into the realm of Blasphemy, and if I were you, I would consider very carfully what you are thinking and how you are expressing your thoughts! #
But why would one need to be so "careful", as you put it? Please give your mind permission to think rationally about what you've just said...

You seem to be saying that there is some sort of trancendant - Saddam Hussein type - Creator being out there who "loves" His creation so much that He is going to punish them for thinking incorrect thoughts..?
Correct - it's called mind control. #After all, what do Jesus types wants most of all - to change your thinking to "save you." #The super religious and pious are some of the most arrogant, obnoxious people I have ever encountered.

bbc
A Christian believes that he is absolutely lost and condemned to eternal suffering in hell if he doesn't confess his sins before an all-knowing all-holy God and accept the work that Christ did on the cross by taking our place and suffering for us.

Now, how in the world can a person that truly believes that way be the "most arrogant, obnoxious people that you have ever encountered?" #I would really like to know if you truly think that about myself and others that believe the way I do? #

If you do, I am not going to ask God to punish you for thinking incorrect thoughts, but I AM going to ask God to forgive you for thinking those thoughts, correct or incorrect that they may be, and I am also going to ask God to forgive ME for giving you reason to think that way!

I believe in God, the loving Heavenly Father that WILL forgive people when they confess the errors of their ways, and ask for that forgiveness! # That is why I am not concerned about being condemned to an eternity in Hell!

I hope that you will, some day, too !

73, Jim
Jim,

You are friend and I respect you. #But please don't ask for my forgiveness. #That to me is arrogant because I have done nothing here to be forgiven for. #Frankly, it's a bit insulting.

I respect your right to believe anything you want. #I would fight for that right if it came down to it. #My issue is keeping religion out of the business of the state. #Bush said he talk to Jesus before he bombed the hell out of Iraq. #He implied he was doing God's work. #Now that is arrogance. #If I killed 100,000 people after thinking I had talked to God, I'd be in a padded room.

But frankly, I suspect Bush's faith is just pandering to the less than educated. #

bbc
Well, BBC, I also respect you and consider you to be a friend. I have several friends with totally diametrically opposing views to my own, so consider yourself to be part of the club ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

It is good that we can agree to disagree without getting ugly about it, and I guess that that is where we will have to leave it !

No, I do not intend to be acting arrogantly in any way shape or form, and I'm sorry if I come across that way to you in any degree whatsoever.

As I have said on another thread, Politics and Religion are two very "hot buttons", and this thread has combined both subjects, so in order not to stir up any further wrath, I am pulling back to the rear !

73, Jim


But I will be "lurking around!" http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ( To use Daffy Duck's old phrase ! )

[wa6ccw]

Quote[/b] (KC2G @ Feb. 24 2006,22:46)]I enjoyed his article, understand how his hypothesis that god is imaginary provides a very good fit to his evidence, yet in the end reject it because (1) it is at great odds with my experience and (2) his basic understanding of human nature is, in my opinion, not simply flawed but contradicted by what can be empirically known of this nature.
Hi KC2G, and thanks for the great post!

I am curious about something though...

What he (Marshall Brain) did was create an online book (Why Won't God Heal Amputees) consisting of 32 chapters. When you say that you "enjoyed his article" I am wondering what chapter(?), in particular, you are referring to?

[k0ro]

Hi Back at you CCW (does that mean I'm now going clockwise?).

He may call it a book...what was it, 32 articles? I read the first fifteen or so in-depth, then skimmed several, then jumped to his concluding chapters.

So no, I did not go through the entire "book" or exposé. I hope that doesn't disqualify me from the "right" to comment.

What I found most astonishing is that he managed to be gentle without being condescending, a skill many who partake of this forum, on all sides of all debates, might do well to acquire.

73,
Art

[W2ILP]

Getting back to the main topic of this thread...it reminded me of a book I once read. I gave the book to someone who I thought it might help because it didn't help me. It didn't help the guy I gave it to either.

The book was by Rabbi Kushner and the title was something like;-
"Why do bad things happen to good people?".

Rabbi Kushner was supposed to be a wise man...but it isn't easy to make excuses for God's absence when amputees or sick people need him. For the spin of excuses you have to be a learned rabbi, priest or theologician...or maybe a witch doctor.

When I was in the hospital, recovering from open heart surgery, I refused to speak to a visiting rabbi. He poked his head into the hospital room and he had a grim expression on his face. I told him to go away.
Later in the day a tall thin Black deacon entered the room. He didn't stop to ask if he would be welcome or what my religion was. He had a broad smile on his face and his voice rang with laughter. "You made it I see Man! Your chart says it was a four hour operation. You should celebrate when you get out of here and let the good times roll !".

The Black deacon made my day and made me reinforce my belief that it is not God that can cheer me up...IT IS HUMAN HAPPINESS! Human happiness is contagious...but being reminded that God died for my sins or Moses died after leading my people to the promised land could never cheer me up.

w2ilp (Interesting Living People)...can not heal amputees...but might help to cheer them up!

[W2ILP]

Believing in "Original sin"...makes no sense to me. #I don't believe that anyone is born carrying the blame for what Adam and Eve or Judas did. #I want all my sins to be the real ones I may have made or will live to make myself.. #To me those are the only sins that can be called "Original" after I make them. I'm not a born follower. #Any sin I make is bound to be original. #If any body wants to sin..I'm not going to copy his or her sin because then it couldn't be original.

Sex isn't sinful. #Fettishes might be if you know how to do them right.
#--Woody Allen--

w2ilp (Ignoring Long Past) #I say nothing bad about all the folks who are in Bible stories. #Even if they once existed they are now dead. #We can't talk bad about the dead. #As Moms Mabley said.."The're dead. #Good!"
P.S. Moms Mabley is dead.

[w7lpn]

God doesn't do any miracles which can easily be proven. That would remove the need for faith..."Oh yee of little faith". The doubter needs to have the free will to doubt, so if you prove a miracle to him beyond a reasonable doubt, then you take away his free agency. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KD7ZRT]

Apparently God abhors logic.

[wv6z]

Nahhhh, meh thinks eez just bin on 'oliday for thuh past four millenia.

[al2i]

Quote[/b] (W2ILP @ Feb. 26 2006,22:58)]Believing in "Original sin"...makes no sense to me. I don't believe that anyone is born carrying the blame for what Adam and Eve or Judas did. I want all my sins to be the real ones I may have made or will live to make myself.. To me those are the only sins that can be called "Original" after I make them. I'm not a born follower. Any sin I make is bound to be original. If any body wants to sin..I'm not going to copy his or her sin because then it couldn't be original.

Sex isn't sinful. Fettishes might be if you know how to do them right.
--Woody Allen--

w2ilp (Ignoring Long Past) I say nothing bad about all the folks who are in Bible stories. Even if they once existed they are now dead. We can't talk bad about the dead. As Moms Mabley said.."The're dead. Good!"
P.S. Moms Mabley is dead.
You beg the question ILP, as to what is a "sin". If you mean a violation of some moral law, what law?

Is the moral law something vague you feel, or is it something concrete you know by reasoned logic? If the former, how do you feel it? If the latter, what is the logical standard you use?

[n2nh]

Quote[/b] (KD7ZRT @ Feb. 27 2006,04:46)]Apparently God abhors logic.
That goes hand in hand with the theory that God is a she. So does the whole idea of a color 'pink'. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif