FCC Noncommital on Code Changes

[AA7BQ]

Just when the FCC will act on the "Morse code" proceeding, WT Docket 05-235,
remains hazy. The Commission released a Notice of Proposed Rule Making and
Order (NPRM&O) last July proposing to eliminate the Element 1 (5 WPM) Morse
code requirement for all license classes. The Amateur Radio community has
filed more than 3800 comments on the proceeding, and additional comments
continue to show up, even though the formal comment deadline was last
October 31 (with reply comments by November 14). The next--and
most-anticipated--step for the Commission is to formally adopt any revisions
to its rules and conclude the proceeding with a Report and Order (R&O) that
spells out the changes and specifies their effective date.

"There really is no news," an FCC Wireless Telecommunications Bureau staffer
told ARRL this week on background. "We certainly hope to release WT Docket
05-235 sometime this year, but we're not making any predictions at this
time. We certainly are not saving up any big announcements for Dayton
Hamvention."

Beyond eliminating the Morse requirement, the FCC declined proposing any
other suggested changes to the Amateur Service.

The proceeding began with 18 petitions for rule making--many just calling
for the elimination of the Morse requirement but some asking for more
far-reaching changes in the Amateur Service rules. The various petitions
attracted a total of some 6200 comments. The FCC subsequently consolidated
the petitions--including one from the ARRL asking the FCC to establish a new
entry-level license class and to retain the Morse requirement only for
Amateur Extra class applicants--into a single proceeding designated WT
05-235.

The FCC has not proposed extending HF privileges to current Technician
licensees who have not passed a Morse code examination. In its NPRM&O the
FCC suggested that in a no-Morse-requirement regime, "codeless Techs" could
gain HF access by taking the Element 3 General class written examination.

Any FCC decision to eliminate the 5 WPM Morse code requirement for HF access
would have *no* impact on either the current HF CW-only subbands or on the
CW privileges of Amateur Radio licensees.

Before it releases an R&O on the Morse code proceeding, however, the WTB
wants to wrap up action in another Amateur Radio-related docket--the "Phone
Band Expansion" (or "Omnibus") NPRM in WT Docket 04-140, released April 15,
2004. A dozen petitions for rulemaking, some dating back to 2001, were
consolidated in the Omnibus proceeding.

In that NPRM, the Commission proposed to go along with the ARRL's Novice
refarming plan aimed at reallocating the current Novice/Tech Plus subbands
and expanding portions of the 80, 40 and 15 meter phone bands. The FCC also
agreed with an ARRL proposal to extend privileges in the current General
CW-only HF subbands to present Novice and Tech Plus licensees (or
Technicians with Element 1 credit). WT 04-140 further proposed to
essentially do away with FCC rules prohibiting the manufacture and marketing
to Amateur Radio operators of amplifiers capable of operation on 12 and 10
meters.


Material from The ARRL Letter may be republished or reproduced in whole or
in part in any form without additional permission. Credit must be given to
The ARRL Letter and The American Radio Relay League.

[n9zxk]

I'm to the point where if they drop it, they drop it and if there not going to, then dont. Just get it over with. Either way it goes the other side will just have to live with it.

[wa2sam]

Help me out here, where it says "more efficient use of the radio spectrum", does that infer that they will be cutting back the section of each band for CW or elimenating it altogether? I say keep the CW requirement!

[kc8ykl]

Quote[/b] (n9zxk @ Feb. 18 2006,11:01)]I'm to the point where if they drop it, they drop it and if there not going to, then dont. Just get it over with. Either way it goes the other side will just have to live with it.


I agree.

[kc2idm]

Iv worked very hard to pass the code test. leave the current license classes alone. #If anyone wants to advance to other privliges they should have to work like I did. #dont give people privliges they havent earned.

[K9VQ]

I know it is just a matter of time for CW to be illiminated, but I wish the rquirement be kept for extra class. This would set extra for something to shoot for, for generals and below. I'm also against refarming the CW portion of the bands. It are used not just for CW but the digital modes as well, which are getting more popular everyday! It is nice to be below the phone bands without all the QRM.

[n3jbh]

" Kc2idm QUOTE
Iv worked very hard to pass the code test. leave the current license classes alone. If anyone wants to advance to other privliges they should have to work like I did. dont give people privliges they havent earned. "

your a great guy to talk about privledges you didnt earn. heck your a tech and you tooK how many questions to get there? 35 you say . heck when i became a teck there was 85 questions to get there. sounds to me like you didnt earn as much as you say. get the hell over it ok. when you took your test it was really easy. and i really doubt it ever get any easier so dont worry geeesh!!!
and
"kc2omo
Help me out here, where it says "more efficient use of the radio spectrum", does that infer that they will be cutting back the section of each band for CW or elimenating it altogether? I say keep the CW re"quirement!"


sure i agree keep the code requirment. and test for all the other modes to. Sam i am thats funny any ways sam i am a tech just like you. and proud of what i do. as my nitch is weal signal work in the vhf/uhf arena.

but your gripe about keeping cw which i use often. is really a poor argument in my eyes. when i here folks mode j3e and splattering like crazy you know what mode j3e is?

whats Vestigial side band? how does sread spectrum work?
explain oliva to me. whats bpsk. qpsk and mfsk16?
whats sc2 100. these are all modes aswell sam yet do they test for them for the tech or genral licsense? i dont think so. so i ask what the heck makes cw so darnded important then.

thats right it is a razing routine that you must pass to be in the old mans club. i am all for testing folks but lets be real here. teach and test how to work your equipment. how to be safe with your station. how to set up your station and use it properly. why you should use a d-104 power microphone turnded wide open on 2 meter fm.

thats what we need more fundamentals. heck folks lets test the way you should use your station safley and properly. and not worry about one mode so much.

ok thats thats all thanks Jeff n3jbh.

ok folks flame away. i am wearing my nomex underware.

[n2obm]

I feel it should be retained for the 'highest class' of ticket; that would infer those operators 'went the extra mile'.

But this topic has caused such HATE..and the like, someone please make a timely decision and let's move on!

[VE7RFH]

Well, the sky has not fallen in Canada and the other countries where Morse Code proficiency has been dropped as a ham radio license requirement. I agree however, make a decision and put an end to all the endless bickering if that is possible in the world of ham radio.

[n7wsb]

Quote[/b] (n3jbh @ Feb. 18 2006,12:32)]" Kc2idm QUOTE
Iv worked very hard to pass the code test. leave the current license classes alone. If anyone wants to advance to other privliges they should have to work like I did. dont give people privliges they havent earned. "

your a great guy to talk about privledges you didnt earn. heck your a tech and you tooK how many questions to get there? 35 you say . heck when i became a teck there was 85 questions to get there. sounds to me like you didnt earn as much as you say. get the hell over it ok. when you took your test it was really easy. and i really doubt it ever get any easier so dont worry geeesh!!!
I think he's kidding. I agree that it seems to be the sentiment in amateur radio however. I had to do it - so do you.

Yes when I first got my license I had to take the novice exam - big deal. Am I a better person for it? No.

My first computer had a kilobyte of ram - should everyone start out with the same thing? I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

[n7spy]

It doesn't matter to me whether the requirement is eliminated because I'm learning Morse Code regardless...

... but leave my spectrum alone http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[N6BOA]

...and here we go again! Come on Fred, you knew this would happen.

73 all - enjoy.

[n9xv]

All I know is that I "earned" my 20-WPM privelages and it feels great!

[n0ov]

Quote[/b] (kc8ykl @ Feb. 17 2006,12:19)]Quote[/b] (n9zxk @ Feb. 18 2006,11:01)]I'm to the point where if they drop it, they drop it and if there not going to, then dont. Just get it over with. Either way it goes the other side will just have to live with it.


I agree.
Life won't be the same if they eliminate CW.

Hey, wait a minute -- they aren't eliminating it. I can still use CW on the air.

OK then. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
----------------------
Seriously, ditto on what they said.

[K8PBX]

My prediction is that the FCC will decide to keep Morse code as a testing requirement for Extra class.

Just seems like the right thing to do.

[ky5u]

Always there for the freebee:

[N6BOA]

K8PBX...that's nice, classy.

[wb9iiv]

Wonder if the Big 3 Kenwood,Icom &Yaesu are in a tizzy wondering if they should continue having CW avail on there rigs? #:0 #And maybe they have a stockpile to deplete.And if no CW could they be called all-mode #rigs? http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Maybe this is why this issue is still brewing with the FCC and the Big 3 http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif #Money talks #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

Cheers de wb9iiv

[k9ekg]

Quote[/b] (AG4YO @ Feb. 18 2006,14:07)]Always there for the freebee:
Always there to reciprocate.

[ke4cpc]

I don't know why we make such a big deal about CW anymore anyways... The whole of the community is 'dumbing down' and even those who did study for 20 WPM and 18 WPM are using computers to do their CW for them now... In fact, most contests that have a CW multiplier ofen cause the CW portions of the bands to be crowded with guys that don't even know code anymore. But their computers are tapping it out at 25-40 WPM and it's become taboo to send "PSE QRS" anymore.

I enjoy a real CW QSO where the person on the other end is listening and either copying to paper or copying to memory, what the other station is sending. Not this junk where it's sent from a keyboard and received on a screen, didn't they used to call that packet? I think packet's faster though... So then what's the point except to get points during a stupid contest.

Then that brings me back to the original topic, why have we allowed code to get to the point where it's at now? What difference is it going to make if we just let any boob with a cracker jack license as an appliance operator get on and use HF? They don't know code so they'll either stay off the CW bands or they'll flood it with digital-noise. (40+ CW with precision spacing could be the same as digital noise)

I guess if the FCC allows any boob with a microphone down on the HF bands, then it won't be long before they allow their microphone on all the bands. Apparently nothing is sacred anymore.

[kb9aza]

the way i look at this is, if it gets more people involed in the hobbie its for the best. but they do need to find a way to make the people awhere of what you can do with cw that you cant with phone. i have had my ticket sents 1989 and i have the 5 wd a min. but i have not used it every. its not something i want to do with the hobbie. but the code has kept me of the hf bands becuase i could not get that 13wd. i tried and tried, gust could not get it. anyway i like what they are trying to do but hoop that they do something to save the code all togather. thank kb9aza.

[N7YA]

Well...

Im just one guy, im an extra because i wanted the extra spectrum. I passed the 20wpm in 1984 because i had to....but i use CW almost exclusively. i simply enjoy it.

but thats not controversial, that wont start a nice big fight. I dont want it to.

Nope, but this thread sure will, im sorry to say...I have never owned a keyboard. well i am typing with this one, thats about it....oh, and i have a DX7 for studio work, but i digress...i am an old fashioned, young ham at 40. I use an old SpeedX bug for dx work, a straight key for talking to novice/tech hams who actually get on HF (i love talking to newbies), I build my own antennas...i even use paper logs because i can convey the emotion of the moment better. and i like to go back and read my old logs....besides, paper logs dont crash. :-) the point is, we can survive this...its up to the individual to decide how much they enjoy doing this and how much neccessity can still be derived from the ARS.

Anyway, i come in peace...i know this thread will become very ugly, and i dont really want to be here when it does.

Just watch, this thread will define what is wrong with this forum...i agree with the others, let this subject die. the FCC will do what it wants to do and it seems the 'fight' is falling on deaf ears, unless im mistaken.

I will continue to use CW, i will also use SSB when i feel like it. I know this post will fade into the backstretch, but please...lets all try to remain civilized in the coming pages....they are going to be dark, very dark.

Im boarding up my windows for this one.

73...Adam, N7YA

[N3TTN]

Quote[/b] ]Always there to reciprocate.

Man, I almost broke a rib laughing so hard when I saw that one, and the description is very appropriate for the chuckster....nice work ekg!!

[k9ekg]

Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Feb. 18 2006,18:54)]Quote[/b] ]Always there to reciprocate.

Man, I almost broke a rib laughing so hard when I saw that one, and the description is very appropriate for the chuckster....nice work ekg!!
All done with good humor.

[ki9g]

Quote[/b] ]the way i look at this is, if it gets more people involed in the hobbie its for the best.

I agree. Have you heard some of those "old timers" NOT wanting anyone on the HF bands. Have you ever listened to some of those guys on HF telling people that 'THIS IS MY FREQ'? It's pathetic. I'm a no code tech running all vhf and uhf. I'm not going anywhere...staying right here next to echolink and my repeaters.
Have a nice day!

[k3ng]

Why the code testing requirement needs to be eliminated:

http://p1k.arrl.org/~ehare/AmateurRadioPopulation.bmp

Reality.

[N8PU]

I agree with some of the others, either do or don't eliminate the code.

But then isn't the FCC a government agency, when if ever has any branch of the government moved with any speed at all, unless it is to give themselves a pay raise. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[KI4KCJ]

Quote[/b] (n2obm @ Feb. 18 2006,12:44)]I feel it should be retained for the 'highest class' of ticket; that would infer those operators 'went the extra mile'.

But this topic has caused such HATE..and the like, someone please make a timely decision and let's move on!
Your definately right on the hate thing. This subject has caused so much hate in one of the best hobbies ive ever gotten in to. Turning HAM's against other HAM's because they want to wait for the code to be dropped. I used to be in favor of it, but all of the attitude about it makes it not even worth it.

[K0RGR]

After spending many hours composing my responses to the 18 petitions, only to see FCC take the laziest and cheapest path to a solution (I'm not saying NCT's are lazy - I'm saying the FCC is...) my response to their NPRM was pretty much "...Do it, and get it over with, so we can stop twisting in the wind...". I'm hoping they exercise a little bit more gray matter before the final R+O.

[W0GI]

Quote[/b] (N7YA @ Feb. 18 2006,18:39)]Well...

Nope, but this thread sure will, im sorry to say...I have never owned a keyboard. well i am typing with this one, thats about it....oh, and i have a DX7 for studio work, but i digress...i am an old fashioned, young ham at 40.
...............

73...Adam, N7YA
Hi Adam,

I still have my DX7, though it is not used much anymore. I also have a TX816, though I have already sold one module on Ebay, with the rest going later.

The Hammond B3 is my favorite "old keyboard"

But I am a guitar player anyway, so it is ok for me to have ancient keyboards.

You are right, this thread will become another qrz.com "hell on earth". But what else is new.

Maybe CW is about dead, but it sure is fun, and the best way to work DX on AA batteries in a QRP rig.

The Elecraft KX1 is my next rig. Out in the woods, with 2 watts, and still working stations. Now that is cool.

--... ...-- Bob

[k5brk]

Lets get the gov't agency FEMA involved to help out. They know how to make fast decisions! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[wq7c]

I worked hard to get where I am with code and all, however, by dropping the code requirement means getting more hams to use the frequency's rather than have to give up any frequency's then I am all for it.
We need all we can get to be efficient in emergency communications.

[wb6bcn]

Quote[/b] (k3ng @ Feb. 18 2006,18:23)]Why the code testing requirement needs to be eliminated:

http://p1k.arrl.org/~ehare/AmateurRadioPopulation.bmp

Reality.
If you notice around 1965 to 1975 there was a bobble in the numbers. In 1968 they took away VHF priveleges from the Novice class. I know this because I was a Novice in 1968 and had VHF priveleges for several months as a Novice.

The world didn't end and I didn't bail out.

I feel that today with the talk of possibly removing the code has created a bunch of slackerds that won't do anything until the FCC makes it official which way they are going to go on the code issue.

My nickles worth

[k3ng]

Quote[/b] (wb6bcn @ Feb. 18 2006,20:43)]Quote[/b] (k3ng @ Feb. 18 2006,18:23)]Why the code testing requirement needs to be eliminated:

http://p1k.arrl.org/~ehare/AmateurRadioPopulation.bmp

Reality.
If you notice around 1965 to 1975 there was a bobble in the numbers. #In 1968 they took away VHF #priveleges from the Novice class. #I know this because I was a Novice in 1968 and had VHF priveleges for several months as a Novice.

The world didn't end and I didn't bail out.

I feel that today with the talk of possibly removing the code has created a bunch of slackerds that won't do anything until the FCC makes it official which way they are going to go on the code issue.

My nickles worth
It's pretty much a done deal which way they are going; the fat lady is on stage and is ready to sing.

In the 60s and 70s, Amateur Radio didn't have to compete with the Internet, cell phones, iPods, and what seems to be increasing work hours and less free time.

If someone wants to become a ham and is waiting for the CW test to be dropped, so be it. #They will be a fellow ham like you and I and those before them in the previous 100 years who felt the magic of radio.

[k4klb]

The "dumbing down" of ham radio is being displayed by all who remain here beating down a dead horse. If you are too "dumb" to realize that you cannot change the requirments by whimpering here, I'm sorry. You CAN take time out of a busy day of arguing code vs no code on QRZ and teach a few Techs CW. Just think of the impact that would have on the world of ham radio vs sitting here beating the dead horse.

[k3ng]

Quote[/b] (kc2idm @ Feb. 18 2006,12:02)]Iv worked very hard to pass the code test. leave the current license classes alone. #If anyone wants to advance to other privliges they should have to work like I did. #dont give people privliges they havent earned.
Actually, you had it pretty easy and didn't have to work nearly as hard as your predecessors. #To be a ham in the 20's, you had to build a rig from scratch using whatever parts you could dig up. #That's earning a ticket and privleges! #Today you can just call up HRO or AES, give a credit card number, and viola, UPS delivers a rig.

(See the irony in the "I earned my privleges, everyone else should, too" argument?)

[KD7WHQ]

Quite.

I have sat on the fence on this issue, and still do; if they do away with it, they do. If they don't, they don't.

But, if they do, be sure I will stay clear of the sub bands. Those who use CW in my mind should have the "real estate" to do so.

But, it is my hope that those who do prefer CW will not shun any NCG (that would be the new class, if code testing is done away with) that should decide to practice real time one-on-one.

Now, wouldn't this be fair?

Never know, you just might find a CW convert ;)

Idiots will be sorted out early on, believe it.

Merely setting up an HF station is far beyond setting up a VHF/UHF station, which will "filter" a large number of people right off, at least for a time.

Add covenants, and restrictions of other kinds, and I don't think the impact would be that large on any front.

Not every one has the space that I do to throw up wire, and the number of people that do grows smaller every day.

And a tribander definitely does not fade into the background as easily as a 2m yagi.

Don't stress over remote possibilities. It's far better to deal with what is..

[N7YA]

Quote[/b] (W6NJ @ Feb. 18 2006,20:32)]Quote[/b] (N7YA @ Feb. 18 2006,18:39)]Well...

Nope, but this thread sure will, im sorry to say...I have never owned a keyboard. well i am typing with this one, thats about it....oh, and i have a DX7 for studio work, but i digress...i am an old fashioned, young ham at 40.
...............

73...Adam, N7YA
Hi Adam,

I still have my DX7, though it is not used much anymore. I also have a TX816, though I have already sold one module on Ebay, with the rest going later.

The Hammond B3 is my favorite "old keyboard"

But I am a guitar player anyway, so it is ok for me to have ancient keyboards.

You are right, this thread will become another qrz.com "hell on earth". But what else is new.

Maybe CW is about dead, but it sure is fun, and the best way to work DX on AA batteries in a QRP rig.

The Elecraft KX1 is my next rig. Out in the woods, with 2 watts, and still working stations. Now that is cool.

--... ...-- Bob
Hi Bob,
I use the DX7 to hold up the wall in storage...it doesnt work very well these days. i use a small 61 key trigger board for Midi...besides, the DX7 is a heavy SOB!!

I play bass for a living, i see our keyboard player show up with ALL his gear and i just feel good that i ONLY chose to play bass...he has a ton of stuff. I agree, i like the B3's sound...i like the old gear, old Fender basses, Ampegs and a nice set of Rotosounds on there...im rocking the vintage sound with that setup. looks nice too.

As for the thread, i dont mind going off topic for a bit...commercials do it all the time on tv...believe me, guitar talk is pleasant compared to what is surely to come. already happened in a few posts. newbies will be attacked, NCT's will be chastised, FCC, ARRL, BPL, CW, non-CW...all will be bashed in some form or another...QRZ is like the middle east sometimes. always a hot spot among otherwise intelligent minds.

I think one on one, most of these folks are ok people...easy to talk to and reason with...but something happens in here that gets everyone going. hmm, i dont know.

Ill have to disagree, Bob. CW is not dead by any means, it will be just fine...we just wont have testing anymore. but like ANY gov agency, the FCC are dragging thier feet about making any decision. once the code testing goes away, IF anyone starts acting like CBers on CW, i will tune away. the way i see it, i wont have a choice.

The difference is in the individual, true ladies and gentlemen dont act like rogues once they get on the air, or out in public.

There are good, decent ops among every facet of our ranks, NCT's, DXer, SSB, CW, repeater dwellers, even on here....there are always the pariahs too. ham radio isnt exempt from the same paterns that society takes. simply put, there are good people and bad people.

I will also agree with you, running a qso with a minikey, a qrp backpack rig and some batteries...and just some wire in a tree...is a great thrill. not only are you out in the countryside, in a beautiful spot, but doing something enjoyable....cant beat it.

CW is here to stay, same with AM, there are AM guys out there who meet every week and will continue to do so. they dont dwell on the demise of thier favorite mode, they simply keep using it. heh heh. I will do the same with my favorite mode. CW testing, on the other hand, is done for...but we have all seen this coming.

But this big DX contest on right now sure looks like CW is still breathing. speaking of which, im getting back on....good to talk to you again, Bob.

C U on the air!

73...Adam, N7YA

[N7YA]

Quote[/b] (k5brk @ Feb. 18 2006,20:33)]Lets get the gov't agency FEMA involved to help out. They know how to make fast decisions! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
HAHAHAHA....man, thats rich!! good one, OM! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[N7YA]

Quote[/b] (KD7WHQ @ Feb. 18 2006,21:54)]Quite.

I have sat on the fence on this issue, and still do; if they do away with it, they do. If they don't, they don't.

But, if they do, be sure I will stay clear of the sub bands. Those who use CW in my mind should have the "real estate" to do so.

But, it is my hope that those who do prefer CW will not shun any NCG (that would be the new class, if code testing is done away with) that should decide to practice real time one-on-one.

Now, wouldn't this be fair?

Never know, you just might find a CW convert ;)

Idiots will be sorted out early on, believe it.

Merely setting up an HF station is far beyond setting up a VHF/UHF station, which will "filter" a large number of people right off, at least for a time.

Add covenants, and restrictions of other kinds, and I don't think the impact would be that large on any front.

Not every one has the space that I do to throw up wire, and the number of people that do grows smaller every day.

And a tribander definitely does not fade into the background as easily as a 2m yagi.

Don't stress over remote possibilities. It's far better to deal with what is..
Agreed, and well put...if they open up the sub bands, its not just CW that will be walked on. the digi-modes will get it too.

I think if things change, they will change only a little...we wont need to worry too much about it...it will just mean more real estate for me and my bug.

I wholeheartedly agree, i would NEVER shun another fellow ham...especially if they didnt ask for it. i WILL shun an old school, extra class OT who was acting like a jerk on the air...the last time i was on CB was when i was a kid, i'd like to keep it that way. Im always ready to give a newbie a cw qso.

I DO have issues with CCR's, however. im not into some powerless old folks telling me how to decorate my house...much less what to put on top of it. if i pay nearly a half million for a house (modest home in my area)...do i forfiet my rights to anything personal? am i a renter? i know im not alone in this frustration.

Anyway, i think we will be ok.

73...Adam, N7YA

[N0FQN]

Quote[/b] (n7wsb @ Feb. 18 2006,12:55)]Quote[/b] (n3jbh @ Feb. 18 2006,12:32)]" #Kc2idm # # # # QUOTE
Iv worked very hard to pass the code test. leave the current license classes alone. #If anyone wants to advance to other privliges they should have to work like I did. #dont give people privliges they havent earned. "
#
your a great guy to talk about privledges you didnt earn. heck your a tech and you tooK how many questions to get there? 35 you say . heck when i became a teck there was 85 questions to get there. sounds to me like you #didnt earn as much as you say. get the hell over it ok. when you took your test it was really easy. and i really doubt it ever get any easier so dont worry geeesh!!!
I think he's kidding. I agree that it seems to be the sentiment in amateur radio however. I had to do it - so do you.

Yes when I first got my license I had to take the novice exam - big deal. Am I a better person for it? No.

My first computer had a kilobyte of ram - should everyone start out with the same thing? I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
Here's another prime example of because everything else has "convenience" so should ham testing. You "worked" to get your novice ticket. Yes, you are a better person. You put forth the effort to do so because you thought it was worth while. People seem to feel if they don't like the testing or obstacle placed before them in life, just whine and find every "excuse", not reason, to get rid of it. I if you don't like the testing procedures then don't advance. Apparently you didn't want the class of license bad enough to put forth "the effort". Personally I feel strongly that if you "work hard" for something you'll appreciate it and treasure it a lot more. Ham radio is not like driving a car, a computer or any other advancement of "convenience". It "requires" a deeper understanding in all modes available to the operator than just turning on a rig and operating it. CW is still on all my rigs and my understanding is that the testing is to cover all modes available to the operator.

[IW5EIJ]

Dear friend,
i'm an ex-technician licensee. Here in Italia this happened just last summer. Since August 25 you heard IW prefix calling on HF bands. A lot of OM's were scared about this... they said this will be "the end of the real ham radio..."
After some months we all discovered there was a lot of IW which are good CW operators and a lot of old OM which are bad phone ops.
But the radio goes on and if you're a "real" OM your licence and your prefix doesn't matter... skilled ones will enjoy radio and "less skilled" (as i'm) discovers that CW is necessary if you want to go even in poor conditions... (3Y is impossible for me in ssb)
So my friends don't worry... the more we're the more we will enjoy our hobby.
Have a nice sunday... hpe to meet u on air
ciao

[kb2wye]

let those individuals make up their minds already with this code situtation. either keep the code or drop it and lets move on.

[PE1RDW]

Now we have reduced our licence structure in the Netherlands to just novice and full we get some hams that have passed the code test when it was still tested and somehow feel that it makes them more technicaly skilled opperators.

The funny part is that our goverment is giving the novice access to part of 40 and 20 meters and the whole 10 meter soon but not to 23 cm and higher.

Guess the goverment feels that you need more technical skills for 23 cm and up then for HF.

If there is one licence class that has been given extra privilages over the years it existed then it is novice.
they started out as a temp licence with only 6 channels on 2 meter FM and no homebuild alowed, then they got the whole fm section between 145.000 till 145.7875, later it was extended to the fm section on 70cm , packet on 70cm, and ssb on 2m and 70cm. The last extention was opening the whole 2 meter and 70 cm in all modes including satalites and now HF is comming.

Do I feel wronged that they get handed all these extentions? no not realy because it gives me more felow hams to experiment with.

[W4LWQ]

Quote[/b] (n7wsb @ Feb. 18 2006,12:55)]Quote[/b] (n3jbh @ Feb. 18 2006,12:32)]" #Kc2idm # # # # QUOTE
Iv worked very hard to pass the code test. leave the current license classes alone. #If anyone wants to advance to other privliges they should have to work like I did. #dont give people privliges they havent earned. "
#
your a great guy to talk about privledges you didnt earn. heck your a tech and you tooK how many questions to get there? 35 you say . heck when i became a teck there was 85 questions to get there. sounds to me like you #didnt earn as much as you say. get the hell over it ok. when you took your test it was really easy. and i really doubt it ever get any easier so dont worry geeesh!!!
I think he's kidding. I agree that it seems to be the sentiment in amateur radio however. I had to do it - so do you.

Yes when I first got my license I had to take the novice exam - big deal. Am I a better person for it? No.

My first computer had a kilobyte of ram - should everyone start out with the same thing? I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
The same with me 13wpm when I got it,Icouldn't have said it better than you.The "just because I did it" attitude pi$$es me off,I expect to see you only fly in prop jobs(no jets),no cell phones(we didn't have um).Just because I had to do something in the past doesn't mean it was correct.The times they are a changing,we need to change with it..Dave...

[KD5NCO]

PE1RDW

Ended with this thought demonstrating a great attitude;

"Do I feel wronged that they get handed all these extentions? no not realy because it gives me more felow hams to experiment with."

I like to think that some day many of the CW Morse Code lovers will stop the "I had to so you must also" or "you are not a REAL ham unless you know code". I am sick of the reference to lazy, stupid, dumbed down and other generalizations that disrespect many Licensed Amateur Radio Ops.

I sincerely hope that some day they have an epiphany and realize that CW can stand on it's own for many many decades well into the 22nd century, perhaps forever. (well at least as long as the ARS exists)

CW and Morse Code works every where every time, CW and Morse Code are a tradition, CW is easy and can be done home brew for less the $20.00, CW Morse Code is on the moon, satellites, and many beacons, Morse Code on CW helps bridge the language barrier, Morse Code on CW is nostalgic, and Morse Code via CW is fun..... sell those facts OM!

WOW! And I am staunchly anti code test....hummmm go figure

[N0CTO]

I guess I need to hurry up and learn code before the requirement goes away - and then never use it.

I would hate to be shunned by all the know-coders for the rest of my life while I'm TALKING on HF.

[n4sva]

I say we lower the requirements for physicians. God knows we have a shortage of them.

[W5IEI]

Simple fact:
Any General,or Extra in favor of dropping code is just wanting his/her local 11 meter buddies to be able to get on HF with him/her!
Mike

[k3ng]

Quote[/b] (n4sva @ Feb. 19 2006,07:04)]I say we lower the requirements for physicians. God knows we have a shortage of them.
Bad analogy. #Eliminating/lowering physician testing would cause more people to die from doctor mistakes and incompetance. #Eliminating the code test will just cause a couple ham operator heart attacks.

[ke5ast]

Quote[/b] (N0CTO @ Feb. 19 2006,07:00)]I guess I need to hurry up and learn code before the requirement goes away - and then never use it.

I would hate to be shunned by all the know-coders for the rest of my life while I'm TALKING on HF.
I couldn't have said it better myself...most of the ones that complain about the fcc dropping it, never use it anyway.

[kc0pdf]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say we lower the requirements for physicians. God knows we have a shortage of them.


YES they are called EMT's and Volunteer First Responders!
I bet that they are the first to treat you if you are having a heart attack or stroke or bleading badly after a car crash.and thank God they are there!

Get Real here.
ARS is a hobby!
Do #physicians do it as a hobby!

I did an edit for the spelling police.
But I do have other hobbie's OK?

[N6BOA]

That physician analogy was completely brainless. k3ng is right, as is kc0pdf - I can tell you, I know more EMTs that have saved lives where, without their help, the patient would have died. Radio is not even remotely related to that analogy. Sheesh.

Being able to copy CW at 5, 13, or 20 wpm does not make anyone a good op. Nor does not knowing code make someone a bad op. Of course, the issue is now, and always has been, the fact that some folks have had to run a more rigorous gauntlet than others. Though only required to work 5 wpm, I am up to 13 now. I am very slow and I really don't care. I am raising the bar for myself, not to prove to anyone else I can do it. What I am really concentrating on is learning more radio theory and electronics. I could care less if I never gain speed with CW. But I do care that I understand about propagation, antennas, amplifiers, SWRs, etc. So have your code-no code debate. It is really pointless.

[ka9inv]

1) A lot of people are referring to a "hobbie".... would someone tell me what a "hobbie" is? Is it anything like a "hobby"?

2) I am both amazed and appalled at the number of times people are willing to rehash the same old arguments over and over again. Instead of complaining about this old topic, get into the shack and get on the air. Imagine how many more people could be in your log if you left these stupid code threads on this website alone!

3) This site sets a horrible example for newcomers to amateur radio when all they see is ops bashing each other over code and other issues... just knock it off. You want to attract new people to the hobby? First and foremost, stop scaring them off with all these stupid threads that make it look like we're all a bunch of stuck-up know-it-all snobs. There are few people like this on the air in reality, and when you run across them most ops have a nice device called a VFO to get themselves away from it. It must be real motivating for a potential new licensee to go for it when they see nothing but hostility on what's probably the biggest ham radio site on the net.

4) Gaaaaaah, I'm going to go get on the air... I'm sure I'lll get flamed for posting anyway. And I just might use code. Or SSB.

[kg4dnb]

With the FCC taking the time to mandate a no code testing requirement, could it be that they want the ham community to get this off their chest, matter of speaking, before they actually put this into effect? #To make it an easier transistion?

The reason I'm asking this is because I've read in other posts and threads that some of the hams say that first they were against it, then later in the thread or other posts, they state that they were either wrong or thought it to be a great thing getting more OP's to work on the bands.

[k3ng]

Quote[/b] (W5IEI @ Feb. 19 2006,07:10)]Simple fact:
Any General,or Extra in favor of dropping code is just wanting his/her local 11 meter buddies to be able to get on HF with him/her!
Mike
(Devil's Advocate Mode) Simple Fact: Anyone in favor of keeping the code test just wants to keep only their old geezer buddies in ham radio just so they can talk about their laxatives and medical issues.

All sounds kind of silly, doesn't it? #Do you have any evidence to back up your "simple fact"? #I'm a 20 WPM Extra and don't know any CBers.

[N1TGE]

Well here goes my first post.

I became a NCT when I was 12 in 1994. I have been meaning to get my code privliges ever since but I made a big mistake and joined the local volunteer FD and EMS. J/K I am glad I joined emergency services because I have learned a lot and it helped me get a great job.

But all of this volunteer work has kept me busy along with school, college and work. I have been learning the code on and off and hopefully I will finally get thru this and get HF privliges. If I even have the spare cash kicking around to get a HF radio - and find a way to put a HF antenna in my condos attic! Time will tell.

Anyway, I am 24 and most of my friends are around the same age. They all think the hobby is interesting but the CW scares them away. Talking to people far away in other countries is cool to them. The local repeater talk is not that attractive. They can do the same thing with their phones in full duplex! Even when I explain why CW is better sometimes they just refer me to the internet, their MP3 player camera cell phone or instant messengers that can all do the same thing for much less. Young people seem to like efficieny a lot these days with the little time we all have.

If letting CW go gets more people into the hobby then lets welcome it. We all have a favorite mode to use. BUT, the FCC should leave a subband for CW operators. You never know when our bands are going to be looked at as prime real estate for other services. After 9/11 shortfalls in public safety communications has been a highlight in all the news. Not much has happened because there is NO MORE spectrum left. Pretty soon they might start to look at 2m, 1.25m or 70cm when first responders start to figure out that 800 trunk/digital systems dont propagate and cover large areas. Get more people involved in the hobby dont shun them away.

Shawn N1TGE

[ac7dx]

Quote[/b] (kc2idm @ Feb. 18 2006,12:02)]Iv worked very hard to pass the code test. leave the current license classes alone. If anyone wants to advance to other privliges they should have to work like I did. dont give people privliges they havent earned.
But they are too lazy to learn. They've grown use to welfare and thats good enough for them
73
AC7DX
A know coder

[K1MVP]

Quote[/b] (N1TGE @ Feb. 19 2006,11:22)]Well here goes my first post.

I became a NCT when I was 12 in 1994. I have been

Anyway, I am 24 and most of my friends are around the same age. They all think the hobby is interesting but the CW scares them away. Talking to people far away in other countries is cool to them. The local repeater talk is not that attractive. They can do the same thing with their phones in full duplex! Even when I explain why CW is better sometimes they just refer me to the internet, their MP3 player camera cell phone or instant messengers that can all do the same thing for much less. Young people seem to like efficieny a lot these days with the little time we all have.
Ok Shawn,

As far as cw scaring people,--I was 17 when I got my
novice ticket back in 1959, and cw did not scare myself
or many other "kids" back then.

And why do you think that was?--We looked as the
cw requirement,--as just that,--a "requirement" and did
what we had to do to get the license.

I was "scared" when I took my motor vehicle drivers exam at 19, BUT I did NOT let that stop me,--barely
passed the road test, and went on to be a good driver
and have driven all over the U.S. over the past 40+ years and was able to stay out of any major accident.

I guess,--what I am saying,--is that if you want
something bad enough,--you will find a way to get it.

# # # # # # # # # # # # #73`s, Good luck,
# # # # # # # # # # # # # from Rene,--K1MVP

P.S., You have already demonstrated courage,(in my
# # # #opinion) in posting your thoughts on this
# # # #website.(QRZ is a "rough" one)

[KD8COO]

I plan on learning CW and upgrading no matter what. Whichever way the ruling goes, it only changes exactly how soon, and the order I'll do it in http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif (I'm already confident in passing the written for the General, but am nowhere near having my CW down yet).

[N2MMM]

I guess the crybabies will get their way.

[N7YA]

Quote[/b] (kc0pdf @ Feb. 19 2006,08:00)]YES they are called EMT's and Volunteer First Responders!
I bet that they are the first to treat you if you are having a heart attack or stroke or bleading badly after a car crash.and thank God they are there!

Get Real here.
ARS is a hobby!
Do physicians do it as a hobby!

I did an edit for the spelling police.
But I do have other hobbie's OK?
Bingo!! man, i must be twisted for sticking around to watch this thread...its doing just what i expected it would.

But your post is right...EMT's will also be there to save the lives of QRZ posters who get all worked up and keel over at the keyboard.

Theres only a small minority of hams who do this for true "emergency prepardeness". the rest do it for fun....or so im told. i know i do.

...AND YOU SPELLED BLEEDING WRONG!!!!

heh heh, just kidding...youre right, some folks get worked up over the strangest things.

Its puzzling to me, really. I can see getting stressed out by money falling short and you have no food for your family, i can see getting stressed out by a house fire that takes everything you own, and the stress levels would be immense if that fire took a loved one...but to get all worked up by what MIGHT happen to ham radio???

I just cant explain the human psyche sometimes.

73...Adam, N7YA

[k3ng]

Quote[/b] (N2MMM @ Feb. 19 2006,12:54)]I guess the crybabies will get their way.
No, I don't think they will. #The FCC is most likely going to eliminate the code testing requirement.

[KB1SF]

Requiring proficiency in the Morse code in order to obtain a Ham Radio license is much like having to demonstrate how to shoe a horse in order to get a driver’s license.

73,

Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF

[N6BOA]

K3NG - that was too funny...and appropriate.

[K1MVP]

Quote[/b] (kb1sf @ Feb. 19 2006,14:19)]Requiring proficiency in the Morse code in order to obtain a Ham Radio license is much like having to demonstrate how to shoe a horse in order to get a driver’s license.

73,

Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF
Ah,--more "words of wisdom" from Canada.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # #73, K1MVP

[KC0VNT]

What a dilema. #About four months ago I passed the Technician.
I feel like a lot of you, not a "Ham" unless one can receive and send code. #So I have been practicing to no avail, because I have 50% hearing loss in both ears. #Aids amplify the sound OK, but doesn't allow me to distinguish between dits and dahs. #Does anybody have an idea on this other than flashlights and vibrations?
I hate to wait out the FCC to make General and above. # KC0VNT http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[W4CNG]

I grew up in the "Old School" (1960's) where we did not argue this kind of "Stuff". #There were lots of Hams with Visible Outside antennas that would teach you, or call someone else who could become an Elmer to help an aspiring youngster (or olderster) to become a Ham. #I thank God for my many Elmers in Columbus, Ga. (many of their callsigns are well known) for their help. #Most of the issues I see now out on the Web are "I want it now". #It is up to the FCC to make the call on this and that is the end of the line. #I know CW and talk to others that do. #I respect those that do not, or do not see a need for it. #I do see a time that some folks may not be able to participate in one or more modes of communications when it is really needed. #That is your choice. #As for me, I have no more FCC tests to pass.

Steve W4CNG

[K3UD]

Quote[/b] (N6BOA @ Feb. 19 2006,10:58)]Being able to copy CW at 5, 13, or 20 wpm does not make anyone a good op.
That is a rather broad statement to make.

Knowing code at 5-13 or 20 WPM (or better) certainly gives a good op a tremendous resource at his or her disposal to be used when it quite possibly might be the only mode to get through when others do not. It is also another skill that you know. While knowing the code does not make anyone a good or bad op, it makes the good ones better and more valuable than the ones who do not.

Communications using CW and the code can be done with very simple equipment and on flea power. You do not need a computer or a reader or a rigblaster interface. Digital modes are quite a bit more complex to get going and carries much more hardware infrastructure overhead than a simple but capable CW setup does.

I find it interesting that the FCC seems to be wrangling over the code issue. If they were going to drop the requirement one would think that it would have been already a done deal. Other countries dropped it almost immediately. Could it be that it might not happen?

73
George
K3UD

[KC4ZYP]

I'm one of those no code Techs. If the FCC ever makes up it's mind to drop the code, I'll upgrade to General. What's weird is the suggestion that the FCC wouldn't let the plain Techs have the same use of the hf bands as the Novice/Tech Plus hf. Yet, if there wouldn't be a code requirement, then why not? A gentle push to upgrade? Otherwise: There isn't any requirement (except in CW only bands & subbands) to use CW. It's still at least a good trade off: no Novice/Tech Plus hf use as a plain Tech, but written only upgrade to General :-) . I'd rather be a General anyway. 73 Hal, KC4ZYP

http://www.qrz.com/hampix/p/y/kc4zyp.1022596379.jpg
My Webpage (http://caller.tripod.com)

[KI4GXD]

Quote[/b] (n9zxk @ Feb. 18 2006,11:01)]I'm to the point where if they drop it, they drop it and if there not going to, then dont. Just get it over with. Either way it goes the other side will just have to live with it.
I agree, you can only beat a dead horse so much! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[N5VYN]

I know I'm wasting my time here since people have their minds made up already. Yes I'm a no-code tech.....yes 11 meter got me interested in this hobby. I got my license when I was 14, I am now 29. I got it a couple months after they passed the nocode. I was studying my code before it got passed. I was out of the hobby for a while when I got a little older and in college. I have got back into the hobby again. I have started studying again. If it got passed sure I'd be there asap to get my general. That does not mean I do not wish to KNOW code. The guys that make comments about your CB buddies on HF are ridiculous.

My younger brother passed his test 2 weeks ago, he is 21. Hearing ISS pass over is really what interested him I think. He has only been exposed to VHF/UHF, sure there is plenty to do on these bands with sats, packet and everything. Now he is trying to get the club at his college that once had members revived. He has never been exposed to the joys of just listening to HF. This hobby does not need to die, which it is a scary thought. He has never been on the dreaded, hated, nasty...11 meter band, as a matter of fact who has lately around here? As for the I had to so you have to as well guys, that point has been covered already. Let us get the youth involved before the bands are dead, alot of the the guys I talked to when I first became a ham are no longer with us anymore.

Adam great posts, I would practice with you if only I could get on a band where we could!!!
Perhaps one of these days!
Take care guys....don't be too harsh.....lets share....its just a little bandwidth http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[W5HTW]

Quote[/b] (KC4ZYP @ Feb. 19 2006,18:08)]I'm one of those no code Techs. If the FCC ever makes up it's mind to drop the code, I'll upgrade to General.



What's weird is the suggestion that the FCC wouldn't let the plain Techs have the same use of the hf bands as the Novice/Tech Plus hf. Yet, if there wouldn't be a code requirement, then why not? A gentle push to upgrade? Otherwise: There isn't any requirement (except in CW only bands & subbands) to use CW. It's still at least a good trade off: no Novice/Tech Plus hf use as a plain Tech, but written only upgrade to General :-) . I'd rather be a General anyway. 73 Hal, KC4ZYP
Actually, General will downgrade to you.


If the FCC drops the code requirement there will be no difference between Technician licenses. In preparation for this, they already eliminated the differences in their database, which should give us a clue as to the next step.

At the moment, though, Novices and Tech pluses (code) have access to only CW frequencies except on ten meters. So giving a Tech no code those privileges would do not good at all, except to allow him access to ten meters in a narrow segment. It would be his own limitations, not FCC rules, that kept him off 80, 40 and 15 meters.

On the agenda at the FCC is the "refarming" proposal. Several proposals are linked. If one becomes a law, it will affect others. That includes dropping Morse testing, refarming the bands, and the bandwidth proposals. It appears at this moment they are looking closely at the refarming proposal.

If they do that, the way the ARRL suggested, Novices and Tech Pluses will be shifted down. To where? To either the data bands, or to the low CW bands. But what they may do is grant Novice/Tech plus ALL CW frequencies (except perhaps the bottom 25 khz, now reserved for Extras) but with reduced power, say 200 watts.

This will allow phone band expansion. For example, on 40 meters, SSB voice would then be extended down to 7100 khz. That, though, does not have the code-free Tech in the slightest! And it doesn't do an awful lot for the 'extincting" Novices and Techs/Code.

The single problem that appears to stand in the way of upgrading Techs and Tech pluses, to No code General (should Morse testing be removed, and we are sure it will be) is the RF safety portions of the test. It would appear to be a Tech or Tech Plus could take a very brief test, say five questions, on RF radiation, and if he passed it, would become a General. There is some different in theory, but not enough to be a stumbling block. And even then, a new element, say Element 3-J, could be written to allow such "instant upgrades" by Techs and Tech pluses, and even by Novices.

Realistically, most Novices have more knowledge of radio fundamentals AND code, than do most Techs. The reason is they took the test when it was a bit harder and they did take the code. It would not be beyond imagination to upgrade all Novices, Techs and Tech pluses to General, with only the RF safety test.

But then comes No-Code, following refarming. Why refarming, then, we ask? Will the present CW bands, say from 7000 to 7100 still be reserved for CW/data? In the move to phase out CW, as the FCC appears intent upon doing (and I am not referring to Morse testing, but the allocation of CW-only band restrictions) it would seem silly to retain 100 khz of bandwidth (there's THAT word again) for a rapidly dwindlng supply of CW operators. This would require another 'refarming" in the next two or three years, as the voice population of the ham bands jumps, as most of us expect it to do.

Or the FCC can forget about refarming and put every effort into the bandwidth proposal. That will, as I understand it, eliminate class-based sub-bands for everyone. And THAT said, it paves the way to a single class of license, the Amateur Radio License. Coupled with the Morse -free testing, it puts the Tech, Novice, General or otherwise, in the low end of what is now the Extra Class CW sub-bands, as it will be mode that determines where one can operate, not class of license.

There is a lot on the table, it appears to me. I am not sure I see the FCC taking the ARRL proposals verbatim and putting them into effect. I suspect there will be some modification, and perhaps a lot of modification.

That may be why the FCC is continuing to delay. They need to work out the ramifications of the various routes they can take, from doing nothing to doing everything, including making a single class of ham radio license. Or at the very least, a "Standard" license (Techs, Generals, Advanced, and Extras, and old Novices) and a Learners License, akin to the old Novice.

Sounds pretty confused to me. Probably does to the folks at the FCC as well.

Ed

[k5brk]

I was wondering how many of the big three radio manufacturers have lobbyists outside the FCC office? You know they are encouraging the FCC to drop Cw so they will have a giant leap in radio sales. Better buy stock now! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[k3ng]

Quote[/b] (K3UD @ Feb. 19 2006,17:50)]Quote[/b] (N6BOA @ Feb. 19 2006,10:58)]Being able to copy CW at 5, 13, or 20 wpm does not make anyone a good op.
That is a rather broad statement to make.

Knowing code at 5-13 or 20 WPM (or better) certainly gives a good op a tremendous resource at his or her disposal to be used when it quite possibly might be the only mode to get through when others do not. It is also another skill that you know. While knowing the code does not make anyone a good or bad op, it makes the good ones better and more valuable than the ones who do not.

Communications using CW and the code can be done with very simple equipment and on flea power. You do not need a computer or a reader or a rigblaster interface. Digital modes are quite a bit more complex to get going and carries much more hardware infrastructure overhead than a simple but capable CW setup does.

I find it interesting that the FCC seems to be wrangling over the code issue. If they were going to drop the requirement one would think that it would have been already a done deal. Other countries dropped it almost immediately. Could it be that it might not happen?

CW doesn't necessarily make a good op. #But more importantly, a good op doesn't necessarily make a good ham. #A good example would be some of these 20 WPM Extras that look down upon no-code people as lower than snail poop. #These people do nothing to further ham radio, nor do they meet the requirements of being a ham, despite having a license, in my opinion.

I don't think the FCC is wrangling with the CW issue at all. #Ham radio issues just aren't that high on their priority list like it used they used to be.

[ka3fad]

I was just wondering , when they elliminate the code requirement for those who cant get it are they also going to lessen the technical requirements for those who cant get it http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[KI6ADA]

Ok, I am still learning CW and I am scheduled for my VE session on April 29th. Dayton is in the middle of May. I plan on having my HF approval before Dayton. Why would the FCC say that they are not going to make an anouncement at Dayton? It sounds like to me they are going to announce a new band plan. I am for Tech plus being able to have access to all CW band assignments. The reason is that would motivate the Tech plus to upgrade to General and Extra for all phone and digital privelages on all HF bands. Have a great day and look for me on HF in May. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (kb1sf @ Feb. 19 2006,14:19)]Requiring proficiency in the Morse code in order to obtain a Ham Radio license is much like having to demonstrate how to shoe a horse in order to get a driver’s license.

73,

Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF
That analogy is worse than the physician one earlier!

[WD8PCU]

Looking at the Code Requirement situation I see it as this.

I have been in Ham radio for nearly half a century .
What I see that is the real concern for me is NOT
so much the CW topic. Instead what I have carefully
been observing is the ABSCENCE of INCENTIVE to
care if anyone really is RETAINING the HAM RADIO
SPIRIT ? In short why memorize your written test
just to get your license? Is it not better for ones soul
to feel happy because you understand what it was that
you studied that allowed you to demonstrate your ability
to digest some knowledge that you enjoyed?
What I see is a far more disheartening thing happening here in that there is not the desire to do the experimenting
with even the simple basic circuitry. Yes I do operate fancy
modern equipment. However on the other hand I have old
equipment also. I have Homebrew Stuff as well.
Now if and when the Code is Eliminated what I am concerned about is will we still be as HAMS still interested
in the Hobby and playing around with the Basic Circuits
every so often ? Or will someone come along and decide that there is NO NEED to have any more knowledge of
BASIC ELECTRONICS, simply because todays stuff is so
complicated and high tech.
I am nothing special and I am certainly not saying that we
do this or that. What I am saying is Ham Radio is a beautiful Hobby ESPECIALLY when you can put together a
basic circuit and monitor its Voltage and Current and Signal
path. Let us all be thankful that we have this knowledge of
Electronic Circuitry and that we are able to be privileged to enjoy it and to use it.

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (ka3fad @ Feb. 19 2006,20:19)]I was just wondering , when they elliminate the code requirement for those who cant get it are they also going to lessen the technical requirements for those who cant get it http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
Of course.

[K4JF]

Quote[/b] (w0pee @ Feb. 18 2006,13:30)]Life won't be the same if they eliminate CW.

Hey, wait a minute -- they aren't eliminating it. #I can still use CW on the air.

OK then. #http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
For the time being.

Frankly, I really doubt that NCI will quietly fold their tents and slink away. My guess is that they will continue to live up to their name.

[N7YA]

This is for the newer folks, so OT's...bear with me. forgive me if im saying stuff you already know...it goes to show what can change in a few short years.

I took my test in 1983, im still a newbie in many OT's minds, but thats ok. my first license class was tech...just a tech. i had the option to bypass the novice if i could do it.

The privleges i was afforded at the time were CW only on HF, 4 bands...80, 40, 15 and 10. and all access on 6m and up.

At that time, i think there were more DXers and HF users among the ranks...and the "6 and up" crowd was a more specialized group. if you were a tech or novice and wanted to join the rest of your buddies or elmers on HF...particularly on SSB, you needed to upgrade. in doing so, you were rewarded with more frequencies to use and higher power too.

Now, everyone KNEW 20 was the best DX band worldwide (ahem ahem...sorry, had to cough there), and if you wanted to join the big boys and start posting numbers on the sacred DXCC tally, you needed to upgrade to at least general.

Wow!! that sounded great, i always wanted to DX like the rest...so in 84, i upgraded. i was working all sorts of countries, on SSB and CW...any band i wanted. it was great...using simple human psychology, of course i wanted more!! I wanted to talk to that guy down on 14.180...after a few years, i upgraded again...THEN...i wanted to join the elite!!
45 minutes after passing my advanced, i passed my extra...this was 10 years ago. i was off the air for 10 years before that, mind you...things had changed in the short time i was away.

These days, as everything does, the basic structure of ham radio has shifted a bit....the "6 and up" crowd is more common than ever and the DXer is a special group. needs change, peoples interests change, and yet, some people dont want change because they fear the unfamiliar...others truly think the end will come. and this is felt on both sides of the issue.

Incentive upgrading then, and more strongly in the years before i became a ham, was the norm. technology was at its appropriate place as were the publics (and the hobby's) interests. you want to work 20? upgrade! you want 2 kilowatts? upgrade! (it was 2 kw back then...more than was needed). as most hobbies, this one is market driven from a supply standpoint, and passion driven from a member standpoint...the 2 dont always mix.

Also, this is an old hobby. one with 'forefathers' who pioneered the way. these men and women were the deep inspiration for many of the OT's who have gone before us...and a few who are still here. many older folks see the world change to something THEY would'nt have changed it into and resign into the only defense they have left...complaining, and many younger folks tend to not appreciate tried and proven methods that only years of experience can provide, therefore, passing up golden opportunities to learn from the older folks.

In looking at the bigger picture that makes the most sense to me, it seems that technology is truly taking off faster than ever, and ham radio is trying to adjust to this change...it is a hobby of both technology and tradition, sometimes awkward bedfellows. we then arrive at the impasse we have here.

Code testing will go away, code will not...technology dictates its demise in the testing realm, tradition dictates its strong standing...as does its reliability...to remain as a viable mode for us all to use if we wish.

Truth is, not as many folks coming into the hobby have the big, juicy carrot of 20 meter DXing dangled in thier face these days...not nearly as much as ISS qso's or many of the other newer modes that can challenge them....just like the idea of building a spark xmtr did for our forebearers.
The testing is becoming less technical, the people coming in are far more likely to become MORE technical as they move deeper into the hobby. NCT is nothing more than a doorway to these people.

If they lose interest and leave the hobby, it will likely be from a cold welcome than a missing code element.

As for me, i stayed on HF, still play with old keys and make DX qsos...even got an all time new one today!! still use paper logs and still have a lot of fun doing all this...i dont own any VHF gear, and im a dummy when it comes to keplerian data.
Im an extra now, and i would like to upgrade to tech so i can play with all the new people on the satellites...speaking of which, i made the offer. if any newbies want to qso on cw, i am usually on 7120 or 3720 at night, and higher up in in the daytime, when i have time. i hang out with a group of cw ops there who are slower than most...i put away the bug and try to drum up new blood with an old straight key. come look for me. or anyone calling CQ SKCC, any one of us will be happy to qso with you at YOUR speed...QRS is welcome there. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Longwinded, i know...but thanks for reading. im sure ham radio will be fine, even with all of the new things happening. take care all, i hope to work you on whatever mode you happen to be on.

73...Adam, N7YA

[K3DAV]

Quote[/b] (kc2idm @ Feb. 18 2006,14:02)]Iv worked very hard to pass the code test. leave the current license classes alone. #If anyone wants to advance to other privliges they should have to work like I did. #dont give people privliges they havent earned.
When I was 10 years old, I had to walk 10 miles to school in a blizzard, so should everyone else.

I didn't have a calculator to help with my homework. I had to use my head, so should everyone else.

I had to start driving with a 1955 Buick, so should everyone else.

I had to go to a movie theater to see a movie, so should everyone else.

I had to watch a black and white TV for years before we got a color set, so should everyone else.

I had to go out to the outhouse to do my business, so should everyone else.......

YES!! It really does sound stupid, doesn't it? In every country that has dropped the CW requirement, things are running just as smoothly as they always did. Times change. Change with them or stay way behind in your little corner.

It has been 2 years now, and I can't believe after all of this time, the babies are still crying over milk that hasn't even spilled. Move on already.

[KC9GUZ]

Quote[/b] (KC9HWJ @ Feb. 18 2006,19:17)]Quote[/b] ]the way i look at this is, if it gets more people involed in the hobbie its for the best.

I agree. Have you heard some of those "old timers" NOT wanting anyone on the HF bands. Have you ever listened to some of those guys on HF telling people that 'THIS #IS MY FREQ'? It's pathetic. I'm a no code tech running all vhf and uhf. I'm not going anywhere...staying right here next to echolink and my repeaters.
Have a nice day!
Yeah i hear it all the time on 80 meters and other freqs.
Ive actually heard some older gentlemen say they would rather see the FCC kill off amateur radio in the USA than drop the code test for HF. Now thats narrow minded!
As for VHF/UHF its ok but repeaters, simplex, echolink and linux are not really for me. Thats why im studying the code to take the test, get my General, and be done with it and go on and enjoy HF.

[KC9GUZ]

Quote[/b] (kg4dnb @ Feb. 19 2006,10:27)]it to be a great thing getting more OP's to work on the bands.
Hmm I know a few hams here in my area that are older Extras, Advances, and Generals that say this. They would like to see more people get their lisenses and get on the air even if that means dropping the code test. At first they were against the idea now they see it another way....

[AH6OK]

whatever

[N7YA]

Quote[/b] (AH6OK @ Feb. 20 2006,00:38)]whatever
Pretty much...

[n4qa]

Know code.

That is all.

[w0vu]

Quote[/b] (K1MVP @ Feb. 18 2006,17:45)]Quote[/b] (kb1sf @ Feb. 19 2006,14:19)]Requiring proficiency in the Morse code in order to obtain a Ham Radio license is much like having to demonstrate how to shoe a horse in order to get a driver’s license.

73,

Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF
Ah,--more "words of wisdom" from Canada.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # #73, K1MVP
SF can say that, he can slip down below the US phone band to work SSB, When the MULITUDE arrives!!!!!!!

[KB1SF]

Quote[/b] (K1MVP @ Feb. 19 2006,16:45)]Quote[/b] (kb1sf @ Feb. 19 2006,14:19)]Requiring proficiency in the Morse code in order to obtain a Ham Radio license is much like having to demonstrate how to shoe a horse in order to get a driver’s license.

73,

Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF
Ah,--more "words of wisdom" from Canada.

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # #73, K1MVP
Many thanks for the complement!

I thought seriously about elaborating further on this subject, but then I remembered that sometimes it is far better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

73,

Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF

[k5okc]

Quote[/b] (kc2idm @ Feb. 18 2006,07:02)]Iv worked very hard to pass the code test. leave the current license classes alone. #If anyone wants to advance to other privliges they should have to work like I did. #dont give people privliges they havent earned.
That's the argument for stagnation. Just because we had to do it, doesn't make it the only way to run billions of dollars in spectrum.

I didn't work hard for any of my amateur radio licenses. It's just a hobby, and it was fun. I'm open to massive changes to the rules, based on this century, and not the last.

[k5okc]

Quote[/b] (k4klb @ Feb. 18 2006,16:28)]teach a few Techs CW. Just think of the impact that would have on the world
OK, I've thought about it, then laughed my ass off.

[k5okc]

Quote[/b] (n4sva @ Feb. 19 2006,02:04)]I say we lower the requirements for physicians. God knows we have a shortage of them.
If we forced physicians to learn CW, would that make them better doctors?

If we forced ham radio operators to learn how to amputate limbs, would that make them better communicators?

[n1uq]

Quote[/b] (KD5NCO @ Feb. 19 2006,06:28)]PE1RDW

Ended with this thought demonstrating a great attitude;

"Do I feel wronged that they get handed all these extentions? no not realy because it gives me more felow hams to experiment with."

I like to think that some day many of the CW Morse Code lovers will stop the "I had to so you must also" or "you are not a REAL ham unless you know code". I am sick of the reference to lazy, stupid, dumbed down and other generalizations that disrespect many Licensed Amateur Radio Ops.

I sincerely hope that some day they have an epiphany and realize that CW can stand on it's own for many many decades well into the 22nd century, perhaps forever. (well at least as long as the ARS exists)

CW and Morse Code works every where every time, CW and Morse Code are a tradition, CW is easy and can be done home brew for less the $20.00, CW Morse Code is on the moon, satellites, and many beacons, Morse Code on CW helps bridge the language barrier, Morse Code on CW is nostalgic, and Morse Code via CW is fun..... sell those facts OM!

WOW! And I am staunchly anti code test....hummmm go figure
What more can I say than I agree with Sarge.

[wa4dou]

The issue was never " I had to do it so you should have to do it also" , no matter who ever advanced that arguement.
The real heart, soul and mind of the issue is that unlike all the past generations who came before, this one decided they didn't want to do it. A lot of us from past generations found ourselves uninterested in morse code. Newcomers just don't understand or appreciate why its valuable.
In taking such an attitude, they alienated many of the OT's. Therefore many of the OT's took the attitude that since many of the newcomers are "know it alls", they can fend for themselves.
It was the "I don't want to do it" crowd that started the whole issue and it was a non issue for many years before they showed up. There may have been mild issues of contention within the amateur ranks prior but the "I don't want to do it" crowd brought real division to the ranks. The cohesion within amateur radio is long gone and its not comming back. Was it worth it to populate the bands with many who never had any interest in amateur radio in the first place? I don't think so nor did I back when hams started "recruiting".

[wa4dou]

Keith, I suspect there is no doubt in many minds.

[W2JLW]

I know of two "CB" operators that have no interest in ham radio and went and got their tech license.

That's all well and good as I am the one responsible for recruiting them. I thought I could get them interested in the thing's we do and what Amateur radio is all about.

The sad thing is they crash coursed and studied the book and memorized the question's and answer's and passed their test but they have no idea what they studied.

Both of these guy's have Kenwood HF rig's they use on CB. I congratulated them on passing their test. I then told them to get their General class Lic. so they can get on the phone potion of the 10, 20, 40, meter portion of the band and really use those HF rig's they have. They both told me they are not sure where those bands are and wasn't sure if their radio's had them bands!! My jaw dropped!! HUH!!

OMG! I said, Didn't you pay attention to what you studied? The answer I got was "All we did was memorize the question's and answer's". They admitted they have no idea what anything meant. Beside's, the only reason we got our license is so we can show our neighbors we have a license to operate radio and stop complaining about TVI and also to show people that were not dumb and we could do it. My answer to that was "ANYONE" can memorize the question's and answer's if it's given to them. How anout learning the answer's by studying the question's?

They hear they might drop the code for the General and are now waiting for them to do so. They will then do the same thing to get the General class License.

I don't know about you folk's, but I think this is a sad time for Amateur Radio. It's way to easy to give a license to someone that really doesn't know anything about it and don't really care to. In this case it's being used as a tool to flash at the neighbor's and tell the boy's their Ham's.

I was sandbagging one night and heard one of these guy's say. "You know, they better drop the code and make it easer to get a license if they are so worried about losing any of their precious frequency's." (That was said sarcastically) Boy that burned me up.

Please keep the code. It only show's that people that "really" have an interest in ham radio will go the extra effort to get their ticket. 5 WPM is not a big deal. It's just right to make someone put in a little effort and actually earn the respect for which the license stand's for. Not just crash coursing question memorizing in two week's. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[wa4gch]

Lets see ....

NO-CODES have made a mess out of 75 meters ..... WRONG ...

Well then why is it a mess .... it must be BECAUSE of code ....

Drop the code and HAM radio will get better ........

Makes sence to me ! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[W9WHE]

IF arrl gets its way, ham radio will get another "dumming down". We will be one step closer to CB. I think arrl is eyeing all those CB ops and licking its chops over all that potental $$$$$ from the sale of books and memberships! Just think about all those CBers that are very excited over the prospect of running 1,500 watts PLUS their "power microphone", you can bet arrl will be the chief benificiary.

ROGER that............BEEP.

W9WHE
Proud to have CANCELLED my arrl membership!

[k5okc]

Quote[/b] (W2JLW @ Feb. 20 2006,03:21)]Please keep the code. It only show's that people that "really" have an interest in ham radio will go the extra effort to get their ticket.
One way to sell this idea, is to require bi-annual sending and receiving tests. Say $2000 for each testing session, which would be conducted by congressional appointees, who would contribute the money to the congressman's re-election campaign.

Those who don't pass, can't vote or re-test for two years.

[n0doz]

Does anyone ever have anything DIFFERENT to say on this subject? Jeez, every time one of these code/no-code threads come up, the same blah-blah-blah gets written. I haven't seen an original thought on this stuff in YEARS, and that includes my own posts. No one cares any more, folks. The war's already over.

[kb1ilu]

Ok, This is really going to irratate me. #Why the heck can't the FCC the IARU And the ITU just stay with the original ideas that they had what has it been now, 6 years, i passed my code, i don't care what they do but all this confusion is what makes this rulemaking run through all our heads, i say don't worry about it, and if they screw up they screw it up. #really look at it like this the FCC is not about making US happy its about making THEM happy.. so 73's for now... De KB1ILU

[KB1SF]

Quote[/b] (wa4dou @ Feb. 20 2006,08:19)]Keith, I suspect there is no doubt in many minds.
Nor in mine.

And that's probably because it's far more inviting for some people to shoot the messenger rather than squarely face a reality they simply cannot accept.

Anyway, I, too, have said my piece. #It would appear the FCC is proceeding apace to largely de-regulate the hobby to the point that, “real soon now” all our Morse testing, sub-band-based incentive licensing and regulation by bandwidth blather will be quite moot.

73,

Keith
KB1SF / VA3KSF

[wa4dou]

Go soak your head Keith

[KB1SF]

Quote[/b] (wa4dou @ Feb. 20 2006,09:38)]Go soak your head Keith
Many thanks for your kind words!

I rest my case.

73,

Keith

[N3KIP]

Quote[/b] (N0CTO @ Feb. 19 2006,07:00)]I guess I need to hurry up and learn code before the requirement goes away - and then never use it.

I would hate to be shunned by all the know-coders for the rest of my life while I'm TALKING on HF.
So true. I passed 20 wpm in 1993, and have never connected a key to a rig. Never intended to from day one.

[KB3HCG]

I don't care one way or the other if the FCC drops it, I just know if the FCC drops it I will not go on the radio for a while ( 3 to 6 months ), while the people that HATE us no coders get their anger problems worked out.

I right now avoid one ham on the air because he always gets on my case about code, and for a while ( 6 months ) I did not go on the air because of him.

I did once consider getting CW, but the problem with it at the time was I was only studying it because I felt force to by other hams, I hated it, I was not going to use it, I was not going to go for a General or higher license, I did not what it, I had no use for it, I was not going to us it, heck I was not going to upgrade. So I stopped studying it, and that is when that one ham I talked about above started to make my time on the air unpleasant, now if he is on the freq, I will not go on, and if he gets on when I am on, I will sign off.

[KC2PBJ]

Having just returned to amateur radio after half a lifetime of absense, the vitriol that is being spread around about cw is at the heart of why I left all those years ago. Artificial, self-serving, differences among the members of the fraternity is what has caused the decline of interest. True, pride of accomplishment in achieving Extra or the old Advanced licenses is a valid goal in addition to the minimal extra band privileges. Egoistic slamming of neophytes and tales of walking uphill to school in a blizzard (in June and both ways) only make your chest hurt by all that beating of the sternum. I, for one, am actively practicing my code ( 19 wpm and counting) until I can set a date to achieve my /AG. For the Old Timers, and Old, Old Timers, get off your ego-based soap box and become a positive image elmer for the majority of newcomers who really do want to learn. Wear your thousand word a minute extra patch and lose the snotty attitude and our Amateur Radio Service may yet achieve a restoration of growth. I've been fortunate. I have several elmers who help my skills and that's why I'm back and learning each day. This "Less Filling - Tastes Great" argument has gone nowhere, is going nowhere,and will only hurt us further. Climb down off Mount Olympus, remove the laurel leaves from your eyes and make a difference in the life of young operators who are the future when us old farts become silent keys. An interest and use of CW requires practice and guidance. When you're done praising yourself, step up to the plate and lend a hand.

[k5co]

Well, we did it! We put a transmitter in a rusty '52 Chevy and pushed it off of the edge of the Rio Grand Canyon near Taos. It transmitted, in Morse code, the barometric pressure and temperature all the way down. We used 11 meters, because we figured more CB'ers were likely to know code than today's hams.
Oddly, the car took two minutes to reach the bottom. Chevy's of that vintage never were very fast, but we are still looking for the reasons for the lost time. Our imbedded physics student thinks it may be the result of using 11 meters. I have my doubts. Those folks are slow, but..........
But what the hey! Another successful Ham radio experiment to show other nations the way! Let's see the Russians top that one.

[Ka0sab]

Well here goes,
Just like alot of others I went to Kansas City FCC office to take my Tech and Gen.test,, We had to then !
With the FCC standing over us,, Wow
I passed the 13 WPM and then studyed for my 20 WPM,,
Is all this impressing you ?? HA HA
We had to study and do all the math and theroy !
I am glad too have done it all.

Now from here foreward I don't care if they do away with the code, as long as they can add the people to inforce the rules and reg..
I would like to see them keep it for the extra class Lic. for the simple reason that if we ever have a war where nukes are used and it knocks out the Computers, then at leased we will have some way of helping when the phone bands can't get through.
I joke with my Grandson and Grand daughter that when I get done teaching them code, they will have a way to talk with very little of the ham radio operators able to know what it is they are talking about., there own private language.
This is not meant to upset anyone, just my own insight.

So do away with it for all code but Extra Class and leave the CW portion of the bands alone and all will be well!! ;) ;) And most of all have the people to in force the rules.
I hear alot of operators from AZ and CA. that are on the air on 40 meters that when you call them the first thing they say is,, so what do you want a signal report or are you one of those sh--ty people that is going to tell me I can't talk anyway I want on the radio. ( Not saying it is just CA- AZ.)
As long as we keep it clean and help each other and the public, we will maintain a good image with people world wide as HAMS not cber's and a people they can count on for help, regardless of the code or no code.
So let's mend the fence's let them do away with the code for the gen. and if anything bring back the advanced class as a 5 WPM code with the Gen test and then the extra test as just the test.

Just my view and not meant to upset anyone, just maybe a way to get along. http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[k5okc]

Quote[/b] (k5co @ Feb. 20 2006,05:19)]We used 11 meters, because we figured more CB'ers were likely to know code than today's hams.
Whenever morse code comes up, two things are sure to follow: 1) CB radio, 2) Nazi Germany.

When this occurs, you may consider the conversation finished.

[W2JLW]

To the no code radio operators. I think I can speak for the majority when I say I have no problem with no code operators. It's not the fact I had to learn the code to get my novice and you don't/didn't.

The whole point is (Maybe because I consider myself old school) Amateur Radio has a certain prestige to it and it used to be before you got your license you "had" to know "something" about it besides just keying the mike and talking. (read my previous post about these two guy's that got their license and have no idea their radio could transmit or where to find 40,20,15 meters and admit they have no idea what they read)

The code part weather you use it or not (in my mind) is just to keep it honest. If someone want's to have these privileges go the extra mile and earn it. I feel anyone that does, has earned the right to have a license. (Let's face it 5 WPM code take's little effort to learn, but it's something you "have" to learn and study a little for. Not just memorize Q's & A's)

This studying for two week's just memorizing question's and answer's is not earning the privileges. Might as well just go back to what I did to get my CB license in 1968. Just fill out a forum and send it in. Because that's all this is.

For those no coder's that have a license and know something about the hobby and truly enjoy the hobby, I for sure welcome you and think no less of you. The point is to weed out the folk's that don't give a crap about the hobby and just hand them 1500 watt's of power. These guy's have no idea how to stop/advoid simple TVI problems with their CB set's..

Might be beating a dead bush here. But this is how this Ham operator feel's.

Very 73
Lenny
W2JLW

[K3DAV]

Quote[/b] (wa4dou @ Feb. 20 2006,10:16)]The issue was never " I had to do it so you should have to do it also" , no matter who ever advanced that arguement.
The real heart, soul and mind of the issue is that unlike all the past generations who came before, this one decided they didn't want to do it. A lot of us from past generations found ourselves uninterested in morse code. Newcomers just don't understand or appreciate why its valuable.
In taking such an attitude, they alienated many of the OT's. Therefore many of the OT's took the attitude that since many of the newcomers are "know it alls", they can fend for themselves.
It was the "I don't want to do it" crowd that started the whole issue and it was a non issue for many years before they showed up. There may have been mild issues of contention within the amateur ranks prior but the "I don't want to do it" crowd brought real division to the ranks. The cohesion within amateur radio is long gone and its not comming back. Was it worth it to populate the bands with many who never had any interest in amateur radio in the first place? I don't think so nor did I back when hams started "recruiting".

I disagree with some of that. #Back in the old days, CW was necessary for many communications. #But with today's technology, today's hams see CW as a mode of transmission. #You say we just don't want to do it. #Well even if that is true, it is just a choice of mode that we making. #If you don't like SSB, then you don't have to use it. #If you don't like AM, then you don't have to use that either. #But you didn't have to prove to the FCC at your license exam that you knew how to use SSB by actually tuning in an SSB transmission perfectly.

CW may have been necessary at one time, but it isn't now. #Now it is one of your many choices of TX mode to use. #If the CW test was any kind of filter to keep out the unwanted, then 80 meters wouldn't be the second CB band dump it is now.

Dozens of countries have dropped the CW requirement 2 years ago now. #None of them are having any problems with it. #The new no-code guys on HF are welcomed by the old timers, and everyone goes about their business like they always have. #Their skies haven't fallen. #Their bands are not overrun with CB'ers. #They don't consider themselves as "Dumbed-down". #If anything, they are having a ball with our wonderful hobby. As it was intended to be. How come they can handle it and we can't?

Only in America could we make such a huge problem with such a simple change. #Too many egos getting bruised, Too many people wanting to keep the HF bands all to themselves. #Too many people not wanting to realize that we have moved into a new century. And YES!! Most of the arguments are, "I had to do it, so should you". #That is exactly what it comes down to, because all of the other arguments have been proven 100% wrong several times over around the world. The only legitimate argument left is, "My ego is bruised and I want it to stay the way I want it to be".

America used to lead by example. #Now we follow by our egos when it suits us. #Are we going to let the rest of the world show us how to get along with change and be friends, or must we continue this pathetic petty argument, and make Americans look like the idiots we are proving ourselves to be? #Come on guys. #It's a new century, and we are all in this hobby for the same reason. #To experiment, have fun and talk to each other. #How abaout it?

[M1NTO]

http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I REALLY DO HOPE YOU GET A RELAXATION IN YOUR LICENCE REQUIREMENTS. #HERE IN UK THE NEW RULES WILL COME INTO EFFECT ALLOWING US TO HAVE A LICENCE FOR LIFE IN ADDITION TO THE ALREADY 'NO MORSE REQUIRED'. #DON'T BE AFRAID OF THE MORSE SLIPPING AWAY. #MANY HAMS IN UK STILL WANT TO USE IT AND LONG MAY THAT BE THE CASE. #AS THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT FOR CW, THIS HAS ENCOURAGED MORE TO ASK CLUBS AND SOCIETIES TO GIVE INSTRUCTION AND PROFICIENCY CERTIFICATES.

KEEP SMILING AND GET THE FCC TO GO THE SAME WAY.

M1 NTO #HUGH (MANCHSTER UK)

[wa4dou]

David, I don't think ego plays a part in it at all. The arguement you advanced works equally well as regards the technical side of amateur radio and the pages of this reflector and another reveal a growing faction that embraces that viewpoint. Its all part of an across the board standards reduction going on throughout society. The road to hell is said to be paved with good intentions. This is but one of many steps.

[K1MVP]

Quote[/b] (M1NTO @ Feb. 20 2006,10:37)]http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I REALLY DO HOPE YOU GET A RELAXATION IN YOUR LICENCE REQUIREMENTS. #HERE IN UK THE NEW RULES WILL COME INTO EFFECT ALLOWING US TO HAVE A LICENCE FOR LIFE IN ADDITION TO THE ALREADY 'NO MORSE REQUIRED'. #DON'T BE AFRAID OF THE MORSE SLIPPING AWAY. #MANY HAMS IN UK STILL WANT TO USE IT AND LONG MAY THAT BE THE CASE. #AS THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT FOR CW, THIS HAS ENCOURAGED MORE TO ASK CLUBS AND SOCIETIES TO GIVE INSTRUCTION AND PROFICIENCY CERTIFICATES.

KEEP SMILING AND GET THE FCC TO GO THE SAME WAY.

M1 NTO #HUGH (MANCHSTER UK)
Yep, the UK IS "leading" the race and on the "cutting
edge" of the "new" ham radio system for the twenty
first century.--If you believe that, I will sell you the
brooklyn bridge, and throw in "oceanfront" property in
Arizona.

As far as doing away with cw and encouraging more
clubs,--yep,--there will be more clubs,--like CB clubs
of years ago, with pizza and soda, and a "talker of
the month", who talks about how to solder a PL-259
onto a piece of coaxial cable.

And of course,--there will be "certificates of completion"
given out after successfully soldering a PL-259 onto
a piece of coaxial cable,(issued by the ARRL) of course.

And last but not least,--People will "go away smiling"
after "a job well done".

# # # # # # # # # # # # # 73, K1MVP

Gee,--I wonder if the British during WW II were able
to issue "diplomas" in their "tech" schools for completing
such a task?
No wonder the British needed our #help to win the war
against Germany.

[k5okc]

Quote[/b] (K1MVP @ Feb. 20 2006,06:23)]No wonder the British needed our #help to win the war
against Germany.
Good help is always hard to find. #I still wonder what the "exit strategy" is for our troops in Germany though...

[W9WHE]

Why "dumb down" the standards and drop the code?
Follow the money, bubba.

If we drop the code and "dumb down" the standards, who profits? arrl will swim in mountains of money $$$ from a flood of new CBer memberships and sales of over-priced, recycled publications. Its that simple. ARRL WINS, YOU LOOSE.

Roger that.........BEEP!
W9WHE

[W9WHE]

No coders have nearly succeeded in convincing FCC to give them HF priveleges for nothing. Whine long enough, and assert the "entitlement" mentality enough times, and you get what you want.

WELL, I WANT MY OWN FREQUENCY. So, here goes, I'm going to use the no-coder technique:


WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA.......I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA.......I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA


AND I'M NOT GOING TO STOP UNTIL I GET IT:

WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA.......I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA.......I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA

W9WHE

[kc0pdf]

Quote[/b] (W9WHE @ Feb. 20 2006,12:21)]WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA.......I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA.......I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA


AND I'M NOT GOING TO STOP UNTIL I GET IT:

WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA.......I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA.......I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA

W9WHE
WOW



So it sure sounds to me like you -
WANT YOUR OWN FREQUENCY
AND YOU NOT GOING TO STOP UNTIL YOU GET IT!

[k5okc]

Quote[/b] (W9WHE @ Feb. 20 2006,07:21)]No coders have nearly succeeded in convincing FCC to give them HF priveleges for nothing. Whine long enough, and assert the "entitlement" mentality enough times, and you get what you want.

WELL, I WANT MY OWN FREQUENCY. So, here goes, I'm going to use the no-coder technique:


WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA.......I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA.......I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA


AND I'M NOT GOING TO STOP UNTIL I GET IT:

WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA.......I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA.......I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA
WHAAAAA...... I want my own frequency....WHAAAAAA

W9WHE
Yea, I listened for 30 minutes on a 40 metre frequency to find if it was being used normally, during the 30 minutes I was thinking of having a digital voice QSO in the following days. It was so dead, I thought the band had died.

I called CQ on digital voice. Immediately an analog station in Texas came-on frequency and said "did you hear that Bill?" Then Bill came on and said "I sure did, sounds like some kind of data. Hey get that crap off this frequency."

I went to the analog mode, and said "This is K5OKC, the frequency is in use, please QSY." Bill came back immediately and said "yea, the frequency is in use, and you need to get off of it, as we have been her for 12 years." I said "This is K5OKC, and you need to identify your station before I can continue to communicate with you." Nothing heard so I went back to digital mode and called CQ again.

The two guys then started jamming the frequency and pretending to have a conversation. After about two hours (of complaining about somebody using their frequency) they identified themselves. At that point I stopped recording my digital file and put it and a letter to the FCC enforcement division on a CD and sent it in.

These guys are code-qualified, so in my book, idiots are idiots no matter how tough you try to make it to keep out the grade school drop-outs.

[n3cdx]

N7WSB VERY GOOD POINT!!!!! well in my area there are alot of hams waiting to see what happenes with this topic and the fcc but lets get real....everybody has to make money.in order to make money you have to earn it....well...same thing this is the way i feel i am just a tech and proud of it i do not want the other bands if i do not earn them its just not right to give someone something if they didnt earn but what the hell if the fcc wants to give it to me i will use it..hope to hear you all on 80 meter band soon....:D

[k4eez]

Hi
Can someone please help me out here???

The general class ham operators (To This Day) Who have already passed the 5.w.p.m code (weather it be 13 or 5 its a done deal) If the Fcc was to drop the current code, then what would that mean for us generals, who have already passed the Cw requirement and wish to upgrade our licenses???

Would have to take the code again or would we just simply Study and take the Advanced Written test?

My question is, what about us, to this day, who have already passed the CW requirement What will happen to us?

K4EEZ http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (k9ekg @ Feb. 18 2006,19:16)]Quote[/b] (N3TTN @ Feb. 18 2006,18:54)]Quote[/b] ]Always there to reciprocate.

Man, I almost broke a rib laughing so hard when I saw that one, and the description is very appropriate for the chuckster....nice work ekg!!
All done with good humor.
Call: K9EKG Class: Technician
Call: N3TTN Class: Technician

All done with good humor! http://www.qrz.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (K3DAV @ Feb. 19 2006,22:10)]Quote[/b] (kc2idm @ Feb. 18 2006,14:02)]Iv worked very hard to pass the code test. leave the current license classes alone. If anyone wants to advance to other privliges they should have to work like I did. dont give people privliges they havent earned.
When I was 10 years old, I had to walk 10 miles to school in a blizzard, so should everyone else.

I didn't have a calculator to help with my homework. I had to use my head, so should everyone else.

I had to start driving with a 1955 Buick, so should everyone else.

I had to go to a movie theater to see a movie, so should everyone else.

I had to watch a black and white TV for years before we got a color set, so should everyone else.

I had to go out to the outhouse to do my business, so should everyone else.......

YES!! It really does sound stupid, doesn't it? In every country that has dropped the CW requirement, things are running just as smoothly as they always did. Times change. Change with them or stay way behind in your little corner.

It has been 2 years now, and I can't believe after all of this time, the babies are still crying over milk that hasn't even spilled. Move on already.
Call: K3DAV Class: Technician

Had you studied telegraphy when the discussion began, you'd be on HF by now.

[ky5u]

Quote[/b] (n0doz @ Feb. 20 2006,09:18)]Does anyone ever have anything DIFFERENT to say on this subject? Jeez, every time one of these code/no-code threads come up, the same blah-blah-blah gets written. I haven't seen an original thought on this stuff in YEARS, and that includes my own posts. No one cares any more, folks. The war's already over.
Call: N0DOZ Class: Technician

....and if you think you won, the joke is on you. You will never find the respect you're looking for as a gift.